Bill wrote:
A switching regulator without the steep (and noisy) transients of
today's switchers.
Well, don't get too giddy about how quiet the scheme is . HP
warned that if you use the same 12v (nominal) power supply for the oven
control and crystal oscillator circuits, you need to add extr
m] On Behalf Of Charles
Steinmetz
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2018 10:21 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] AM vs PM noise of signal sources
Bill wrote:
> What does the unijunction 2N2646 do in the oven controller?
For the following discussion, you need to refer to the *corrected*
s
Bill wrote:
What does the unijunction 2N2646 do in the oven controller?
For the following discussion, you need to refer to the *corrected*
schematic I mentioned in my last post. If you are looking at the HP
schematic, you will wonder how the hell it works (and it wouldn't, if HP
actually b
Charles,
What does the unijunction 2N2646 do in the oven controller?
Bill Hawkins
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Steinmetz
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2018 7:50 AM
Also, note that the HP schematics of the 10544 have some error
Hi from Florida (it is atypical cool),ly
`
Ref 1 is really only good for an insight but to use it makes no sens and the
names in ref 2 are out of order, that makes no difference.
Ulrich
In a message dated 1/8/2018 9:02:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, att...@kinali.ch
writes:
Moin
Discla
Moin
Disclaimer: I am by far not an expert in oscillators. Please correct me if
I am wrong.
I am putting my replies to a few mails together into one, as not to clutter
the mailinglist too much.
On Sat, 6 Jan 2018 19:53:20 +1300
donald collie wrote:
> So to be lowest noise, an oscillator should
Don wrote:
I`m looking at the circuit of an HP10544 oscillator - can anybody confirm,
please, if the HP transistor types 53-20, and 54-215 have commercial
equivalents?
54-215 (full HP part number 1854-0215) is the ubiquitous 2N3904.
53-20 (full HP part number 1853-0020) is 2N3702. 2N4403 is
Wien bridge and bridged T oscillators often use a thermistor [lamp] to
set the amplitude below saturation, for low distortion, but i`ve seen the
diode AGC method used.
Conversely, you could use a thermistor to set the output of a crystal or
L/C oscillator. One other method seems to be to let the
Am 07.01.2018 um 17:05 schrieb Arnold Tibus:
but I see quite often mentioned the 'Wein bridge'. (Wein in german is
'vino' or 'wine' ;-)
Not of real technical importance, but shouldn't this not be correctly
called a 'Wien bridge'?
As I know that this tricky circuit was developed by Max Wien
t; mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > On 01/06/2018 10:31 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>> > >> --
>> > >>
>> > >> Message: 2
>> > >> Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018
Hi
> On Jan 7, 2018, at 12:26 PM, jimlux wrote:
>
> On 1/7/18 8:05 AM, Arnold Tibus wrote:
>> Am 07.01.2018 um 16:33 schrieb jimlux:
>>> On 1/6/18 6:12 PM, Dana Whitlow wrote:
One point about oscillator design I've not yet seen mentioned is this: the
limiter
must not degrade the r
On 1/7/18 8:05 AM, Arnold Tibus wrote:
Am 07.01.2018 um 16:33 schrieb jimlux:
On 1/6/18 6:12 PM, Dana Whitlow wrote:
One point about oscillator design I've not yet seen mentioned is
this: the
limiter
must not degrade the resonator Q when in action. Hence, a pair of
diodes
connected in parall
You are simply correct !
Ulrich
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 7, 2018, at 11:05 AM, Arnold Tibus wrote:
>
>> Am 07.01.2018 um 16:33 schrieb jimlux:
>>> On 1/6/18 6:12 PM, Dana Whitlow wrote:
>>> One point about oscillator design I've not yet seen mentioned is this: the
>>> limiter
>>> must not
It is a Wien bridge
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 7, 2018, at 10:33 AM, jimlux wrote:
>
>> On 1/6/18 6:12 PM, Dana Whitlow wrote:
>> One point about oscillator design I've not yet seen mentioned is this: the
>> limiter
>> must not degrade the resonator Q when in action. Hence, a pair of dio
Am 07.01.2018 um 16:33 schrieb jimlux:
On 1/6/18 6:12 PM, Dana Whitlow wrote:
One point about oscillator design I've not yet seen mentioned is this:
the
limiter
must not degrade the resonator Q when in action. Hence, a pair of diodes
connected in parallel back to back, across a shunt resonator
On 1/6/18 6:12 PM, Dana Whitlow wrote:
One point about oscillator design I've not yet seen mentioned is this: the
limiter
must not degrade the resonator Q when in action. Hence, a pair of diodes
connected in parallel back to back, across a shunt resonator, would be a bad
thing to do from the per
h Gwinn wrote:
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 09:19:31 -0500
>>>> From: Bob kb8tq
>>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>>>>
>>
>
>> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Magnus Danielson <
>> mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01/06/2018 10:31 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>&
--
> > >>
> > >> Message: 2
> > >> Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 09:19:31 -0500
> > >> From: Bob kb8tq
> > >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> > >>
> > >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] AM vs PM noise of sign
seph Gwinn wrote:
> > >> --
> > >>
> > >> Message: 2
> > >> Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 09:19:31 -0500
> > >> From: Bob kb8tq
> > >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> > >>
> >> Message: 2
> >> Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 09:19:31 -0500
> >> From: Bob kb8tq
> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> >>
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] AM vs PM noise of signal sources
> >> Message-ID:
Hi
> On Jan 6, 2018, at 4:31 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 09:19:31 -0500
>> From: Bob kb8tq
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>>
>
Hi
….. except you can decide to use a “25%” design for your oscillator or you can
go with a
“50%” kind of circuit. It’s going to be a bit tough finding a crystal that is
2X higher Q ….
Rick’s papers go through a bit of just *why* you would go with the “25%”
circuit.
Bob
> On Jan 6, 2018, at
On 01/06/2018 10:31 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>> --
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 09:19:31 -0500
>> From: Bob kb8tq
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>>
>> Subject: Re: [time-n
Hi Joe,
On 01/06/2018 10:26 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Jan 2018 21:54:58 -0500, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>> May I just follow up on the assumption there. The Bessel series is the
>> theoretical [basis] for what goes on in PM and also helps to explain one
>> particular error I ha
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 09:19:31 -0500
> From: Bob kb8tq
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] AM vs PM noise of signal sources
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type:
On Fri, 05 Jan 2018 21:54:58 -0500, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
> Message: 13
> Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 01:08:45 +0100
> From: Magnus Danielson
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Cc: mag...@rubidium.se
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] AM vs PM noise of signal sources
> Message-ID:
Hi,
I think loaded Q is being used as term these days for the effective Q of
the resonator as loaded by the support amplifier.
The Leeson model only models how noise types gets created, not how a
physical design actually works.
The modified Leeson model starts to approach the actual design.
Che
Hi
The key point missing is the fact that any real oscillator must have a limiter
in the loop. Otherwise it will “create one” by going over the max output of
this or
that amplifier. To the degree that the limiter has issues (limits poorly) you
will get
AM noise.
On a practical basis, loop Q is
So to be lowest noise, an oscillator should have the highest Q resonator
possible in its feedback loop, operate in class "A" [for maximum
linearity], and utilise active amplifier device(s) that contribute the
least noise [both amplitude, or 1/f], and phase. This latter implies
operating the active
Joseph,
On 01/05/2018 09:16 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Jan 2018 12:00:01 -0500, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>> Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to
>> If I pass both a sine wave tone and a pile of audio noise through a
>> perfectly
>> linear circuit, I get no AM or PM nois
Hi Attila,
On 01/05/2018 12:27 PM, Attila Kinali wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 23:34:18 +0100
> Magnus Danielson wrote:
>
> [About AM noise being of equal power as PM noise]
>
>> Now, for actual sources this is no longer true. The AM noise can be much
>> higher, which is why it can be a real dang
Hi
It can be either. The easy example is a tone that is outside the entire band of
the noise.
If it is a “real” noise spectrum, that’s never going to be the case. There will
always be
*some* noise at the tone frequency in a real system.
Bob
> On Jan 5, 2018, at 2:49 PM, Dana Whitlow wrote:
q)
>4. HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?
> (Ulf Kylenfall)
>
>
> --
>
> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 10:56:17 -0500
> From: Bob kb8tq
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency m
But what I'm wondering, because this is important to the discussion, is the
tone at a frequency encompassed on both sides by the noise band? Or
is the tone outside the noise band?
Dana
On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 1:35 PM, Bob kb8tq wrote:
> Hi
>
> The audio (or RF) tone is summed with “baseband" n
Hi
The audio (or RF) tone is summed with “baseband" noise. 1/F noise seems
to be the flavor of the day in recent postings. The only reason to use audio
in the example is that it is really easy to demonstrate things at audio with
a sound card.
Bob
> On Jan 5, 2018, at 1:42 PM, Dana Whitlow w
Is this an audio tone, summed with audio noise whose spectrum surrounds
that of the tone?
Dana
On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 9:56 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote:
> Hi
>
> If I pass both a sine wave tone and a pile of audio noise through a
> perfectly
> linear circuit, I get no AM or PM noise sidebands on the si
Hi
If I pass both a sine wave tone and a pile of audio noise through a perfectly
linear circuit, I get no AM or PM noise sidebands on the signal. The only way
they combine is if the circuit is non-linear. There are a lot of ways to model
this non-linearity. The “old school” approach is with a po
On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 23:34:18 +0100
Magnus Danielson wrote:
[About AM noise being of equal power as PM noise]
> Now, for actual sources this is no longer true. The AM noise can be much
> higher, which is why it can be a real danger to the PM noise if there is
> a AM to PM noise conversion. One sou
Attila,
Since we talk background noise and white noise, the amplitude is the
same for AM and PM. This is part of the AM/PM lecture of NIST that I
know you have participated in at least once.
Under the assumption of low modulation index, which is fair assumption
for background noise compared to mo
Hi
Just as with PM noise, AM noise is a “that depends” sort of thing. The first
dependency is on your test gear. If the AM noise was well below the PM
noise, would you be able to measure it? Equally, if you are doing something
like a diode detector - can it measure AM below XXX dbc? If the dete
Hi,
I am currently looking at noise calculations that deal with AM and PM noise.
To check whether the calculations make sense, I am looking for some numbers
of the white noise floor AM and PM noise levels of signal sources.
Unfortunately, almost everyone only deals with PM noise and hardly
anyone
42 matches
Mail list logo
