Re: [time-nuts] GPS Patch Antenna Electrode Tarnish
Hi There can be many interesting variations in air quality. I've worked several places where they found that the stock room wasn't the right place to keep silver plated stuff. Being down wind of this or that can be all it takes. Bob On Jan 12, 2013, at 2:56 AM, Attila Kinali att...@kinali.ch wrote: On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 01:25:55 -0800 Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: How much of the crap on exposed silver is oxide vs sulfide? Given the very low amount of sulfur and sulfur compounts in the air, i'd say you've mostly silver oxide. If you are living in an area with heavy traffic though, things look a bit different. Gas contains a quite amount of sulfur and with burning you get some quite reactive compounts. It got a lot better (at least here in europe) after gas had to be desulfurized, but probably not yet perfect. Attila Kinali -- There is no secret ingredient -- Po, Kung Fu Panda ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Patch Antenna Electrode Tarnish
i...@blackmountainforge.com said: The reason that silver is used is that the oxide is also a very good conductor. That's interesting. Does anybody have numbers to back it up? I poked around a bit but didn't find anything. My memory (from ages ago) is that RF gear is often gold plated even though gold is less conductive than silver because gold doesn't oxidize and it's much more conductive than silver oxide. How much of the crap on exposed silver is oxide vs sulfide? Many years ago, a friend told me this story. His friend was in charge of maintenance of microwave towers in California's central valley. He complained a lot, and Bell Labs finally sent out a microwave engineer. They went out to a tower and climbed up to look at things. Just then, a crop duster came by spraying sulfur on the local grapes. They had sent the right guy. He had grown up in German wine country and instantly recognized what was going on. The next batch of microwave gear was gold plated rather than silver. Problem solved. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Patch Antenna Electrode Tarnish
The thing is that it has long been known that the black tarnish that forms on silver is silver sulfide. I have noticed that most of the unwashed masses think that anything that corrodes, or discolors a metal is a rust, or oxide... even when it isn't. Silver oxide is not formed easily. It doesn't happen in air under normal circumstances, it takes ozone, or a lot of heat. Pure water won't do it either. That is one of the reasons humans like silver things. Silver does tarnish quickly in the presence of air borne hydrogen sulfide, of which humans are a major source. Silver oxide is water soluble, and forms silver hydroxide, which is a rather strong alkali, similar to lye. Silver sulfide isn't a great conductor, but it is soft, and rubs away easily, and is a whole lot better than tarnished copper... hence the statements that tarnished silver is a good conductor. You won't find any strict numbers on conductivity for silver sulfide because it is a semiconductor, and as such varies all over the place depending on impurities, past and present exposure to light, and a host of other issues. -Chuck Harris Hal Murray wrote: i...@blackmountainforge.com said: The reason that silver is used is that the oxide is also a very good conductor. That's interesting. Does anybody have numbers to back it up? I poked around a bit but didn't find anything. My memory (from ages ago) is that RF gear is often gold plated even though gold is less conductive than silver because gold doesn't oxidize and it's much more conductive than silver oxide. How much of the crap on exposed silver is oxide vs sulfide? Many years ago, a friend told me this story. His friend was in charge of maintenance of microwave towers in California's central valley. He complained a lot, and Bell Labs finally sent out a microwave engineer. They went out to a tower and climbed up to look at things. Just then, a crop duster came by spraying sulfur on the local grapes. They had sent the right guy. He had grown up in German wine country and instantly recognized what was going on. The next batch of microwave gear was gold plated rather than silver. Problem solved. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Patch Antenna Electrode Tarnish
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 01:25:55 -0800 Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: How much of the crap on exposed silver is oxide vs sulfide? Given the very low amount of sulfur and sulfur compounts in the air, i'd say you've mostly silver oxide. If you are living in an area with heavy traffic though, things look a bit different. Gas contains a quite amount of sulfur and with burning you get some quite reactive compounts. It got a lot better (at least here in europe) after gas had to be desulfurized, but probably not yet perfect. Attila Kinali -- There is no secret ingredient -- Po, Kung Fu Panda ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] GPS Patch Antenna Electrode Tarnish
Dear Nuts, Does the buildup of tarnish on the exposed silver electrode of a typical GPS ceramic patch antenna have any degrading effect on signal reception? A little Tarn-X easily removes it, but I wonder if it's worth bothering, as it always comes back weeks or months later. I've seen it mentioned in various data sheets that tarnish will of course affect solderability, but no mention of signal loss. Thanks in advance. 73, Brent, KD0GLS, Minneapolis ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Patch Antenna Electrode Tarnish
It should have virtually no effect. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Patch Antenna Electrode Tarnish
The reason that silver is used is that the oxide is also a very good conductor. Don't worry. -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of KD0GLS Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 12:33 To: Discussion Time-Nuts Subject: [time-nuts] GPS Patch Antenna Electrode Tarnish Dear Nuts, Does the buildup of tarnish on the exposed silver electrode of a typical GPS ceramic patch antenna have any degrading effect on signal reception? A little Tarn-X easily removes it, but I wonder if it's worth bothering, as it always comes back weeks or months later. I've seen it mentioned in various data sheets that tarnish will of course affect solderability, but no mention of signal loss. Thanks in advance. 73, Brent, KD0GLS, Minneapolis ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
