Re: [time-nuts] Re. DIY atomic "resonator" 6GHz synthesizer from ADI

[paul swed]

But it is as Richard said and after he sent it I remembered reading about
it in the "Quantum beat".
The trick is to get that accurate frequencies sideband to land on the RB or
CS frequency. Just 1 sideband. So using a large step synthesizer and then
another to get the finer detail is a reasonable way to go.
Regards


On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 10:13 PM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:

> Hi
>
> If you make the cells in the basement (or even in most factories) the
> ability to have a wide range
> synthesizer will come in handy. The whole “6.834xxx GHz” thing is
> dependent on a number of variables.
> It is not at all uncommon to produce cells that come out 10’s or 100’s of
> KHz off of the “right number”.
> Wide range synthesizer = higher yield.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Apr 11, 2017, at 10:00 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist <
> rich...@karlquist.com> wrote:
> >
> > You always want two frequency sources.  One generates a carrier
> > frequency offset many MHz from 6.834 GHz and the other frequency
> > source modulates the carrier with a sideband that is at the
> > exact ~6.834 GHz frequency that finds the atomic line.  The
> > sideband is in turn modulated with audio to find the exact
> > center of the line.  This is now the easiest section to
> > design.
> >
> > This architecture automatically gives you gobs of resolution.
> > Of course you always have the C field for infinite resolution.
> > The other thing it does is prevent RF leaks from exciting the
> > atoms, since the strong LO is safely offset from 6.834.
> >
> > Rick N6RK
> >
> > On 4/11/2017 2:59 PM, paul swed wrote:
> >> When I read about the frequency generation in the Rb or CS there are
> >> normally many numbers associated with the actual frequency. Down to at
> >> least the 1 Hz level. Many of these PLLs are intended for multi-KHz
> steps.
> >> I speculate you might need 2 PLLs one thats very fine in I hz increments
> >> that gets added to something like these PLLs that step in 200 KHz
> >> increments.
> >> Regards
> >> Paul
> >> WB8TSL
> >>
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Re: [time-nuts] Re. DIY atomic "resonator" 6GHz synthesizer from ADI

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

If you make the cells in the basement (or even in most factories) the ability 
to have a wide range
synthesizer will come in handy. The whole “6.834xxx GHz” thing is dependent on 
a number of variables. 
It is not at all uncommon to produce cells that come out 10’s or 100’s of KHz 
off of the “right number”.
Wide range synthesizer = higher yield. 

Bob

> On Apr 11, 2017, at 10:00 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist 
>  wrote:
> 
> You always want two frequency sources.  One generates a carrier
> frequency offset many MHz from 6.834 GHz and the other frequency
> source modulates the carrier with a sideband that is at the
> exact ~6.834 GHz frequency that finds the atomic line.  The
> sideband is in turn modulated with audio to find the exact
> center of the line.  This is now the easiest section to
> design.
> 
> This architecture automatically gives you gobs of resolution.
> Of course you always have the C field for infinite resolution.
> The other thing it does is prevent RF leaks from exciting the
> atoms, since the strong LO is safely offset from 6.834.
> 
> Rick N6RK
> 
> On 4/11/2017 2:59 PM, paul swed wrote:
>> When I read about the frequency generation in the Rb or CS there are
>> normally many numbers associated with the actual frequency. Down to at
>> least the 1 Hz level. Many of these PLLs are intended for multi-KHz steps.
>> I speculate you might need 2 PLLs one thats very fine in I hz increments
>> that gets added to something like these PLLs that step in 200 KHz
>> increments.
>> Regards
>> Paul
>> WB8TSL
>> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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Re: [time-nuts] Re. DIY atomic "resonator" 6GHz synthesizer from ADI

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

You always want two frequency sources.  One generates a carrier
frequency offset many MHz from 6.834 GHz and the other frequency
source modulates the carrier with a sideband that is at the
exact ~6.834 GHz frequency that finds the atomic line.  The
sideband is in turn modulated with audio to find the exact
center of the line.  This is now the easiest section to
design.

This architecture automatically gives you gobs of resolution.
Of course you always have the C field for infinite resolution.
The other thing it does is prevent RF leaks from exciting the
atoms, since the strong LO is safely offset from 6.834.

Rick N6RK

On 4/11/2017 2:59 PM, paul swed wrote:

When I read about the frequency generation in the Rb or CS there are
normally many numbers associated with the actual frequency. Down to at
least the 1 Hz level. Many of these PLLs are intended for multi-KHz steps.
I speculate you might need 2 PLLs one thats very fine in I hz increments
that gets added to something like these PLLs that step in 200 KHz
increments.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL


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Re: [time-nuts] Re. DIY atomic "resonator" 6GHz synthesizer from ADI

[paul swed]

When I read about the frequency generation in the Rb or CS there are
normally many numbers associated with the actual frequency. Down to at
least the 1 Hz level. Many of these PLLs are intended for multi-KHz steps.
I speculate you might need 2 PLLs one thats very fine in I hz increments
that gets added to something like these PLLs that step in 200 KHz
increments.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Alex Pummer  wrote:

> the are 6GHc synthesizer chips from ADI available see here
> http://www.analog.com/en/analog-dialogue/articles/design-a-
> direct-6-ghz-local-oscillator.html
>
> 73
>
> KJ6UHN
>
> Alex
>
>
> On 4/11/2017 8:29 AM, Attila Kinali wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 07:31:01 +
>> Andre  wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone else either built an atomic clock around a bare Rb lamp module
>>> "core" or attempted
>>>
>>> to make a hydrogen maser?
>>>
>> Building my own Rb vapor cell standard or H-maser is on my list
>> of Things-I-have-to-do-before-I-die :-)
>>
>> If I had to do one of those now, I would go for a Rb vapor cell
>> with dual-resonance using an external cavity laser diode for pumping.
>>
>> The electronics for such a thing are relatively easy, if you are not
>> afraid of Jiga-Hurts and using these pesky QFN packages. But it isn't
>> cheap either. There was a discussion started by Bert[1] where I ventured
>> a rough calculation what I think it wold cost. Though I think I have
>> understimated the cost of an ECLD (it's more like 1k-5k from what I have
>> read)
>>
>>
>> Attila Kinali
>>
>> [1] search for "thinking outside the box" in the archives
>>
>>
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Re: [time-nuts] Re. DIY atomic "resonator" 6GHz synthesizer from ADI

[Alex Pummer]

the are 6GHc synthesizer chips from ADI available see here 
http://www.analog.com/en/analog-dialogue/articles/design-a-direct-6-ghz-local-oscillator.html


73

KJ6UHN

Alex


On 4/11/2017 8:29 AM, Attila Kinali wrote:

On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 07:31:01 +
Andre  wrote:


Has anyone else either built an atomic clock around a bare Rb lamp module 
"core" or attempted

to make a hydrogen maser?

Building my own Rb vapor cell standard or H-maser is on my list
of Things-I-have-to-do-before-I-die :-)

If I had to do one of those now, I would go for a Rb vapor cell
with dual-resonance using an external cavity laser diode for pumping.

The electronics for such a thing are relatively easy, if you are not
afraid of Jiga-Hurts and using these pesky QFN packages. But it isn't
cheap either. There was a discussion started by Bert[1] where I ventured
a rough calculation what I think it wold cost. Though I think I have
understimated the cost of an ECLD (it's more like 1k-5k from what I have read)


Attila Kinali

[1] search for "thinking outside the box" in the archives



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