: Sunday, September 19, 2010 4:12 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: xtal osc PN
Hi Mike,
On 9/19/10, Mike Feher mfe...@eozinc.com wrote:
Frank -
Great idea, so obvious I did not think of it. If you mix the 20 and 22
you
will only
.
Howell, NJ, 07731
732-886-5960
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of francesco messineo
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 4:12 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT
Hi
On 9/19/10, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote:
Hi
Is -195 dbc/Hz floor good enough or is it overkill?
I'd say this is obviously overkill, -160 dBc/Hz could be a good compromise.
Is -155 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset a requirement or is -40 dbc ok?
-40 dBc/Hz at 100 Hz is about useless, -150
At 13:50 -0600 18-09-2010, Pete Rawson wrote:
This is true, but the Si570 is better than the vast majority of canned
oscillators, including many TCXOs.
While computer-grade canned oscillators do indeed have less than
ideal phase noise characteristics, several easily available
oscillator
Hi Bruce,
On 9/18/10, Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
Another reference on VHF crystal oscillator circuits (if you can read
German) is:
http://www.axtal.com/data/buch/Kap6.pdf
In particular Figures 6.20 and 6.21 on page 23.
unfortunately I don't read german, but it seem I
Ciao Francesco
The German commentary doesnt add much, but at least the circuit
annotations are in English.
The QBH125 (http://www.spectrummicrowave.com/pdf/amplifier/QBH-125.pdf)
used by one of the circuits is available on eBay and elsewhere (Spectrum
microwave).
You may be able to substitute
Hi
Ok, you have just ruled out all of the silicon oscillators and by similarity
ruled out a DDS. That narrows things down quite a bit.
You will indeed need to shop around for low noise VHF crystals. Since you are
in Europe, talking to KVG probably is your best bet.
Bob
On Sep 19, 2010, at
Frank,
On 09/19/2010 09:35 AM, francesco messineo wrote:
Hi
On 9/19/10, Bob Campli...@rtty.us wrote:
Hi
Is -195 dbc/Hz floor good enough or is it overkill?
I'd say this is obviously overkill, -160 dBc/Hz could be a good compromise.
Is -155 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset a requirement or is
On 9/19/10, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
Frank,
On 09/19/2010 09:35 AM, francesco messineo wrote:
Hi
On 9/19/10, Bob Campli...@rtty.us wrote:
Hi
Is -195 dbc/Hz floor good enough or is it overkill?
I'd say this is obviously overkill, -160 dBc/Hz could be a good
] On
Behalf Of francesco messineo
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:04 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: xtal osc PN
On 9/19/10, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
Frank,
On 09/19/2010 09:35 AM, francesco messineo wrote:
Hi
Hi
If it's a reasonably priced synthesized radio, -90 is probably better than
anything you will find on VHF at 100 Hz offset. A lot of stuff out there is
closer to -60 than it is to -100. 100 Hz doesn't mess up the adjacent channel
rejection, so they don't worry a lot about it.
Bob
On Sep
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: xtal osc PN
On 9/19/10, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
Frank,
On 09/19/2010 09:35 AM, francesco messineo wrote:
Hi
On 9/19/10, Bob Campli...@rtty.us wrote:
Hi
Is -195 dbc/Hz floor good
Hi
The key point being that a fixed oscillator will have *much* better close in
phase noise than your typical synthesized radio.
Bob
On Sep 19, 2010, at 12:41 PM, francesco messineo wrote:
Hi Bob,
sine oscillators like the AXLE184 series (which is one of my candidate
solutions so far)
On 9/19/10, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote:
Hi
The key point being that a fixed oscillator will have *much* better close in
phase noise than your typical synthesized radio.
yes, I agree fully, in facts getting rid of the typical syntesized
radio is my final goal :-)
First step is the
francesco messineo wrote:
It's hard to explain why to ones not familiar with weak signal
operation between broadcasting signals, but really the noise floor
raise a lot when you have some 5 or 6 broadcasts signals in 500 KHz of
band (all with power levels of at least 10 dB more than the levels
francesco messineo wrote:
Hi Mike,
as I said, current plans are for a few frequencies in the 20-50 MHz
range. The current project needs 20, 22 and 42 MHz oscillators.
But you're multiplying that up, it will be 20log(N) worse...
___
time-nuts
Hi
Maybe narrow band stuff like low data rate PSK
Bob
On Sep 19, 2010, at 1:59 PM, jimlux wrote:
francesco messineo wrote:
It's hard to explain why to ones not familiar with weak signal
operation between broadcasting signals, but really the noise floor
raise a lot when you have some 5
On 9/19/10, jimlux jim...@earthlink.net wrote:
francesco messineo wrote:
It's hard to explain why to ones not familiar with weak signal
operation between broadcasting signals, but really the noise floor
raise a lot when you have some 5 or 6 broadcasts signals in 500 KHz of
band (all with
On 9/19/10, jimlux jim...@earthlink.net wrote:
francesco messineo wrote:
Hi Mike,
as I said, current plans are for a few frequencies in the 20-50 MHz
range. The current project needs 20, 22 and 42 MHz oscillators.
But you're multiplying that up, it will be 20log(N) worse...
no, I'm using
732-886-5960
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of jimlux
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 2:03 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: xtal osc PN
francesco messineo wrote
On 09/19/2010 08:23 PM, francesco messineo wrote:
On 9/19/10, jimluxjim...@earthlink.net wrote:
francesco messineo wrote:
Hi Mike,
as I said, current plans are for a few frequencies in the 20-50 MHz
range. The current project needs 20, 22 and 42 MHz oscillators.
But you're multiplying
francesco messineo wrote:
On 9/19/10, jimlux jim...@earthlink.net wrote:
francesco messineo wrote:
It's hard to explain why to ones not familiar with weak signal
operation between broadcasting signals, but really the noise floor
raise a lot when you have some 5 or 6 broadcasts signals in 500
Magnus Danielson wrote:
On 09/19/2010 08:23 PM, francesco messineo wrote:
On 9/19/10, jimluxjim...@earthlink.net wrote:
francesco messineo wrote:
Hi Mike,
as I said, current plans are for a few frequencies in the 20-50 MHz
range. The current project needs 20, 22 and 42 MHz oscillators.
Hi Mike,
On 9/19/10, Mike Feher mfe...@eozinc.com wrote:
Well, if one just looks at the spec of the 10811A for relative performance,
it is -140 dBc/Hz at 100 Hz offset at 10 MHz. Realistically, probably a
little better. From that it would be real easy to generate the frequencies
Frank is
...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of francesco messineo
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 3:00 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: xtal osc PN
Hi Mike,
On 9/19/10, Mike Feher mfe...@eozinc.com wrote:
Well, if one just looks at the spec of the 10811A for relative
Hi
I do believe you will find that a 3rd overtone will do quite a bit better at
100Hz offset than a fundamental.
Bob
On Sep 19, 2010, at 2:56 PM, jimlux wrote:
Magnus Danielson wrote:
On 09/19/2010 08:23 PM, francesco messineo wrote:
On 9/19/10, jimluxjim...@earthlink.net wrote:
Hi Mike,
On 9/19/10, Mike Feher mfe...@eozinc.com wrote:
Frank -
Great idea, so obvious I did not think of it. If you mix the 20 and 22 you
will only get 3 dB degradation or still very close to the -131 dBc/Hz
relative to the 10811A. As I mentioned before the architecture is relevant.
I
of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: xtal osc PN
Hi Mike,
On 9/19/10, Mike Feher mfe...@eozinc.com wrote:
Frank -
Great idea, so obvious I did not think of it. If you mix the 20 and 22 you
will only get 3 dB degradation or still very close to the -131 dBc/Hz
Hello all,
sorry for the OT, but the electronic expertise of the group is too good :-)
I'm looking for ideas and directions (articles and so on) to realize
very good phase noise xtal oscillator, in the range 20-50 MHz for high
performance frequency conversion. I would like to understand what
sorry for the OT, but the electronic expertise of the group is
too good :-)
I'm looking for ideas and directions (articles and so on) to realize
very good phase noise xtal oscillator, in the range 20-50 MHz for high
performance frequency conversion. I would like to understand what
On 09/18/2010 09:48 AM, francesco messineo wrote:
Hello all,
sorry for the OT, but the electronic expertise of the group is too good :-)
I'm looking for ideas and directions (articles and so on) to realize
very good phase noise xtal oscillator, in the range 20-50 MHz for high
performance
First of all, thanks to John and Magnus for inputs and links, makes a
very good start!
On 9/18/10, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
On 09/18/2010 09:48 AM, francesco messineo wrote:
Hello all,
sorry for the OT, but the electronic expertise of the group is too good
:-)
I'm
On 09/18/2010 02:41 PM, francesco messineo wrote:
First of all, thanks to John and Magnus for inputs and links, makes a
very good start!
On 9/18/10, Magnus Danielsonmag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
On 09/18/2010 09:48 AM, francesco messineo wrote:
Hello all,
sorry for the OT, but the
On 09/18/2010 02:41 PM, francesco messineo wrote:
First of all, thanks to John and Magnus for inputs and links, makes a
very good start!
On 9/18/10, Magnus Danielsonmag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
On 09/18/2010 09:48 AM, francesco messineo wrote:
Hello all,
sorry for the OT, but the
Hello Frank,
Down East Microwave (DEMI) in Florida will be coming out with a
stabilized VHF LO module soon.
Should be a single board for 6M, 2M, 222, 432 MHz and possibly beacon duty.
Was designed by N5AC. 10 MHz external reference.
Hope fully a single programmed board can be jumpered for
I just recalled, you do want to check out John Miles (KE5FX) GPIB
toolkit, the PN.EXE software will let you use your spectrum analyzer (if
supported) to measure phase-noise. For your purpose it should be useful
for you. For some of my phase-noise needs my tools isn't sufficient yeat
to do
On 9/18/10, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
On 09/18/2010 02:41 PM, francesco messineo wrote:
First of all, thanks to John and Magnus for inputs and links, makes a
very good start!
On 9/18/10, Magnus Danielsonmag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
On 09/18/2010 09:48 AM,
A couple of disclaimers here:
1. Leeson's oscillator model was mentioned. That
doesn't apply much to crystal oscillators. The close
in noise will be limited by the intrinsic noise of
the crystal and the far out noise will be limited by
the buffer amplifier. Leeson's model never comes
into
On 09/18/2010 04:12 PM, francesco messineo wrote:
One solution would use a stable standard oscillator, say 10 MHz, and
then use a bandpass filter to select suitable overtones for first
mixdown. You can select several options for selection of overtones, but
fixed LC-resonators comes to mind.
On 09/18/2010 04:28 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
A couple of disclaimers here:
1. Leeson's oscillator model was mentioned. That
doesn't apply much to crystal oscillators. The close
in noise will be limited by the intrinsic noise of
the crystal and the far out noise will be limited by
the
On 9/18/10, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
A simple PLL is not that complex these days. As long as you have fairly
high comparator frequency after dividing down the VCO and reference you
could get away fairly easilly. Standard programmable dividers in the TTL
family and a
Another reference on VHF crystal oscillator circuits (if you can read
German) is:
http://www.axtal.com/data/buch/Kap6.pdf
In particular Figures 6.20 and 6.21 on page 23.
Bruce
Bruce
francesco messineo wrote:
On 9/18/10, Magnus Danielsonmag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
A simple PLL is
Hi
Is -195 dbc/Hz floor good enough or is it overkill?
Is -155 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset a requirement or is -40 dbc ok?
You need to quantify what you are after before deciding on an approach. Low
noise means many different things to each of us.
Bob
On Sep 18, 2010, at 1:27 PM, francesco
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