Re: [time-nuts] FCC politics vs their engineers...

[Rob Kimberley]

I remember a story told to me many years ago, about a discussion between an
American Astronaut and a Russian Cosmonaut. 

It goes along something like this...

Astronaut to Cosmonaut:  " I wouldn't be happy sitting on the top of that
low technology rocket"

Cosmonaut to Astronaut: "I would rather that than sit at the top of a pile
of low bids"

Rob K



-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of J. Forster
Sent: 17 September 2013 19:19
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FCC politics vs their engineers...

"It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making
decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no
price for being wrong." - Thomas Sowell

YMMV,

-John

===



> Was it not always so?? Remember the politicians pay the bills not the 
> engineers!
> Alan
> G3NYK
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Eric Williams" 
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 7:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FCC politics vs their engineers...
>
>
>> "He tells me with some bitterness that politics triumphed over all of 
>> the objections of the engineering staff to LS and that this is not 
>> the first time that this has happened."
>>
>> That's how we ended up with Challenger and Columbia.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 6:46 AM, Michael Baker 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Time-Nutters--
>>>
>>> Jim wrote:
>>> snip
>>> > That's why the FCC granted a "conditional" waiver of the rules.  
>>> > It was politically expedient, and I would imagine that the 
>>> > engineers at the FCC thought "there's no way they'll be able to 
>>> > demonstrate no interference"
>>>
>>> Charles wrote:
>>> snip
>>> > The Commission not only thought LS would demonstrate 
>>> > non-interference, it put its thumb on the scale until the public 
>>> > outcry became too loud to ignore (the GPS interests took forever 
>>> > to wake up -- that didn't happen until all of the comment periods 
>>> > were long closed).  It just didn't matter what the staff engineers 
>>> > thought -- which is business  as usual at the FCC.
>>> --**--
>>>
>>> A friend of mine was one of the FCC lead supervisory engineers that 
>>> was involved in the LS fiasco.  He tells me that there were 
>>> technical reports, evaluation summaries and strong opinions offered 
>>> by the engineering staff that provided a number of reasons why the 
>>> LS project should be denied.  He tells me that most of these 
>>> engineering studies got buried and ignored.
>>> He tells me with some bitterness that politics triumphed over all of 
>>> the objections of the engineering staff to LS and that this is not 
>>> the first time that this has happened.
>>>
>>> Mike Baker
>>> Gainesville, FL  USA
>>>
>>> __**_
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to 
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** 
>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/list
>>> info/time-nuts>
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>
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Re: [time-nuts] FCC politics vs their engineers...

[J. Forster]

"It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making
decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay
no price for being wrong." - Thomas Sowell

YMMV,

-John

===



> Was it not always so?? Remember the politicians pay the bills not the
> engineers!
> Alan
> G3NYK
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Eric Williams" 
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 7:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FCC politics vs their engineers...
>
>
>> "He tells me with some bitterness that politics triumphed over
>> all of the objections of the engineering staff to LS and that this
>> is not the first time that this has happened."
>>
>> That's how we ended up with Challenger and Columbia.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 6:46 AM, Michael Baker 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Time-Nutters--
>>>
>>> Jim wrote:
>>> snip
>>> > That's why the FCC granted a "conditional" waiver
>>> > of the rules.  It was politically expedient, and I would
>>> > imagine that the engineers at the FCC thought "there's
>>> > no way they'll be able to demonstrate no interference"
>>>
>>> Charles wrote:
>>> snip
>>> > The Commission not only thought LS would demonstrate
>>> > non-interference, it put its thumb on the scale until the
>>> > public outcry became too loud to ignore (the GPS interests
>>> > took forever to wake up -- that didn't happen until all of
>>> > the comment periods were long closed).  It just didn't
>>> > matter what the staff engineers thought -- which is
>>> > business  as usual at the FCC.
>>> --**--
>>>
>>> A friend of mine was one of the FCC lead supervisory engineers
>>> that was involved in the LS fiasco.  He tells me that there were
>>> technical reports, evaluation summaries and strong opinions
>>> offered by the engineering staff that provided a number of
>>> reasons why the LS project should be denied.  He tells me that
>>> most of these engineering studies got buried and ignored.
>>> He tells me with some bitterness that politics triumphed over
>>> all of the objections of the engineering staff to LS and that this
>>> is not the first time that this has happened.
>>>
>>> Mike Baker
>>> Gainesville, FL  USA
>>>
>>> __**_
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**
>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts>
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] FCC politics vs their engineers...

[Alan Melia]

Was it not always so?? Remember the politicians pay the bills not the 
engineers!

Alan
G3NYK

- Original Message - 
From: "Eric Williams" 
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 


Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FCC politics vs their engineers...



"He tells me with some bitterness that politics triumphed over
all of the objections of the engineering staff to LS and that this
is not the first time that this has happened."

That's how we ended up with Challenger and Columbia.


On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 6:46 AM, Michael Baker  
wrote:



Time-Nutters--

Jim wrote:
snip
> That's why the FCC granted a "conditional" waiver
> of the rules.  It was politically expedient, and I would
> imagine that the engineers at the FCC thought "there's
> no way they'll be able to demonstrate no interference"

Charles wrote:
snip
> The Commission not only thought LS would demonstrate
> non-interference, it put its thumb on the scale until the
> public outcry became too loud to ignore (the GPS interests
> took forever to wake up -- that didn't happen until all of
> the comment periods were long closed).  It just didn't
> matter what the staff engineers thought -- which is
> business  as usual at the FCC.
--**--

A friend of mine was one of the FCC lead supervisory engineers
that was involved in the LS fiasco.  He tells me that there were
technical reports, evaluation summaries and strong opinions
offered by the engineering staff that provided a number of
reasons why the LS project should be denied.  He tells me that
most of these engineering studies got buried and ignored.
He tells me with some bitterness that politics triumphed over
all of the objections of the engineering staff to LS and that this
is not the first time that this has happened.

Mike Baker
Gainesville, FL  USA

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Re: [time-nuts] FCC politics vs their engineers...

[Eric Williams]

"He tells me with some bitterness that politics triumphed over
all of the objections of the engineering staff to LS and that this
is not the first time that this has happened."

That's how we ended up with Challenger and Columbia.


On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 6:46 AM, Michael Baker  wrote:

> Time-Nutters--
>
> Jim wrote:
> snip
> > That's why the FCC granted a "conditional" waiver
> > of the rules.  It was politically expedient, and I would
> > imagine that the engineers at the FCC thought "there's
> > no way they'll be able to demonstrate no interference"
>
> Charles wrote:
> snip
> > The Commission not only thought LS would demonstrate
> > non-interference, it put its thumb on the scale until the
> > public outcry became too loud to ignore (the GPS interests
> > took forever to wake up -- that didn't happen until all of
> > the comment periods were long closed).  It just didn't
> > matter what the staff engineers thought -- which is
> > business  as usual at the FCC.
> --**--
>
> A friend of mine was one of the FCC lead supervisory engineers
> that was involved in the LS fiasco.  He tells me that there were
> technical reports, evaluation summaries and strong opinions
> offered by the engineering staff that provided a number of
> reasons why the LS project should be denied.  He tells me that
> most of these engineering studies got buried and ignored.
> He tells me with some bitterness that politics triumphed over
> all of the objections of the engineering staff to LS and that this
> is not the first time that this has happened.
>
> Mike Baker
> Gainesville, FL  USA
>
> __**_
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] FCC politics vs their engineers...

[Michael Baker]

Time-Nutters--

Jim wrote:
snip
> That's why the FCC granted a "conditional" waiver
> of the rules.  It was politically expedient, and I would
> imagine that the engineers at the FCC thought "there's
> no way they'll be able to demonstrate no interference"

Charles wrote:
snip
> The Commission not only thought LS would demonstrate
> non-interference, it put its thumb on the scale until the
> public outcry became too loud to ignore (the GPS interests
> took forever to wake up -- that didn't happen until all of
> the comment periods were long closed).  It just didn't
> matter what the staff engineers thought -- which is
> business  as usual at the FCC.


A friend of mine was one of the FCC lead supervisory engineers
that was involved in the LS fiasco.  He tells me that there were
technical reports, evaluation summaries and strong opinions
offered by the engineering staff that provided a number of
reasons why the LS project should be denied.  He tells me that
most of these engineering studies got buried and ignored.
He tells me with some bitterness that politics triumphed over
all of the objections of the engineering staff to LS and that this
is not the first time that this has happened.

Mike Baker
Gainesville, FL  USA

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