Re: [time-nuts] MesoAmerican calendars, Solstice, etc.
It is little short of brilliant…. Put t=GMST in the command line, and the Lady comes up in Sidereal Time, ticking away in Sidereal seconds. It was not exactly obvious that it would do it. I have had so much difficulty trying to set up and regulate a master clock to Sidereal time, and Lady Heather would show sidereal time! It is now just a matter of watching the screen and listening to the ticks of the clock. thanks Mark, and the others, cheers, Neville Michie On 18/12/2012, at 2:33 PM, Mark Sims wrote: Yes, you can have a GPSDMC (GPS disciplined Mayan calendar). You can also specify your preferred calendar correlation constant (a +/- offset to the start of the calendar) to satisfy the whims of when your favorite deity demands sacrifices. Also, Lady Heather does sidereal time (LMST or GMST or LAST or GAST)... ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] MesoAmerican calendars, Solstice, etc.
You knew it would be coming.. A discussion over lunch brought up the question of precisely WHEN this Maya calendar rollover/civilization ending event would occur. It's not enough to just say dec 21st.. Does the event occur at the beginning of the day, end of the day, in which local time scale.. Local news media and the blogosphere are woefully ignorant of such basic questions which time-nuts learn to ask at their mother's knee. I did find a reference that it's tied to the Solstice, or which we have a fairly precise instant: 1112UTC (although I've seen other numbers floating around). So, basically, I could not have to worry about going into work on Friday, because all the excitement will be over here in the Pacific Time zone(but I will have to get up real early to see it happen) But just like other time scales, how did those mesoAmericans reconcile their 360 day cycle to 365.25... day intervals between solstices? I've been rummaging through my ION CD of time and celestial nav papers, but didn't find anything at first on the whole issue (plenty on other astronomically derived scales). Anybody have any decent links to go hunting for? 5000 years is plenty long for significant precession of the equninoxes, for instance.. Maybe those Maya astronomers did a bang up job measuring, but hey, they probably didn't account for those higher order effects. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MesoAmerican calendars, Solstice, etc.
In message 50cf7327.2050...@earthlink.net, Jim Lux writes: Anybody have any decent links to go hunting for? Have you checked Calendrical Calculations ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MesoAmerican calendars, Solstice, etc.
And it's on my birthday, too. So should I open my presents at breakfast instead of dinnertime/ Will I get cake??? :-) merry Christmas to all of you... DonL Jim Lux You knew it would be coming.. A discussion over lunch brought up the question of precisely WHEN this Maya calendar rollover/civilization ending event would occur. It's not enough to just say dec 21st.. Does the event occur at the beginning of the day, end of the day, in which local time scale.. Local news media and the blogosphere are woefully ignorant of such basic questions which time-nuts learn to ask at their mother's knee. I did find a reference that it's tied to the Solstice, or which we have a fairly precise instant: 1112UTC (although I've seen other numbers floating around). So, basically, I could not have to worry about going into work on Friday, because all the excitement will be over here in the Pacific Time zone(but I will have to get up real early to see it happen) But just like other time scales, how did those mesoAmericans reconcile their 360 day cycle to 365.25... day intervals between solstices? I've been rummaging through my ION CD of time and celestial nav papers, but didn't find anything at first on the whole issue (plenty on other astronomically derived scales). Anybody have any decent links to go hunting for? 5000 years is plenty long for significant precession of the equninoxes, for instance.. Maybe those Maya astronomers did a bang up job measuring, but hey, they probably didn't account for those higher order effects. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MesoAmerican calendars, Solstice, etc.
I don't know of any good online sources. Most of the work on the Mayan calendar is published by archaeologists in books or in professional journals that require online subscriptions. There is growing evidence that the Mayan calendrical system began as two different systems. One was a rough solar calendar of 365 days that later became known as the Haab. The other system was a count of days that was not coupled to any celestial cycle. Since it was simply a count of days, any cycle could easily be represented in it infinitely into the future or past. This system consisted of units of 13 and units of 20. The Long Count ending supposedly on Dec 21 (archaeologists are not entirely sure that we have the date right) is the 13th baktun with a baktun being 20 katuns, and 20 tuns is a katun and 18 winals (360 days) is a tun. As an aside, 13 katuns is a May, and there is evidence that there were significant, self-imposed political changes in the classic Mayan period. In the ethnographic record, the solstice is not a point in time, but the day of the sun's shortest path. I'm not sure of what the start of the day was. The Mayan word for day, kin, seems to refer to the entire movement of the sun from sunrise to sunset. I guess technically, this would make sunrise the beginning of the day. The calendar is a count of kin. The Mayan long count emphasizes cyclic time, so I fear that we all need to get up on the first day of 14 Baktun. There is some evidence that the end of 13 Katuns is marked by a hiatus of construction found in the archaeological record, so it is possible that the end of 13 Baktun and the beginning of 14 Baktun is a time to stop doing things and take a deep breath before beginning the next great cycle. So we probably should go to work on December 22nd in the Gregorian Calendar, but I guess we could try to explain to our employers that it is a bad day to complete anything. The interpretation of the ending of the 13th Baktun as the apocalypse is a projection of Judeo-Christian-Islamic ideas of the end of the world onto a system which does not focus on endings. The best currently publishing authors on the Mayan count are Anthony Aveni and Prudence Rice. I particularly like Rice's MAYA POLITICAL SCIENCE: TIME, ASTRONOMY AND THE COSMOS. Aveni writes for a more general audience than Rice, however. Best, Kevin Kevin K. Birth, Professor Department of Anthropology Queens College, City University of New York 65-30 Kissena Boulevard Flushing, NY 11367 telephone: 718/997-5518 We may live longer but we may be subject to peculiar contagion and spiritual torpor or illiteracies of the imagination --Wilson Harris Tempus est mundi instabilis motus, rerumque labentium cursus. --Hrabanus Maurus Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net Sent by: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com 12/17/12 02:34 PM Please respond to Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com To Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com cc Subject [time-nuts] MesoAmerican calendars, Solstice, etc. You knew it would be coming.. A discussion over lunch brought up the question of precisely WHEN this Maya calendar rollover/civilization ending event would occur. It's not enough to just say dec 21st.. Does the event occur at the beginning of the day, end of the day, in which local time scale.. Local news media and the blogosphere are woefully ignorant of such basic questions which time-nuts learn to ask at their mother's knee. I did find a reference that it's tied to the Solstice, or which we have a fairly precise instant: 1112UTC (although I've seen other numbers floating around). So, basically, I could not have to worry about going into work on Friday, because all the excitement will be over here in the Pacific Time zone(but I will have to get up real early to see it happen) But just like other time scales, how did those mesoAmericans reconcile their 360 day cycle to 365.25... day intervals between solstices? I've been rummaging through my ION CD of time and celestial nav papers, but didn't find anything at first on the whole issue (plenty on other astronomically derived scales). Anybody have any decent links to go hunting for? 5000 years is plenty long for significant precession of the equninoxes, for instance.. Maybe those Maya astronomers did a bang up job measuring, but hey, they probably didn't account for those higher order effects. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MesoAmerican calendars, Solstice, etc.
On 12/17/12 12:03 PM, Don Latham wrote: And it's on my birthday, too. So should I open my presents at breakfast instead of dinnertime/ Will I get cake??? :-) merry Christmas to all of you... As the sun rises over the heel stone at Stonehenge, I should think.. After all: In ancient times... Hundreds of years before the dawn of history ... ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MesoAmerican calendars, Solstice, etc.
On 12/17/12 12:33 PM, kevin.bi...@qc.cuny.edu wrote: In the ethnographic record, the solstice is not a point in time, but the day of the sun's shortest path. I'm not sure of what the start of the day was. The Mayan word for day, kin, seems to refer to the entire movement of the sun from sunrise to sunset. Aha.. this is quite useful. I guess technically, this would make sunrise the beginning of the day. The calendar is a count of kin. The Mayan long count emphasizes cyclic time, so I fear that we all need to get up on the first day of 14 Baktun. There is some evidence that the end of 13 Katuns is marked by a hiatus of construction found in the archaeological record, so it is possible that the end of 13 Baktun and the beginning of 14 Baktun is a time to stop doing things and take a deep breath before beginning the next great cycle. So we probably should go to work on December 22nd in the Gregorian Calendar, One wonders, then, if that hiatus was conceptually instantaneous, or more like the Roman intercalary days between the end of one year and the beginning of the next. That would screw up the nice cyclical count structure, of course, so I would think it's more instantaneous. Conveniently, 22 December *is* a Saturday, so many people don't have to go to work anyway. but I guess we could try to explain to our employers that it is a bad day to complete anything. Yes, but unfortunately, Microsoft Project seems not to handle this appropriately. Time for a feature request grin The interpretation of the ending of the 13th Baktun as the apocalypse is a projection of Judeo-Christian-Islamic ideas of the end of the world onto a system which does not focus on endings. The best currently publishing authors on the Mayan count are Anthony Aveni and Prudence Rice. I particularly like Rice's MAYA POLITICAL SCIENCE: TIME, ASTRONOMY AND THE COSMOS. Aveni writes for a more general audience than Rice, however. Thanks.. Time for a library call. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MesoAmerican calendars, Solstice, etc.
the winter sun rises 180 degrees from the heel stone, don't it? through the trilithon... but yeah. I'd like to be there once for winter solstice sunrise. Been there to visit back when one could walk around... Don Jim Lux On 12/17/12 12:03 PM, Don Latham wrote: And it's on my birthday, too. So should I open my presents at breakfast instead of dinnertime/ Will I get cake??? :-) merry Christmas to all of you... As the sun rises over the heel stone at Stonehenge, I should think.. After all: In ancient times... Hundreds of years before the dawn of history ... ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] MesoAmerican calendars, Solstice, etc.
BTW, Lady Heather has support for several versions of the Mayan and Aztec calendars. Also Druid, Herbrew, Islamic, Indian, and many others. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MesoAmerican calendars, Solstice, etc.
But does it have an output of Sidereal Time? cheers, Neville Michie A Merry Season to all. On 18/12/2012, at 11:02 AM, Mark Sims wrote: BTW, Lady Heather has support for several versions of the Mayan and Aztec calendars. Also Druid, Herbrew, Islamic, Indian, and many others. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MesoAmerican calendars, Solstice, etc.
On 12/17/12 4:02 PM, Mark Sims wrote: BTW, Lady Heather has support for several versions of the Mayan and Aztec calendars. Also Druid, Herbrew, Islamic, Indian, and many others. so we can have a GPS disciplined rollover of the long count? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MesoAmerican calendars, Solstice, etc.
You're missing something important! Due to possible errors in their long term calculations we may have actually missed the end! Passed right by with nobody noticing... Peter On 12/17/2012 2:31 PM, Jim Lux wrote: You knew it would be coming.. A discussion over lunch brought up the question of precisely WHEN this Maya calendar rollover/civilization ending event would occur. It's not enough to just say dec 21st.. Does the event occur at the beginning of the day, end of the day, in which local time scale.. Local news media and the blogosphere are woefully ignorant of such basic questions which time-nuts learn to ask at their mother's knee. I did find a reference that it's tied to the Solstice, or which we have a fairly precise instant: 1112UTC (although I've seen other numbers floating around). So, basically, I could not have to worry about going into work on Friday, because all the excitement will be over here in the Pacific Time zone(but I will have to get up real early to see it happen) But just like other time scales, how did those mesoAmericans reconcile their 360 day cycle to 365.25... day intervals between solstices? I've been rummaging through my ION CD of time and celestial nav papers, but didn't find anything at first on the whole issue (plenty on other astronomically derived scales). Anybody have any decent links to go hunting for? 5000 years is plenty long for significant precession of the equninoxes, for instance.. Maybe those Maya astronomers did a bang up job measuring, but hey, they probably didn't account for those higher order effects. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2637/5464 - Release Date: 12/16/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] MesoAmerican calendars, Solstice, etc.
Yes, you can have a GPSDMC (GPS disciplined Mayan calendar). You can also specify your preferred calendar correlation constant (a +/- offset to the start of the calendar) to satisfy the whims of when your favorite deity demands sacrifices. Also, Lady Heather does sidereal time (LMST or GMST or LAST or GAST)... ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MesoAmerican calendars, Solstice, etc.
I heard that there was some discrepancy about the exact date and it may
actually be happening a few days earlier.
Happy Birthday Don -- hope you get your cake and a very Merry Christmas to
everyon%^67tenuj6o867gOseV87i7r87PGThliT8b;]{-=.
---NO CARRIER
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
[mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Don Latham
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 12:04
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] MesoAmerican calendars, Solstice, etc.
And it's on my birthday, too. So should I open my presents at
breakfast
instead of dinnertime/ Will I get cake???
:-)
merry Christmas to all of you...
DonL
Jim Lux
You knew it would be coming..
A discussion over lunch brought up the question of
precisely WHEN this
Maya calendar rollover/civilization ending event would
occur. It's not
enough to just say dec 21st.. Does the event occur at the
beginning of
the day, end of the day, in which local time scale.. Local
news media
and the blogosphere are woefully ignorant of such basic
questions which
time-nuts learn to ask at their mother's knee.
I did find a reference that it's tied to the Solstice, or
which we have
a fairly precise instant: 1112UTC (although I've seen
other numbers
floating around). So, basically, I could not have to worry
about going
into work on Friday, because all the excitement will be
over here in the
Pacific Time zone(but I will have to get up real early to
see it happen)
But just like other time scales, how did those
mesoAmericans reconcile
their 360 day cycle to 365.25... day intervals between solstices?
I've been rummaging through my ION CD of time and celestial
nav papers,
but didn't find anything at first on the whole issue
(plenty on other
astronomically derived scales).
Anybody have any decent links to go hunting for?
5000 years is plenty long for significant precession of the
equninoxes,
for instance.. Maybe those Maya astronomers did a bang up
job measuring,
but hey, they probably didn't account for those higher
order effects.
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
--
Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind.
De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century.
If you don't know what it is, don't poke it.
Ghost in the Shell
Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MesoAmerican calendars, Solstice, etc.
But just like other time scales, how did those mesoAmericans reconcile their 360 day cycle to 365.25... day intervals between solstices? They had a five day ong party wherethey didn't work. They took those days off. Not kidding, they resync'd every year. Kind of like leap days all stuck on the end of the year. I've been rummaging through my ION CD of time and celestial nav papers, but didn't find anything at first on the whole issue (plenty on other astronomically derived scales). Anybody have any decent links to go hunting for? 5000 years is plenty long for significant precession of the equninoxes, for instance.. Maybe those Maya astronomers did a bang up job measuring, but hey, they probably didn't account for those higher order effects. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2637/5464 - Release Date: 12/16/12 __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MesoAmerican calendars, Solstice, etc.
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.comwrote: But just like other time scales, how did those mesoAmericans reconcile their 360 day cycle to 365.25... day intervals between solstices? They had a five day ong party wherethey didn't work. They took those days off. Not kidding, they resync'd every year. Kind of like leap days all stuck on the end of the year. Just to nitpick: 1. If you are a hunter/gatherer, no work for 5 days leaves you in very bad shape 2. If you are a farmer, no work for 5 days could kill you next year The idea of a multi-day holiday can only occur in a capitalist, wage slave, economy, I think. -- Sanjeev Gupta +65 98551208 http://www.linkedin.com/in/ghane ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
