Re: [time-nuts] Building a DMTD/phase noise set in the 21st century

2019-10-15 Thread Attila Kinali
On Sun, 25 Aug 2019 13:59:15 +0200 Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: > Am 25.08.19 um 10:52 schrieb Hal Murray: > > att...@kinali.ch said: > >> As you have always two channels, I would recommend to use two mixers fed > >> with > >> an LO that is 90°C out of phase to get I and Q components. > > How does

Re: [time-nuts] Building a DMTD/phase noise set in the 21st century

2019-08-30 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message <5d68c7ef.6080...@telight.com>, ed breya writes: >I think there may be some confusion over the "super-capacitor" term. I did some characterization of various kinds of large capacitors some years back, and my conclusion was that environmental effects scale super-linearly with

Re: [time-nuts] Building a DMTD/phase noise set in the 21st century

2019-08-30 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Actually the leakage of at least some standard electrolytic capacitors can be quite low if one waits long enough. I've seen a leakage as small as a few nanoamps after several minutes at room temperature with randomly selected 100uF capacitors. Bruce > On 30 August 2019 at 18:53 ed breya

Re: [time-nuts] Building a DMTD/phase noise set in the 21st century

2019-08-30 Thread ed breya
I think there may be some confusion over the "super-capacitor" term. Over the years, I've seen two types. The most commonly encountered are the ones in consumer gear, for storing charge to keep CMOS RAM alive during power outage and such, for a reasonable amount of time. These may be from 47

Re: [time-nuts] Building a DMTD/phase noise set in the 21st century

2019-08-29 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Mine exhibit a series resistance of a few tens of milliohms and the added thermal noise was insignificant. The manufacturer claimed to use nanostructured carbon electrodes. The leakage current was also small Bruce > On 30 August 2019 at 11:19 Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: > > > > Am 26.08.19 um

Re: [time-nuts] Building a DMTD/phase noise set in the 21st century

2019-08-29 Thread Gerhard Hoffmann
Am 26.08.19 um 04:47 schrieb Bruce Griffiths: I've only used an ultra low esr 33F supercap made in Korea in the source circuit of the input JFET on a preamp. Down to 10Hz at least it didn't appear to add significant noise to the 4nV/rtHz @10Hz preamp. I had bought some at DK, but 30 Ohms

Re: [time-nuts] Building a DMTD/phase noise set in the 21st century

2019-08-27 Thread ed breya
You can also try capacitance multiplication with an active (power gain) device - of course, it needs to have commensurately low noise too. I had a few schemes sketched out years ago, for extra filtering a low noise voltage reference I intend (some day) to build, using some of the 2SK160 (as I

Re: [time-nuts] Building a DMTD/phase noise set in the 21st century

2019-08-27 Thread Didier Juges
Thank you Bruce, I have a couple of bags of small supercaps (1 to 3F range). The ESR is not negligible (50 to 60 Ohms) but for applications where you need a very low cutoff in an A/C coupled circuit, they will do a good job, or to replace battery backup in some applications. For bypass, they will

Re: [time-nuts] Building a DMTD/phase noise set in the 21st century

2019-08-25 Thread Bruce Griffiths
I've only used an ultra low esr 33F supercap made in Korea in the source circuit of the input JFET on a preamp. Down to 10Hz at least it didn't appear to add significant noise to the 4nV/rtHz @10Hz preamp. Bruce > On 26 August 2019 at 13:52 Didier Juges wrote: > > > How do SuperCaps compare

Re: [time-nuts] Building a DMTD/phase noise set in the 21st century

2019-08-25 Thread Didier Juges
How do SuperCaps compare with electrolytics noise-wise? Didier KO4BB On Sun, Aug 25, 2019, 9:04 AM Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: > > Yes, these electrolytic capacitors can produce ugly effects. > > The winner is clearly the cheap > > < https://www.digikey.de/products/de?keywords=1189-1056-ND >

Re: [time-nuts] Building a DMTD/phase noise set in the 21st century

2019-08-25 Thread Gerhard Hoffmann
Am 25.08.19 um 10:52 schrieb Hal Murray: att...@kinali.ch said: As you have always two channels, I would recommend to use two mixers fed with an LO that is 90°C out of phase to get I and Q components. How does that compare with running a single channel twice as fast? At low enough

Re: [time-nuts] Building a DMTD/phase noise set in the 21st century

2019-08-25 Thread Gerhard Hoffmann
Am 24.08.19 um 23:49 schrieb Jan-Derk Bakker: there may be some flicker noise present, I've not personally seen the poor DC performance in many S/D audio converters either (apart as artefacts from the front-end electrolytic coupling capacitors). Yes, these electrolytic capacitors can produce

Re: [time-nuts] Building a DMTD/phase noise set in the 21st century (was: Keysight N5511A - phase noise measurements down to theoretical-177 dBm/Hz)

2019-08-25 Thread Hal Murray
att...@kinali.ch said: > As you have always two channels, I would recommend to use two mixers fed with > an LO that is 90°C out of phase to get I and Q components. How does that compare with running a single channel twice as fast? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam.

Re: [time-nuts] Building a DMTD/phase noise set in the 21st century

2019-08-25 Thread Andy Gardner via time-nuts
Attila, How would you rate the HP E1437A VXI ADC for this application? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Building a DMTD/phase noise set in the 21st century (was: Keysight N5511A - phase noise measurements down to theoretical-177 dBm/Hz)

2019-08-24 Thread Jan-Derk Bakker
On Sat, Aug 24, 2019 at 10:31 PM Attila Kinali wrote: > Another important thing to know with audio ADCs is, that they are > almost always some sigma-delta variant. This gives them a high linearity > and low noise with moderate cost. But that also means that the higher > the bandwidth you are

[time-nuts] Building a DMTD/phase noise set in the 21st century (was: Keysight N5511A - phase noise measurements down to theoretical-177 dBm/Hz)

2019-08-24 Thread Attila Kinali
On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 07:35:06 -0700 "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" wrote: > It is easy to homebrew a phase detector using a high LO drive mixer > (eg JMS-5H+ $12.95) followed by an LT1028/LT1128. > Then all you need is a low frequency spectrum analyzer. > If you don't need to go below 20 Hz offset,