Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
The 8170 isn't smart enough to calculate the leapsecond immediately. Instead, it uses its error correction routine which takes about 4 minutes after the event to realize that it is one second off, then updates the time to match. Details quite far down the page at http://www.febo.com/pages/leapsecond_2005/ John On 2/22/2012 2:48 PM, Jim Hickstein wrote: On 2012/01/23 15:28, Jim Hickstein wrote: Reviewing the schematic for the 8170 (I'll get back to the setting coil in the clock a bit later), my unit does not seem to have Option 18 and A4-U4, the 8255A at its heart, is not populated. A pity: it would have lovely BCD outputs and an on-time pulse, just what I need. (The recent discussion of multiplexed 7-segment LED outputs tells me I don't want to try to detect :00:00 or :59:59 there.) What are the chances my EEPROMs would DTRT if I just added an 8255A to this board? Looking better today. I dragged a scope up from the basement. CS is getting hit, about 11 times, near the beginning of each second (image). I guess this means I have to design the circuit, now, and place an order for some parts. What other components should I add to complete the Option 18 installation? A3U4, the 8255A, seems to be the only thing missing, apart from A3J4, the 50-pin header that connects to a cable to bring these BCD signals out to the rear panel DD-50, also missing. For my purposes I can stop at the header. It'll be a nice place to mount a little daughterboard. This is on sheet 4 of A3, the uP board schematic, not on a separate sheet as some other options are. If I need different EEPROMs to enable Option 18, where could I get the image? (The parts and the programmer I can probably get.) Perhaps I'll do a socket and the 8255A first, just to see the output pins move as expected. This means paying Digikey for shipping twice. Oh, well. (Anyone near http://www.airnav.com/airport/KMSP got an 8255A lying around? I have some Augat 40-pin sockets left over from 1983, packrat that I am.) Maybe I can get it done in time to have it send a pulse to the clock during :59:59 _or_ :59:60. :-) I don't recall if an 8170 is quite that savvy, to produce this on its output, but the BCD encoding could do it. We'll find out, eh? And the clock will be set properly the next hour, anyway. On 2012/01/20 16:23, Jim Hickstein wrote: I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a Western Union time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock -- a nice one, in a 3-foot-high wood case. I've been watching TV with this combination for years and years but never got around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to discipline the other one. Now that Western Union no longer provides the service. :-) But it just begs to be done. I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have now misplaced), that could live inside the 8170. I figured out the minimum number of inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00 (for one second). It would close a relay, which could feed the winding-battery power to the hour-set solenoid down a pair of wires from 10 feet away. But I never built it. A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running slower and slower, so I sent it to the clock hospital. It's back and free-running nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got a better idea than my little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170? I'd like to get it across the rear panel without cutting a new hole, if I can avoid it. But maybe the right connector would do. Another time-code receiver in the TS clock, e.g. a GPS module that provides a relay closure for 1 second on the hour (if such exists) might be neater. But the living room faces north. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
Reviewing the schematic for the 8170 (I'll get back to the setting coil in the clock a bit later), my unit does not seem to have Option 18 and A4-U4, the 8255A at its heart, is not populated. A pity: it would have lovely BCD outputs and an on-time pulse, just what I need. (The recent discussion of multiplexed 7-segment LED outputs tells me I don't want to try to detect :00:00 or :59:59 there.) What are the chances my EEPROMs would DTRT if I just added an 8255A to this board? What other components should I add to complete the Option 18 installation? If I need different EEPROMs to enable Option 18, where could I get the image? (The parts and the programmer I can probably get.) On 2012/01/20 16:23, Jim Hickstein wrote: I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a Western Union time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock -- a nice one, in a 3-foot-high wood case. I've been watching TV with this combination for years and years but never got around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to discipline the other one. Now that Western Union no longer provides the service. :-) But it just begs to be done. I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have now misplaced), that could live inside the 8170. I figured out the minimum number of inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00 (for one second). It would close a relay, which could feed the winding-battery power to the hour-set solenoid down a pair of wires from 10 feet away. But I never built it. A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running slower and slower, so I sent it to the clock hospital. It's back and free-running nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got a better idea than my little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170? I'd like to get it across the rear panel without cutting a new hole, if I can avoid it. But maybe the right connector would do. Another time-code receiver in the TS clock, e.g. a GPS module that provides a relay closure for 1 second on the hour (if such exists) might be neater. But the living room faces north. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
Yahoo for real voltage power and current. Teletype style. Yes indeed the old loop currents seriously worked. No AA batteries here. ;-) When will we see a pix of this unit?? Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 9:25 PM, Brooke Clarke bro...@pacific.net wrote: Hi Jim: There are a number of options. Ken's clock clinic sells what appears to be a No. 6 Battery that has a synchronization function for the Western Union clocks. But the problem with it and the drivers for slave clocks is that they use fairly low voltage circuitry. Stock Tickers and Teletype machines are tpically run with loop voltages in the 60 to 200 Volt range. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.**end2partygovernment.com/**Brooke4Congress.htmlhttp://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html Jim Hickstein wrote: I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a Western Union time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock -- a nice one, in a 3-foot-high wood case. I've been watching TV with this combination for years and years but never got around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to discipline the other one. Now that Western Union no longer provides the service. :-) But it just begs to be done. I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have now misplaced), that could live inside the 8170. I figured out the minimum number of inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00 (for one second). It would close a relay, which could feed the winding-battery power to the hour-set solenoid down a pair of wires from 10 feet away. But I never built it. A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running slower and slower, so I sent it to the clock hospital. It's back and free-running nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got a better idea than my little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170? I'd like to get it across the rear panel without cutting a new hole, if I can avoid it. But maybe the right connector would do. Another time-code receiver in the TS clock, e.g. a GPS module that provides a relay closure for 1 second on the hour (if such exists) might be neater. But the living room faces north. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock #2
Guess I simply did not read enough threads I see the pix. Thanks On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 9:42 PM, Brooke Clarke bro...@pacific.net wrote: Hi again: Sorry sent too soon. The time constant of the loop is L/R. By increasing R the loop runs faster. Western Union ran the clocks from 200 Volts with a dropping resistor to get the desired current. When driven form say 12 Volts the clock response is sluggish, but when driven from higher voltages the response is very snappy. I think a simple blocking oscillator could be used to charge up a photo cap and dump it into one or more series connected clocks. http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC.**shtml http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC.shtml http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC2.**shtml http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC2.shtml http://www.prc68.com/I/SETSC.**shtml#IMP2http://www.prc68.com/I/SETSC.shtml#IMP2 http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC.**shtml#Lhttp://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC.shtml#L Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.**end2partygovernment.com/**Brooke4Congress.htmlhttp://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html Brooke Clarke wrote: Hi Jim: There are a number of options. Ken's clock clinic sells what appears to be a No. 6 Battery that has a synchronization function for the Western Union clocks. But the problem with it and the drivers for slave clocks is that they use fairly low voltage circuitry. Stock Tickers and Teletype machines are tpically run with loop voltages in the 60 to 200 Volt range. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.**end2partygovernment.com/**Brooke4Congress.htmlhttp://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html Jim Hickstein wrote: I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a Western Union time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock -- a nice one, in a 3-foot-high wood case. I've been watching TV with this combination for years and years but never got around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to discipline the other one. Now that Western Union no longer provides the service. :-) But it just begs to be done. I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have now misplaced), that could live inside the 8170. I figured out the minimum number of inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00 (for one second). It would close a relay, which could feed the winding-battery power to the hour-set solenoid down a pair of wires from 10 feet away. But I never built it. A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running slower and slower, so I sent it to the clock hospital. It's back and free-running nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got a better idea than my little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170? I'd like to get it across the rear panel without cutting a new hole, if I can avoid it. But maybe the right connector would do. Another time-code receiver in the TS clock, e.g. a GPS module that provides a relay closure for 1 second on the hour (if such exists) might be neater. But the living room faces north. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
On 1/22/12 1:56 PM, paul swed wrote: Yahoo for real voltage power and current. Teletype style. Yes indeed the old loop currents seriously worked. No AA batteries here. ;-) When will we see a pix of this unit?? It's my day off. :-) Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 9:25 PM, Brooke Clarkebro...@pacific.net wrote: Hi Jim: There are a number of options. Ken's clock clinic sells what appears to be a No. 6 Battery that has a synchronization function for the Western Union clocks. But the problem with it and the drivers for slave clocks is that they use fairly low voltage circuitry. Stock Tickers and Teletype machines are tpically run with loop voltages in the 60 to 200 Volt range. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.**end2partygovernment.com/**Brooke4Congress.htmlhttp://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html Jim Hickstein wrote: I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a Western Union time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock -- a nice one, in a 3-foot-high wood case. I've been watching TV with this combination for years and years but never got around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to discipline the other one. Now that Western Union no longer provides the service. :-) But it just begs to be done. I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have now misplaced), that could live inside the 8170. I figured out the minimum number of inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00 (for one second). It would close a relay, which could feed the winding-battery power to the hour-set solenoid down a pair of wires from 10 feet away. But I never built it. A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running slower and slower, so I sent it to the clock hospital. It's back and free-running nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got a better idea than my little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170? I'd like to get it across the rear panel without cutting a new hole, if I can avoid it. But maybe the right connector would do. Another time-code receiver in the TS clock, e.g. a GPS module that provides a relay closure for 1 second on the hour (if such exists) might be neater. But the living room faces north. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
OK Clark put some pix up. On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Jim Hickstein j...@jxh.com wrote: On 1/22/12 1:56 PM, paul swed wrote: Yahoo for real voltage power and current. Teletype style. Yes indeed the old loop currents seriously worked. No AA batteries here. ;-) When will we see a pix of this unit?? It's my day off. :-) Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 9:25 PM, Brooke Clarkebro...@pacific.net wrote: Hi Jim: There are a number of options. Ken's clock clinic sells what appears to be a No. 6 Battery that has a synchronization function for the Western Union clocks. But the problem with it and the drivers for slave clocks is that they use fairly low voltage circuitry. Stock Tickers and Teletype machines are tpically run with loop voltages in the 60 to 200 Volt range. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.**end2partygovernme**nt.com/**Brooke4Congress.htmlhttp://end2partygovernment.com/**Brooke4Congress.html **http://www.**end2partygovernment.com/**Brooke4Congress.htmlhttp://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html Jim Hickstein wrote: I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a Western Union time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock -- a nice one, in a 3-foot-high wood case. I've been watching TV with this combination for years and years but never got around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to discipline the other one. Now that Western Union no longer provides the service. :-) But it just begs to be done. I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have now misplaced), that could live inside the 8170. I figured out the minimum number of inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00 (for one second). It would close a relay, which could feed the winding-battery power to the hour-set solenoid down a pair of wires from 10 feet away. But I never built it. A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running slower and slower, so I sent it to the clock hospital. It's back and free-running nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got a better idea than my little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170? I'd like to get it across the rear panel without cutting a new hole, if I can avoid it. But maybe the right connector would do. Another time-code receiver in the TS clock, e.g. a GPS module that provides a relay closure for 1 second on the hour (if such exists) might be neater. But the living room faces north. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshtt**ps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshtt**ps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
On 2012/01/22 13:58, Jim Hickstein wrote: On 1/22/12 1:56 PM, paul swed wrote: Yahoo for real voltage power and current. Teletype style. Yes indeed the old loop currents seriously worked. No AA batteries here. ;-) How far will I get with my 3 D cells? They make it wind nicely, but I've been afraid to try 6V, having read somewhere (probably Brooke's pages) not to exceed 3V lest one damage something. Then again, that's the local battery, not the setting signal. (No. 6 dry cell? Dear me, I hadn't even thought of one of those for 40 years.) When will we see a pix of this unit?? It's my day off. :-) Then again, what's a day off for, if not this kind of thing? http://www.flickr.com/photos/jxh1/tags/clock/ Brooke Clarke's pix are nice, but I think I have the nicest SWCC clock out there, one of the nicest I've seen. Coincidentally, I bought it in about 1986 from a fellow named Clark (last name I don't recall), who was a member of the Minnesota horological society, or whatever it's called. A friend of mine, another member, put me on to this, and I jumped at it. (Actually, he has an even nicer one, a big Air Force unit IIRC that's about 6 feet tall, and with a mercury pendulum bob.) Took the thing back home to California, and it came with me when I moved back to Minnesota in 2003. It's been the primary time display in my house since I got it. I also still keep the Textronix carton I scrounged, that's a perfect fit, for moving it. -Jim K6JXH/0 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
NICE! Measure the resistance of the coil, and see what the current would be with the voltage you want to use. Figure out what the current might have been in the original installation. Ebay has an installation manual at auction for these clocks, may have a description of the driving circuit. In extremis, measure or estimate the coil wire size and calculate the heat loss for the actuated time with the voltage you want to use. Don Jim Hickstein On 2012/01/22 13:58, Jim Hickstein wrote: On 1/22/12 1:56 PM, paul swed wrote: Yahoo for real voltage power and current. Teletype style. Yes indeed the old loop currents seriously worked. No AA batteries here. ;-) How far will I get with my 3 D cells? They make it wind nicely, but I've been afraid to try 6V, having read somewhere (probably Brooke's pages) not to exceed 3V lest one damage something. Then again, that's the local battery, not the setting signal. (No. 6 dry cell? Dear me, I hadn't even thought of one of those for 40 years.) When will we see a pix of this unit?? It's my day off. :-) Then again, what's a day off for, if not this kind of thing? http://www.flickr.com/photos/jxh1/tags/clock/ Brooke Clarke's pix are nice, but I think I have the nicest SWCC clock out there, one of the nicest I've seen. Coincidentally, I bought it in about 1986 from a fellow named Clark (last name I don't recall), who was a member of the Minnesota horological society, or whatever it's called. A friend of mine, another member, put me on to this, and I jumped at it. (Actually, he has an even nicer one, a big Air Force unit IIRC that's about 6 feet tall, and with a mercury pendulum bob.) Took the thing back home to California, and it came with me when I moved back to Minnesota in 2003. It's been the primary time display in my house since I got it. I also still keep the Textronix carton I scrounged, that's a perfect fit, for moving it. -Jim K6JXH/0 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
Nice pixs I would think that the setting winding would be of the old teletype loop voltage and current and that the local winding battery as mentioned would have been 3-6 VDC. Nice looking clock lucky you to find such an instrument. Regards Paul. On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Jim Hickstein j...@jxh.com wrote: On 2012/01/22 13:58, Jim Hickstein wrote: On 1/22/12 1:56 PM, paul swed wrote: Yahoo for real voltage power and current. Teletype style. Yes indeed the old loop currents seriously worked. No AA batteries here. ;-) How far will I get with my 3 D cells? They make it wind nicely, but I've been afraid to try 6V, having read somewhere (probably Brooke's pages) not to exceed 3V lest one damage something. Then again, that's the local battery, not the setting signal. (No. 6 dry cell? Dear me, I hadn't even thought of one of those for 40 years.) When will we see a pix of this unit?? It's my day off. :-) Then again, what's a day off for, if not this kind of thing? http://www.flickr.com/photos/**jxh1/tags/clock/http://www.flickr.com/photos/jxh1/tags/clock/ Brooke Clarke's pix are nice, but I think I have the nicest SWCC clock out there, one of the nicest I've seen. Coincidentally, I bought it in about 1986 from a fellow named Clark (last name I don't recall), who was a member of the Minnesota horological society, or whatever it's called. A friend of mine, another member, put me on to this, and I jumped at it. (Actually, he has an even nicer one, a big Air Force unit IIRC that's about 6 feet tall, and with a mercury pendulum bob.) Took the thing back home to California, and it came with me when I moved back to Minnesota in 2003. It's been the primary time display in my house since I got it. I also still keep the Textronix carton I scrounged, that's a perfect fit, for moving it. -Jim K6JXH/0 __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
On 2012/01/22 14:56, Don Latham wrote: NICE! Measure the resistance of the coil, and see what the current would be with the voltage you want to use. Figure out what the current might have been in the original installation. Ebay has an installation manual at auction for these clocks, may have a description of the driving circuit. I hate to pay twenty bucks for a PDF, or to pay twenty bucks just to find out. If it's anything like this: http://electric-clocks.com/SWCC/ ... it doesn't say. The winding battery, and the setting signal, were supplied, and the installer didn't need to know the specs. But, then again, I can't afford to experiment too broadly and damage my museum piece. I think the guy who recently cleaned and repaired the movement tested this coil. I'll call him back and ask what he put on it. In extremis, measure or estimate the coil wire size and calculate the heat loss for the actuated time with the voltage you want to use. Don ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
Hi Teletype loop current as in 20 ma through the coil via a dropping resistor off of 125 vdc. Bob On Jan 22, 2012, at 4:06 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Nice pixs I would think that the setting winding would be of the old teletype loop voltage and current and that the local winding battery as mentioned would have been 3-6 VDC. Nice looking clock lucky you to find such an instrument. Regards Paul. On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Jim Hickstein j...@jxh.com wrote: On 2012/01/22 13:58, Jim Hickstein wrote: On 1/22/12 1:56 PM, paul swed wrote: Yahoo for real voltage power and current. Teletype style. Yes indeed the old loop currents seriously worked. No AA batteries here. ;-) How far will I get with my 3 D cells? They make it wind nicely, but I've been afraid to try 6V, having read somewhere (probably Brooke's pages) not to exceed 3V lest one damage something. Then again, that's the local battery, not the setting signal. (No. 6 dry cell? Dear me, I hadn't even thought of one of those for 40 years.) When will we see a pix of this unit?? It's my day off. :-) Then again, what's a day off for, if not this kind of thing? http://www.flickr.com/photos/**jxh1/tags/clock/http://www.flickr.com/photos/jxh1/tags/clock/ Brooke Clarke's pix are nice, but I think I have the nicest SWCC clock out there, one of the nicest I've seen. Coincidentally, I bought it in about 1986 from a fellow named Clark (last name I don't recall), who was a member of the Minnesota horological society, or whatever it's called. A friend of mine, another member, put me on to this, and I jumped at it. (Actually, he has an even nicer one, a big Air Force unit IIRC that's about 6 feet tall, and with a mercury pendulum bob.) Took the thing back home to California, and it came with me when I moved back to Minnesota in 2003. It's been the primary time display in my house since I got it. I also still keep the Textronix carton I scrounged, that's a perfect fit, for moving it. -Jim K6JXH/0 __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
Hi: Synchronizer coil data at: http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC.shtml#SC - old 2 coil sync and http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC2.shtml#SC - newer single coil sync The WU central office used a 200 VDC supply and the loop drove a number of series connected sync coils. A large ceramic tube variable resistor was used to set the loop current. It's amazing how much snappier the sync action is when the loop resistance is raised, i.e. shorter time constant/higher loop voltage. I think something like a throwaway camera flash circuit could be charged up maybe a minute before the top of the hour and then dumped into the sync coil a few (TBD) ms prior to the exact top of the hour. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html Jim Hickstein wrote: On 2012/01/22 14:56, Don Latham wrote: NICE! Measure the resistance of the coil, and see what the current would be with the voltage you want to use. Figure out what the current might have been in the original installation. Ebay has an installation manual at auction for these clocks, may have a description of the driving circuit. I hate to pay twenty bucks for a PDF, or to pay twenty bucks just to find out. If it's anything like this: http://electric-clocks.com/SWCC/ ... it doesn't say. The winding battery, and the setting signal, were supplied, and the installer didn't need to know the specs. But, then again, I can't afford to experiment too broadly and damage my museum piece. I think the guy who recently cleaned and repaired the movement tested this coil. I'll call him back and ask what he put on it. In extremis, measure or estimate the coil wire size and calculate the heat loss for the actuated time with the voltage you want to use. Don ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
On 2012/01/22 15:29, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Teletype loop current as in 20 ma through the coil via a dropping resistor off of 125 vdc. Value for the dropping resistor? (I know, I'm an Extra, and I used to design digital circuits, so I should know this stuff. But I've been in software for a long time. Let's see E over I R.) I measured the setting coil at the terminals: 11.5 ohms. To limit 125 VDC to 20mA, this would need an additional 6.2 Kohms. I suppose that represents the metallic circuit back to WU plus a bunch of other 11.5-ohm clocks on the same circuit, plus a compensating resistor back at the head end? Locally, a D cell (or 3 in series, which I have), with about 200 more ohms, might do. (Reaches into desk drawer.) Let's see if I still have that bunch of 100-ohm resistors left over from making an ISDN terminator. Why, yes! Quarter-watt. P over I E. 90mW. Eh, it probably won't blow up. I tried measuring the winding coil, too: 0.1 ohms, but I'm not sure I was getting it in the right place. And now I've put the face back on the clock. Otherwise I couldn't tell what time it was! I am really trained to look at that spot on the wall for this information. While the SWCC was in the hospital (for over a year) I had to buy another clock to put there. The blank spot was driving me crazy. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
Hi Jim: On web page: http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC2.shtml#SC I have data from Henry W. that says 120 V (my memory was wrong on the 200 V) and he says 250 ma. This will give about 66 times faster response time than using 3 Volts. I'm spending time on this because with low loop voltage the action is so sluggish that it will barely work or for a clock that's not brand new and properly oiled may not work at all. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html Jim Hickstein wrote: On 2012/01/22 15:29, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Teletype loop current as in 20 ma through the coil via a dropping resistor off of 125 vdc. Value for the dropping resistor? (I know, I'm an Extra, and I used to design digital circuits, so I should know this stuff. But I've been in software for a long time. Let's see E over I R.) I measured the setting coil at the terminals: 11.5 ohms. To limit 125 VDC to 20mA, this would need an additional 6.2 Kohms. I suppose that represents the metallic circuit back to WU plus a bunch of other 11.5-ohm clocks on the same circuit, plus a compensating resistor back at the head end? Locally, a D cell (or 3 in series, which I have), with about 200 more ohms, might do. (Reaches into desk drawer.) Let's see if I still have that bunch of 100-ohm resistors left over from making an ISDN terminator. Why, yes! Quarter-watt. P over I E. 90mW. Eh, it probably won't blow up. I tried measuring the winding coil, too: 0.1 ohms, but I'm not sure I was getting it in the right place. And now I've put the face back on the clock. Otherwise I couldn't tell what time it was! I am really trained to look at that spot on the wall for this information. While the SWCC was in the hospital (for over a year) I had to buy another clock to put there. The blank spot was driving me crazy. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
On 2012/01/22 17:03, Brooke Clarke wrote: Hi Jim: On web page: http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC2.shtml#SC I have data from Henry W. that says 120 V (my memory was wrong on the 200 V) and he says 250 ma. This will give about 66 times faster response time than using 3 Volts. Oh, I was reading the dual-coil section. I'm spending time on this because with low loop voltage the action is so sluggish that it will barely work or for a clock that's not brand new and properly oiled may not work at all. Got it, thanks. Since I have 4.5V easily obtainable, and a freshly cleaned and oiled clock, I may give that a shot first, with or without the 200 ohms. Then I'll know better what you're talking about. I don't mind if it's a little sluggish. I just want to keep the thing from drifting a minute a week, which is about where I have the pendulum adjusted now. The local temperature variations introduce significant error. The pendulum rod seems to be of wood, without much in the way of temperature compensation. But of course, with the setting signal, it didn't need to free-run with high accuracy. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
Hi 6K is about right. The resistor was typically a big ceramic wire wound 10K variable. No guarantee it's right for a clock, just that it's right for a teletype. Bob On Jan 22, 2012, at 5:46 PM, Jim Hickstein j...@jxh.com wrote: On 2012/01/22 15:29, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Teletype loop current as in 20 ma through the coil via a dropping resistor off of 125 vdc. Value for the dropping resistor? (I know, I'm an Extra, and I used to design digital circuits, so I should know this stuff. But I've been in software for a long time. Let's see E over I R.) I measured the setting coil at the terminals: 11.5 ohms. To limit 125 VDC to 20mA, this would need an additional 6.2 Kohms. I suppose that represents the metallic circuit back to WU plus a bunch of other 11.5-ohm clocks on the same circuit, plus a compensating resistor back at the head end? Locally, a D cell (or 3 in series, which I have), with about 200 more ohms, might do. (Reaches into desk drawer.) Let's see if I still have that bunch of 100-ohm resistors left over from making an ISDN terminator. Why, yes! Quarter-watt. P over I E. 90mW. Eh, it probably won't blow up. I tried measuring the winding coil, too: 0.1 ohms, but I'm not sure I was getting it in the right place. And now I've put the face back on the clock. Otherwise I couldn't tell what time it was! I am really trained to look at that spot on the wall for this information. While the SWCC was in the hospital (for over a year) I had to buy another clock to put there. The blank spot was driving me crazy. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
Jim, If your Western Union clock is similar to the type used in broadcasting, you might want a setting pulse that starts at 59:59 and ends at 00:00 . The reason is that at 59:59 the magnet pulls the second hand to the 12 o'clock position and releases it on the hour. The one-second difference might seem trivial, but it's actually about three words for an announcer beginning a network broadcast. When Western Union got out of the clock business in the late 1970s (following a technician strike where the master clocks were ignored and service deteriorated) the company I worked for purchased the clock installation from Western Union (for $75 per clock as I remember) and we installed a digital master system. The Western Union clocks were all connected in series and driven as a constant-current teletype type loop. We had wire-wrap logic panels associated with the digital master time system. Signals for the W. U. clocks, for alerting control rooms before newscasts, starting recordings, etc., were implemented by simply adding chips, DIP relays, 14/16-pin boards with components such as timing capacitors, and wire-wraping the underside pins. I/O was implemented with those 14 and 16-pin DIP connectors on one end of ribbon cables -- the other ends being terminated on barrier strips on rack wall panels. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
Exellent intel, thanks! The face has a penciled legend I C Depot which I suppose stands for Illinois Central, the railroad. But I would think mine works the same way as all the others. The coil holds down a follower against a cam, so the :59:59 thing makes sense. I will check this out by just doing it with a button at first. On Jan 21, 2012, at 9:25, brucekar...@aol.com wrote: Jim, If your Western Union clock is similar to the type used in broadcasting, you might want a setting pulse that starts at 59:59 and ends at 00:00 . The reason is that at 59:59 the magnet pulls the second hand to the 12 o'clock position and releases it on the hour. The one-second difference might seem trivial, but it's actually about three words for an announcer beginning a network broadcast. When Western Union got out of the clock business in the late 1970s (following a technician strike where the master clocks were ignored and service deteriorated) the company I worked for purchased the clock installation from Western Union (for $75 per clock as I remember) and we installed a digital master system. The Western Union clocks were all connected in series and driven as a constant-current teletype type loop. We had wire-wrap logic panels associated with the digital master time system. Signals for the W. U. clocks, for alerting control rooms before newscasts, starting recordings, etc., were implemented by simply adding chips, DIP relays, 14/16-pin boards with components such as timing capacitors, and wire-wraping the underside pins. I/O was implemented with those 14 and 16-pin DIP connectors on one end of ribbon cables -- the other ends being terminated on barrier strips on rack wall panels. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
Hi Jim: There are a number of options. Ken's clock clinic sells what appears to be a No. 6 Battery that has a synchronization function for the Western Union clocks. But the problem with it and the drivers for slave clocks is that they use fairly low voltage circuitry. Stock Tickers and Teletype machines are tpically run with loop voltages in the 60 to 200 Volt range. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html Jim Hickstein wrote: I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a Western Union time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock -- a nice one, in a 3-foot-high wood case. I've been watching TV with this combination for years and years but never got around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to discipline the other one. Now that Western Union no longer provides the service. :-) But it just begs to be done. I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have now misplaced), that could live inside the 8170. I figured out the minimum number of inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00 (for one second). It would close a relay, which could feed the winding-battery power to the hour-set solenoid down a pair of wires from 10 feet away. But I never built it. A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running slower and slower, so I sent it to the clock hospital. It's back and free-running nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got a better idea than my little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170? I'd like to get it across the rear panel without cutting a new hole, if I can avoid it. But maybe the right connector would do. Another time-code receiver in the TS clock, e.g. a GPS module that provides a relay closure for 1 second on the hour (if such exists) might be neater. But the living room faces north. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock #2
Hi again: Sorry sent too soon. The time constant of the loop is L/R. By increasing R the loop runs faster. Western Union ran the clocks from 200 Volts with a dropping resistor to get the desired current. When driven form say 12 Volts the clock response is sluggish, but when driven from higher voltages the response is very snappy. I think a simple blocking oscillator could be used to charge up a photo cap and dump it into one or more series connected clocks. http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC.shtml http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC2.shtml http://www.prc68.com/I/SETSC.shtml#IMP2 http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC.shtml#L Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html Brooke Clarke wrote: Hi Jim: There are a number of options. Ken's clock clinic sells what appears to be a No. 6 Battery that has a synchronization function for the Western Union clocks. But the problem with it and the drivers for slave clocks is that they use fairly low voltage circuitry. Stock Tickers and Teletype machines are tpically run with loop voltages in the 60 to 200 Volt range. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html Jim Hickstein wrote: I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a Western Union time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock -- a nice one, in a 3-foot-high wood case. I've been watching TV with this combination for years and years but never got around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to discipline the other one. Now that Western Union no longer provides the service. :-) But it just begs to be done. I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have now misplaced), that could live inside the 8170. I figured out the minimum number of inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00 (for one second). It would close a relay, which could feed the winding-battery power to the hour-set solenoid down a pair of wires from 10 feet away. But I never built it. A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running slower and slower, so I sent it to the clock hospital. It's back and free-running nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got a better idea than my little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170? I'd like to get it across the rear panel without cutting a new hole, if I can avoid it. But maybe the right connector would do. Another time-code receiver in the TS clock, e.g. a GPS module that provides a relay closure for 1 second on the hour (if such exists) might be neater. But the living room faces north. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a Western Union time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock -- a nice one, in a 3-foot-high wood case. I've been watching TV with this combination for years and years but never got around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to discipline the other one. Now that Western Union no longer provides the service. :-) But it just begs to be done. I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have now misplaced), that could live inside the 8170. I figured out the minimum number of inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00 (for one second). It would close a relay, which could feed the winding-battery power to the hour-set solenoid down a pair of wires from 10 feet away. But I never built it. A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running slower and slower, so I sent it to the clock hospital. It's back and free-running nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got a better idea than my little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170? I'd like to get it across the rear panel without cutting a new hole, if I can avoid it. But maybe the right connector would do. Another time-code receiver in the TS clock, e.g. a GPS module that provides a relay closure for 1 second on the hour (if such exists) might be neater. But the living room faces north. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 - SWCC clock
Some of the spectracoms like my 8170 actually put out timecodes and had other options that were clever. It really depends on your comfort with technology. Nothing at all wrong with a detector using 74ls30s or any other mix of logic hitting a monostable and then a power transistor. Snitching its voltage from the 8170 supply. Next level any of the very simple micros if you have a flare for a little programming more so then an iron. What you needs very reasonable. Please share a pix of the WU clock. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Jim Hickstein j...@jxh.com wrote: I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a Western Union time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock -- a nice one, in a 3-foot-high wood case. I've been watching TV with this combination for years and years but never got around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to discipline the other one. Now that Western Union no longer provides the service. :-) But it just begs to be done. I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have now misplaced), that could live inside the 8170. I figured out the minimum number of inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00 (for one second). It would close a relay, which could feed the winding-battery power to the hour-set solenoid down a pair of wires from 10 feet away. But I never built it. A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running slower and slower, so I sent it to the clock hospital. It's back and free-running nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got a better idea than my little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170? I'd like to get it across the rear panel without cutting a new hole, if I can avoid it. But maybe the right connector would do. Another time-code receiver in the TS clock, e.g. a GPS module that provides a relay closure for 1 second on the hour (if such exists) might be neater. But the living room faces north. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
