[time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
I was measuring the jitter and adevs of the PPS signal from a GT-8736. GPS only seems to be slightly better (1-3 ns more span) than GPS+GLONASS. GLONASS only seems have around 50% more jitter than GPS only. Glonaas only adevs are 3 times as large as GPS only (at tau=1 seconds). - > It is indeed a benefit to use the different constellations. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
Hi > On Apr 1, 2018, at 9:47 PM, Hal Murray wrote: > > > mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org said: >> I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and >> multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should be >> some preparations for this now. > > How well do various GNSS track UTC and/or eachother? These days Glonass puts out an offset number that should be good to the single digit nanoseconds (unless it’s broke). The Europeans have set up to effectively stay “as close as you can get” to sync. Right now those are the only three that are likely candidates for time sources. > > >> The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision. > > I've been assuming the cheap GPS jammers will kill the others too. Maybe not. Glonass is not on quite the same frequencies. The signal formats of each system are very different. A jammer that nukes one may not have any impact on the rest. Indeed a megawatt level broadband DC to light jammer would take out a lot of things. It’s also a pretty easy item to track down. Straight broadband jamming *should* simply shut a receiver down. That’s why GPSDO’s go into holdover (and why you have GPSDO’s). Are all receivers ever made perfect in the face of any and all crud … maybe not. The bigger issue is a “spoof” signal that deliberately tricks the receiver into thinking it is locked to legitimate satellites. There are ways to do that. Receivers are not going to reject that solution and away you go. Doing a working spoof for multiple systems …. much harder than a single system. Bob > Are there > any signals far enough away from L1 that they might get through? > > > -- > These are my opinions. I hate spam. > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
Hi A….. but ….. The uBlox parts are available with the existing chip sets pretty easily today. That has not always been the case with uBlox. Back when the chips were new / unique / hard to support it was significantly more difficult to get anything out of them (at least at a rational price). Broadcom …. yikes … I’ve sat in around in meetings where giant telecom companies can’t get adequate information on chips they are using from those guys. Even simple stuff like “what does this register do”. Three years later back comes “the XXX register must be set this way for the chip not to lock up intermittently” …. gee … maybe it wasn’t Bob’s fault :) It *is* a big bet so I can’t say any of this with certainty. It’s simply my guess that on something this complex, we are back to the way things worked a decade or two ago. Bob > On Apr 1, 2018, at 8:06 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > > Bob, > > If it was a glass of good bourbon, I'd take you up on that offer :-) > > The Broadcom chipsets are touted as being specifically for phones. Whether > we'll be able to buy stand alone modules, I don't know. The uBlox chipsets > have in that past been widely available at rational prices. Hopefully the > new "9" series will be, also. As for the ST Micro, I haven't a clue, but > considering how their microcontrollers are so widely available from China, > who knows what will happen. > > Joe Gray > W5JG > > > On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 9:37 PM, Bob kb8tq wrote: > >> Hi >> >> I’d bet a warm glass of beer ( pick up only, no free delivery ) that you >> will not see them in user level >> modules ( = something you can fire up) at a rational price ( < $500) for >> quite a while ( = years …). >> The target market is integration in self driving / autonomous vehicles. If >> you are GM or Toyota, >> they will gladly support you. For the rest of us …. go to the back of the >> line ….. That’s been the pattern >> on this stuff like this for quite a while. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Apr 1, 2018, at 1:04 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: >>> >>> Magnus, >>> >>> When I can buy one of these new, multi-frequency receivers, I'll remember >>> to thank you :-) I wonder if any of the three will be available this >> year. >>> The Broadcom chipset in phones will be nice, but I'd also like a >> standalone >>> module from anyone. More fun stuff to play with. >>> >>> Joe Gray >>> W5JG >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 3:15 AM, Magnus Danielson < >> mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: >>> Hi Joe, On 03/31/2018 01:16 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > I've been reading announcements by Broadcom, uBlox and ST Micro for new > chipsets that will use L1, L2, L5 to provide significantly more precise > positioning for every day applications like cell phone, autonomous > vehicles, UAV, etc. Broadcom is claiming 30 cm, uBlox just says "centimeter > level". The next few years ought to be very interesting, as these chipsets > become available in consumer products. I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should be some preparations for this now. The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision. Natural I would enjoy cheap multi-frequency receivers myself, but I would never admit that this would be a reason for advocating it. ;-) Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
Hi Hal, On 04/02/2018 03:47 AM, Hal Murray wrote: > > mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org said: >> I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and >> multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should be >> some preparations for this now. > > How well do various GNSS track UTC and/or eachother? Within a handful of ns from UTC, which is quite good. GPS masterclock is to be held with +/- 1 us of UTC USNO, but in practice it is held much tighter, as within 3-5 ns or so. I expect the other constellations to be in that neighborhood even if not with that low value. It should be easy to check, but I'm a bit lazy to do so right now. >> The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision. > > I've been assuming the cheap GPS jammers will kill the others too. Are there > any signals far enough away from L1 that they might get through? The cheap jammers hit L1 C/A. It takes more jammer-cores to cover more frequencies, and the more frequencies you track, the harder to pinpoint them all, and well, until full constellation full frequency receivers is common, jammers will not adapt fully to it. How well antennas and receivers handle sideband jamming depends on the receiver design, just as in normal radio setups. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
I think Bob is right and knows what he is talking about. Example Furuno GT-87, how many years have I known about it and tried to buy some, just recently became available. Bert Kehren In a message dated 4/1/2018 10:52:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, jg...@zianet.com writes: Bob, If it was a glass of good bourbon, I'd take you up on that offer :-) The Broadcom chipsets are touted as being specifically for phones. Whether we'll be able to buy stand alone modules, I don't know. The uBlox chipsets have in that past been widely available at rational prices. Hopefully the new "9" series will be, also. As for the ST Micro, I haven't a clue, but considering how their microcontrollers are so widely available from China, who knows what will happen. Joe Gray W5JG On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 9:37 PM, Bob kb8tq wrote: > Hi > > I’d bet a warm glass of beer ( pick up only, no free delivery ) that you > will not see them in user level > modules ( = something you can fire up) at a rational price ( < $500) for > quite a while ( = years …). > The target market is integration in self driving / autonomous vehicles. If > you are GM or Toyota, > they will gladly support you. For the rest of us …. go to the back of the > line ….. That’s been the pattern > on this stuff like this for quite a while. > > Bob > > > On Apr 1, 2018, at 1:04 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > > > > Magnus, > > > > When I can buy one of these new, multi-frequency receivers, I'll remember > > to thank you :-) I wonder if any of the three will be available this > year. > > The Broadcom chipset in phones will be nice, but I'd also like a > standalone > > module from anyone. More fun stuff to play with. > > > > Joe Gray > > W5JG > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 3:15 AM, Magnus Danielson < > mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org > >> wrote: > > > >> Hi Joe, > >> > >> On 03/31/2018 01:16 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > >>> I've been reading announcements by Broadcom, uBlox and ST Micro for new > >>> chipsets that will use L1, L2, L5 to provide significantly more precise > >>> positioning for every day applications like cell phone, autonomous > >>> vehicles, UAV, etc. Broadcom is claiming 30 cm, uBlox just says > >> "centimeter > >>> level". The next few years ought to be very interesting, as these > >> chipsets > >>> become available in consumer products. > >> > >> I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and > >> multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should > >> be some preparations for this now. > >> > >> The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision. > >> > >> Natural I would enjoy cheap multi-frequency receivers myself, but I > >> would never admit that this would be a reason for advocating it. ;-) > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Magnus > >> ___ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
Hi Tom, It is indeed a benefit to use the different constellations. However, I want to make one point regarding propagation delay. As you observe one satellite in 2 frequencies, you can use the fact that the ionospheric shift at one frequency depends on the frequency and the TEC of that path. As you now observe on two frequencies, you can now on the difference between the measures estimate how much the difference of frequency picked up at TEC, thus one can separate out the TEC effect. By estimating TEX from those observations, the ionspheric effect can be removed from both observations. If you try to do this with another constellation, you add a number of complicating factors and loose precision as you do so. Can you observe the same satellite in three frequencies, you can build a more accurate estimation and compensation. Also, you an loose one of the signals and still be able to perform the processing. One should be prepared to do L1 only, L2C only, L5 only, L1 & L2C, L1 & L5, L2C & L5 and finally L1 & L2C & L5. Cheers, Magnus On 04/01/2018 11:53 PM, Tom Knox wrote: > Hi All; > > I think the real break through is using these different constellations and > their different frequencies and looking at carrier phase verses timing > elements. This should allow the removal of propagation delay. > > Cheers; > > Thomas Knox > act...@hotmail.com > > > > From: time-nuts on behalf of Magnus Danielson > > Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2018 2:40 PM > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Cc: mag...@rubidium.se > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets > > Joe, > > I'm not sure I had much influence, but I at least try to advocate for it > to become a good market, so hopefully it will be affordable. It has > actually been affordable for quite some time, so going multifrequency > should be the next step and with that the benefits. > > Cheers, > Magnus > > On 04/01/2018 07:04 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: >> Magnus, >> >> When I can buy one of these new, multi-frequency receivers, I'll remember >> to thank you :-) I wonder if any of the three will be available this year. >> The Broadcom chipset in phones will be nice, but I'd also like a standalone >> module from anyone. More fun stuff to play with. >> >> Joe Gray >> W5JG >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 3:15 AM, Magnus Danielson >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Joe, >>> >>> On 03/31/2018 01:16 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: >>>> I've been reading announcements by Broadcom, uBlox and ST Micro for new >>>> chipsets that will use L1, L2, L5 to provide significantly more precise >>>> positioning for every day applications like cell phone, autonomous >>>> vehicles, UAV, etc. Broadcom is claiming 30 cm, uBlox just says >>> "centimeter >>>> level". The next few years ought to be very interesting, as these >>> chipsets >>>> become available in consumer products. >>> >>> I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and >>> multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should >>> be some preparations for this now. >>> >>> The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision. >>> >>> Natural I would enjoy cheap multi-frequency receivers myself, but I >>> would never admit that this would be a reason for advocating it. ;-) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Magnus >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org said: > I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and > multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should be > some preparations for this now. How well do various GNSS track UTC and/or eachother? > The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision. I've been assuming the cheap GPS jammers will kill the others too. Are there any signals far enough away from L1 that they might get through? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
Tom, Yes, that was my take on this as well. With easily available sub-meter position fixes, I believe that even more uses will be found for this technology. With the Broadcom chipsets going into phones, Google Maps will no longer tell you to take the highway ramp, when you are already on the highway :-) Just remember to turn off your phone and wear your tin foil hat, when you don't want "the man" knowing where you are :-) Joe Gray W5JG On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 9:53 PM, Tom Knox wrote: > Hi All; > > I think the real break through is using these different constellations and > their different frequencies and looking at carrier phase verses timing > elements. This should allow the removal of propagation delay. > > Cheers; > > Thomas Knox > act...@hotmail.com > > > > From: time-nuts on behalf of Magnus > Danielson > Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2018 2:40 PM > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Cc: mag...@rubidium.se > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets > > Joe, > > I'm not sure I had much influence, but I at least try to advocate for it > to become a good market, so hopefully it will be affordable. It has > actually been affordable for quite some time, so going multifrequency > should be the next step and with that the benefits. > > Cheers, > Magnus > > On 04/01/2018 07:04 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > > Magnus, > > > > When I can buy one of these new, multi-frequency receivers, I'll remember > > to thank you :-) I wonder if any of the three will be available this > year. > > The Broadcom chipset in phones will be nice, but I'd also like a > standalone > > module from anyone. More fun stuff to play with. > > > > Joe Gray > > W5JG > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 3:15 AM, Magnus Danielson < > mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org > >> wrote: > > > >> Hi Joe, > >> > >> On 03/31/2018 01:16 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > >>> I've been reading announcements by Broadcom, uBlox and ST Micro for new > >>> chipsets that will use L1, L2, L5 to provide significantly more precise > >>> positioning for every day applications like cell phone, autonomous > >>> vehicles, UAV, etc. Broadcom is claiming 30 cm, uBlox just says > >> "centimeter > >>> level". The next few years ought to be very interesting, as these > >> chipsets > >>> become available in consumer products. > >> > >> I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and > >> multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should > >> be some preparations for this now. > >> > >> The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision. > >> > >> Natural I would enjoy cheap multi-frequency receivers myself, but I > >> would never admit that this would be a reason for advocating it. ;-) > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Magnus > >> ___ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
Bob, If it was a glass of good bourbon, I'd take you up on that offer :-) The Broadcom chipsets are touted as being specifically for phones. Whether we'll be able to buy stand alone modules, I don't know. The uBlox chipsets have in that past been widely available at rational prices. Hopefully the new "9" series will be, also. As for the ST Micro, I haven't a clue, but considering how their microcontrollers are so widely available from China, who knows what will happen. Joe Gray W5JG On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 9:37 PM, Bob kb8tq wrote: > Hi > > I’d bet a warm glass of beer ( pick up only, no free delivery ) that you > will not see them in user level > modules ( = something you can fire up) at a rational price ( < $500) for > quite a while ( = years …). > The target market is integration in self driving / autonomous vehicles. If > you are GM or Toyota, > they will gladly support you. For the rest of us …. go to the back of the > line ….. That’s been the pattern > on this stuff like this for quite a while. > > Bob > > > On Apr 1, 2018, at 1:04 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > > > > Magnus, > > > > When I can buy one of these new, multi-frequency receivers, I'll remember > > to thank you :-) I wonder if any of the three will be available this > year. > > The Broadcom chipset in phones will be nice, but I'd also like a > standalone > > module from anyone. More fun stuff to play with. > > > > Joe Gray > > W5JG > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 3:15 AM, Magnus Danielson < > mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org > >> wrote: > > > >> Hi Joe, > >> > >> On 03/31/2018 01:16 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > >>> I've been reading announcements by Broadcom, uBlox and ST Micro for new > >>> chipsets that will use L1, L2, L5 to provide significantly more precise > >>> positioning for every day applications like cell phone, autonomous > >>> vehicles, UAV, etc. Broadcom is claiming 30 cm, uBlox just says > >> "centimeter > >>> level". The next few years ought to be very interesting, as these > >> chipsets > >>> become available in consumer products. > >> > >> I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and > >> multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should > >> be some preparations for this now. > >> > >> The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision. > >> > >> Natural I would enjoy cheap multi-frequency receivers myself, but I > >> would never admit that this would be a reason for advocating it. ;-) > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Magnus > >> ___ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
Hi I’d bet a warm glass of beer ( pick up only, no free delivery ) that you will not see them in user level modules ( = something you can fire up) at a rational price ( < $500) for quite a while ( = years …). The target market is integration in self driving / autonomous vehicles. If you are GM or Toyota, they will gladly support you. For the rest of us …. go to the back of the line ….. That’s been the pattern on this stuff like this for quite a while. Bob > On Apr 1, 2018, at 1:04 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > > Magnus, > > When I can buy one of these new, multi-frequency receivers, I'll remember > to thank you :-) I wonder if any of the three will be available this year. > The Broadcom chipset in phones will be nice, but I'd also like a standalone > module from anyone. More fun stuff to play with. > > Joe Gray > W5JG > > > On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 3:15 AM, Magnus Danielson > wrote: > >> Hi Joe, >> >> On 03/31/2018 01:16 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: >>> I've been reading announcements by Broadcom, uBlox and ST Micro for new >>> chipsets that will use L1, L2, L5 to provide significantly more precise >>> positioning for every day applications like cell phone, autonomous >>> vehicles, UAV, etc. Broadcom is claiming 30 cm, uBlox just says >> "centimeter >>> level". The next few years ought to be very interesting, as these >> chipsets >>> become available in consumer products. >> >> I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and >> multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should >> be some preparations for this now. >> >> The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision. >> >> Natural I would enjoy cheap multi-frequency receivers myself, but I >> would never admit that this would be a reason for advocating it. ;-) >> >> Cheers, >> Magnus >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
Hi All; I think the real break through is using these different constellations and their different frequencies and looking at carrier phase verses timing elements. This should allow the removal of propagation delay. Cheers; Thomas Knox act...@hotmail.com From: time-nuts on behalf of Magnus Danielson Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2018 2:40 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Cc: mag...@rubidium.se Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets Joe, I'm not sure I had much influence, but I at least try to advocate for it to become a good market, so hopefully it will be affordable. It has actually been affordable for quite some time, so going multifrequency should be the next step and with that the benefits. Cheers, Magnus On 04/01/2018 07:04 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > Magnus, > > When I can buy one of these new, multi-frequency receivers, I'll remember > to thank you :-) I wonder if any of the three will be available this year. > The Broadcom chipset in phones will be nice, but I'd also like a standalone > module from anyone. More fun stuff to play with. > > Joe Gray > W5JG > > > On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 3:15 AM, Magnus Danielson > wrote: > >> Hi Joe, >> >> On 03/31/2018 01:16 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: >>> I've been reading announcements by Broadcom, uBlox and ST Micro for new >>> chipsets that will use L1, L2, L5 to provide significantly more precise >>> positioning for every day applications like cell phone, autonomous >>> vehicles, UAV, etc. Broadcom is claiming 30 cm, uBlox just says >> "centimeter >>> level". The next few years ought to be very interesting, as these >> chipsets >>> become available in consumer products. >> >> I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and >> multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should >> be some preparations for this now. >> >> The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision. >> >> Natural I would enjoy cheap multi-frequency receivers myself, but I >> would never admit that this would be a reason for advocating it. ;-) >> >> Cheers, >> Magnus >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
Joe, I'm not sure I had much influence, but I at least try to advocate for it to become a good market, so hopefully it will be affordable. It has actually been affordable for quite some time, so going multifrequency should be the next step and with that the benefits. Cheers, Magnus On 04/01/2018 07:04 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > Magnus, > > When I can buy one of these new, multi-frequency receivers, I'll remember > to thank you :-) I wonder if any of the three will be available this year. > The Broadcom chipset in phones will be nice, but I'd also like a standalone > module from anyone. More fun stuff to play with. > > Joe Gray > W5JG > > > On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 3:15 AM, Magnus Danielson > wrote: > >> Hi Joe, >> >> On 03/31/2018 01:16 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: >>> I've been reading announcements by Broadcom, uBlox and ST Micro for new >>> chipsets that will use L1, L2, L5 to provide significantly more precise >>> positioning for every day applications like cell phone, autonomous >>> vehicles, UAV, etc. Broadcom is claiming 30 cm, uBlox just says >> "centimeter >>> level". The next few years ought to be very interesting, as these >> chipsets >>> become available in consumer products. >> >> I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and >> multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should >> be some preparations for this now. >> >> The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision. >> >> Natural I would enjoy cheap multi-frequency receivers myself, but I >> would never admit that this would be a reason for advocating it. ;-) >> >> Cheers, >> Magnus >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
Magnus, When I can buy one of these new, multi-frequency receivers, I'll remember to thank you :-) I wonder if any of the three will be available this year. The Broadcom chipset in phones will be nice, but I'd also like a standalone module from anyone. More fun stuff to play with. Joe Gray W5JG On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 3:15 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: > Hi Joe, > > On 03/31/2018 01:16 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > > I've been reading announcements by Broadcom, uBlox and ST Micro for new > > chipsets that will use L1, L2, L5 to provide significantly more precise > > positioning for every day applications like cell phone, autonomous > > vehicles, UAV, etc. Broadcom is claiming 30 cm, uBlox just says > "centimeter > > level". The next few years ought to be very interesting, as these > chipsets > > become available in consumer products. > > I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and > multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should > be some preparations for this now. > > The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision. > > Natural I would enjoy cheap multi-frequency receivers myself, but I > would never admit that this would be a reason for advocating it. ;-) > > Cheers, > Magnus > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
Hi Joe, On 03/31/2018 01:16 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: > I've been reading announcements by Broadcom, uBlox and ST Micro for new > chipsets that will use L1, L2, L5 to provide significantly more precise > positioning for every day applications like cell phone, autonomous > vehicles, UAV, etc. Broadcom is claiming 30 cm, uBlox just says "centimeter > level". The next few years ought to be very interesting, as these chipsets > become available in consumer products. I have advocated for receivers able to handle multiple frequencies and multiple GNSS for some time, sneaking it into documents, so there should be some preparations for this now. The benefit is naturally redundancy, but also higher precision. Natural I would enjoy cheap multi-frequency receivers myself, but I would never admit that this would be a reason for advocating it. ;-) Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] New GNSS chipsets
I've been reading announcements by Broadcom, uBlox and ST Micro for new chipsets that will use L1, L2, L5 to provide significantly more precise positioning for every day applications like cell phone, autonomous vehicles, UAV, etc. Broadcom is claiming 30 cm, uBlox just says "centimeter level". The next few years ought to be very interesting, as these chipsets become available in consumer products. Joe Gray W5JG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
