Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

2012-09-01 Thread David Kirkby
On 1 September 2012 00:00, Kevin Rosenberg ke...@rosenberg.net wrote:
 On Aug 31, 2012, at 4:05 PM, David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.net wrote:
 I don't have it yet, but bought it on eBay today from the seller
 agilentused which is Agilent, and sells used/ex-demo units which
 have been reconditioned, and have a fully warranty. Since I have not
 [...]

 I bought my MSO7104B oscilloscope from the same seller and was overall very 
 pleased. It did take a long time to get the scope with the software options 
 that I requested (6 weeks). But, they apologized and offered to include 
 another $3K of options of my choice to compensate for the delay. The 3-year 
 Agilent warranty was also important to me.

 Kevin

Hi Kevin,

A friend of mine done really well too when he bought from Agilent via
eBay. He had one of their first items they listed, but they did not
list the options - just the capabilities. As such, they agreed to
provide all the options so it met all the capabilites that were
listed.

Agilent don't make that mistake any more, and make it clear what
options are present. They listed two of the VNAs I bought - one with
just the 6 GHz extension and one with all the options. But the one
with all the options was listed at more than twice the price of the
one with just the 6 GHz extension.

I'd suffer a 6 week delay, if they chucked in the TDR option. The only
two options I did not get is the TDR (which is $3774 ) and the ability
to connect an external USB power meter ($511), for which I personally
have no use for.

Taking prices from the Agilent site, bought new, the VNA I have would
cost $22639, so to get it for $12000, I've saved $10639 and paid
just 53% of the new price. I put saved in quotes, as there is no way
I would have paid over $22k for this!

Dave
Dave

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Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

2012-09-01 Thread David Kirkby
On 1 September 2012 02:42, Said Jackson saidj...@aol.com wrote:
 You could get our GPSTCXO eval kit.

 It has a uBlox gps, supports NMEA GGA and RMC messages, has on-board USB, and 
 outputs a disciplined 10MHz with reasonably good phase noise. Two flies 
 captured in one.

 Probably costs only as much as shipping for your analyzer did :)

 No idea if it will be compatible to the analyzer though.

 Bye,
 Said

 Sent from my iPad

I'll ask on the Agilent VNA forum about exactly what is and what is
not going to work with this. If there are better devices than the
Microsoft one which work, then I'd get that.

There's a very knowledgable chap on the VNA forums (Dr_joel) who
works for Agilent and has just written a book about VNAs.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1119979552/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

There does not appear to much that guy does not know about HP/Agilent VNAs.

Dave

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Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

2012-09-01 Thread lists
I think 50% is the employee discount, at least back in the day.

I worked at a company that was one of the early users of Silvaco. The founder, 
Ivan Pesic, bought all the gear for his start up at employee discount, then 
started a company competing with HP TECAP.  He got the network analyzer, the 
last bit of gear he needed, then turned in his notice. 

Uh, lawyers were involved eventually. ;-) 

-Original Message-
From: David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.net
Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 08:09:07 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

On 1 September 2012 00:00, Kevin Rosenberg ke...@rosenberg.net wrote:
 On Aug 31, 2012, at 4:05 PM, David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.net wrote:
 I don't have it yet, but bought it on eBay today from the seller
 agilentused which is Agilent, and sells used/ex-demo units which
 have been reconditioned, and have a fully warranty. Since I have not
 [...]

 I bought my MSO7104B oscilloscope from the same seller and was overall very 
 pleased. It did take a long time to get the scope with the software options 
 that I requested (6 weeks). But, they apologized and offered to include 
 another $3K of options of my choice to compensate for the delay. The 3-year 
 Agilent warranty was also important to me.

 Kevin

Hi Kevin,

A friend of mine done really well too when he bought from Agilent via
eBay. He had one of their first items they listed, but they did not
list the options - just the capabilities. As such, they agreed to
provide all the options so it met all the capabilites that were
listed.

Agilent don't make that mistake any more, and make it clear what
options are present. They listed two of the VNAs I bought - one with
just the 6 GHz extension and one with all the options. But the one
with all the options was listed at more than twice the price of the
one with just the 6 GHz extension.

I'd suffer a 6 week delay, if they chucked in the TDR option. The only
two options I did not get is the TDR (which is $3774 ) and the ability
to connect an external USB power meter ($511), for which I personally
have no use for.

Taking prices from the Agilent site, bought new, the VNA I have would
cost $22639, so to get it for $12000, I've saved $10639 and paid
just 53% of the new price. I put saved in quotes, as there is no way
I would have paid over $22k for this!

Dave
Dave

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[time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

2012-08-31 Thread David Kirkby
I've bought an Agilent N9923A portable 2 MHz to 6 GHz vector network
analyzer which supports GPS. I assumed it had the GPS bought it, but
later found it it needs a GPS unit with a ublox  chip set.

Are there any ones to avoid, or which are good?

Dave

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Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

2012-08-31 Thread Azelio Boriani
Wow, an 8K dollars VNA... and you mind about a $60 GPS unit?

On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 9:13 PM, David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.netwrote:

 I've bought an Agilent N9923A portable 2 MHz to 6 GHz vector network
 analyzer which supports GPS. I assumed it had the GPS bought it, but
 later found it it needs a GPS unit with a ublox  chip set.

 Are there any ones to avoid, or which are good?

 Dave

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Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

2012-08-31 Thread SAIDJACK
Dave,
 
that depends on which uBlox the unit supports. There are basically three  
different sizes: AMY, LEA, and NEO. They also sell chip-sets, but only to 
very  large volume customers.
 
Any of the uBlox-6 will be excellent, the choice will depend on  
form-factor, and also if you need a timing-version that supports position-hold  
mode 
(denoted as a -T) or not. Even the uBlox-5 units are already extremely  good.
 
This assumes you can solder the uBlox module onto a PC board inside the  
analyzer yourself.
 
bye,
Said
 
 
In a message dated 8/31/2012 12:14:09 Pacific Daylight Time,  
david.kir...@onetel.net writes:

I've  bought an Agilent N9923A portable 2 MHz to 6 GHz vector network
analyzer  which supports GPS. I assumed it had the GPS bought it, but
later found it  it needs a GPS unit with a ublox  chip set.

Are there any ones to  avoid, or which are  good?

Dave


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Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

2012-08-31 Thread Bob Camp
Hi

Does it also need an add on board to mount the GPS on as well?

Bob

On Aug 31, 2012, at 3:13 PM, David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.net wrote:

 I've bought an Agilent N9923A portable 2 MHz to 6 GHz vector network
 analyzer which supports GPS. I assumed it had the GPS bought it, but
 later found it it needs a GPS unit with a ublox  chip set.
 
 Are there any ones to avoid, or which are good?
 
 Dave
 
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Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

2012-08-31 Thread David Kirkby
On 31 August 2012 20:34, Azelio Boriani azelio.bori...@screen.it wrote:
 Wow, an 8K dollars VNA... and you mind about a $60 GPS unit?

Well, as it is a portable device, I was hoping the GPS was built in
more for convenience than anything else. It's not the cost of the card
I am so worried about, but finding a decent one. I'd rather spend $150
on a decent one than $30 on a poor one.

BTW, I wish it was $8000. The options add considerably to the cost.
Having all the options, which are all enabled by software (no extra
hardware), will more than double the cost. It cost me $12000 with
*some* of the options.

Dave

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Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

2012-08-31 Thread David Kirkby
On 31 August 2012 20:35,  saidj...@aol.com wrote:
 Dave,

 that depends on which uBlox the unit supports. There are basically three
 different sizes: AMY, LEA, and NEO. They also sell chip-sets, but only to
 very  large volume customers.


It plugs in on USB. Somewhere I read it had to be ublox  compatible,
but having looked in the manual, it says:

-
GPS (Global Positioning System) allows you to ‘stamp’ each data trace
with your physical position in latitude/longitude/elevation format.
This can be useful when making measurements on cell towers or other
antennas at remote locations. NOTE This feature is usable ONLY with
the GPS receiver that is shipped with Microsoft “Streets and Trips”
and “AutoRoute”. The GPS receiver is NOT available from Agilent. Only
the GPS USB receiver is used with the FieldFox. Therefore, it is NOT
necessary to purchase the very latest version of the map software.
-

So it seems I need to purchase Microsoft Streets and Trips with the
optional GPS device, which is only $70 in total.

http://www.microsoft.com/streets/en-us/default.aspx

Does anyone know how good/bad that device is? I'd be using it in the
UK 99% of the time.

Dave

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Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

2012-08-31 Thread Bob Camp
Hi

Are you thinking of hooking up an external GPS to the unit? I've never seen one 
of these VNA's so I'm a little in the dark.

Bob

On Aug 31, 2012, at 4:52 PM, David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.net wrote:

 On 31 August 2012 20:34, Azelio Boriani azelio.bori...@screen.it wrote:
 Wow, an 8K dollars VNA... and you mind about a $60 GPS unit?
 
 Well, as it is a portable device, I was hoping the GPS was built in
 more for convenience than anything else. It's not the cost of the card
 I am so worried about, but finding a decent one. I'd rather spend $150
 on a decent one than $30 on a poor one.
 
 BTW, I wish it was $8000. The options add considerably to the cost.
 Having all the options, which are all enabled by software (no extra
 hardware), will more than double the cost. It cost me $12000 with
 *some* of the options.
 
 Dave
 
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Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

2012-08-31 Thread Bob Camp
Hi

It's not a great receiver, but it works. Back when it first came out, the price 
was pretty good for what you got. Time marches on and you now can get some very 
good / very cheap stand alone units.

Bob

On Aug 31, 2012, at 5:03 PM, David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.net wrote:

 On 31 August 2012 20:35,  saidj...@aol.com wrote:
 Dave,
 
 that depends on which uBlox the unit supports. There are basically three
 different sizes: AMY, LEA, and NEO. They also sell chip-sets, but only to
 very  large volume customers.
 
 
 It plugs in on USB. Somewhere I read it had to be ublox  compatible,
 but having looked in the manual, it says:
 
 -
 GPS (Global Positioning System) allows you to ‘stamp’ each data trace
 with your physical position in latitude/longitude/elevation format.
 This can be useful when making measurements on cell towers or other
 antennas at remote locations. NOTE This feature is usable ONLY with
 the GPS receiver that is shipped with Microsoft “Streets and Trips”
 and “AutoRoute”. The GPS receiver is NOT available from Agilent. Only
 the GPS USB receiver is used with the FieldFox. Therefore, it is NOT
 necessary to purchase the very latest version of the map software.
 -
 
 So it seems I need to purchase Microsoft Streets and Trips with the
 optional GPS device, which is only $70 in total.
 
 http://www.microsoft.com/streets/en-us/default.aspx
 
 Does anyone know how good/bad that device is? I'd be using it in the
 UK 99% of the time.
 
 Dave
 
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Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

2012-08-31 Thread lists
Some of those Microsoft hockey pucks used SIRF III chipset. I would check ebay 
for that kind of USB GPS. Streets and Trips, well specifically using a notebook 
for a display, has long been out of favor.

So I'm assuming here ST didn't use NEMA interface format.

-Original Message-
From: David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.net
Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 22:03:57 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

On 31 August 2012 20:35,  saidj...@aol.com wrote:
 Dave,

 that depends on which uBlox the unit supports. There are basically three
 different sizes: AMY, LEA, and NEO. They also sell chip-sets, but only to
 very  large volume customers.


It plugs in on USB. Somewhere I read it had to be ublox  compatible,
but having looked in the manual, it says:

-
GPS (Global Positioning System) allows you to ‘stamp’ each data trace
with your physical position in latitude/longitude/elevation format.
This can be useful when making measurements on cell towers or other
antennas at remote locations. NOTE This feature is usable ONLY with
the GPS receiver that is shipped with Microsoft “Streets and Trips”
and “AutoRoute”. The GPS receiver is NOT available from Agilent. Only
the GPS USB receiver is used with the FieldFox. Therefore, it is NOT
necessary to purchase the very latest version of the map software.
-

So it seems I need to purchase Microsoft Streets and Trips with the
optional GPS device, which is only $70 in total.

http://www.microsoft.com/streets/en-us/default.aspx

Does anyone know how good/bad that device is? I'd be using it in the
UK 99% of the time.

Dave

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Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

2012-08-31 Thread David Kirkby
On 31 August 2012 22:03, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote:
 Hi

 Are you thinking of hooking up an external GPS to the unit? I've never seen 
 one of these VNA's so I'm a little in the dark.

 Bob

The Agilent N9923A is a portable battery powered VNA to 4 or 6 GHz
(depening on what option you have. It's only a software change).

http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/product.jspx?cc=GBlc=engckey=1760161nid=-33903.922802.00id=1760161cmpid=zzfindn9923a

I don't expect it to have the performance of a laboratory instrument,
but it is a bit more usable for making measurements outside on an
antenna. It will complement my HP 8720D, which covers 50 MHz to 20
GHz, but it not portable.

I don't have it yet, but bought it on eBay today from the seller
agilentused which is Agilent, and sells used/ex-demo units which
have been reconditioned, and have a fully warranty. Since I have not
got it, I don't know much about it, but I have of course downloaded
the manual.

But from what I can work out, a USB stick plugs into the VNA and lets
on record latitude, longitdude and altitude. The manual makes it clear
the maps are not used, so there's no need to have the latest maps.

The GPS can also be used to set the internal clock.

One can adjust the frequency of the 10 MHz reference, but the VNA
needs to be connected to an external 10 MHz reference to do this -
there is no ability to use the GPS to set the frequency of the
oscillator.

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Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

2012-08-31 Thread Kevin Rosenberg
On Aug 31, 2012, at 4:05 PM, David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.net wrote:
 I don't have it yet, but bought it on eBay today from the seller
 agilentused which is Agilent, and sells used/ex-demo units which
 have been reconditioned, and have a fully warranty. Since I have not
 [...]

I bought my MSO7104B oscilloscope from the same seller and was overall very 
pleased. It did take a long time to get the scope with the software options 
that I requested (6 weeks). But, they apologized and offered to include another 
$3K of options of my choice to compensate for the delay. The 3-year Agilent 
warranty was also important to me.

Kevin


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Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

2012-08-31 Thread Azelio Boriani
In my opinion it uses the NMEA sentences. For the purpose of recording
position and time, the NMEA is enough and usually the GPSes receivers
output by default the NMEA sentences. Of course you can't discipline
anything by the USB port, so the external 10MHz is mandatory.

On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 12:05 AM, David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.netwrote:

 On 31 August 2012 22:03, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote:
  Hi
 
  Are you thinking of hooking up an external GPS to the unit? I've never
 seen one of these VNA's so I'm a little in the dark.
 
  Bob

 The Agilent N9923A is a portable battery powered VNA to 4 or 6 GHz
 (depening on what option you have. It's only a software change).


 http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/product.jspx?cc=GBlc=engckey=1760161nid=-33903.922802.00id=1760161cmpid=zzfindn9923a

 I don't expect it to have the performance of a laboratory instrument,
 but it is a bit more usable for making measurements outside on an
 antenna. It will complement my HP 8720D, which covers 50 MHz to 20
 GHz, but it not portable.

 I don't have it yet, but bought it on eBay today from the seller
 agilentused which is Agilent, and sells used/ex-demo units which
 have been reconditioned, and have a fully warranty. Since I have not
 got it, I don't know much about it, but I have of course downloaded
 the manual.

 But from what I can work out, a USB stick plugs into the VNA and lets
 on record latitude, longitdude and altitude. The manual makes it clear
 the maps are not used, so there's no need to have the latest maps.

 The GPS can also be used to set the internal clock.

 One can adjust the frequency of the 10 MHz reference, but the VNA
 needs to be connected to an external 10 MHz reference to do this -
 there is no ability to use the GPS to set the frequency of the
 oscillator.

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Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

2012-08-31 Thread Don Latham
I have a gps called ambicom with a usb that works with Msoft streets
directly.
Don

Bob Camp
 Hi

 It's not a great receiver, but it works. Back when it first came out,
 the price was pretty good for what you got. Time marches on and you now
 can get some very good / very cheap stand alone units.

 Bob

 On Aug 31, 2012, at 5:03 PM, David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.net
 wrote:

 On 31 August 2012 20:35,  saidj...@aol.com wrote:
 Dave,

 that depends on which uBlox the unit supports. There are basically
 three
 different sizes: AMY, LEA, and NEO. They also sell chip-sets, but
 only to
 very  large volume customers.


 It plugs in on USB. Somewhere I read it had to be ublox  compatible,
 but having looked in the manual, it says:

 -
 GPS (Global Positioning System) allows you to ‘stamp’ each data trace
 with your physical position in latitude/longitude/elevation format.
 This can be useful when making measurements on cell towers or other
 antennas at remote locations. NOTE This feature is usable ONLY with
 the GPS receiver that is shipped with Microsoft “Streets and Trips”
 and “AutoRoute”. The GPS receiver is NOT available from Agilent. Only
 the GPS USB receiver is used with the FieldFox. Therefore, it is NOT
 necessary to purchase the very latest version of the map software.
 -

 So it seems I need to purchase Microsoft Streets and Trips with the
 optional GPS device, which is only $70 in total.

 http://www.microsoft.com/streets/en-us/default.aspx

 Does anyone know how good/bad that device is? I'd be using it in the
 UK 99% of the time.

 Dave

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-- 
Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind.
De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century.
If you don't know what it is, don't poke it.
Ghost in the Shell


Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com



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Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

2012-08-31 Thread lists
These mapping programs tend to fall back to NEMA, but also have proprietary 
formats. (Certainly true of Garmin and Delorme.) Now I wonder if by specifying 
a ST USB GPS they want whatever proprietary format MS used. That is, it would 
have made more sense that if they wanted NEMA, they would specify NEMA.

Those MS hockey pucks were notorious for being mistaken by the OS as a mouse 
out of the blue.  You eould have to boot the notebook. All in all, a technology 
that didn't work well.
 
-Original Message-
From: Don Latham d...@montana.com
Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 17:05:58 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

I have a gps called ambicom with a usb that works with Msoft streets
directly.
Don

Bob Camp
 Hi

 It's not a great receiver, but it works. Back when it first came out,
 the price was pretty good for what you got. Time marches on and you now
 can get some very good / very cheap stand alone units.

 Bob

 On Aug 31, 2012, at 5:03 PM, David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.net
 wrote:

 On 31 August 2012 20:35,  saidj...@aol.com wrote:
 Dave,

 that depends on which uBlox the unit supports. There are basically
 three
 different sizes: AMY, LEA, and NEO. They also sell chip-sets, but
 only to
 very  large volume customers.


 It plugs in on USB. Somewhere I read it had to be ublox  compatible,
 but having looked in the manual, it says:

 -
 GPS (Global Positioning System) allows you to ‘stamp’ each data trace
 with your physical position in latitude/longitude/elevation format.
 This can be useful when making measurements on cell towers or other
 antennas at remote locations. NOTE This feature is usable ONLY with
 the GPS receiver that is shipped with Microsoft “Streets and Trips”
 and “AutoRoute”. The GPS receiver is NOT available from Agilent. Only
 the GPS USB receiver is used with the FieldFox. Therefore, it is NOT
 necessary to purchase the very latest version of the map software.
 -

 So it seems I need to purchase Microsoft Streets and Trips with the
 optional GPS device, which is only $70 in total.

 http://www.microsoft.com/streets/en-us/default.aspx

 Does anyone know how good/bad that device is? I'd be using it in the
 UK 99% of the time.

 Dave

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-- 
Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind.
De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century.
If you don't know what it is, don't poke it.
Ghost in the Shell


Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com



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Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

2012-08-31 Thread Said Jackson
You could get our GPSTCXO eval kit.

It has a uBlox gps, supports NMEA GGA and RMC messages, has on-board USB, and 
outputs a disciplined 10MHz with reasonably good phase noise. Two flies 
captured in one.

Probably costs only as much as shipping for your analyzer did :)

No idea if it will be compatible to the analyzer though.

Bye,
Said

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 31, 2012, at 14:03, David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.net wrote:

 On 31 August 2012 20:35,  saidj...@aol.com wrote:
 Dave,
 
 that depends on which uBlox the unit supports. There are basically three
 different sizes: AMY, LEA, and NEO. They also sell chip-sets, but only to
 very  large volume customers.
 
 
 It plugs in on USB. Somewhere I read it had to be ublox  compatible,
 but having looked in the manual, it says:
 
 -
 GPS (Global Positioning System) allows you to ‘stamp’ each data trace
 with your physical position in latitude/longitude/elevation format.
 This can be useful when making measurements on cell towers or other
 antennas at remote locations. NOTE This feature is usable ONLY with
 the GPS receiver that is shipped with Microsoft “Streets and Trips”
 and “AutoRoute”. The GPS receiver is NOT available from Agilent. Only
 the GPS USB receiver is used with the FieldFox. Therefore, it is NOT
 necessary to purchase the very latest version of the map software.
 -
 
 So it seems I need to purchase Microsoft Streets and Trips with the
 optional GPS device, which is only $70 in total.
 
 http://www.microsoft.com/streets/en-us/default.aspx
 
 Does anyone know how good/bad that device is? I'd be using it in the
 UK 99% of the time.
 
 Dave
 
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