Re: [time-nuts] SMPS or conventional?

2020-12-21 Thread Lux, Jim
On 12/21/20 5:59 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: Both agree that ripple > 1 KHz is harmless. But then the current delivered to the TEC is quite large usually -  and It's a different question if you want such large and dirty currents on your table or in your device. Yes.. we were testing a

Re: [time-nuts] SMPS or conventional?

2020-12-21 Thread Dana Whitlow
A properly-tuned PID system does not cycle! Dana On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 6:49 PM Bob kb8tq wrote: > Hi > > Finding a data sheet on a TEC that goes past *very* basic stuff is > essentially > impossible. The bottom line is that the people who make them very much > want to sell them to you.

Re: [time-nuts] DHS Resilient PNT Conformance Framework

2020-12-21 Thread Magnus Danielson
Hi Bob, Sure, but I think some of these requirements will be met for fairly cheap devices soon enough. Another aspect we also discussed is that while a module on its own may not do all the things needed to meet a level, if it has sufficient of capabilities to support additional checks and then

Re: [time-nuts] SMPS or conventional?

2020-12-21 Thread Gerhard Hoffmann
Am 22.12.20 um 00:43 schrieb Hal Murray: [Old mail, context is TECs] bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz said: If the drive current ripple is too high fatigue failure from cyclic thermomechanical stress can be significant. Do good data sheets say anything about that? Is there a frequency term in

Re: [time-nuts] DHS Resilient PNT Conformance Framework

2020-12-21 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi Well, we’re not talking about $9 parts here. Typical prices in the $500 to $2,000 in quantity would be a better description. That said, the OEM’s normally saw the field upgrade process as a bigger risk than not getting involved in it ….. Bob > On Dec 21, 2020, at 7:51 PM, Magnus Danielson

Re: [time-nuts] DHS Resilient PNT Conformance Framework

2020-12-21 Thread Magnus Danielson
Hi Bob, Yes, there is even receivers with no know way of upgrade in the field. But this framework was not meant to make all receivers meet the requirements, rather the opposite, the unofficial class of level 0 is most of those receivers. If level 1 or higher is needed for critical infrastructure

Re: [time-nuts] SMPS or conventional?

2020-12-21 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Original source about TEC lifetime reduction when the TEC ripple cureent is high: https://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1991-02.pdf Page 74 I suspect that someone there may have been bitten by the short TEC life experienced without the LC filter. Although they used relatively small

Re: [time-nuts] SMPS or conventional?

2020-12-21 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi Finding a data sheet on a TEC that goes past *very* basic stuff is essentially impossible. The bottom line is that the people who make them very much want to sell them to you. Finding information in those data sheets that suggest problems … not so much. The problem is (mainly) physical.

Re: [time-nuts] SMPS or conventional?

2020-12-21 Thread Hal Murray
[Old mail, context is TECs] bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz said: > If the drive current ripple is too high fatigue failure from cyclic > thermomechanical stress can be significant. Do good data sheets say anything about that? Is there a frequency term in there? Can I use PWM, which is as much

Re: [time-nuts] DHS Resilient PNT Conformance Framework

2020-12-21 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi I would guess that out of say 100 OEM’s using a GPSDO, at least 99 of them had *major* concerns about field upgrades. Their take was that supporting them had always turned into a disaster. No matter how clear the instructions, a significant number of systems went down / stayed down while

[time-nuts] FEI FE-5440A TO 49B3-36-2 missing page fill in......

2020-12-21 Thread Ken Eckert
Hello; I have a TD-1251/U USAF version of the FE-5440A Master clock. I have a photocopy of the manual however there are four errors: - Page 8-7 Fig 8-2 Sheet 2 of 2 - Page 8-31 Fig 8-10 3 of 3 - Page 8-69 Fig 8-22 - Page 8-75 Fig 8-24 Sheet 2 of 3 At a bare minimum I'd like even photos of page

Re: [time-nuts] DHS Resilient PNT Conformance Framework

2020-12-21 Thread Magnus Danielson
Hi, On 2020-12-21 09:02, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > Bob kb8tq writes: > >> I have seen cases of “goes away until power cycled”. I have not seen any >> cases of >> “goes away forever” other than the obvious ( = feed it an insane almanac >> that prevents >> if from ever locking up ).

Re: [time-nuts] DHS Resilient PNT Conformance Framework

2020-12-21 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
Bob kb8tq writes: > I have seen cases of “goes away until power cycled”. I have not seen any > cases of > “goes away forever” other than the obvious ( = feed it an insane almanac > that prevents > if from ever locking up ). Even with that said, I have not seen an example ot > that