Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801a piezo oscillator does work

[paul swed]

Bob
I think Mark was suggesting that. As I explained its a odd package.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 7:13 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Can you pull the crystal? sure.
>
> Does your MV-89 have a 5 MHz crystal (the frequency doubled version) or a
> 10 MHz crystal? (sub harmonics viewed on a
> spectrum analyzer are a really good way to tell).
>
> Is the crystal the same size / pinout? Probably not. HP used an odd
> package. You might be able to make a spacer.
>
> Will it hit the right frequency? Likely not without changing some parts ….
>
> Bob
>
>
> > On Dec 18, 2016, at 5:55 PM, Mark Sims  wrote:
> >
> > I have a wonky Morian MV-89... probably the well know output cap
> failure.   I wonder if one could pull the crystal out of that and stick in
> the HP10811?  Something tells me Bob would know  ;-)
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801a piezo oscillator does work

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Can you pull the crystal? sure. 

Does your MV-89 have a 5 MHz crystal (the frequency doubled version) or a 10 
MHz crystal? (sub harmonics viewed on a
spectrum analyzer are a really good way to tell). 

Is the crystal the same size / pinout? Probably not. HP used an odd package. 
You might be able to make a spacer. 

Will it hit the right frequency? Likely not without changing some parts ….

Bob


> On Dec 18, 2016, at 5:55 PM, Mark Sims  wrote:
> 
> I have a wonky Morian MV-89... probably the well know output cap failure.   I 
> wonder if one could pull the crystal out of that and stick in the HP10811?  
> Something tells me Bob would know  ;-)
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801a piezo oscillator does work

[paul swed]

Mark
I tend to agree with you on Bob. But that said the 10811 crystal is a bit
odd.
Its actually a copper cylinder with a screw on top. I believe to insure
correct even heat distribution. There are pix's of it on one of the sights.
Maybe the crystal comes out of the copper.
The 10811 used in the Z3801 is a bit different from standard 10811 in the
tuning sensitivity and I may believe that stability of the steps. But thats
a guess. Some of the sites mention this.
My goal was to simply confirm the rest of the 3801 boards were good and it
is. So I have a spare for my operating 3801. Though it seems to be doing a
fair job as compared to a TBolt I am using as a reference.

I have messed with the bad 10811 checking caps, resitors, and temperature
and its still 50 Hz low. May dive back into that though I have exhausted
pretty much anything thats possible.

Need to clean things up by a lot. Then go searching for the com ports
stalls that sort of started this journey.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 5:55 PM, Mark Sims  wrote:

> I have a wonky Morian MV-89... probably the well know output cap failure.
>  I wonder if one could pull the crystal out of that and stick in the
> HP10811?  Something tells me Bob would know  ;-)
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[time-nuts] HP Z3801a piezo oscillator does work

[Mark Sims]

I have a wonky Morian MV-89... probably the well know output cap failure.   I 
wonder if one could pull the crystal out of that and stick in the HP10811?  
Something tells me Bob would know  ;-)
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[time-nuts] HP Z3801a piezo oscillator does work

[paul swed]

OK the 10 MHz Piezo oscillator from a lucent RC/xtal pair does work and the
3801 is doing what it should.

Some insights as mentioned. 3801 DAC being full scale is not an issue when
a good signal within 2 HZ is used it will come out of limit.

The DAC output was driving the piezo far to widely I added a 10:1 V
antennuator to reduce the swing. The piezo requires a positive only EFC and
its control is inverted as compared to the HP 10811. Used a single TL071
opamp to invert the signal and apply the offset. By calculations it should
have been offset to 3.6V but the system seems to want 2.5V. Pretty sure an
adjustment on the actual oscillator would fix that.

I can now see that something like an RB could be plugged into the 3801 etc.

But more important the proof is that the actual Z3801 is fully functional
and the only bad thing is a the HP 10811 oscillator.
Its been a great learning exercise. How to get rid of teh outer oven. How
to use far simpler power supplies to run the 3801 instead of the 48 volt
mess.
Overall a lower power consumption solution can be built.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
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[time-nuts] HP Z3801a insights and progress.

[paul swed]

Making serious progress on the ole basket case Z3801a.
Somethings that may be helpful to others.
Its easy to completely remove the 48 volt power supply and use a normal
bench supply. Especially if you are not using the outer oven and have a bad
ocxo. So all below without the ocxo and a TBolt 10 MHz feeding the 3801 ref
in.
Red +5 at 57 ma
Yellow + 15 at 27 ma
Blue -15 at 0 amps very small.
The purple is a control wire and the green is a temp sense from the outer
oven.
Seems not to matter on these two. Though I sense (Pun intended) green does
need to be set.

How does the system tell when the OCXO is warm. Since the OCXO gets 24
volts by a +/- 12 V the sense must go negative to at least -9V.
this then signals the oven is warm. The rest of the 3801 starts working.

I suspect this same require can be used for the outer oven. Its unclear its
needed though.

By using an external bench supply the board becomes easy to work on after
the 48 V converter is taken off. This is a great way to troubleshoot.

More to learn.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A

[Joseph Gray]

Someone bought it with the Z3801A.

Joe


On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 11:08 AM, Eric Scace  wrote:
> Hi Joe —
>
>I’ll take the HP-58516A splitter, if you’re willing to see it separately.
>
> — Eric K3NA
>
>> On 2016 Nov 27, at 14:15 , Joseph Gray  wrote:
>>
>> I'm selling my remaining Z3801A. Months ago, I replaced the original
>> GPS module with a more sensitive Oncore VP. At that time, I also
>> replaced several suspect capacitors on the DC-DC converter board.
>> Everything has been 100% since. The RS-232 mod was done long ago.
>>
>> A serial cable and a 24 VDC power supply is included. I will also
>> include a spare Oncore VP module for free. Asking $300 plus
>> shipping/insurance.
>>
>> I also have an HP 58516A 4-way GPS splitter that I will include for $50 more.
>>
>> Joe Gray
>> W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Software

[Charles Steinmetz]

 Any other software out there for the "Z-Box" besides SatStat (clock
 works, nothing else) or GPSCon (too pricey for this Olde Yankee) ?


I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the late Ulrich Bangert's free 
software, "Z38xx".  Still available on Ulrich's web site:




Best regards,

Charles


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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Software

[Richard W. Solomon]

I just downloaded it. I'll try it tomorrow. 

Tnx es HH, Dick, W1KSZ

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Charles 
Steinmetz
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 7:24 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Software

>  Any other software out there for the "Z-Box" besides SatStat (clock  
> works, nothing else) or GPSCon (too pricey for this Olde Yankee) ?

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the late Ulrich Bangert's free software, 
"Z38xx".  Still available on Ulrich's web site:

<http://www.ulrich-bangert.de/html/downloads.html>

Best regards,

Charles


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[time-nuts] HP Z3801A Software

[Mark Sims]

BTW,  the next version can display lat/lon/alt in Maidenhead coordinates.
Also several more (UTM, MGRS, NATO, grads, radians, mils, etc)



>   Sounds like it's scheduled to be released right after the next 
version of DXBase (Ham Radio in joke).
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Software

[Richard W. Solomon]

Sounds like it's scheduled to be released right after the next 
version of DXBase (Ham Radio in joke).

73, Dick, W1KSZ

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sims
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 2:14 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Software

The next release of Lady Heather will work with it...

I just got in an NEC GPSDO (compatible with the Oscilloquartz Star-4) and am 
getting things working with it.   Heather should be released shortly (yeah, I 
know...)  Unfortunately the NEC device reports a bad OCXO so it never gets out 
of the power-up phase.

---

>  Any other software out there for the "Z-Box" besides SatStat (clock 
> works,
nothing else) or 

GPSCon (too pricey for this Olde Yankee) ?
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Software

[Richard W. Solomon]

I just checked e-Pay and see only one, but I'll keep tabs on them.

Thanks for the tip,

73, Dick, W1KSZ

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sims
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 4:24 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Software

The new version will run on a Raspberry PI...  or just about any 
Windows/Linux/macOS system (including old Power PC systems).  Windows version 
has been tested down to Win98 and up to Win 10.   I've never tried it on Win95. 
 Heather's hardware requirements have been kept lean and mean... unfortunately 
the days of a minimal DOS configuration are long past...  blame the code monkey 
and creeping featureitis...

I have a lot of Compaq EVO N610C laptops that I use for a lot of stuff.  They 
run XP or Linux Ubuntu Mate.   Paid around $35 dollars each on Ebay.

Version 4.0 on John's site does not have Z3801A support.   The next release 
will be v5.0


-

> Looks like I need something else.
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[time-nuts] HP Z3801A Software

[Mark Sims]

The new version will run on a Raspberry PI...  or just about any 
Windows/Linux/macOS system (including old Power PC systems).  Windows version 
has been tested down to Win98 and up to Win 10.   I've never tried it on Win95. 
 Heather's hardware requirements have been kept lean and mean... unfortunately 
the days of a minimal DOS configuration are long past...  blame the code monkey 
and creeping featureitis...

I have a lot of Compaq EVO N610C laptops that I use for a lot of stuff.  They 
run XP or Linux Ubuntu Mate.   Paid around $35 dollars each on Ebay.

Version 4.0 on John's site does not have Z3801A support.   The next release 
will be v5.0


-

> Looks like I need something else.
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Software

[Richard W. Solomon]

I don't think I want to get into all that. A canned program would be best 
for my needs.

Thanks for the reply,

73 es HH, Dick, W1KSZ

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Hal Murray
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 2:11 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Cc: hmur...@megapathdsl.net
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Software


w1...@earthlink.net said:
> Any other software out there for the "Z-Box" besides SatStat (clock 
> works, nothing else) or

What are you looking for?

I have a python hack that displays the status screen every N seconds and logs a 
bunch of parameters so you can feed them to gnuplot or the tools of your choice.

It's a hack.  The UI is to edit the source.

--
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Software

[Richard W. Solomon]

There's a Beta version on the Web Site, but it has grown beyond 
the realm of us mere mortals. It's too large to fit on a Floppy 
Disk and my ancient Compaq Laptop I use for such things has no USB 
Port. They didn't exist when this Dinosaur was made.

Looks like I need something else.

Thanks anyway,

73, Dick, W1KSZ

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sims
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 2:14 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Software

The next release of Lady Heather will work with it...

I just got in an NEC GPSDO (compatible with the Oscilloquartz Star-4) and am 
getting things working with it.   Heather should be released shortly (yeah, I 
know...)  Unfortunately the NEC device reports a bad OCXO so it never gets out 
of the power-up phase.

---

>  Any other software out there for the "Z-Box" besides SatStat (clock 
> works,
nothing else) or 

GPSCon (too pricey for this Olde Yankee) ?
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Software

[Hal Murray]

w1...@earthlink.net said:
> Any other software out there for the "Z-Box" besides SatStat (clock works,
> nothing else) or  

What are you looking for?

I have a python hack that displays the status screen every N seconds and logs 
a bunch of parameters so you can feed them to gnuplot or the tools of your 
choice.

It's a hack.  The UI is to edit the source.

-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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[time-nuts] HP Z3801A Software

[Mark Sims]

The next release of Lady Heather will work with it...

I just got in an NEC GPSDO (compatible with the Oscilloquartz Star-4) and am 
getting things working with it.   Heather should be released shortly (yeah, I 
know...)  Unfortunately the NEC device reports a bad OCXO so it never gets out 
of the power-up phase.

---

>  Any other software out there for the "Z-Box" besides SatStat (clock works,
nothing else) or 

GPSCon (too pricey for this Olde Yankee) ?
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[time-nuts] HP Z3801A Software

[Richard W. Solomon]

Any other software out there for the "Z-Box" besides SatStat (clock works,
nothing else) or 

GPSCon (too pricey for this Olde Yankee) ?

 

Tnx es HH (Happy Holidays), Dick, W1KSZ

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A

[Eric Scace]

Hi Joe —

   I’ll take the HP-58516A splitter, if you’re willing to see it separately.

— Eric K3NA

> On 2016 Nov 27, at 14:15 , Joseph Gray  wrote:
> 
> I'm selling my remaining Z3801A. Months ago, I replaced the original
> GPS module with a more sensitive Oncore VP. At that time, I also
> replaced several suspect capacitors on the DC-DC converter board.
> Everything has been 100% since. The RS-232 mod was done long ago.
> 
> A serial cable and a 24 VDC power supply is included. I will also
> include a spare Oncore VP module for free. Asking $300 plus
> shipping/insurance.
> 
> I also have an HP 58516A 4-way GPS splitter that I will include for $50 more.
> 
> Joe Gray
> W5JG
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[time-nuts] HP Z3801A GPSDO excess to my needs

[Mike Baker]

Hello, Time-nutters--

I have an HP Z3801A GPS receiver that I used the 10 MHz output
from to phase-lock my Tek-494 spec-analyzer and HP 8714 VNA to.
It worked well, but then I discovered how neat the Lady Heather
program showed off the functions of a Trimble T-bolt and switched
over to one of those.  The Z3801A has been sitting unused on a shelf in
my workshop for at least 2 years and I am trying to free up some
shelf space.

Is anyone on the Time-Nuts list interested in this unit for $100 plus
$10 USPS shipping costs?If not, I will list it on eBay for $150 plus
$10 shipping.

I have forgotten what software program I used to display & control
the Z3801A functions with.   I believe it was "GPSCon Pro" found
at this URL:

http://www.realhamradio.com/GPS_Frequency_Standard.htm
*

Instead of connecting the Z3801A to an external 28 VDC supply
I installed a 28 VDC power supply internally.  Photos of the
unit can be seen here in my DropBox folder:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8heuqaamusugd68/IMG_0443.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6e27erk5zw671v3/IMG_0447.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1a9k080qt8skxeo/IMG_0449.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5f764smp1jkrira/IMG_0451.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ezzis5w4hfjw0l7/IMG_0452.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qcqt2fcbgn6j867/IMG_0453.JPG?dl=0

Thanks for any feedback on this!!

Mike Baker
Micanopy, FL  USA
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Internal Power Supply issues

[paul swed]

I had the same thing happen on 1ks24361
Makes a nasty smell

On Sunday, January 31, 2016, Adrian Godwin  wrote:

> A tant melted on one of my KS-246361 boxes (I guess they're a similar age,
> possibly even the same source). The only one so far to have trouble. It
> failed in such a way that it continued to smoke and load up the power
> supply,
>
> The current drawn from the no-name laptop power supply was still well
> within spec, at least by the time I post-mortem'ed it. But that melted too,
> and took out three levels of circuit breakers. The KS-24361 worked
> perfectly after replacing the cap.
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 4:42 PM, Bob Camp >
> wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > I had one that took out the internal fuse once every 3 to 5 years. After
> > replacing the fuse 3 times, the supply died. Go figure … only 15 years or
> > use.
> >
> > Bob
> > > On Jan 31, 2016, at 9:11 AM, paul swed  > wrote:
> > >
> > > As I mentioned in the another thread this week.
> > > You can indeed replace the failed voltage with just another inverter.
> > > Mine has run this way for 10 years. Mine was a 5 by the way. If it was
> > one
> > > side of the +/-15 I would say you want to replace both.
> > > The entire switcher can be replaced with supplies that work off of 110
> so
> > > you can get rid of the 48 volt supplies.
> > > Good luck
> > > Paul
> > > WB8TSL
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:04 AM, Alex Pummer  > wrote:
> > >
> > >> power supply runs for a while, output current increases, but voltage
> > stays
> > >> correct -> problem is in the load circuit, load circuit working for a
> > while
> > >> load current increases, but it recovers after pause -> look for some
> > >> tantalum capacitor in the load circuit, they recover often  a few
> times
> > >> before they finally die,
> > >> KJ6UHN
> > >> Alex
> > >>
> > >> On 1/30/2016 6:21 PM, Artek Manuals wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> My Z3801A began to die over the last few days. It would work for an
> > hour
> > >>> or two then produce a receiver error and communications problems.
> Turn
> > it
> > >>> off, let it sit awhile, back on and it would start the survey and
> then
> > >>> begin to recover. Tonight it finally went dead with high current on
> the
> > >>> main input . The feed supply has a 2amp current limit so I have not
> > blown
> > >>> the two 3amp fuses
> > >>>
> > >>> I have a schematic of the supply reverse engineered by Stefan
> > Hegnauere a
> > >>> few years ago (thank you very much) and a limited theory of operation
> > >>> description so I am not totally dead from a troubleshooting point of
> > view
> > >>> although if one of the DC-DC converters is dead then I will likely
> > have to
> > >>> scrap the supply
> > >>>
> > >>> Questions
> > >>> 1) Any prior experience as where to look first I checked the
> > >>> electrolytics and at first glance they seem fine, no loss of magic
> > smoke or
> > >>> any parts obviously hot or bulging. ESR 's look good on those
> > >>> 2) Will this supply function unloaded while I troubleshoot it on the
> > >>> bench out of the unit?
> > >>> 3) Anyone tried independent powering the Z3801? looks like two 5V
> > >>> supplies and +/- 15V..not hard to to do
> > >>> 4) Anyone with a good supply from a parts unit want to part with
> same?
> > >>>
> > >>> Dave
> > >>> NR1DX
> > >>> ArtekManuals.com
> > >>>
> > >>>
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Internal Power Supply issues

[Bob Camp]

Hi

I had one that took out the internal fuse once every 3 to 5 years. After 
replacing the fuse 3 times, the supply died. Go figure … only 15 years or use.

Bob
> On Jan 31, 2016, at 9:11 AM, paul swed  wrote:
> 
> As I mentioned in the another thread this week.
> You can indeed replace the failed voltage with just another inverter.
> Mine has run this way for 10 years. Mine was a 5 by the way. If it was one
> side of the +/-15 I would say you want to replace both.
> The entire switcher can be replaced with supplies that work off of 110 so
> you can get rid of the 48 volt supplies.
> Good luck
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> 
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:04 AM, Alex Pummer  wrote:
> 
>> power supply runs for a while, output current increases, but voltage stays
>> correct -> problem is in the load circuit, load circuit working for a while
>> load current increases, but it recovers after pause -> look for some
>> tantalum capacitor in the load circuit, they recover often  a few times
>> before they finally die,
>> KJ6UHN
>> Alex
>> 
>> On 1/30/2016 6:21 PM, Artek Manuals wrote:
>> 
>>> My Z3801A began to die over the last few days. It would work for an hour
>>> or two then produce a receiver error and communications problems. Turn it
>>> off, let it sit awhile, back on and it would start the survey and then
>>> begin to recover. Tonight it finally went dead with high current on the
>>> main input . The feed supply has a 2amp current limit so I have not blown
>>> the two 3amp fuses
>>> 
>>> I have a schematic of the supply reverse engineered by Stefan Hegnauere a
>>> few years ago (thank you very much) and a limited theory of operation
>>> description so I am not totally dead from a troubleshooting point of view
>>> although if one of the DC-DC converters is dead then I will likely have to
>>> scrap the supply
>>> 
>>> Questions
>>> 1) Any prior experience as where to look first I checked the
>>> electrolytics and at first glance they seem fine, no loss of magic smoke or
>>> any parts obviously hot or bulging. ESR 's look good on those
>>> 2) Will this supply function unloaded while I troubleshoot it on the
>>> bench out of the unit?
>>> 3) Anyone tried independent powering the Z3801? looks like two 5V
>>> supplies and +/- 15V..not hard to to do
>>> 4) Anyone with a good supply from a parts unit want to part with same?
>>> 
>>> Dave
>>> NR1DX
>>> ArtekManuals.com
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Internal Power Supply issues

[Adrian Godwin]

A tant melted on one of my KS-246361 boxes (I guess they're a similar age,
possibly even the same source). The only one so far to have trouble. It
failed in such a way that it continued to smoke and load up the power
supply,

The current drawn from the no-name laptop power supply was still well
within spec, at least by the time I post-mortem'ed it. But that melted too,
and took out three levels of circuit breakers. The KS-24361 worked
perfectly after replacing the cap.




On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 4:42 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:

> Hi
>
> I had one that took out the internal fuse once every 3 to 5 years. After
> replacing the fuse 3 times, the supply died. Go figure … only 15 years or
> use.
>
> Bob
> > On Jan 31, 2016, at 9:11 AM, paul swed  wrote:
> >
> > As I mentioned in the another thread this week.
> > You can indeed replace the failed voltage with just another inverter.
> > Mine has run this way for 10 years. Mine was a 5 by the way. If it was
> one
> > side of the +/-15 I would say you want to replace both.
> > The entire switcher can be replaced with supplies that work off of 110 so
> > you can get rid of the 48 volt supplies.
> > Good luck
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:04 AM, Alex Pummer  wrote:
> >
> >> power supply runs for a while, output current increases, but voltage
> stays
> >> correct -> problem is in the load circuit, load circuit working for a
> while
> >> load current increases, but it recovers after pause -> look for some
> >> tantalum capacitor in the load circuit, they recover often  a few times
> >> before they finally die,
> >> KJ6UHN
> >> Alex
> >>
> >> On 1/30/2016 6:21 PM, Artek Manuals wrote:
> >>
> >>> My Z3801A began to die over the last few days. It would work for an
> hour
> >>> or two then produce a receiver error and communications problems. Turn
> it
> >>> off, let it sit awhile, back on and it would start the survey and then
> >>> begin to recover. Tonight it finally went dead with high current on the
> >>> main input . The feed supply has a 2amp current limit so I have not
> blown
> >>> the two 3amp fuses
> >>>
> >>> I have a schematic of the supply reverse engineered by Stefan
> Hegnauere a
> >>> few years ago (thank you very much) and a limited theory of operation
> >>> description so I am not totally dead from a troubleshooting point of
> view
> >>> although if one of the DC-DC converters is dead then I will likely
> have to
> >>> scrap the supply
> >>>
> >>> Questions
> >>> 1) Any prior experience as where to look first I checked the
> >>> electrolytics and at first glance they seem fine, no loss of magic
> smoke or
> >>> any parts obviously hot or bulging. ESR 's look good on those
> >>> 2) Will this supply function unloaded while I troubleshoot it on the
> >>> bench out of the unit?
> >>> 3) Anyone tried independent powering the Z3801? looks like two 5V
> >>> supplies and +/- 15V..not hard to to do
> >>> 4) Anyone with a good supply from a parts unit want to part with same?
> >>>
> >>> Dave
> >>> NR1DX
> >>> ArtekManuals.com
> >>>
> >>>
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Internal Power Supply issues

[paul swed]

As I mentioned in the another thread this week.
You can indeed replace the failed voltage with just another inverter.
Mine has run this way for 10 years. Mine was a 5 by the way. If it was one
side of the +/-15 I would say you want to replace both.
The entire switcher can be replaced with supplies that work off of 110 so
you can get rid of the 48 volt supplies.
Good luck
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:04 AM, Alex Pummer  wrote:

> power supply runs for a while, output current increases, but voltage stays
> correct -> problem is in the load circuit, load circuit working for a while
> load current increases, but it recovers after pause -> look for some
> tantalum capacitor in the load circuit, they recover often  a few times
> before they finally die,
> KJ6UHN
> Alex
>
> On 1/30/2016 6:21 PM, Artek Manuals wrote:
>
>> My Z3801A began to die over the last few days. It would work for an hour
>> or two then produce a receiver error and communications problems. Turn it
>> off, let it sit awhile, back on and it would start the survey and then
>> begin to recover. Tonight it finally went dead with high current on the
>> main input . The feed supply has a 2amp current limit so I have not blown
>> the two 3amp fuses
>>
>> I have a schematic of the supply reverse engineered by Stefan Hegnauere a
>> few years ago (thank you very much) and a limited theory of operation
>> description so I am not totally dead from a troubleshooting point of view
>> although if one of the DC-DC converters is dead then I will likely have to
>> scrap the supply
>>
>> Questions
>> 1) Any prior experience as where to look first I checked the
>> electrolytics and at first glance they seem fine, no loss of magic smoke or
>> any parts obviously hot or bulging. ESR 's look good on those
>> 2) Will this supply function unloaded while I troubleshoot it on the
>> bench out of the unit?
>> 3) Anyone tried independent powering the Z3801? looks like two 5V
>> supplies and +/- 15V..not hard to to do
>> 4) Anyone with a good supply from a parts unit want to part with same?
>>
>> Dave
>> NR1DX
>> ArtekManuals.com
>>
>>
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[time-nuts] HP Z3801A Internal Power Supply issues

[Artek Manuals]

My Z3801A began to die over the last few days. It would work for an hour 
or two then produce a receiver error and communications problems. Turn 
it off, let it sit awhile, back on and it would start the survey and 
then begin to recover. Tonight it finally went dead with high current on 
the main input . The feed supply  has a 2amp current limit so I have not 
blown the two 3amp fuses


I have a schematic of the supply reverse engineered by Stefan Hegnauere 
a few years ago (thank you very much) and a limited theory of operation 
description so I am not totally dead from a troubleshooting point of 
view although if one of the DC-DC converters is dead then I will likely 
have to scrap the supply


Questions
1) Any prior experience as where to look first I checked the 
electrolytics and at first glance they seem fine, no loss of magic smoke 
or any parts obviously hot or bulging. ESR 's look good on those
2) Will this supply function unloaded while I troubleshoot it on the 
bench out of the unit?
3) Anyone tried independent powering the Z3801? looks like two 5V 
supplies and +/- 15V..not hard to to do

4) Anyone with a good supply from a parts unit want to part with same?

Dave
NR1DX
ArtekManuals.com

--
Dave
manu...@artekmanuals.com
www.ArtekManuals.com


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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Internal Power Supply issues

[Alex Pummer]

power supply runs for a while, output current increases, but voltage 
stays correct -> problem is in the load circuit, load circuit working 
for a while load current increases, but it recovers after pause -> look 
for some tantalum capacitor in the load circuit, they recover often  a 
few times before they finally die,

KJ6UHN
Alex

On 1/30/2016 6:21 PM, Artek Manuals wrote:
My Z3801A began to die over the last few days. It would work for an 
hour or two then produce a receiver error and communications problems. 
Turn it off, let it sit awhile, back on and it would start the survey 
and then begin to recover. Tonight it finally went dead with high 
current on the main input . The feed supply has a 2amp current limit 
so I have not blown the two 3amp fuses


I have a schematic of the supply reverse engineered by Stefan 
Hegnauere a few years ago (thank you very much) and a limited theory 
of operation description so I am not totally dead from a 
troubleshooting point of view although if one of the DC-DC converters 
is dead then I will likely have to scrap the supply


Questions
1) Any prior experience as where to look first I checked the 
electrolytics and at first glance they seem fine, no loss of magic 
smoke or any parts obviously hot or bulging. ESR 's look good on those
2) Will this supply function unloaded while I troubleshoot it on the 
bench out of the unit?
3) Anyone tried independent powering the Z3801? looks like two 5V 
supplies and +/- 15V..not hard to to do

4) Anyone with a good supply from a parts unit want to part with same?

Dave
NR1DX
ArtekManuals.com



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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A and Tac32

[Bob Camp]

Hi

There are a *lot* of places that archive this list. As long as you know roughly 
when the messages came through, it's not to hard to go dig them up. That's also 
a good reason to keep things on list rather than taking everything off list.

Bob

On Nov 12, 2012, at 8:53 PM, Merv Thomas vk6...@iinet.net.au wrote:

 Hi - Thanks to all for the helpful hints which may enable me to use Tac32. 
 Sorry for a new posting but I had a calamity and somehow deleted all the 
 replies instead of moving them to my Timenuts folder!!
 
 I converted the output to the DB25 connector on the back of the unit to RS232 
 comms but it seems I will have to bring a data stream direct from the GPS 
 module out to a separate connector if I am going to be able to read the data. 
   Probably will give this a miss as the BDS software does a first class job 
 anyway.
 
 Merv  VK6BMT 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A and Tac32

[Brian Kirby]

Was that aimed at me Bob ?

The article I pointed him to off the list was wrote by me years ago - 
when Time-Nuts was in its infancy - in fact I found Time-Nuts via that 
list (Bill Jones sent me to Tom Van Baak).


I do not believe in duplicating the effort and there were pictures there 
about the modifications required.



Brian Kirby
KD4FM

On 11/13/2012 5:57 AM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

There are a *lot* of places that archive this list. As long as you know roughly when the 
messages came through, it's not to hard to go dig them up. That's also a good reason to 
keep things on list rather than taking everything off list.

Bob

On Nov 12, 2012, at 8:53 PM, Merv Thomas vk6...@iinet.net.au wrote:


Hi - Thanks to all for the helpful hints which may enable me to use Tac32. 
Sorry for a new posting but I had a calamity and somehow deleted all the 
replies instead of moving them to my Timenuts folder!!

I converted the output to the DB25 connector on the back of the unit to RS232 
comms but it seems I will have to bring a data stream direct from the GPS 
module out to a separate connector if I am going to be able to read the data.   
Probably will give this a miss as the BDS software does a first class job 
anyway.

Merv  VK6BMT

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A and Tac32

[Bob Camp]

Hi

No, not at all, my only point is that keeping info on the list is a good idea 
for many reasons (like deleting emails by accident).

Bob

On Nov 13, 2012, at 9:04 PM, Brian Kirby bryan-ke...@att.net wrote:

 Was that aimed at me Bob ?
 
 The article I pointed him to off the list was wrote by me years ago - when 
 Time-Nuts was in its infancy - in fact I found Time-Nuts via that list (Bill 
 Jones sent me to Tom Van Baak).
 
 I do not believe in duplicating the effort and there were pictures there 
 about the modifications required.
 
 
 Brian Kirby
 KD4FM
 
 On 11/13/2012 5:57 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
 Hi
 
 There are a *lot* of places that archive this list. As long as you know 
 roughly when the messages came through, it's not to hard to go dig them up. 
 That's also a good reason to keep things on list rather than taking 
 everything off list.
 
 Bob
 
 On Nov 12, 2012, at 8:53 PM, Merv Thomas vk6...@iinet.net.au wrote:
 
 Hi - Thanks to all for the helpful hints which may enable me to use Tac32. 
 Sorry for a new posting but I had a calamity and somehow deleted all the 
 replies instead of moving them to my Timenuts folder!!
 
 I converted the output to the DB25 connector on the back of the unit to 
 RS232 comms but it seems I will have to bring a data stream direct from the 
 GPS module out to a separate connector if I am going to be able to read the 
 data.   Probably will give this a miss as the BDS software does a first 
 class job anyway.
 
 Merv  VK6BMT
 
 ___
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[time-nuts] HP Z3801A and Tac32

[Merv Thomas]

Hi - Thanks to all for the helpful hints which may enable me to use Tac32. 
Sorry for a new posting but I had a calamity and somehow deleted all the 
replies instead of moving them to my Timenuts folder!!


I converted the output to the DB25 connector on the back of the unit to 
RS232 comms but it seems I will have to bring a data stream direct from the 
GPS module out to a separate connector if I am going to be able to read the 
data.   Probably will give this a miss as the BDS software does a first 
class job anyway.


Merv  VK6BMT 



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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A and Tac32

[Brian Kirby]

http://www.realhamradio.com/tac32-interface.htm

Brian Kirby KD4FM

On 11/12/2012 7:53 PM, Merv Thomas wrote:
Hi - Thanks to all for the helpful hints which may enable me to use 
Tac32. Sorry for a new posting but I had a calamity and somehow 
deleted all the replies instead of moving them to my Timenuts folder!!


I converted the output to the DB25 connector on the back of the unit 
to RS232 comms but it seems I will have to bring a data stream direct 
from the GPS module out to a separate connector if I am going to be 
able to read the data.   Probably will give this a miss as the BDS 
software does a first class job anyway.


Merv  VK6BMT

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[time-nuts] HP Z3801A and Tac 32

[Merv Thomas]

Hi All,

I use a Z3801A with a software program called GPS Control published by BDS 
Systems of Colorado and the setup works well but I have never been able to 
look at or control the 3801A using Tac32.


Very recently Tac32 was upgraded to allow one to choose most of the GPS 
receiver communications parameters but even with this I can not achieve any 
data.  GPS Control is set as :


Baud Rate 19200
Parity ODD
Data bits 7
Stop bits 1
Handshake NONE


Please someone help me with suggestions as to what protocol the 3801A 
outputs and whether it is possible to use Tac32 successfully using the same 
communication paramaters as for the BDS software?


Thanks - Merv  VK6BMT 



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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A and Tac 32

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Unless the software has changed a lot, Tac32 will monitor the GPS card in the 
3801, but not the 3801. The back of a normal 3801 gets it's data from the 
disciplining CPU and not from the GPS. 

You have a couple choices:

1) Modify the 3801 to bring out the wires from the GPS card
2) Switch to one of the free programs that monitor the 3801 

Keep in mind that the 3801 needs some jumpers changed to talk RS-232.

Lots of info at:

http://www.realhamradio.com/GPS_Frequency_Standard.htm

Bob


On Nov 11, 2012, at 6:26 AM, Merv Thomas vk6...@iinet.net.au wrote:

 Hi All,
 
 I use a Z3801A with a software program called GPS Control published by BDS 
 Systems of Colorado and the setup works well but I have never been able to 
 look at or control the 3801A using Tac32.
 
 Very recently Tac32 was upgraded to allow one to choose most of the GPS 
 receiver communications parameters but even with this I can not achieve any 
 data.  GPS Control is set as :
 
 Baud Rate 19200
 Parity ODD
 Data bits 7
 Stop bits 1
 Handshake NONE
 
 
 Please someone help me with suggestions as to what protocol the 3801A outputs 
 and whether it is possible to use Tac32 successfully using the same 
 communication paramaters as for the BDS software?
 
 Thanks - Merv  VK6BMT 
 
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[time-nuts] HP Z3801A and Tac 32

[BD Systems Inc.]

The BD Systems GPS Control Program communicates with the Z3801A (and other HP / 
Symmetricom receivers) exclusively through the scpi command protocol.
 
Chuck Zabilski
BD Systems, Inc.
 


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To: time-nuts@febo.com 
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 5:00 AM
Subject: time-nuts Digest, Vol 100, Issue 36
  
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Today's Topics:

   1. HP Z3801A and Tac 32 (Merv Thomas)


--

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 19:26:20 +0800
From: Merv Thomas vk6...@iinet.net.au
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A and Tac 32
Message-ID: 62620B68EC1B41F48AB81154F97C60DC@MervPC
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
    reply-type=original

Hi All,

I use a Z3801A with a software program called GPS Control published by BDS 
Systems of Colorado and the setup works well but I have never been able to 
look at or control the 3801A using Tac32.

Very recently Tac32 was upgraded to allow one to choose most of the GPS 
receiver communications parameters but even with this I can not achieve any 
data.  GPS Control is set as :

Baud Rate 19200
Parity ODD
Data bits 7
Stop bits 1
Handshake NONE


Please someone help me with suggestions as to what protocol the 3801A 
outputs and whether it is possible to use Tac32 successfully using the same 
communication paramaters as for the BDS software?

Thanks - Merv  VK6BMT 




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End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 100, Issue 36
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[time-nuts] HP z3801a dc-dc converter

[g3...@talktalk.net]

Hi
Does anyone have a spare Datel DC-DC converter for this standard, mine has
died after not being used for 3 years, it has a short on the +15V o/p and
they seem to be like hens teeth now. 
Regards
 
Andy 



mail2web - Check your email from the web at
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Re: [time-nuts] HP z3801a dc-dc converter

[Azelio Boriani]

Sure it is the DC-DC with the output shorted? Maybe the short is on the
board. Try to measure with the DC-DC removed. Anyway if the Datel DC-DC is
a 2x2 inches unit then it is an industry standard and you can try other
brands.

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 3:14 PM, g3...@talktalk.net g3...@talktalk.netwrote:

 Hi
 Does anyone have a spare Datel DC-DC converter for this standard, mine has
 died after not being used for 3 years, it has a short on the +15V o/p and
 they seem to be like hens teeth now.
 Regards

 Andy


 
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[time-nuts] HP Z3801A GPS Receiver

[Merv Thomas]

My Unit comes up with an INVALID EFC +0 when switched on and never tracks
any satellites.

ALL other indicators(using GPS Control s/ware)say all is well including the
EFC!!

The EFC Volts read 19.029% or Absolute N value of 624056 so it is not near
the end of it's EFC range.

Anyone who has similar experience could possibly suggest a solution?

Merv


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[time-nuts] HP Z3801A Sale

[Arthur Dent]

Hal Murray hmurray at megapathdsl.net 
Would you please say more?  Or post pictures?

Where did you find a 200 ms PPS pulse?


The circuitry I added takes the narrow positive going timing pulse
(2V/25us) on pin 2 of the surface mounted Lucent 1141 IC (U5)
near the DB25 output connector on the main pc board and uses
a single NPN transistor to inverts it to produce a negative going
5V pulse to trigger a 555 pulse generator. The generator output
is a 5volt positive pulse about 0.2 seconds wide that can drive an
LED as well as give a 1PPS rectangular waveform output to an
added BNC connector on the rear panel. The reason I used .2sec 
for the pulse is so it would be long enough to be seen on the LED 
I mounted on the front panel. 

The modification only requires one 555 IC that is used to generate 
the .2 second wide 1PPS pulse, 1 general purpose NPN transistor 
(2N), 6 resistors, 1 LED, and 3 capacitors. All parts used are 
common and I mounted them on a 16-pin dip socket with 2 stiff 
resistor leads soldered to pads on the main board labeled ‘J3’ 
where the right rear corner pad I believe was the +5V and the 3rd 
pad from the right was ground, but you’ll have to check that to make 
sure.

The circuit board on the front panel already has properly spaced
and positioned holes for an LED but there is no hole in the panel
so you’ll have to drill one. I have a photo of how I mounted it but
you’re on your own making that modification.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7054/7035510675_fa49693f36_z.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7251/6889434938_951a57e093.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7253/7035489479_c0bdb34dbf_b.jpg
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Sale

[Hal Murray]

 There really is nothing much to this modification.  The Z3801A is already
 designed to easily work on either interface, but most units are configured
 for RS-422 as the default.  It takes perhaps a half-hour to remove a few
 zero-ohm SMD resistors and solder in a header strip.  The simple procedure
 is described and illustrated here: www.ad6a.com/Z3801A.html 

You don't need the header strip.   There are empty slots waiting for some of 
the 0-ohm jumpers you have to remove.

I think they are the three to the right of the circle in figure-13 of the 
above URL.  You can work out which is which by following the traces or using 
an ohm-meter.

Here is another URL in case you want a second opinion:
  http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/Z3801AReceiverModifications


-- 
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.  I hate spam.




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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Sale

[Magnus Danielson]

On 03/31/2012 08:11 AM, Hal Murray wrote:



There really is nothing much to this modification.  The Z3801A is already
designed to easily work on either interface, but most units are configured
for RS-422 as the default.  It takes perhaps a half-hour to remove a few
zero-ohm SMD resistors and solder in a header strip.  The simple procedure
is described and illustrated here:www.ad6a.com/Z3801A.html


You don't need the header strip.   There are empty slots waiting for some of
the 0-ohm jumpers you have to remove.

I think they are the three to the right of the circle in figure-13 of the
above URL.  You can work out which is which by following the traces or using
an ohm-meter.

Here is another URL in case you want a second opinion:
   http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/Z3801AReceiverModifications




The modification is trivial and recommended.

Has anyone figured out the other modifications possible? There's a 
second FPGA to drop in, I just haven't bothered to try that. There seems 
to be a secondary serial port available.


Cheers,
Magnus

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[time-nuts] HP Z3801A Sale

[Arthur Dent]

Has anyone figured out the other modifications possible? 

About 10 years ago I added a true ~200ms PPS LED to existing holes in the 
circuit board on the front panel plus a BNC connector to bring the same TTL 
level signal out the back of the unit.
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Sale

[Eric Lemmon]

Hal,

The beauty of the header strips is that the Z3801A can easily and quickly be
converted back to RS-422 in the future, without having to partially
dismantle the unit and do more soldering- again.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Hal Murray
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:12 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Sale


 There really is nothing much to this modification.  The Z3801A is
already
 designed to easily work on either interface, but most units are configured
 for RS-422 as the default.  It takes perhaps a half-hour to remove some
 zero-ohm SMD resistors and solder in a few header strips.  The simple
procedure
 is described and illustrated here: www.ad6a.com/Z3801A.html 

You don't need the header strip.   There are empty slots waiting for some of

the 0-ohm jumpers you have to remove.

I think they are the three to the right of the circle in figure-13 of the 
above URL.  You can work out which is which by following the traces or using

an ohm-meter.

Here is another URL in case you want a second opinion:
  http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/Z3801AReceiverModifications


-- 
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.  I hate spam.




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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Sale

[Jim Lux]

On 3/31/12 8:21 AM, Eric Lemmon wrote:

Hal,

The beauty of the header strips is that the Z3801A can easily and quickly be
converted back to RS-422 in the future, without having to partially
dismantle the unit and do more soldering- again.



true, but you have to remove the board from the case to solder in header 
strips. you can jumper the pads and remove the 422 jumpers entirely from 
the top.


And let's be realistic, you buy a surplus Z3801 and modify for your own 
purposes to have a RS232.  Are you really going to change it back any 
time in the next 5-10 years?


It's not like if you sell it, someone will desperately need it in the 
stock condition and not be willing to open it up themselves and move the 
jumpers back.  They're buying surplus, after all.


I can't see ever changing mine back.  I could see going in and modifying 
it to put a USB/serial dongle inside, so it would have a USB jack on it, 
since serial ports are become less common.


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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Sale

[Jim Lux]

On 3/31/12 3:24 PM, Hal Murray wrote:


jim...@earthlink.net said:

I can't see ever changing mine back.  I could see going in and modifying  it
to put a USB/serial dongle inside, so it would have a USB jack on it,  since
serial ports are become less common.


I have several USB-Serial dongles.   I can't see bothering to install one
inside a Z3801A.




It's more a matter of reducing bench clutter..a Type B USB (mini or 
maxi) jack on the box so you can hook up a laptop, as opposed to 
carrying around another dongle.


But you're right.. I could just leave it hanging on the back connected 
to the 25-9 pin adapter.


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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Sale

[Eric Lemmon]

Larry,

There really is nothing much to this modification.  The Z3801A is already
designed to easily work on either interface, but most units are configured
for RS-422 as the default.  It takes perhaps a half-hour to remove a few
zero-ohm SMD resistors and solder in a header strip.  The simple procedure
is described and illustrated here:
www.ad6a.com/Z3801A.html

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Larry McDavid
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 8:44 PM
To: Timenuts
Subject: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Sale

On 2/16/2012 Brad Stockdale announced here on Time-Nuts that he had a HP 
Z3801A GPSDO for sale. I corresponded with Brad several times and he 
reported that he sold one Z3801A to a list member and that this unit had 
been modified to provide RS-232 rather than RS-422.

Brian subsequently sold me another Z3801A that was not modified to 
provide RS-232 communication; I have not yet received that Z3801A.

I would like to correspond off-list with the buyer of the modified 
Z3801A; I will appreciate a contact to my email address used here.

-- 
Best wishes,

Larry McDavid W6FUB
Anaheim, CA  (20 miles southeast of Los Angeles, near Disneyland)

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Sale

[Jim Lux]

On 3/30/12 8:43 PM, Larry McDavid wrote:

On 2/16/2012 Brad Stockdale announced here on Time-Nuts that he had a HP
Z3801A GPSDO for sale. I corresponded with Brad several times and he
reported that he sold one Z3801A to a list member and that this unit had
been modified to provide RS-232 rather than RS-422.

Brian subsequently sold me another Z3801A that was not modified to
provide RS-232 communication; I have not yet received that Z3801A.

I would like to correspond off-list with the buyer of the modified
Z3801A; I will appreciate a contact to my email address used here.



The mod is trivial.  3 jumpers on a set of pads for dip switches at the 
back of the PC board.


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[time-nuts] HP Z3801A, GPS vs UTC?

[Ron Hahn (EI2JP)]

On 6/7/2011 10:40 PM, cook michael wrote:
 Le 07/06/2011 21:15, r...@lcs.mit.edu a écrit :
 I have an HP 58503A. It has an Option H14,H19 sticker on the back. The
 circuit board has 58503-60001 Rev C stamped on it. It has been running
 continuously and locked to GPS for a few days, and it knows the correct
 number of seconds between GPS and UTC.

 The unit displays GPS time, without the leap seconds correction. The
 front-panel display says GPS xx:yy:zz, and :system:status? says GPS
 1PPS Synchronized to GPS Time, not to UTC as the manual shows.

 I'd be much obliged if anyone could tell me how to get the unit
 to display UTC instead of GPS time.
 I think these use a similar command set to the Z3801A
 try
 :diag:gps:utc?should show 0 if the unit is in GPS,
 1 if UTC
 if that gives coherent results, try
 :diag:gps:utc 1
 to force the mode
Colleagues,

For someone who is not understanding these modes, can you explain what
is this difference between UTC and GPS time?  I have a HP Z3801A which I
have been using for some years.  Do I need to change this to UTC time?

Thanks,

Ron

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A, GPS vs UTC?

[jmfranke]

GPS time differs from UTC by the number of leap seconds accumulated since 
the start of GPS time. Reseting the GPS clocks each time a leap second 
occurs would upset the code generators. The satellites stay in GPS time but 
do transmit the difference between UTC and GPS time to allow receivers to 
make the conversion. If your time display is in sync with the seconds time 
signal from WWV or CHU, your system is set to display UTC. GPS time is 
currently ahead of UTC by 15 seconds. Each time a leap second is added, UTC 
falls one more second behind GPS time. If a leap second is subtracted, UTC 
will move closer to GPS time.

See: http://leapsecond.com/java/gpsclock.htm

John  WA4WDL

--
From: Ron Hahn (EI2JP) ei...@dhco.org
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 8:11 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A, GPS vs UTC?


On 6/7/2011 10:40 PM, cook michael wrote:

Le 07/06/2011 21:15, r...@lcs.mit.edu a écrit :

I have an HP 58503A. It has an Option H14,H19 sticker on the back. The
circuit board has 58503-60001 Rev C stamped on it. It has been running
continuously and locked to GPS for a few days, and it knows the correct
number of seconds between GPS and UTC.

The unit displays GPS time, without the leap seconds correction. The
front-panel display says GPS xx:yy:zz, and :system:status? says GPS
1PPS Synchronized to GPS Time, not to UTC as the manual shows.

I'd be much obliged if anyone could tell me how to get the unit
to display UTC instead of GPS time.

I think these use a similar command set to the Z3801A
try
:diag:gps:utc?should show 0 if the unit is in GPS,
1 if UTC
if that gives coherent results, try
:diag:gps:utc 1
to force the mode

Colleagues,

For someone who is not understanding these modes, can you explain what
is this difference between UTC and GPS time?  I have a HP Z3801A which I
have been using for some years.  Do I need to change this to UTC time?

Thanks,

Ron

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A, GPS vs UTC?

[Magnus Danielson]

On 06/11/2011 02:11 PM, Ron Hahn (EI2JP) wrote:

On 6/7/2011 10:40 PM, cook michael wrote:

Le 07/06/2011 21:15, r...@lcs.mit.edu a écrit :

I have an HP 58503A. It has an Option H14,H19 sticker on the back. The
circuit board has 58503-60001 Rev C stamped on it. It has been running
continuously and locked to GPS for a few days, and it knows the correct
number of seconds between GPS and UTC.

The unit displays GPS time, without the leap seconds correction. The
front-panel display says GPS xx:yy:zz, and :system:status? says GPS
1PPS Synchronized to GPS Time, not to UTC as the manual shows.

I'd be much obliged if anyone could tell me how to get the unit
to display UTC instead of GPS time.

I think these use a similar command set to the Z3801A
try
:diag:gps:utc?should show 0 if the unit is in GPS,
1 if UTC
if that gives coherent results, try
:diag:gps:utc 1
to force the mode

Colleagues,

For someone who is not understanding these modes, can you explain what
is this difference between UTC and GPS time?  I have a HP Z3801A which I
have been using for some years.  Do I need to change this to UTC time?


If you only wish a 10 MHz and PPS, no. GPS time will do just as well.
If you also want UTC time for NTP server for instance, then you do want 
either to use the UTC mode or let the server know it runs on GPS time 
and compensate itself.


Cheers,
Magnus

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A, GPS vs UTC?, NTP

[Ron Hahn (EI2JP)]

On 6/11/2011 2:47 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote:
 On 06/11/2011 02:11 PM, Ron Hahn (EI2JP) wrote:
 On 6/7/2011 10:40 PM, cook michael wrote:
 Le 07/06/2011 21:15, r...@lcs.mit.edu a écrit :
 I have an HP 58503A. It has an Option H14,H19 sticker on the
 back. The
 circuit board has 58503-60001 Rev C stamped on it. It has been
 running
 continuously and locked to GPS for a few days, and it knows the
 correct
 number of seconds between GPS and UTC.

 The unit displays GPS time, without the leap seconds correction. The
 front-panel display says GPS xx:yy:zz, and :system:status? says
 GPS
 1PPS Synchronized to GPS Time, not to UTC as the manual shows.

 I'd be much obliged if anyone could tell me how to get the unit
 to display UTC instead of GPS time.
 I think these use a similar command set to the Z3801A
 try
 :diag:gps:utc?should show 0 if the unit is in GPS,
 1 if UTC
 if that gives coherent results, try
 :diag:gps:utc 1
 to force the mode
 Colleagues,

 For someone who is not understanding these modes, can you explain what
 is this difference between UTC and GPS time?  I have a HP Z3801A which I
 have been using for some years.  Do I need to change this to UTC time?

 If you only wish a 10 MHz and PPS, no. GPS time will do just as well.
 If you also want UTC time for NTP server for instance, then you do
 want either to use the UTC mode or let the server know it runs on GPS
 time and compensate itself.

Magnus,

I am interested in UTC time for weather satellite reception,
synchronising via NTP.  I tried the GPSCON program for the Z3801A but
could never get it to broadcast ntp information on my LAN.  Recently, I
have purchased some Sure GPS boards from Sure Electronics
(http://www.sureelectronics.net/goods.php?id=99).  David Taylor has a
great page on this at http://satsignal.eu/ntp/Sure-GPS.htm ... but now I
am thinking his time is maybe always 15 seconds off, yes??

R

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A, GPS vs UTC?, NTP

[Magnus Danielson]

Ron,


Magnus,

I am interested in UTC time for weather satellite reception,
synchronising via NTP.  I tried the GPSCON program for the Z3801A but
could never get it to broadcast ntp information on my LAN.  Recently, I
have purchased some Sure GPS boards from Sure Electronics
(http://www.sureelectronics.net/goods.php?id=99).  David Taylor has a
great page on this at http://satsignal.eu/ntp/Sure-GPS.htm ... but now I
am thinking his time is maybe always 15 seconds off, yes??


No, as far as I recall it the Sure GPS board always default to UTC time. 
Neat little board.


You should be able to use the NTP from ntp.org (or whatever source you 
like) to achieve it with either the Z3801A or the Sure GPS. Need to set 
something like that up again, been ages since I tried it last.


Since 15 seconds is easy to observe you can always use NTP to any of the 
public servers (NTP pool, any fellow time-nut) just to get UTC time to a 
computer and just comparing reading will suffice... :)


Cheers,
Magnus

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A, GPS vs UTC?, NTP

[David J Taylor]

Magnus,

I am interested in UTC time for weather satellite reception,
synchronising via NTP.  I tried the GPSCON program for the Z3801A but
could never get it to broadcast ntp information on my LAN.  Recently, I
have purchased some Sure GPS boards from Sure Electronics
(http://www.sureelectronics.net/goods.php?id=99).  David Taylor has a
great page on this at http://satsignal.eu/ntp/Sure-GPS.htm ... but now I
am thinking his time is maybe always 15 seconds off, yes??

R


Ron,

No, the time is UTC and not GPS, so it's correct and not 15s out.  To be 
sure (and as is good practice in any case), do include an Internet server 
or two in your ntp.conf file.  Something like this:


# ref-clock drivers - Sure Electronics GPS board
server  127.127.22.1minpoll 4
server  127.127.20.1minpoll 4  mode 18  prefer

# Use specific NTP servers
server  0.uk.pool.ntp.org   minpoll 10
server  1.uk.pool.ntp.org   minpoll 10
server  0.nl.pool.ntp.org   minpoll 10
server  1.nl.pool.ntp.org   minpoll 10

You can use ntpq -p to check the offset of the Sure board relative to 
the Internet servers.


Thanks for letting me know that the Web pages were helpful.

73,
David
--
SatSignal software - quality software written to your requirements
Web:  http://www.satsignal.eu
Email:  david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk 



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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A, GPS vs UTC?

[J. L. Trantham]

I have been wondering about this.

Since leap seconds accumulate from time to time, there must be a
'difference' between GPS and UTC.  Is the difference related to the rotation
of the earth around it's axis and around the sun and thus the need to add a
second or so from time to time as we do with leap year or is there a
difference in the reference oscillator frequency between the two that allows
a 'drift' of a second or so from time to time?  I suspect the former.

Joe



-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Magnus Danielson
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 8:47 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A, GPS vs UTC?


On 06/11/2011 02:11 PM, Ron Hahn (EI2JP) wrote:
 On 6/7/2011 10:40 PM, cook michael wrote:
 Le 07/06/2011 21:15, r...@lcs.mit.edu a écrit :
 I have an HP 58503A. It has an Option H14,H19 sticker on the back. 
 The circuit board has 58503-60001 Rev C stamped on it. It has been 
 running continuously and locked to GPS for a few days, and it knows 
 the correct number of seconds between GPS and UTC.

 The unit displays GPS time, without the leap seconds correction. The 
 front-panel display says GPS xx:yy:zz, and :system:status? says 
 GPS 1PPS Synchronized to GPS Time, not to UTC as the manual 
 shows.

 I'd be much obliged if anyone could tell me how to get the unit to 
 display UTC instead of GPS time.
 I think these use a similar command set to the Z3801A
 try
 :diag:gps:utc?should show 0 if the unit is in GPS,
 1 if UTC
 if that gives coherent results, try
 :diag:gps:utc 1
 to force the mode
 Colleagues,

 For someone who is not understanding these modes, can you explain what 
 is this difference between UTC and GPS time?  I have a HP Z3801A which 
 I have been using for some years.  Do I need to change this to UTC 
 time?

If you only wish a 10 MHz and PPS, no. GPS time will do just as well. If you
also want UTC time for NTP server for instance, then you do want 
either to use the UTC mode or let the server know it runs on GPS time 
and compensate itself.

Cheers,
Magnus

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A, GPS vs UTC?

[jmfranke]

The former.

John  WA4WDL

--
From: J. L. Trantham jlt...@att.net
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 4:16 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' 
time-nuts@febo.com

Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A, GPS vs UTC?


I have been wondering about this.

Since leap seconds accumulate from time to time, there must be a
'difference' between GPS and UTC.  Is the difference related to the 
rotation
of the earth around it's axis and around the sun and thus the need to add 
a

second or so from time to time as we do with leap year or is there a
difference in the reference oscillator frequency between the two that 
allows

a 'drift' of a second or so from time to time?  I suspect the former.

Joe



-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Magnus Danielson
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 8:47 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A, GPS vs UTC?


On 06/11/2011 02:11 PM, Ron Hahn (EI2JP) wrote:

On 6/7/2011 10:40 PM, cook michael wrote:

Le 07/06/2011 21:15, r...@lcs.mit.edu a écrit :

I have an HP 58503A. It has an Option H14,H19 sticker on the back.
The circuit board has 58503-60001 Rev C stamped on it. It has been
running continuously and locked to GPS for a few days, and it knows
the correct number of seconds between GPS and UTC.

The unit displays GPS time, without the leap seconds correction. The
front-panel display says GPS xx:yy:zz, and :system:status? says
GPS 1PPS Synchronized to GPS Time, not to UTC as the manual
shows.

I'd be much obliged if anyone could tell me how to get the unit to
display UTC instead of GPS time.

I think these use a similar command set to the Z3801A
try
:diag:gps:utc?should show 0 if the unit is in GPS,
1 if UTC
if that gives coherent results, try
:diag:gps:utc 1
to force the mode

Colleagues,

For someone who is not understanding these modes, can you explain what
is this difference between UTC and GPS time?  I have a HP Z3801A which
I have been using for some years.  Do I need to change this to UTC
time?


If you only wish a 10 MHz and PPS, no. GPS time will do just as well. If 
you

also want UTC time for NTP server for instance, then you do want
either to use the UTC mode or let the server know it runs on GPS time
and compensate itself.

Cheers,
Magnus

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[time-nuts] HP-z3801a GPS reference receiver

[Rasputin Novgorod]

Hi all:

I've been using a HP-z3801a GPS reference receiver and the
GPSCon software for my own SNTP time server. Both have 
worked well, and I am very pleased; better than the 
windows machine it is on.

I'd like to move it to a Linux machine. Is anyone aware of
simular Linux software for the HP-z3801a?

Sincerely,
/blair


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Re: [time-nuts] HP-z3801a GPS reference receiver

[Hal Murray]

 I've been using a HP-z3801a GPS reference receiver and the GPSCon
 software for my own SNTP time server. Both have  worked well, and I am
 very pleased; better than the  windows machine it is on.

 I'd like to move it to a Linux machine. Is anyone aware of simular
 Linux software for the HP-z3801a?

I don't know what GPScon does or what you want to do.

ntpd supports the Z3801A.

If you want good timekeeping, you need the PPS mods to the kernel.  I've lost 
track of where to get them and/or how well they work with recent kernels.

You might have better luck with FreeBSD.  PPS is well supported.

If you want to see the status display page, I don't know of a simple way to 
get that with ntpd.  It has the option to dump the status screen to a log 
file.  (I've never tried it, just looked at the code.)  It shouldn't be hard 
to write a hack to watch the log file and display the latest status page.

That would use up a lot of disk space, ballpark 3 GB per day, so you would 
probably want a cron job to automate deleting/archiving/compressing the log 
files.



-- 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP-z3801a GPS reference receiver

[Rasputin Novgorod]

  I've been using a HP-z3801a GPS reference receiver and
 the GPSCon
  software for my own SNTP time server. Both have 
 worked well, and I am
  very pleased; better than the  windows machine it is on.
 
  I'd like to move it to a Linux machine. Is anyone
  aware of simular Linux software for the HP-z3801a?
 
 I don't know what GPScon does or what you want to do.

http://www.realhamradio.com/gpscon-info.htm
/b


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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Question

[tomknox]

Hi Everyone;
Please excuse me, I am jumping in a little late. This Fury unit is  
interesting, Is the price reasonable? Which MTI oscillator do they  
use? the 5MHz 260-0504? To expand things a bit, how do the Fury,  
Z3801A, Z3805A, Z3811A, Z3816A, 58503A and 58503B compare?  I just  
picked up a Z3811A and plan to characterize it this weekend. If anyone  
is interested I will list results. It has the same 5MHz MTI 260-0624  
that the Z3805A has? Does anyone have specs for this version of the 260?
Best Wishes;
Thomas Knox




Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hello Ernie,

 Glad your HP is still working well.

 Well it seems you found out how well the Fury is working with an excellent
 OCXO :)

 The unit running in Mexico achieves similar performance with our standard
 double oven OCXO, see for example:

_http://resco.ucol.mx/Fury/gpsstat.htm_
 (http://resco.ucol.mx/Fury/gpsstat.htm)

 It has not jumped in several days, and the standard deviation is between
 1.7ns to 1.8ns when it doesen't jump during the last 24 hours.

 Yes, the TI as displayed by GPSCon is much better than the HP  unit. I think
 this is mostly due to the much better GPS receiver in the Fury,  since the
 OCXO of the HP unit is extremely good.

 Tom and I had discussions about this being caused by the small  sawtooth
 low-pass filtering we do on the TI intervall (Z3801A does the same  thing,
 otherwise you would see the full GPS Sawtooth). The theory was that  
 this  was what
 was causing the Fury to be so much better on GPSCon.

 To check this, we modified the firmware to completely remove this sawtooth
 filtering, and output the raw data instead, with all the nasty sawtooth
 artifacts on it.

 This did not change the result much, I think the max range went from  +/-10ns
 to +/-15ns if I remember correctly.

 So even if we display true raw capture data, we are still significantly
 better than the Z3801A which displays low-pass sawtooth filtered data.

 I think this can mostly be attributed to the extremely good  performance of
 the M12M GPS compared to the Oncore GPS in the HP unit.

 Also, I think you will see that your HP unit will get better over time, as
 the Crystal retraces and ages over the next weeks, and the control voltage
 changes will hopefully get to be smaller and smaller on your unit.

 bye,
 Said


 In a message dated 11/13/2008 14:38:57 Pacific Standard Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 But both  unit , the HP and the FURY board running under the same
 software  simultaneously / GPS Con / and I was mentioning the same small
 windows  TI to GPS, and the FURY displays much better figures then
 HP.but  probably each units gives out / display / different
 data??
 Also the  graphic display / BLUE / on the FURY board the max ampl
 between +2,2nsec  and -2,0nsec sometimes +0,7nsec ,
 -1,7nsec...
 the HP unit never goes  under +15nsec and -20nsec.. almost 10 times
 worse.
 Anyhow I am  happy because it seems to me that the HP is still OK after
 3 years of  sleep.

 Rgsa Ernie.

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Question

[Björn Gabrielsson]

On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 05:44 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello,
 
 I am running the HP Z3801A after a long time again, more then 150hrs 
 from the new ON status but I have never seen
 on the  TI to GPS  small window better figure then 1,5E-9. the 
 avarage is 1,3E-8 and seldom goes to 10E-9.
 And running parallel the FURY board with a TEMEX OCXO and displays 
 +1,6E-10 is the average very often 10E-11 and sometimes for a relative 
 short time / 4-5 min / 1,4E-12.

Are you comparing apples with apples?  some nanoseconds error in _phase_
(time) seem reasonable (for the HP) . A _frequency_ error in the range
of 1E-10 to 1E-12 is also reasonable (for the FURY).

But then I have neither of the units you compare, so I could have
misunderstood your issue.

--

   Björn


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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Question

[ernieperes]

Hello,

I am running the HP Z3801A after a long time again, more then 150hrs 
from the new ON status but I have never seen
on the  TI to GPS  small window better figure then 1,5E-9. the 
avarage is 1,3E-8 and seldom goes to 10E-9.
And running parallel the FURY board with a TEMEX OCXO and displays 
+1,6E-10 is the average very often 10E-11 and sometimes for a relative 
short time / 4-5 min / 1,4E-12.


Any idea why the Z3801A not displaying better figure?? Something wrong 
with the HP unit


Thanks Ernie.



GPS Status.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Question

[ernieperes]

Hi Björn,

According to HP spec sheet It should be better then just a few 1,5E10-9.

Rgds Ernie.


-Original Message-
From: Björn Gabrielsson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:35 pm
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Question



On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 05:44 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello,

 I am running the HP Z3801A after a long time again, more then 150hrs
 from the new ON status but I have never seen
 on the  TI to GPS  small window better figure then 1,5E-9. the
 avarage is 1,3E-8 and seldom goes to 10E-9.
 And running parallel the FURY board with a TEMEX OCXO and displays
 +1,6E-10 is the average very often 10E-11 and sometimes for a 
relative
 short time / 4-5 min / 1,4E-12.

Are you comparing apples with apples?  some nanoseconds error in _phase_
(time) seem reasonable (for the HP) . A _frequency_ error in the range
of 1E-10 to 1E-12 is also reasonable (for the FURY).

But then I have neither of the units you compare, so I could have
misunderstood your issue.

--

   Björn


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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Question

[Björn Gabrielsson]

On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 10:14 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Björn,
 
 According to HP spec sheet It should be better then just a few 1,5E10-9.
 
 Rgds Ernie.

In phase or frequency?

--

   Björn


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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Question

[Brian Kirby]

You may be interpting it wrong, if your looking at the 1PPS to GPS, 
thats a time interval measurement referenced to the GPS 1PPS.  -1.5x10-9 
would be 1.5 nanosecond...so 1.5ns over 10 seconds would be 1.5x10-10 
Allan Variance compared to GPS

I do not remember, we made measurements several years ago, I believe the 
Z3801 takes 10 second time interval averages and it updates the 
oscillator via the DAC every 30 seconds, if needed.

There information out there on the unit, either here at Febo.com or 
http://realhamradio.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi buried in the archives..

Brian




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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Question

[SAIDJACK]

Hello Ernie,
 
as Bjoern mentioned I think the HP is indicating Time Interval between GPS  
and OCXO 1PPS in nanoseconds, while the Fury is indicating estimated frequency  
accuracy, a unitless number.
 
The Fury is showing estimated average frequency error over the last 1000  
seconds, similar to AVAR 1000s.
 
You can run GPScon on Fury too, and should be able to compare against the  
graphic you did for the HP unit.
 
Or you could set the LCD of the Fury to show Time Interval to UTC, or probe  
this time interval to UTC with the command ptim:tint? that will return the  
offset in nanoseconds as well.
 
An offset of +/-50ns to UTC seems to be normal for the HP unit. On the  Fury, 
I would expect this to be +/-10ns on a good OCXO.
 
To the benefit of the Z3801A unit: if the HP unit indicates a larger  offset, 
it may also be because it's internal GPS is not as good as the Fury  GPSDO 
receiver. It does not necessarily mean the OCXO is causing the error, it  could 
be that the HP GPS is causing the error, and the HP OCXO is  still dead-on 
because it filters out its higher GPS errors.
 
bye,
Said
 
 
In a message dated 11/13/2008 02:45:57 Pacific Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

And  running parallel the FURY board with a TEMEX OCXO and displays 
+1,6E-10 is  the average very often 10E-11 and sometimes for a relative 
short time /  4-5 min / 1,4E-12.

Any idea why the Z3801A not displaying better  figure?? Something wrong 
with the HP unit

Thanks  Ernie.


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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Question

[ernieperes]

Hello Said,

Thanks for the detailed reply, it makes sense.
But both unit , the HP and the FURY board running under the same 
software simultaneously / GPS Con / and I was mentioning the same small 
windows TI to GPS, and the FURY displays much better figures then 
HP.but probably each units gives out / display / different 
data??
Also the graphic display / BLUE / on the FURY board the max ampl 
between +2,2nsec and -2,0nsec sometimes +0,7nsec ,
-1,7nsec...
the HP unit never goes under +15nsec and -20nsec.. almost 10 times 
worse.
Anyhow I am happy because it seems to me that the HP is still OK after 
3 years of sleep.

Rgsa Ernie.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 10:41 pm
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Question



Hello Ernie,

as Bjoern mentioned I think the HP is indicating Time Interval between 
GPS
and OCXO 1PPS in nanoseconds, while the Fury is indicating estimated 
frequency
accuracy, a unitless number.

The Fury is showing estimated average frequency error over the last 
1000
seconds, similar to AVAR 1000s.

You can run GPScon on Fury too, and should be able to compare against 
the
graphic you did for the HP unit.

Or you could set the LCD of the Fury to show Time Interval to UTC, or 
probe
this time interval to UTC with the command ptim:tint? that will return 
the
offset in nanoseconds as well.

An offset of +/-50ns to UTC seems to be normal for the HP unit. On the 
Fury,
I would expect this to be +/-10ns on a good OCXO.

To the benefit of the Z3801A unit: if the HP unit indicates a larger 
offset,
it may also be because it's internal GPS is not as good as the Fury 
GPSDO
receiver. It does not necessarily mean the OCXO is causing the error, 
it could
be that the HP GPS is causing the error, and the HP OCXO is still 
dead-on
because it filters out its higher GPS errors.

bye,
Said


In a message dated 11/13/2008 02:45:57 Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

And running parallel the FURY board with a TEMEX OCXO and displays
+1,6E-10 is the average very often 10E-11 and sometimes for a relative
short time / 4-5 min / 1,4E-12.

Any idea why the Z3801A not displaying better figure?? Something wrong
with the HP unit

Thanks Ernie.


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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Question

[SAIDJACK]

Hello Ernie,
 
Glad your HP is still working well.
 
Well it seems you found out how well the Fury is working with an excellent  
OCXO :)
 
The unit running in Mexico achieves similar performance with our standard  
double oven OCXO, see for example:
 
   _http://resco.ucol.mx/Fury/gpsstat.htm_ 
(http://resco.ucol.mx/Fury/gpsstat.htm) 
 
It has not jumped in several days, and the standard deviation is between  
1.7ns to 1.8ns when it doesen't jump during the last 24 hours.
 
Yes, the TI as displayed by GPSCon is much better than the HP  unit. I think 
this is mostly due to the much better GPS receiver in the Fury,  since the 
OCXO of the HP unit is extremely good.
 
Tom and I had discussions about this being caused by the small  sawtooth 
low-pass filtering we do on the TI intervall (Z3801A does the same  thing, 
otherwise you would see the full GPS Sawtooth). The theory was that this  was 
what 
was causing the Fury to be so much better on GPSCon.
 
To check this, we modified the firmware to completely remove this sawtooth  
filtering, and output the raw data instead, with all the nasty sawtooth  
artifacts on it.

This did not change the result much, I think the max range went from  +/-10ns 
to +/-15ns if I remember correctly.
 
So even if we display true raw capture data, we are still significantly  
better than the Z3801A which displays low-pass sawtooth filtered data.
 
I think this can mostly be attributed to the extremely good  performance of 
the M12M GPS compared to the Oncore GPS in the HP unit.
 
Also, I think you will see that your HP unit will get better over time, as  
the Crystal retraces and ages over the next weeks, and the control voltage  
changes will hopefully get to be smaller and smaller on your unit.
 
bye,
Said
 
 
In a message dated 11/13/2008 14:38:57 Pacific Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

But both  unit , the HP and the FURY board running under the same 
software  simultaneously / GPS Con / and I was mentioning the same small 
windows  TI to GPS, and the FURY displays much better figures then 
HP.but  probably each units gives out / display / different 
data??
Also the  graphic display / BLUE / on the FURY board the max ampl 
between +2,2nsec  and -2,0nsec sometimes +0,7nsec ,
-1,7nsec...
the HP unit never goes  under +15nsec and -20nsec.. almost 10 times 
worse.
Anyhow I am  happy because it seems to me that the HP is still OK after 
3 years of  sleep.

Rgsa Ernie.

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP receiver...

[Peter Vince]

I have bought a number of different items from that seller (fluke.I), 
and have found him very friendly, helpful, and trustworthy.  See my 
previous message about contact phone numbers - let him have it - it's 
in your own interest.

Regards,

Peter Vince  (G8ZZR, London, England)


Based on Larry's comments below, I ordered two of these and paid for them
with PP. Now I just got an email from the seller asking for my cell phone
number for their postal service. Anybody else on here who bought any of
these get the same request? I have purchased an ebay item from China in the
recent past, a lot more expensive, and bigger and a lot heavier than these
boards and they did not ask for my cell number. I would appreciate any
advise. Regards - Mike

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP Firmware Dates

[randy warner]

 Larry,

Et al,

So long as the unit is a VP, the firmare date should not matter. The last
firmware for the VP was v10.0 and was released in 1997, but all VP firmware
will work with the HP's. As you can see from the TAC32 screenshot on Ebay
the receiver being used was a 6 channel VP with v8.4 firmware. This was the
standard configuration for the timing community back then. The straight
MCX connector plugged directly into the motherboard connector instead of
going to a cable. If these are coming from China I am guessing that they are
decommisioning a lot of the old Lucent cell-sites.

A note about the connector: Unless you have REALLY good soldering equipment
and know how to use it, do not try to remove the connector. The ground plane
in the board makes removal very difficult, especially in the B4xx and B8xx
receivers. When I was working with these I normally just soldered a piece of
RG174 on equivalent to the connector pins on the back side. If you do this
you cannot have any service loop. The terminations to the connector pins
must be as short as possible.

Initial delays in acquisition are normally due to the receivers being
inactive for long periods of time. If the oscillator characteristics change
a lot during long periods of inactivity it can take over an hour for your
initial fix. Once the new characteristics have been loaded into EEPROM your
acq times should go back to normal. I wrote a paper on this many years ago
when I was working at Synergy. Does anyone have a copy they would be willing
to post?

Randy Warner



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 9:52 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP receive...

Mike et al:

The first two Motorola Oncore-VP RX's I bought from that eBay seller were
shipped by TNT courier service, about $30 cost, to my work address with
about a 5 or 6 day delivery time.  The seller provided a tracking number and
I was able to follow the shipment's progress.  It spent about two days hung
up for custom's clearance.  The seller's current eBay Oncore-VP listing uses
Hong Kong's Air Mail Service, presumably handed off to USPS, at a much lower
cost than TNT.  On my second order for the Oncore-VP with this seller he
didn't like my PO Box address that I use for Snail Mail and so I gave him my
work address again.  He also wanted my mobile phone number, but I gave my
work phone number.  I thought it a bit odd that he said that Hong Kong Air
Mail Service didn't like PO boxes...  I don't know why that would be since
they aren't actually delivering it in the US.  Anyway, I've still got two
weeks to go before expecting delivery on the second order.  Oddly, the
seller said to my inquiry about tracking numbers that Hong Kong Air Mail
Service does provide a tracking number -- but I've not been able to get it
from the seller.  So far he has a 100% feedback rating and he sure gave me
good service on the first order.  

Further, he has software available for the receivers, but you need to ask
for it per the instructions in his eBay listing.  

As always with eBay its Caveat Emptor.  He does have PP Buyer Protection
so along with his 100% feedback rating I'm not too worried.  I can tell you
that I was greatly relieved when the two receivers fired up FB in my Z3801A!
It did take awhile, even with a position initialization fix, for them to
find
the birds, then get current GPS time, etc.   

As an FYI, be aware (at least in my Z3801A), that the Z3801A's motherboard
firmware doesn't like dates after Dec 31st, 2007.  So if you try to
initialize the Z3801A with a current date it may complain that its out of
range.  Maybe mine has old firmware and newer units won't complain?  I
dunno.  It doesn't seem to be a problem -- just slows down the initial
acquisition...

Note that it doesn't complain about the current date when acquired by GPS
sats -- just the input routine for PC provided dates complains.  

--Larry, W7JYJ 

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[time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP Firmware Dates

[vendors]

Randy et al:

Thanks, Randy, for the history lesson on the VPs and their firmware.  

My previous firmware comment, however, was directed at the Z3801A's 
motherboard firmware, not the VP's firmware.  This is because my Z3801A won't
take a manually entered date after Dec 31st, 2007.  With a 2008 date I get an 
out of range (or something like that) error msg back.  The VP doesn't seem to
have any problems with 2008 dates from the GPS birds.  And once the Z3801A 
gets up and running with current date/time/position all is good.  

Tnx very much for the input RF connector info!  I think some washers may be 
able to space the VP a little higher to allow enough clearance for the cable 
connector on the straight RF input connector without hitting the IC underneath
it on the motherboard, but I've not yet tried this.  

--Larry, W7JYJ  

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP Firmware Dates

[randy warner]

Larry,

Not a problem. The VP works fine with current dates. The ones you have to
look out for are back in the original v6.x firmware days. Because of their
programming the were not capable of handling the 1024 week rollover. 

Randy 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 2:13 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP Firmware Dates

Randy et al:

Thanks, Randy, for the history lesson on the VPs and their firmware.  

My previous firmware comment, however, was directed at the Z3801A's
motherboard firmware, not the VP's firmware.  This is because my Z3801A
won't take a manually entered date after Dec 31st, 2007.  With a 2008 date I
get an out of range (or something like that) error msg back.  The VP
doesn't seem to have any problems with 2008 dates from the GPS birds.  And
once the Z3801A gets up and running with current date/time/position all is
good.  

Tnx very much for the input RF connector info!  I think some washers may be
able to space the VP a little higher to allow enough clearance for the cable
connector on the straight RF input connector without hitting the IC
underneath it on the motherboard, but I've not yet tried this.  

--Larry, W7JYJ  

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP receiver...

[Mike Feher]

Based on Larry's comments below, I ordered two of these and paid for them
with PP. Now I just got an email from the seller asking for my cell phone
number for their postal service. Anybody else on here who bought any of
these get the same request? I have purchased an ebay item from China in the
recent past, a lot more expensive, and bigger and a lot heavier than these
boards and they did not ask for my cell number. I would appreciate any
advise. Regards - Mike

 
 
Mike B. Feher, N4FS
89 Arnold Blvd.
Howell, NJ, 07731
732-886-5960
 
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 9:14 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP receiver...

All:

There's a guy on eBay that has multiple Motorola Oncore-VP receivers for
sale that are mostly compatible with the HP Z3801A, in case you are 
looking to replace a dead RX or want a spare.  I bought two of them 
from the seller and have checked them both out in my Z3801A and they 
work.  The one difference is that they have a straight RF input connector
rather than the right-angle connector.  Because of this the ant cable 
connector hits a chip on the motherboard and the RX can't be screwed all 
the way down on the mounting posts.  One can easily replace the connector
or possibly flip it to the other side of the board.   The eBay seller 
has the receivers listed in lots of two for $57, plus about $12 shipping 
to the US.  Last I looked, he had 24 lots (of two) still available.  To 
find the listing search on Motorola Oncore or Oncore VP.  

--Larry, W7JYJ 

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP receiver...

[Chuck Harris]

A lot of shippers require a telephone number for shipping.  FedEx, DHL, and
UPS for their premium services.

Give them your office number.

-Chuck Harris

Mike Feher wrote:
 Based on Larry's comments below, I ordered two of these and paid for them
 with PP. Now I just got an email from the seller asking for my cell phone
 number for their postal service. Anybody else on here who bought any of
 these get the same request? I have purchased an ebay item from China in the
 recent past, a lot more expensive, and bigger and a lot heavier than these
 boards and they did not ask for my cell number. I would appreciate any
 advise. Regards - Mike

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[time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP receive...

[vendors]

Mike et al:

The first two Motorola Oncore-VP RX's I bought from that eBay seller were 
shipped by TNT courier service, about $30 cost, to my work address with about
a 5 or 6 day delivery time.  The seller provided a tracking number and I was 
able to follow the shipment's progress.  It spent about two days hung up for
custom's clearance.  The seller's current eBay Oncore-VP listing uses Hong
Kong's Air Mail Service, presumably handed off to USPS, at a much lower cost
than TNT.  On my second order for the Oncore-VP with this seller he didn't 
like my PO Box address that I use for Snail Mail and so I gave him my work 
address again.  He also wanted my mobile phone number, but I gave my work 
phone number.  I thought it a bit odd that he said that Hong Kong Air Mail 
Service didn't like PO boxes...  I don't know why that would be since they 
aren't actually delivering it in the US.  Anyway, I've still got two weeks to
go before expecting delivery on the second order.  Oddly, the seller said 
to my inquiry about tracking numbers that Hong Kong Air Mail Service does 
provide a tracking number -- but I've not been able to get it from the 
seller.  So far he has a 100% feedback rating and he sure gave me good 
service on the first order.  

Further, he has software available for the receivers, but you need to ask 
for it per the instructions in his eBay listing.  

As always with eBay its Caveat Emptor.  He does have PP Buyer Protection
so along with his 100% feedback rating I'm not too worried.  I can tell you 
that I was greatly relieved when the two receivers fired up FB in my Z3801A!
It did take awhile, even with a position initialization fix, for them to find
the birds, then get current GPS time, etc.   

As an FYI, be aware (at least in my Z3801A), that the Z3801A's motherboard
firmware doesn't like dates after Dec 31st, 2007.  So if you try to initialize
the Z3801A with a current date it may complain that its out of range.  Maybe
mine has old firmware and newer units won't complain?  I dunno.  It doesn't 
seem to be a problem -- just slows down the initial acquisition...

Note that it doesn't complain about the current date when acquired by GPS 
sats -- just the input routine for PC provided dates complains.  

--Larry, W7JYJ 

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP receiver...

[Hal Murray]

 Based on Larry's comments below, I ordered two of these and paid for
 them with PP. Now I just got an email from the seller asking for my
 cell phone number for their postal service. Anybody else on here who
 bought any of these get the same request? I have purchased an ebay
 item from China in the recent past, a lot more expensive, and bigger
 and a lot heavier than these boards and they did not ask for my cell
 number. I would appreciate any advise. Regards - Mike 

I wouldn't be surprised if the shipping company wanted it.  It would be real 
handy if the truck driver can't find your address, even more so if the 
package was shipped from another country so it's more complicated to get more 
info from the sender.


-- 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP receiver...

[Mike S]

At 12:22 PM 6/22/2008, Mike Feher wrote...
I just got an email from the seller asking for my cell phone
number for their postal service...
732-886-5960

You can give them mine if you want (+1-800-555-1212), but what's the 
problem with giving them the number you post publicly in your email 
.sig?  :-) 


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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP receive...

[Mike Feher]

Thanks for all the info Larry. Also Chuck and Hal. I was not really worried
I just found it a bit odd. I have two Z3801s and one is always on with a
laptop. The display in the old laptop quit, so, now I use a 15 flat screen
monitor connected to the ancient laptop. 73 - Mike

 
 
Mike B. Feher, N4FS
89 Arnold Blvd.
Howell, NJ, 07731
732-886-5960
 
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 12:52 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP receive...

Mike et al:

The first two Motorola Oncore-VP RX's I bought from that eBay seller were 
shipped by TNT courier service, about $30 cost, to my work address with
about
a 5 or 6 day delivery time.  The seller provided a tracking number and I was

able to follow the shipment's progress.  It spent about two days hung up for
custom's clearance.  The seller's current eBay Oncore-VP listing uses Hong
Kong's Air Mail Service, presumably handed off to USPS, at a much lower cost
than TNT.  On my second order for the Oncore-VP with this seller he didn't 
like my PO Box address that I use for Snail Mail and so I gave him my work 
address again.  He also wanted my mobile phone number, but I gave my work 
phone number.  I thought it a bit odd that he said that Hong Kong Air Mail 
Service didn't like PO boxes...  I don't know why that would be since they 
aren't actually delivering it in the US.  Anyway, I've still got two weeks
to
go before expecting delivery on the second order.  Oddly, the seller said 
to my inquiry about tracking numbers that Hong Kong Air Mail Service does 
provide a tracking number -- but I've not been able to get it from the 
seller.  So far he has a 100% feedback rating and he sure gave me good 
service on the first order.  

Further, he has software available for the receivers, but you need to ask 
for it per the instructions in his eBay listing.  

As always with eBay its Caveat Emptor.  He does have PP Buyer Protection
so along with his 100% feedback rating I'm not too worried.  I can tell you 
that I was greatly relieved when the two receivers fired up FB in my Z3801A!
It did take awhile, even with a position initialization fix, for them to
find
the birds, then get current GPS time, etc.   

As an FYI, be aware (at least in my Z3801A), that the Z3801A's motherboard
firmware doesn't like dates after Dec 31st, 2007.  So if you try to
initialize
the Z3801A with a current date it may complain that its out of range.  Maybe
mine has old firmware and newer units won't complain?  I dunno.  It doesn't 
seem to be a problem -- just slows down the initial acquisition...

Note that it doesn't complain about the current date when acquired by GPS 
sats -- just the input routine for PC provided dates complains.  

--Larry, W7JYJ 

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[time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP receiver...

[vendors]

All:

There's a guy on eBay that has multiple Motorola Oncore-VP receivers for
sale that are mostly compatible with the HP Z3801A, in case you are 
looking to replace a dead RX or want a spare.  I bought two of them 
from the seller and have checked them both out in my Z3801A and they 
work.  The one difference is that they have a straight RF input connector
rather than the right-angle connector.  Because of this the ant cable 
connector hits a chip on the motherboard and the RX can't be screwed all 
the way down on the mounting posts.  One can easily replace the connector
or possibly flip it to the other side of the board.   The eBay seller 
has the receivers listed in lots of two for $57, plus about $12 shipping 
to the US.  Last I looked, he had 24 lots (of two) still available.  To 
find the listing search on Motorola Oncore or Oncore VP.  

--Larry, W7JYJ 

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP receiver...

[KFIam640]

300231430507
 
Larry, is this the correct eBay listing for the Oncore VP receiver?   It 
looks right to me.
 
Marvin
 
300231430507
 
 
In a message dated 6/21/2008 6:15:31 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

All:

There's a guy on eBay that has multiple Motorola Oncore-VP  receivers for
sale that are mostly compatible with the HP Z3801A, in case  you are 
looking to replace a dead RX or want a spare.  I bought two  of them 
from the seller and have checked them both out in my Z3801A and  they 
work.  The one difference is that they have a straight RF input  connector
rather than the right-angle connector.  Because of this the  ant cable 
connector hits a chip on the motherboard and the RX can't be  screwed all 
the way down on the mounting posts.  One can easily  replace the connector
or possibly flip it to the other side of the  board.   The eBay seller 
has the receivers listed in lots of two  for $57, plus about $12 shipping 
to the US.  Last I looked, he had 24  lots (of two) still available.  To 
find the listing search on  Motorola Oncore or Oncore VP.  

--Larry, W7JYJ  

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**Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.  
(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut000507)
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Communications

[Richard W. Solomon]

I found those on e-Pay. I finally gave up om trying to get an answer to
my question (sent three times) so just bought one.

73, Dick, W1KSZ

-Original Message-
From: Tom Van Baak [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: May 18, 2008 9:39 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Communications

Note new or used RS232/422 converters show up on eBay all the
time for under $5. Search, for example, for: 232 422 converter

/tvb


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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Communications

[Charles Watkins]

Hi Dick, I've been silently enjoying all the comments that Time-Nuts Digest
has had to offer for some time now, and have been too timid to respond (or
simply not smart enough).  I do have a solution if you do not want to make
the RS232 conversion on the Z3801A.  Originally I made a 422 to 232
converter using a free sample chip from Maxim.  I believe it was the MAX232.
It worked fine, and I still have it.  I mounted all the required surface
mount components dead bug style on a small piece of perf board and mounted
that within a DB-25 back shell.  The only drawback with the circuit was that
I had to provide an external 5 volt supply and since I did not want to
intrude into the PC, I used an external bench power supply.  I eventually
bit the bullet, and made the modification inside the 3801.  Glad I did, it's
much simpler now and unless you need the long line length that RS-422 can
handle, the 232 mod is well worth it.  If you want further info on the
MAX232 method, I can take pictures of the one I built and dig up the
schematic I used.  However, it can be found on the web, I just can't locate
the links right this minute.

Good luck,
Charles
N7SFW


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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Communications

[Bruce Griffiths]

Charles Watkins wrote:
 Hi Dick, I've been silently enjoying all the comments that Time-Nuts Digest
 has had to offer for some time now, and have been too timid to respond (or
 simply not smart enough).  I do have a solution if you do not want to make
 the RS232 conversion on the Z3801A.  Originally I made a 422 to 232
 converter using a free sample chip from Maxim.  I believe it was the MAX232.
 It worked fine, and I still have it.  I mounted all the required surface
 mount components dead bug style on a small piece of perf board and mounted
 that within a DB-25 back shell.  The only drawback with the circuit was that
 I had to provide an external 5 volt supply and since I did not want to
 intrude into the PC, I used an external bench power supply.  I eventually
 bit the bullet, and made the modification inside the 3801.  Glad I did, it's
 much simpler now and unless you need the long line length that RS-422 can
 handle, the 232 mod is well worth it.  If you want further info on the
 MAX232 method, I can take pictures of the one I built and dig up the
 schematic I used.  However, it can be found on the web, I just can't locate
 the links right this minute.

 Good luck,
 Charles
 N7SFW
   
Try a MAX3162.
It has RS232 derives and receivers as well as an RS485 driver and receiver.

The MAX232 contains TTL/CMOS to RS232 drivers and RS232 to TTL/CMOS 
receivers.

Bruce

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Communications

[Tom Van Baak]

Note new or used RS232/422 converters show up on eBay all the
time for under $5. Search, for example, for: 232 422 converter

/tvb


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[time-nuts] HP Z3801A Communications

[Richard W. Solomon]

I picked up one at a Flea and need to know how to access the internal
status software using my old 486 laptop running WIN98SE. I have not
done the RS-422 to RS-232 conversion yet.
I think I need to do a System Re-Set.

Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ 

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Communications

[John Franke]

You might open up the case and check to see if the unit has already been 
changed to RS-232, one of mine was.

John  WA4WDL

- Original Message - 
From: Richard W. Solomon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 3:48 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Communications


I picked up one at a Flea and need to know how to access the internal
 status software using my old 486 laptop running WIN98SE. I have not
 done the RS-422 to RS-232 conversion yet.
 I think I need to do a System Re-Set.

 Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Communications

[Magnus Danielson]

From: Richard W. Solomon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Communications
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 15:48:40 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 I picked up one at a Flea and need to know how to access the internal
 status software using my old 486 laptop running WIN98SE. I have not
 done the RS-422 to RS-232 conversion yet.
 I think I need to do a System Re-Set.

Visit this page: http://www.ad6a.com/Z3801A.html

This tells you how to make a (simple) conversion into RS-232. I've done it
myself and it works well. Highly recommended.

If your unit is converted, this also allows you to see if it has been
converted.

Cheers,
Magnus

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Communications

[Hal Murray]

 Visit this page: http://www.ad6a.com/Z3801A.html

 This tells you how to make a (simple) conversion into RS-232. I've done it
 myself and it works well. Highly recommended.

You don't need the header and jumpers.  There are 3 sets of empty pads for 0R 
jumpers setup to use the RS-232 signals.  You can reuse some of the ones you 
have to remove.


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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Communications

[Hal Murray]

 I picked up one at a Flea and need to know how to access the internal
 status software using my old 486 laptop running WIN98SE.

I assume you have found the manual and software.

If not, start here:
  http://www.realhamradio.com/GPS_Frequency_Standard.htm

My copy of satstat says 1995.  I don't know anything about Windows, but that 
sounds old enough that it might work.  If you can't find them, I can send you 
a copy.

I don't run windows, but I can poke the initialization by hand from Minicom.


 I think I need to do a System Re-Set.

Survey is probably what you are looking for.


-- 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Communications

[GandalfG8]

 
In a message dated 17/05/2008 22:18:30 GMT Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

My copy  of satstat says 1995.  I don't know anything about Windows, but that 
 
sounds old enough that it might work.  If you can't find them, I can  send 
you 
a copy.



--
 
I haven't used satstat for a while but used to run it under Win3.11on  a 
Dolch 486 luggable with no problems.
 
I've just installed satstat5 under XP on this P4 machine and  it looks to be 
running ok, given that the Z3801A isn't connected and  there's something else 
using the COM ports:-), so can't see Win98SE on a 486  being a problem.
 
regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR



   
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[time-nuts] HP Z3801A Communications

[Richard W. Solomon]

Thanks for the replies, but I wanted to know if I could access the internal
program without converting the data port.
It looks like the answer is no, so time to dis-embowel this thing and modify
it.

Tnx, Dick, W1KSZ

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Communications

[Magnus Danielson]

From: Richard W. Solomon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Communications
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 18:01:47 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Thanks for the replies, but I wanted to know if I could access the internal
 program without converting the data port.
 It looks like the answer is no, so time to dis-embowel this thing and modify
 it.

It is not that much work really, and it becomes much more usefull afterwards.

You can do quite alot once you have in online. There are even more than the
manual would make you beleive.

Cheers,
Magnus

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Communications

[GandalfG8]

 
In a message dated 18/05/2008 02:02:56 GMT Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Thanks  for the replies, but I wanted to know if I could access the  internal
program without converting the data port.
It looks like the  answer is no, so time to dis-embowel this thing and  modify
it.



--
Hi Dick
 
In theory, the answer ought to be yes but, having bought an  RS422 card a 
few years ago specifically to avoid having to convert my  Z3801A I never did 
manage to get it talking and did the conversion anyway.
After that, no problem:-)
 
The modification might seem a bit daunting at first but really is very  
straightforward and does make life a lot easier.
 
regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
 
 
 



   
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Communications

[Hal Murray]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 It is not that much work really, and it becomes much more usefull
 afterwards. 

What fraction of the people on this list are geeky enough to take the cover 
off just for the hell of it?  :)

 You can do quite alot once you have in online. There are even more
 than the manual would make you beleive. 

Is there a list of the other commands available?  What are they good for?

-

Aside from taking it apart, you need to remove a handful of 0R SMT jumpers 
and put 3 of them back on different places.  I think they are 0805.  My eyes 
are pretty old, but I can do 0604 if I have two good soldering irons.  0805s 
are a piece of cake.  Removing them is harder with only one iron, but it's 
not a big deal (IMHO) if there isn't anything complicated like a connection 
to a plane that sucks a lot of heat.

If you want a PPS signal via RS-232, things get more complicated.  The first 
step is to lift a pin to free up a driver.  If you want it on the normal DCD 
pin, you have to cut a trace.  I avoided that by using a convenient unused 
pin on the DB-25 because I was making my own 25-9 adapter so it was easy to 
customize it.

Here is another set of pictures, ideas, and directions (thanks to Jeff Mock):
  http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/Z3801AReceiverModifications




-- 
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.  I hate spam.




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[time-nuts] HP Z3801A

[Richard W. Solomon]

I have one coming and am looking to collect some info on it.

I Googled it and got quite a bit of info, but nowhere have I
found a Service Manual or its like. Anyone know where I can get
one ?

Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A

[d . seiter]

Richard-

Schematics for the power supply/oven control board are available, but I've 
never seen anything else.  (and even those are not from HP)

-Dave

-- Original message -- 
From: Richard W. Solomon [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 I have one coming and am looking to collect some info on it. 
 
 I Googled it and got quite a bit of info, but nowhere have I 
 found a Service Manual or its like. Anyone know where I can get 
 one ? 
 
 Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A on eBay -- And check this out as well

[Jason Rabel]

I just opened up mine and snapped a couple pics, mine doesn't look that
bad...

http://www.rabel.org/archives/Images/LNFA1X4-N/

I *think* tvb (if not him someone else) opened up one of the symmetricom's
and put some pictures online. There should be links *somewhere* in the
archive here.

I'm about to swap out splitters and try out the LNFA1X4-N, will post again
as soon I get things sorted out and back online.

Jason


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Robert Atkinson
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 3:12 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A on eBay -- And check this out as well

Hi,
I also bought one of the LNFA1X4-N splitters from that seller. It
arrived OK, but being nosey I opened it anyway. Basic design looks OK
and there is a 19dB pi attenuator made of SM resistors (2x 62R 1x 220R)
on each output so it would be easy to up the gain from the nominal 0dB.
You could even have different gains on some ports. The bad news was that
it looked a little second-hand inside. Lots of flux, some of it going
fluffy and signs of untidy hand replacement of components. The covers
have no seals or gaskets and there are signs of corrosion between the
mating surfaces. 
Overall it looks like they were refurbished units, given what we used to
call in the UK avionics industry an American Overhaul i.e. a quick
coat of spray paint to make them look nice, but no work inside. No
offence meant, there were a couple of unscrupulous dealers at the time.
I've not tested it yet but will report the results when I do.

Robert G8RPI.


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[time-nuts] HP Z3801A on eBay

[Didier Juges]

This HP Z3801A GPS Frequency Receiver Oscillator 58503 HAM, item 
150083329300, is over $200 with 9 days to go.
It's going to be a long ride.
Just in case anyone was interested in joining the fray.

Didier KO4BB


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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A on eBay

[Jason Rabel]

I'm not even going to attempt to bid, I bet this thing will go for way more
than it is worth. (What is it worth anyways?)

When was the last time one of these (complete) units popped up on eBay?

Jason

 This HP Z3801A GPS Frequency Receiver Oscillator 58503 HAM, item 
 150083329300, is over $200 with 9 days to go.
 It's going to be a long ride.
 Just in case anyone was interested in joining the fray.
 
 Didier KO4BB


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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A on eBay -- And check this out as well

[xaos]

These boxes used to go for 300-400 and they are definitely worth that.
I will bid on it just in case...


Now, I also like item: 230079813050


  Agilent HP 58517A GPS L1 Distribution Amplifier


I have two of these babies and I can always use another one.

Last time, I picked up one for 130.00. Definitely a bargain.

-George

Jason Rabel wrote:
 I'm not even going to attempt to bid, I bet this thing will go for way more
 than it is worth. (What is it worth anyways?)

 When was the last time one of these (complete) units popped up on eBay?

 Jason

   
 This HP Z3801A GPS Frequency Receiver Oscillator 58503 HAM, item 
 150083329300, is over $200 with 9 days to go.
 It's going to be a long ride.
 Just in case anyone was interested in joining the fray.

 Didier KO4BB
 


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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A on eBay -- And check this out as well

[Dr Bruce Griffiths]

Richard W. Solomon wrote:
 If you have more than one GPS engine connected, how does it disable
 the +5 vdc on the other receivers ? Or do you need to disable the
 Preamp DC feed ?

 Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Behalf Of xaos
 Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 3:53 PM
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A on eBay -- And check this out as well


 These boxes used to go for 300-400 and they are definitely worth that.
 I will bid on it just in case...


 Now, I also like item: 230079813050


   Agilent HP 58517A GPS L1 Distribution Amplifier


 I have two of these babies and I can always use another one.

 Last time, I picked up one for 130.00. Definitely a bargain.

 -George

 Jason Rabel wrote:
   
 I'm not even going to attempt to bid, I bet this thing will go for way
 
 more
   
 than it is worth. (What is it worth anyways?)

 When was the last time one of these (complete) units popped up on eBay?

 Jason


 
 This HP Z3801A GPS Frequency Receiver Oscillator 58503 HAM, item
 150083329300, is over $200 with 9 days to go.
 It's going to be a long ride.
 Just in case anyone was interested in joining the fray.

 Didier KO4BB

   
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Usually all receiver ports except 1 are AC coupled.

Later intelligent units may include a means of selecting the dc feed 
channel.

Bruce

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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A on eBay -- And check this out as well

[Richard W. Solomon]

I do not see an SMC connector on the auction item. Since it is an option on
that model, it may not be there.

Dick, W1KSZ

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Magnus Danielson
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 5:55 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A on eBay -- And check this out as well


From: Dr Bruce Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A on eBay -- And check this out as well
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:17:14 +1300
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Dick and Bruce,

 Richard W. Solomon wrote:
  If you have more than one GPS engine connected, how does it disable
  the +5 vdc on the other receivers ? Or do you need to disable the
  Preamp DC feed ?
 
  Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ
 
  ---
 Dick

 58517A accepts dc power from port 1 only or from the dc input connector.
 See Symmetricom data sheet

 http://ngn.symmetricom.com/pdf/datasheets/ds-gps-active-splitters.pdf

Well, I failed to have my Z3801A drive my 58517A over port 1. Appling 5V on
the
SMC connector on the 58517A solved the problem. The same Z3801A was feeding
the
active antenna with no problem just a few minutes before, so it is not an
issue
on the Z3801A.

So, I recommend you to feed it on the SMC. That works very well for my
GPSes.

Cheers,
Magnus

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