[time-nuts] Re: A Nice Slice of History

2021-12-26 Thread M. Simon via time-nuts
This link worked for me: http://www.tubebooks.org/Books/hpc.pdf Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit. I like Polywell Fusion. On Monday, December 27, 2021, 03:28:54 AM UTC, Jeff Zambory wrote: It worked for me. It just took a while to

[time-nuts] Re: A Nice Slice of History

2021-12-26 Thread Bob Albert via time-nuts
In my case it immediately went to a error 404 message. But I found it.  Here I will once again give a shot at uploading it. Handbook of Piezoelectric Crystals for Radio Equipment Designers | | | | | | | | | | | Handbook of Piezoelectric Crystals for Radio Equipment Designers | |

[time-nuts] Re: A Nice Slice of History

2021-12-26 Thread Thomas Miller via time-nuts
'https://worldradiohistory.com/BOOKSHELF-ARH/Tube-Technology/Handbook-of-Piezoelectric-Crystals-John-P-Buchanan-1956-(701-pages).pdf' The cut and paste broke the link. Try this one. -Original Message- From: Bob Albert via time-nuts To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com ; gandal...@aol.com C

[time-nuts] Re: A Nice Slice of History

2021-12-26 Thread Jeff Zambory
It worked for me. It just took a while to load a 701 page PDF. Sent from my iPad > On Dec 26, 2021, at 7:06 PM, Bob Albert via time-nuts > wrote: > >  Link doesn't work. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe se

[time-nuts] Re: A Nice Slice of History

2021-12-26 Thread Dan Rae via time-nuts
On 12/26/2021 6:05 PM, Bob Albert via time-nuts wrote: Link doesn't work. https://worldradiohistory.com/BOOKSHELF-ARH/Tube-Technology/Handbook-of-Piezoelectric-Crystals-John-P-Buchanan-1956-(701-pages).pdf worked for me, all 700 odd pages of it. Thanks Nigel, and Happy Hogmanay, Dan ___

[time-nuts] Re: A Nice Slice of History

2021-12-26 Thread Bob Albert via time-nuts
I found this: Handbook of Piezoelectric Crystals for Radio Equipment Designers | | | | | | | | | | | Handbook of Piezoelectric Crystals for Radio Equipment Designers | | | On Sunday, December 26, 2021, 06:05:52 PM PST, Bob Albert via time-nuts wrote: Link doesn

[time-nuts] Re: A Nice Slice of History

2021-12-26 Thread Bob Albert via time-nuts
Link doesn't work. On Sunday, December 26, 2021, 05:41:01 PM PST, Nigel gm8pzr via time-nuts wrote: For those interested in the historical aspects, mid 50s in this instance, of crystals and crystal oscillators in radio equipment... https://worldradiohistory.com/BOOKSHELF-ARH/Tube-Techn

[time-nuts] Re: OCXO Oven design (was: E1938A phase noise improvement)

2021-12-26 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi Selling well only works if you are making money on each one :) The 8607 is / was a “select the best” design. If one in a hundred meets that spec and you can’t sell the rest … h ….. Move the 8607 price up to $200,000 and they probably don’t sell very well. Bob > On Dec 26, 2021, at 5

[time-nuts] A Nice Slice of History

2021-12-26 Thread Nigel gm8pzr via time-nuts
For those interested in the historical aspects, mid 50s in this instance, of crystals and crystal oscillators in radio equipment... https://worldradiohistory.com/BOOKSHELF-ARH/Tube-Technology/Handbook-of-Piezoelectric-Crystals-John-P-Buchanan-1956-(701-pages).pdf Even a few of them there 3 legged

[time-nuts] Re: E1938A phase noise improvement

2021-12-26 Thread Richard (Rick) Karlquist
On 12/26/2021 10:42 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote: The correct link is: https://febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts_lists.febo.com/2012-September/053009.html /tvb I think what I said here is self explanatory. The loop amplifier or its resistors have noise that corrupts the AFC loop. Or else the lo

[time-nuts] Re: OCXO Oven design (was: E1938A phase noise improvement)

2021-12-26 Thread Attila Kinali
On Sun, 26 Dec 2021 15:54:06 -0500 Bob kb8tq wrote: > The market is what dictates how fancy an OCXO gets made. Bottom > line is that there really isn’t that big a market (and willingness to pay > for super duper TC). If indeed you could do all the fancy stuff and > still keep the sell price bel

[time-nuts] Re: OCXO Oven design (was: E1938A phase noise improvement)

2021-12-26 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi The market is what dictates how fancy an OCXO gets made. Bottom line is that there really isn’t that big a market (and willingness to pay for super duper TC). If indeed you could do all the fancy stuff and still keep the sell price below $10 then who knows …. Bob > On Dec 26, 2021, at 1:39

[time-nuts] Re: Why do have OCXO a Vref output?

2021-12-26 Thread Tom Van Baak
Attila, > Why do have OCXO a Vref output in the first place? The purpose of Vref is to optionally allow the oscillator to be fine-tuned using 3 wires to an external user-supplied multi-turn pot, often hiding behind an access hole at the rear of the instrument. Note that the internal Vref nee

[time-nuts] Re: Where do people get the time?

2021-12-26 Thread Gregory Beat via time-nuts
ESE has personal computer (PC) software (Windows) for configuring various ESE products, using serial communications (RS-232 or USB). The ES-192U has a serial connector (DB-9R) on its Rear Panel. i have used USB-RS232 Bridge cables with Win10 computers w/o RS-232 ports. https://www.ese-web.com/sof

[time-nuts] Re: E1938A phase noise improvement

2021-12-26 Thread Tom Van Baak
The correct link is: https://febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts_lists.febo.com/2012-September/053009.html /tvb On 12/26/2021 10:07 AM, Stewart Cobb wrote: Rick, I think this was the comment I was referring to: https://lists.febo.com/empathy/thread/ Which says: "... the phase noise is not as goo

[time-nuts] Re: Why do have OCXO a Vref output? (was: help reviving Trimble UCCM-LPS GPSDO)

2021-12-26 Thread va2hdd
Hello to all members. And also remember that properly applied, a Zener diode can be a very good reference. This might be more in the Volt--Nuts class, but the Solartron 7081 8.5 digit DVM uses a TC Zener as a voltage reference. Of course it is a selected Zener with a carefully controlled bia

[time-nuts] Re: Why do have OCXO a Vref output? (was: help reviving Trimble UCCM-LPS GPSDO)

2021-12-26 Thread ed breya
I forgot to mention that the TCZD regulators are affected by the power supply too, depending on the rest of the circuit. I think they typically had a two-stage deal, with a regular Zener to make a higher voltage, and provide a fairly stable supply to operate the reference regulator, but of cour

[time-nuts] Re: E1938A phase noise improvement

2021-12-26 Thread Stewart Cobb
Rick, I think this was the comment I was referring to: https://lists.febo.com/empathy/thread/SAGAOXBTK47QABBXZIUWFZ65TS76QZTA?hash=F5ONUQ552CLJ4G67XSYGV7JYBIOHMSPA#F5ONUQ552CLJ4G67XSYGV7JYBIOHMSPA Which says: "... the phase noise is not as good as a 10811 due to broadband noise in the automatic

[time-nuts] Re: E1938A phase noise improvement

2021-12-26 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi The TC of the E1938 as reported in Rick’s papers is way past what a “normal” single oven will do (like by several orders of magnitude). Bob > On Dec 26, 2021, at 12:51 PM, Attila Kinali wrote: > > On Sun, 26 Dec 2021 12:40:52 -0500 > Bob kb8tq wrote: > >> There are not many single oven de

[time-nuts] Re: E1938A phase noise improvement

2021-12-26 Thread Attila Kinali
On Sun, 26 Dec 2021 12:40:52 -0500 Bob kb8tq wrote: > There are not many single oven designs out there that achieve > the stability of the E1938. Of the designs I’m aware of, all use > a “correction signal” to get there. Double ovens are a totally > different beast ….. Hmmm.. So you are saying

[time-nuts] Re: Why do have OCXO a Vref output? (was: help reviving Trimble UCCM-LPS GPSDO)

2021-12-26 Thread ed breya
Andy wrote: "... I too was surprised to see nothing more than a Zener being used in one case, but bearing in mind this was in a temperature controlled environment is not as bad as a Zener in open air." In the OCXOs I've had opened up, they used a temperature compensated Zener, typically in th

[time-nuts] Re: E1938A phase noise improvement

2021-12-26 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi There are not many single oven designs out there that achieve the stability of the E1938. Of the designs I’m aware of, all use a “correction signal” to get there. Double ovens are a totally different beast ….. Bob > On Dec 26, 2021, at 12:14 PM, Attila Kinali wrote: > > Hoi Rick! > > On S

[time-nuts] Re: E1938A phase noise improvement

2021-12-26 Thread Attila Kinali
Hoi Rick! On Sun, 26 Dec 2021 08:36:06 -0800 "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" wrote: > The E1938A has both an ALC loop (common in many oscillators) plus an AFC > loop, which is exclusive to the patented bridge stabilized circuit. I > am thinking that maybe the AFC circuit was causing the hump. That

[time-nuts] Re: Where do people get the time?

2021-12-26 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi Working at Motorola at the time and seeing just how much trouble they had turning into a “software based” company, there were indeed issues on the supplier end. The got there eventually, but it took quite a while. Bob > On Dec 26, 2021, at 2:47 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > A

[time-nuts] Re: E1938A phase noise improvement

2021-12-26 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi I think the comment was in reference to the 10811 rather than the E1938A. I suspect it was targeted at the output buffer. Bob > On Dec 25, 2021, at 11:56 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist > wrote: > > I'm sure I said that ... a long time ago. I can't remember now what the fix > was, but I a

[time-nuts] Re: E1938A phase noise improvement

2021-12-26 Thread Richard (Rick) Karlquist
The E1938A has both an ALC loop (common in many oscillators) plus an AFC loop, which is exclusive to the patented bridge stabilized circuit. I am thinking that maybe the AFC circuit was causing the hump. That theory could be verified by disabling the AFC and seeing if the hump goes away. The A