Re: [time-nuts] eLORAN on the air for 30 days

[Charles Steinmetz]

Magnus wrote:


 You describe why I say it's clearly not dead yet.


No, as I said, it is well and truly dead -- all that remains is to sign 
the death certificate.  The decisionmakers have made their final 
decisions, and further "tests," demonstrations, and whining by 
proponents is not going to sway them.


What I described as the only possible chance doesn't indicate signs of 
life -- it only raises the miraculous (literally) specter of 
re-animation of the corpse in case of a chain of events as unlikely to 
occur as the virgin birth of a human.  Nothing that has happened to date 
(in the way of what some might see as "wake-up calls") has made a 
picogram of difference to US regulators and policymakers re: eLORAN. 
Certainly not the Paris attacks.


Best regards,

Charles


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Re: [time-nuts] eLORAN on the air for 30 days

[Charles Steinmetz]

Magnus wrote:


It's interesting in that it's clearly not dead yet, rather the opposite.


No, it's well and truly dead.  Of the people I know on the political and 
regulatory sides, not one thinks there is even the slightest possibility 
of a revival.  The only chance appears to be if, before the final "No" 
is set in stone, GPS suffered an actual (not hypothetical) breakdown and 
people died because the military or first responders couldn't do their jobs.


In many ways, it's reminiscent of the LightSquared fiasco, which also 
dragged on and on to its inevitable and universally foreseen (by people 
in the know) conclusion.


Best regards,

Charles


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Re: [time-nuts] eLORAN on the air for 30 days

[Bob Camp]

Hi

> On Oct 25, 2016, at 7:30 PM, Magnus Danielson  
> wrote:
> 
> Charles,
> 
> On 10/26/2016 01:10 AM, Charles Steinmetz wrote:
>> Magnus wrote:
>> 
>>> It's interesting in that it's clearly not dead yet, rather the opposite.
>> 
>> No, it's well and truly dead.  Of the people I know on the political and
>> regulatory sides, not one thinks there is even the slightest possibility
>> of a revival.  The only chance appears to be if, before the final "No"
>> is set in stone, GPS suffered an actual (not hypothetical) breakdown and
>> people died because the military or first responders couldn't do their
>> jobs.
>> 
>> In many ways, it's reminiscent of the LightSquared fiasco, which also
>> dragged on and on to its inevitable and universally foreseen (by people
>> in the know) conclusion.
> 
> You describe why I say it's clearly not dead yet.
> 
> The 26th Jan issue made people jump.
> 
> There is a raised awareness that signal redundancy needs to be achieved one 
> way or another. eLoran keeps getting mentioned and is being studies by some.
> 
> I still doubt it will get of the ground again.
> 
> If it where available, it would help to serve some use. Won't do all the 
> things we need.
> 
> I hear both sides mumble. The re-investment is where it probably will fail.

Indeed, there is an enormous amount of money required to add a “backup” timing 
system into an already fielded setup. The market forces on things like cell 
base stations
are pushing them towards less redundancy not more redundancy in timing. Those 
economic realities are not going away any time soon. None of the cell carriers 
are
going to plunk down big money to replace lots of gear unless there is something 
forcing them to do it. They are hardly the only network operators who have those
pressures ….

Bob

> 
> Cheers,
> Magnus
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Re: [time-nuts] eLORAN on the air for 30 days

[Magnus Danielson]

Charles,

On 10/26/2016 01:10 AM, Charles Steinmetz wrote:

Magnus wrote:


It's interesting in that it's clearly not dead yet, rather the opposite.


No, it's well and truly dead.  Of the people I know on the political and
regulatory sides, not one thinks there is even the slightest possibility
of a revival.  The only chance appears to be if, before the final "No"
is set in stone, GPS suffered an actual (not hypothetical) breakdown and
people died because the military or first responders couldn't do their
jobs.

In many ways, it's reminiscent of the LightSquared fiasco, which also
dragged on and on to its inevitable and universally foreseen (by people
in the know) conclusion.


You describe why I say it's clearly not dead yet.

The 26th Jan issue made people jump.

There is a raised awareness that signal redundancy needs to be achieved 
one way or another. eLoran keeps getting mentioned and is being studies 
by some.


I still doubt it will get of the ground again.

If it where available, it would help to serve some use. Won't do all the 
things we need.


I hear both sides mumble. The re-investment is where it probably will fail.

Cheers,
Magnus
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Re: [time-nuts] eLORAN on the air for 30 days

[paul swed]

Wildwood is a single transmitter and antenna. Not even a full power site.
It was for testing. That said its key function is to distribute time
frequency and messages. Not navigation. But evidently with a single tower
navigation is possible.
They are using advanced coding that seems to help the signal work well in
buildings to a degree.
But I am not an expert or anything like that on the navigation method.
I can say the frequency stability was very good and with the coding even
better.

I am just happy a LORAN transmitter is on the air with a HP 5071 on the
other end. Good enough for my meager use.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 6:15 PM, Tim Shoppa  wrote:

> I'm all for a diversity of systems - putting all our eggs in the GPS basket
> seems unwise (and I maintain WWV receivers hooked to NTP at home!)
>
> That said, what kind of demonstration can they do with a single LORAN site?
> Or is "Wildwood" a complex with both a primary and a secondary at a short
> demonstration baseline?
>
> Tim N3QE
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:33 AM, paul swed  wrote:
>
> > Bob
> > The system works and they are using the system for various demonstrations
> > to government types. It is indeed Washingtons speed to resolution thats
> > taking the time.
> > So my crystal ball says nothing at all on what and when.
> > But that said the fact that its on for a month lets me check some
> > references.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:33 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > Has there been any indication of just what they eventually will be
> doing?
> > > Is this a never ending series of experiments or do they now have plans
> > > to put something more perminanalt on the air?
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > > > On Oct 24, 2016, at 3:23 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The Wildwood, NJ eLoran transmitter will be continuously broadcasting
> > > from
> > > > 0900 (EST) on 21 October 2016 through 1200 (EST) on 22 November 2016.
> > > > Wildwood will be broadcasting as 8970 Master and Secondary most of
> the
> > > time
> > > > but occasionally may operate at other rates.
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Paul
> > > > WB8TSL
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Re: [time-nuts] eLORAN on the air for 30 days

[Bob Camp]

Hi

All of the systems we have today were designed in an era of Loran being
available. The designers of CDMA actually had more experience with Loran
timing than they did with GPS. Despite all that *none* of the systems we
have today picket Loran as their time source. Without a regulation to make
it happen, simple availability isn’t going to do much of anything.

Bob

> On Oct 25, 2016, at 6:15 PM, Tim Shoppa  wrote:
> 
> I'm all for a diversity of systems - putting all our eggs in the GPS basket
> seems unwise (and I maintain WWV receivers hooked to NTP at home!)
> 
> That said, what kind of demonstration can they do with a single LORAN site?
> Or is "Wildwood" a complex with both a primary and a secondary at a short
> demonstration baseline?
> 
> Tim N3QE
> 
> 
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:33 AM, paul swed  wrote:
> 
>> Bob
>> The system works and they are using the system for various demonstrations
>> to government types. It is indeed Washingtons speed to resolution thats
>> taking the time.
>> So my crystal ball says nothing at all on what and when.
>> But that said the fact that its on for a month lets me check some
>> references.
>> Regards
>> Paul
>> WB8TSL
>> 
>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:33 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> Has there been any indication of just what they eventually will be doing?
>>> Is this a never ending series of experiments or do they now have plans
>>> to put something more perminanalt on the air?
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
 On Oct 24, 2016, at 3:23 PM, paul swed  wrote:
 
 The Wildwood, NJ eLoran transmitter will be continuously broadcasting
>>> from
 0900 (EST) on 21 October 2016 through 1200 (EST) on 22 November 2016.
 Wildwood will be broadcasting as 8970 Master and Secondary most of the
>>> time
 but occasionally may operate at other rates.
 
 Regards
 Paul
 WB8TSL
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
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Re: [time-nuts] eLORAN on the air for 30 days

[Bob Camp]

Hi

It is indeed difficult to see how a “generic” system will be able to do as well 
as GPS. 
It is also tough to see how systems that are designed with GPS time performance
in mind (100 ns is trivial) will do with a degraded signal. 

Bob

> On Oct 25, 2016, at 5:20 PM, Magnus Danielson  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The usefulness of alternative signals is less and less debated. There are 
> some strong opponents to eLoran. At the same time, the use of precision 
> timing and the dependency, the trouble modes etc. is to some degree still 
> dawning on decision makers. eLoran still have some issues due to the 
> frequency range used. Accepting foreign [sic] signals remains somewhat of an 
> issue. Useful and practical use of network for backup remains to be to be 
> seen in wider use. The popular options discussed is neither practical or easy 
> to deploy. Then again, I'm biased in that regard.
> 
> 26 Jan did some good, and upcoming leap-second comes very timely in that 
> regard.
> 
> Cheers,
> Magnus
> 
> On 10/25/2016 09:53 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> Given that the transmit end of these systems is actually the cheap. quick, 
>> and easy
>> part of it (even with GPS), not making a decision for years is a bad thing. 
>> The longer
>> they push out a system decision, the further out any sort of target use 
>> gets. Running
>> Loran with antiques in my or your basement does not count in this regard. 
>> What
>> counts is putting it into any sort of infrastructure use. That will *only* 
>> happen if
>> regulations require it. Even if they do, it’s a “several decades” sort of 
>> process
>> to make that all happen.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 25, 2016, at 3:24 PM, paul swed  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes
>>> I think we are struggling with what to do. Support a low cost solution or
>>> invest in yet another satellite system at $$ that went bust and is
>>> working its way back to life.
>>> Then it hits the government. God knows the answer to that. Goes to the
>>> highest bidder. :-)
>>> Best get off that thread. Not useful.
>>> Signals running fine and everything here is happy. The Austrons and SRS.
>>> All down to the -11th and thats on a so so GPSDO.
>>> Regards
>>> Paul.
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Magnus Danielson <
>>> mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote:
>>> 
 It's interesting in that it's clearly not dead yet, rather the opposite.
 
 Cheers,
 Magnus
 
 On 10/25/2016 04:33 PM, paul swed wrote:
 
> Bob
> The system works and they are using the system for various demonstrations
> to government types. It is indeed Washingtons speed to resolution thats
> taking the time.
> So my crystal ball says nothing at all on what and when.
> But that said the fact that its on for a month lets me check some
> references.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> 
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:33 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
> 
> Hi
>> 
>> Has there been any indication of just what they eventually will be doing?
>> Is this a never ending series of experiments or do they now have plans
>> to put something more perminanalt on the air?
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> On Oct 24, 2016, at 3:23 PM, paul swed  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The Wildwood, NJ eLoran transmitter will be continuously broadcasting
>>> 
>> from
>> 
>>> 0900 (EST) on 21 October 2016 through 1200 (EST) on 22 November 2016.
>>> Wildwood will be broadcasting as 8970 Master and Secondary most of the
>>> 
>> time
>> 
>>> but occasionally may operate at other rates.
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> Paul
>>> WB8TSL
>>> ___
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>>> 
>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> 
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
>> 
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>> 

Re: [time-nuts] eLORAN on the air for 30 days

[Tim Shoppa]

I'm all for a diversity of systems - putting all our eggs in the GPS basket
seems unwise (and I maintain WWV receivers hooked to NTP at home!)

That said, what kind of demonstration can they do with a single LORAN site?
Or is "Wildwood" a complex with both a primary and a secondary at a short
demonstration baseline?

Tim N3QE


On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:33 AM, paul swed  wrote:

> Bob
> The system works and they are using the system for various demonstrations
> to government types. It is indeed Washingtons speed to resolution thats
> taking the time.
> So my crystal ball says nothing at all on what and when.
> But that said the fact that its on for a month lets me check some
> references.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:33 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > Has there been any indication of just what they eventually will be doing?
> > Is this a never ending series of experiments or do they now have plans
> > to put something more perminanalt on the air?
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > > On Oct 24, 2016, at 3:23 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> > >
> > > The Wildwood, NJ eLoran transmitter will be continuously broadcasting
> > from
> > > 0900 (EST) on 21 October 2016 through 1200 (EST) on 22 November 2016.
> > > Wildwood will be broadcasting as 8970 Master and Secondary most of the
> > time
> > > but occasionally may operate at other rates.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Paul
> > > WB8TSL
> > > ___
> > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > > and follow the instructions there.
> >
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> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
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Re: [time-nuts] eLORAN on the air for 30 days

[Magnus Danielson]

Hi,

The usefulness of alternative signals is less and less debated. There 
are some strong opponents to eLoran. At the same time, the use of 
precision timing and the dependency, the trouble modes etc. is to some 
degree still dawning on decision makers. eLoran still have some issues 
due to the frequency range used. Accepting foreign [sic] signals remains 
somewhat of an issue. Useful and practical use of network for backup 
remains to be to be seen in wider use. The popular options discussed is 
neither practical or easy to deploy. Then again, I'm biased in that regard.


26 Jan did some good, and upcoming leap-second comes very timely in that 
regard.


Cheers,
Magnus

On 10/25/2016 09:53 PM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

Given that the transmit end of these systems is actually the cheap. quick, and 
easy
part of it (even with GPS), not making a decision for years is a bad thing. The 
longer
they push out a system decision, the further out any sort of target use gets. 
Running
Loran with antiques in my or your basement does not count in this regard. What
counts is putting it into any sort of infrastructure use. That will *only* 
happen if
regulations require it. Even if they do, it’s a “several decades” sort of 
process
to make that all happen.

Bob



On Oct 25, 2016, at 3:24 PM, paul swed  wrote:

Yes
I think we are struggling with what to do. Support a low cost solution or
invest in yet another satellite system at $$ that went bust and is
working its way back to life.
Then it hits the government. God knows the answer to that. Goes to the
highest bidder. :-)
Best get off that thread. Not useful.
Signals running fine and everything here is happy. The Austrons and SRS.
All down to the -11th and thats on a so so GPSDO.
Regards
Paul.

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Magnus Danielson <
mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote:


It's interesting in that it's clearly not dead yet, rather the opposite.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 10/25/2016 04:33 PM, paul swed wrote:


Bob
The system works and they are using the system for various demonstrations
to government types. It is indeed Washingtons speed to resolution thats
taking the time.
So my crystal ball says nothing at all on what and when.
But that said the fact that its on for a month lets me check some
references.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:33 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:

Hi


Has there been any indication of just what they eventually will be doing?
Is this a never ending series of experiments or do they now have plans
to put something more perminanalt on the air?

Bob

On Oct 24, 2016, at 3:23 PM, paul swed  wrote:


The Wildwood, NJ eLoran transmitter will be continuously broadcasting


from


0900 (EST) on 21 October 2016 through 1200 (EST) on 22 November 2016.
Wildwood will be broadcasting as 8970 Master and Secondary most of the


time


but occasionally may operate at other rates.

Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
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Re: [time-nuts] eLORAN on the air for 30 days

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Given that the transmit end of these systems is actually the cheap. quick, and 
easy
part of it (even with GPS), not making a decision for years is a bad thing. The 
longer
they push out a system decision, the further out any sort of target use gets. 
Running
Loran with antiques in my or your basement does not count in this regard. What 
counts is putting it into any sort of infrastructure use. That will *only* 
happen if 
regulations require it. Even if they do, it’s a “several decades” sort of 
process
to make that all happen.

Bob


> On Oct 25, 2016, at 3:24 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> 
> Yes
> I think we are struggling with what to do. Support a low cost solution or
> invest in yet another satellite system at $$ that went bust and is
> working its way back to life.
> Then it hits the government. God knows the answer to that. Goes to the
> highest bidder. :-)
> Best get off that thread. Not useful.
> Signals running fine and everything here is happy. The Austrons and SRS.
> All down to the -11th and thats on a so so GPSDO.
> Regards
> Paul.
> 
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Magnus Danielson <
> mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote:
> 
>> It's interesting in that it's clearly not dead yet, rather the opposite.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Magnus
>> 
>> On 10/25/2016 04:33 PM, paul swed wrote:
>> 
>>> Bob
>>> The system works and they are using the system for various demonstrations
>>> to government types. It is indeed Washingtons speed to resolution thats
>>> taking the time.
>>> So my crystal ball says nothing at all on what and when.
>>> But that said the fact that its on for a month lets me check some
>>> references.
>>> Regards
>>> Paul
>>> WB8TSL
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:33 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi
 
 Has there been any indication of just what they eventually will be doing?
 Is this a never ending series of experiments or do they now have plans
 to put something more perminanalt on the air?
 
 Bob
 
 On Oct 24, 2016, at 3:23 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> 
> The Wildwood, NJ eLoran transmitter will be continuously broadcasting
> 
 from
 
> 0900 (EST) on 21 October 2016 through 1200 (EST) on 22 November 2016.
> Wildwood will be broadcasting as 8970 Master and Secondary most of the
> 
 time
 
> but occasionally may operate at other rates.
> 
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> ___
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 mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 
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 mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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 ___
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Re: [time-nuts] eLORAN on the air for 30 days

[paul swed]

Yes
I think we are struggling with what to do. Support a low cost solution or
invest in yet another satellite system at $$ that went bust and is
working its way back to life.
Then it hits the government. God knows the answer to that. Goes to the
highest bidder. :-)
Best get off that thread. Not useful.
Signals running fine and everything here is happy. The Austrons and SRS.
All down to the -11th and thats on a so so GPSDO.
Regards
Paul.

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Magnus Danielson <
mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote:

> It's interesting in that it's clearly not dead yet, rather the opposite.
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
>
> On 10/25/2016 04:33 PM, paul swed wrote:
>
>> Bob
>> The system works and they are using the system for various demonstrations
>> to government types. It is indeed Washingtons speed to resolution thats
>> taking the time.
>> So my crystal ball says nothing at all on what and when.
>> But that said the fact that its on for a month lets me check some
>> references.
>> Regards
>> Paul
>> WB8TSL
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:33 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>>
>>> Has there been any indication of just what they eventually will be doing?
>>> Is this a never ending series of experiments or do they now have plans
>>> to put something more perminanalt on the air?
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>> On Oct 24, 2016, at 3:23 PM, paul swed  wrote:

 The Wildwood, NJ eLoran transmitter will be continuously broadcasting

>>> from
>>>
 0900 (EST) on 21 October 2016 through 1200 (EST) on 22 November 2016.
 Wildwood will be broadcasting as 8970 Master and Secondary most of the

>>> time
>>>
 but occasionally may operate at other rates.

 Regards
 Paul
 WB8TSL
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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Re: [time-nuts] eLORAN on the air for 30 days

[Magnus Danielson]

It's interesting in that it's clearly not dead yet, rather the opposite.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 10/25/2016 04:33 PM, paul swed wrote:

Bob
The system works and they are using the system for various demonstrations
to government types. It is indeed Washingtons speed to resolution thats
taking the time.
So my crystal ball says nothing at all on what and when.
But that said the fact that its on for a month lets me check some
references.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:33 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:


Hi

Has there been any indication of just what they eventually will be doing?
Is this a never ending series of experiments or do they now have plans
to put something more perminanalt on the air?

Bob


On Oct 24, 2016, at 3:23 PM, paul swed  wrote:

The Wildwood, NJ eLoran transmitter will be continuously broadcasting

from

0900 (EST) on 21 October 2016 through 1200 (EST) on 22 November 2016.
Wildwood will be broadcasting as 8970 Master and Secondary most of the

time

but occasionally may operate at other rates.

Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
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Re: [time-nuts] eLORAN on the air for 30 days

[paul swed]

Bob
The system works and they are using the system for various demonstrations
to government types. It is indeed Washingtons speed to resolution thats
taking the time.
So my crystal ball says nothing at all on what and when.
But that said the fact that its on for a month lets me check some
references.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:33 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Has there been any indication of just what they eventually will be doing?
> Is this a never ending series of experiments or do they now have plans
> to put something more perminanalt on the air?
>
> Bob
>
> > On Oct 24, 2016, at 3:23 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> >
> > The Wildwood, NJ eLoran transmitter will be continuously broadcasting
> from
> > 0900 (EST) on 21 October 2016 through 1200 (EST) on 22 November 2016.
> > Wildwood will be broadcasting as 8970 Master and Secondary most of the
> time
> > but occasionally may operate at other rates.
> >
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] eLORAN on the air for 30 days

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Has there been any indication of just what they eventually will be doing?
Is this a never ending series of experiments or do they now have plans
to put something more perminanalt on the air?

Bob

> On Oct 24, 2016, at 3:23 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> 
> The Wildwood, NJ eLoran transmitter will be continuously broadcasting from
> 0900 (EST) on 21 October 2016 through 1200 (EST) on 22 November 2016.
> Wildwood will be broadcasting as 8970 Master and Secondary most of the time
> but occasionally may operate at other rates.
> 
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.

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[time-nuts] eLORAN on the air for 30 days

[paul swed]

The Wildwood, NJ eLoran transmitter will be continuously broadcasting from
0900 (EST) on 21 October 2016 through 1200 (EST) on 22 November 2016.
Wildwood will be broadcasting as 8970 Master and Secondary most of the time
but occasionally may operate at other rates.

Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
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