Re: [time-nuts] Second Units? KS-24361
Hi If you look at the TDev plots or a phase plot on these units, they look a lot like a Z3801. They wander 10’s or ns as they do their “thing”. While GPS out of these receivers is good to (at most) 1 ns. That’s the resolution of the sawtooth (if they are using it). That only counts if you are looking at the 1 second to 1 second RMS deltas. The “fall off by tau” rule holds for a few decades past 1 second, but it does eventually fall apart. The GPSDO will follow GPS past a point. Bob On Nov 11, 2014, at 8:55 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Bob I will say that I am watching the noise of the pps ti in the z3811 program. Granted its been running 30 some hours now. Virtually nothing in time. My fingers are crossed it will clean up. I do like the unit quite well. Have to thank Bert for even cluing me in. So I do agree quite a nice unit. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 7:42 PM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote: Hi Here’s another way to look at the second unit - What would you pay (on an auction site) for the parts? Since there’s a warranty on the box, all would be 100% good working parts with a solid guarantee and paid shipping back: Lucent low EMI DC-DC converter “power brick” - $35 + $5 ship MTI 260 OCXO $35 + $15 ship Nice board built up with GPSDO parts $ (gotta be at least 20) + ship Metal enclosure $ (ok, it’s not that good, $5) Connectors, buffering, filtering $ something Just the two big parts in the box likely would set you back more than the cost of the second unit delivered in the US. If you are headed into a GPSDO project, the thing is a steal. Bob On Nov 10, 2014, at 1:41 AM, F. W. Bray fwb...@mminternet.com wrote: Sorry, I intended to say that this question concerns the KS-24361 units. Forgot to put that in the subject line! I have one complete setup on the way. Any thoughts as to whether it is better to get a second complete set or just go for the unit that has the GPS in it? This would be as a spare or possibly actual use. Thanks. Fred KE6CD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Second Units? KS-24361
Bob I will say that I am watching the noise of the pps ti in the z3811 program. Granted its been running 30 some hours now. Virtually nothing in time. My fingers are crossed it will clean up. I do like the unit quite well. Have to thank Bert for even cluing me in. So I do agree quite a nice unit. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 7:42 PM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote: Hi Here’s another way to look at the second unit - What would you pay (on an auction site) for the parts? Since there’s a warranty on the box, all would be 100% good working parts with a solid guarantee and paid shipping back: Lucent low EMI DC-DC converter “power brick” - $35 + $5 ship MTI 260 OCXO $35 + $15 ship Nice board built up with GPSDO parts $ (gotta be at least 20) + ship Metal enclosure $ (ok, it’s not that good, $5) Connectors, buffering, filtering $ something Just the two big parts in the box likely would set you back more than the cost of the second unit delivered in the US. If you are headed into a GPSDO project, the thing is a steal. Bob On Nov 10, 2014, at 1:41 AM, F. W. Bray fwb...@mminternet.com wrote: Sorry, I intended to say that this question concerns the KS-24361 units. Forgot to put that in the subject line! I have one complete setup on the way. Any thoughts as to whether it is better to get a second complete set or just go for the unit that has the GPS in it? This would be as a spare or possibly actual use. Thanks. Fred KE6CD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Second Units? KS-24361
Hi Paul, I saw the phase of the 10MHz signal dip by about 60ns twice today as compared to my homebrew GPSDO. Given what I know about the design of my unit, it's hard to believe it could follow the path the phase difference took, but I suppose anything's possible. Bob posted a graph showing the KS moving about +/- 15ns recently. I would certainly like to know if others have seen this big of a phase movement. It's been on about a week since the last power-off to replace REF-1. Bob - AE6RV From: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Second Units? KS-24361 Bob I will say that I am watching the noise of the pps ti in the z3811 program. Granted its been running 30 some hours now. Virtually nothing in time. My fingers are crossed it will clean up. I do like the unit quite well. Have to thank Bert for even cluing me in. So I do agree quite a nice unit. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 7:42 PM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote: Hi Here’s another way to look at the second unit - What would you pay (on an auction site) for the parts? Since there’s a warranty on the box, all would be 100% good working parts with a solid guarantee and paid shipping back: Lucent low EMI DC-DC converter “power brick” - $35 + $5 ship MTI 260 OCXO $35 + $15 ship Nice board built up with GPSDO parts $ (gotta be at least 20) + ship Metal enclosure $ (ok, it’s not that good, $5) Connectors, buffering, filtering $ something Just the two big parts in the box likely would set you back more than the cost of the second unit delivered in the US. If you are headed into a GPSDO project, the thing is a steal. Bob On Nov 10, 2014, at 1:41 AM, F. W. Bray fwb...@mminternet.com wrote: Sorry, I intended to say that this question concerns the KS-24361 units. Forgot to put that in the subject line! I have one complete setup on the way. Any thoughts as to whether it is better to get a second complete set or just go for the unit that has the GPS in it? This would be as a spare or possibly actual use. Thanks. Fred KE6CD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Second Units? KS-24361
I was thinking about snapping a pix. Though it has to be pretty small to get through time-nuts. Clearly my units still aging/adjusting a positive EFC rate. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 9:12 PM, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote: Hi Paul, I saw the phase of the 10MHz signal dip by about 60ns twice today as compared to my homebrew GPSDO. Given what I know about the design of my unit, it's hard to believe it could follow the path the phase difference took, but I suppose anything's possible. Bob posted a graph showing the KS moving about +/- 15ns recently. I would certainly like to know if others have seen this big of a phase movement. It's been on about a week since the last power-off to replace REF-1. Bob - AE6RV From: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Second Units? KS-24361 Bob I will say that I am watching the noise of the pps ti in the z3811 program. Granted its been running 30 some hours now. Virtually nothing in time. My fingers are crossed it will clean up. I do like the unit quite well. Have to thank Bert for even cluing me in. So I do agree quite a nice unit. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 7:42 PM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote: Hi Here’s another way to look at the second unit - What would you pay (on an auction site) for the parts? Since there’s a warranty on the box, all would be 100% good working parts with a solid guarantee and paid shipping back: Lucent low EMI DC-DC converter “power brick” - $35 + $5 ship MTI 260 OCXO $35 + $15 ship Nice board built up with GPSDO parts $ (gotta be at least 20) + ship Metal enclosure$ (ok, it’s not that good, $5) Connectors, buffering, filtering $ something Just the two big parts in the box likely would set you back more than the cost of the second unit delivered in the US. If you are headed into a GPSDO project, the thing is a steal. Bob On Nov 10, 2014, at 1:41 AM, F. W. Bray fwb...@mminternet.com wrote: Sorry, I intended to say that this question concerns the KS-24361 units. Forgot to put that in the subject line! I have one complete setup on the way. Any thoughts as to whether it is better to get a second complete set or just go for the unit that has the GPS in it? This would be as a spare or possibly actual use. Thanks. Fred KE6CD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Second Units? KS-24361
Paul, Large plots are ok. They just get flagged by the server for approval. /tvb (i5s) On Nov 11, 2014, at 8:03 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking about snapping a pix. Though it has to be pretty small to get through time-nuts. Clearly my units still aging/adjusting a positive EFC rate. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 9:12 PM, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote: Hi Paul, I saw the phase of the 10MHz signal dip by about 60ns twice today as compared to my homebrew GPSDO. Given what I know about the design of my unit, it's hard to believe it could follow the path the phase difference took, but I suppose anything's possible. Bob posted a graph showing the KS moving about +/- 15ns recently. I would certainly like to know if others have seen this big of a phase movement. It's been on about a week since the last power-off to replace REF-1. Bob - AE6RV From: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Second Units? KS-24361 Bob I will say that I am watching the noise of the pps ti in the z3811 program. Granted its been running 30 some hours now. Virtually nothing in time. My fingers are crossed it will clean up. I do like the unit quite well. Have to thank Bert for even cluing me in. So I do agree quite a nice unit. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 7:42 PM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote: Hi Here’s another way to look at the second unit - What would you pay (on an auction site) for the parts? Since there’s a warranty on the box, all would be 100% good working parts with a solid guarantee and paid shipping back: Lucent low EMI DC-DC converter “power brick” - $35 + $5 ship MTI 260 OCXO $35 + $15 ship Nice board built up with GPSDO parts $ (gotta be at least 20) + ship Metal enclosure$ (ok, it’s not that good, $5) Connectors, buffering, filtering $ something Just the two big parts in the box likely would set you back more than the cost of the second unit delivered in the US. If you are headed into a GPSDO project, the thing is a steal. Bob On Nov 10, 2014, at 1:41 AM, F. W. Bray fwb...@mminternet.com wrote: Sorry, I intended to say that this question concerns the KS-24361 units. Forgot to put that in the subject line! I have one complete setup on the way. Any thoughts as to whether it is better to get a second complete set or just go for the unit that has the GPS in it? This would be as a spare or possibly actual use. Thanks. Fred KE6CD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Second Units? KS-24361
Hi Right now the box with the GPS in it seems to be much more useful than the one that does not have a GPS. If they all are the same price, just buy GPS units. You can always pull the GPS out. Putting it back in is much more problematic.That assumes you are using them each on their own, and not pairing them up. If you are using them in pairs (say to get 10 MHz without any mods) then one of each would be the way to go. Bob On Nov 10, 2014, at 1:41 AM, F. W. Bray fwb...@mminternet.com wrote: Sorry, I intended to say that this question concerns the KS-24361 units. Forgot to put that in the subject line! I have one complete setup on the way. Any thoughts as to whether it is better to get a second complete set or just go for the unit that has the GPS in it? This would be as a spare or possibly actual use. Thanks. Fred KE6CD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Second Units? KS-24361
Sorry, I intended to say that this question concerns the KS-24361 units. Forgot to put that in the subject line! I have one complete setup on the way. Any thoughts as to whether it is better to get a second complete set or just go for the unit that has the GPS in it? This would be as a spare or possibly actual use. Thanks. Fred KE6CD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
