[time-nuts] Re: Phase coherence with 2X GPSDO

2022-03-07 Thread ed breya
Just an interesting observation. Last night, shortly after I wrote about my dual GPSDO system, I decided to take a look at it, with the usual scope setup looking at both 10 MHz outputs. It looked like one of those reasonably good times, where the phase between them seemed very stable during

[time-nuts] Re: Measuring oscillators against GPS - Trimble NetRS

2022-03-07 Thread paul swed
Tom Been following the thread with interest. I think several years ago it was mentioned that LadyHeather could produce results by using a external 10 MHz into a GPS reciver for its main oscillator. Always seemed like a great just over the horizon project. With respect to the uBlox F9. Lost me on

[time-nuts] Re: Measuring oscillators against GPS - mosaic T

2022-03-07 Thread Tom Wallace
JA, you mention using a Septentrio mosaic-T. I've not been able to locate dev boards for the moasic-T (just the -X5 anf the -H). Didi you build a board, or is there a -T dev board out there somewhere? ___ time-nuts mailing list --

[time-nuts] Re: Measuring oscillators against GPS - Trimble NetRS

2022-03-07 Thread Tom Wallace
I've been using the NetRS for timing for a couple of years now. They are inexpensive and work well when properly configured, but they do have their quirks. Some notes I've found useful: 1. The NetRS needs a dongle to provide primary power and the Ethernet interface. Approximately 100% of the

[time-nuts] Re: Measuring oscillators against GPS

2022-03-07 Thread John Ackermann N8UR
I've been working on frequency/stability measurements using the Trimble NetRS and newer Mosaic-T dual-frequency receivers. Very early data indicates that the NetRS does just about as well as the Mosaic, assuming you are only interested in GPS and not GLONASS or the other constellations the

[time-nuts] Re: Measuring oscillators against GPS

2022-03-07 Thread Stewart Cobb
Skip Withrow's writeup is very interesting. As Skip mentioned, the Trimble NetRS is a survey-grade dual frequency GPS receiver which accepts a 10 MHz clock input. It appears that the US Coast Guard has recently replaced a large number of these NetRS units, and sent the old ones to surplus. They

[time-nuts] Re: Phase coherence with 2x GPSDO

2022-03-07 Thread Tom Van Baak
> I've had the same question but I can't see how it could possibly "know" > its own frequency error/uncertainty. What would it reference to? That's why it's a rough internal *estimate*, not an actual measurement against an external reference. Again, it goes back to how a GPSDO works. There is

[time-nuts] Re: Phase coherence with 2x GPSDO

2022-03-07 Thread Mattia Rizzi
Hi, You can definitely get sub-ns precision using a 4-8 MHz bandwidth wireless protocol. You are not limited by the sampling period. In my previous work I used 802.15.4-CSS (chirp based modulation), implemented by me in a SDR. The sampling rate was 32 ns but with crosscorrelation and sample

[time-nuts] Re: Phase coherence with 2x GPSDO

2022-03-07 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi As soon as you put one device in motion relative to the other and space them apart, the expected level of alignment between the PPS outputs will drop. You are adding a number of variables into the mix. As noted in other posts, something like a F9T or a Mosiac T is a much better way to do

[time-nuts] Re: Phase coherence with 2x GPSDO

2022-03-07 Thread Krishna Makhija
Thanks Mattia. What did you use for your Layer 1? I need to place one of the SDRs on a drone and one on the ground so a fiber or LAN cable is out. I could use WLAN but can you get sub-nanosecond performance over wi-fi? My initial guess would be no but I am not certain. Michael: I've had the same

[time-nuts] WWVB remodulator build.

2022-03-07 Thread paul swed
Looks like another wwvb remodulator has been built and a very nice writeup by Doug. He also writes up issues of LED light interference and approaches to solving that. Nice. Link here https://wa3dsp.org/spectracom_8170 The remodulator is a very simple way to make those old wwvb clocks work. It is

[time-nuts] effect of position accuracy on PPS

2022-03-07 Thread Mete Balci
Hello, When the GPS receiver (particularly talking about the ublox T series) is in fixed time mode, I wonder about the sensitivity of PPS to the accuracy of position given to the receiver. I have a pretty bad location for my GPS antenna, so it cannot find a very accurate position (~10m at best,

[time-nuts] Re: Phase coherence with 2x GPSDO

2022-03-07 Thread Mattia Rizzi
Hello Krishna, what is your end application? How far away are those boards? If each SDR can communicate to each other, you can run PTP over an ad-hoc Layer 1. I was able to get timestamps out of a 2.4 GHz chirp-based protocol with less than 0.5ns RMS noise and two-way ranging error down to 10-20

[time-nuts] Re: Phase coherence with 2x GPSDO

2022-03-07 Thread Tom Van Baak
Hi Krishna, > Hello Tom, > Yes, the GPSDOs are working well. However, when I use each as a reference > to a separate radio, I find there is a slow phase change over time between > said radios. I imagine this is expected since there will always be some > error between two discrete oscillators.