Re: [time-nuts] Trueposition Antenna Location

2018-12-03 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi Well, what you are coming up with as a result simply is not correct. Properly calculated ADEV does not do what you show it doing. TimeLab has been around long enough to be considered “correct” in this regard. The normal input to an ADEV calculation is phase rather than frequency. Bob >

Re: [time-nuts] Trueposition Antenna Location

2018-12-03 Thread Mark Goldberg
I am starting with what should be a frequency measurement at the sample rate. Timelab can import that and should be able to determine ADEV from that. I agree that something is not right though. I unfortunately am trying to measure with what I already have. I don't have a TIC. Regards, Mark On

Re: [time-nuts] Trueposition Antenna Location

2018-12-03 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi Let’s back up a bit: The input to an ADEV calculation is a record of phase (time between wide spaced edges). Often this is from a PPS output on a device. It could equally well be from 10 MHz edges spaced a count of 10,000,000 edges apart. The first part of the formula takes the difference

Re: [time-nuts] Trueposition Antenna Location

2018-12-03 Thread Mark Goldberg
I have looked at it multiple times and so far cannot see a discrepancy. The ration of the ADEVs for the two sample rates is very close to 2 for a wide range of Tau in the 10-200 sec range. That can't be a coincidence. It's between 2 and 3 for higher Tau but that may be due to temperature changes.

Re: [time-nuts] Trueposition Antenna Location

2018-12-03 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi ADEV is pretty well documented and the results should *not* be dependent on the sample rate. The proper approach to dropping the sample rate is decimation of the data. I think you may want to look at the way you are doing ADEV. Bob > On Dec 3, 2018, at 12:30 AM, Mark Goldberg wrote: > > I

Re: [time-nuts] Trueposition Antenna Location

2018-12-02 Thread Mark Goldberg
I ran them again today and the results are almost identical. The slower sample rate still shows a lower ADEV. I am not sure what the algorithm to determine the peak frequency is but it is described as a linear interpolation between the two highest peaks on the FFT. I could see how that could be

Re: [time-nuts] Trueposition Antenna Location

2018-12-02 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi Looking at the data, I’m guessing the slower sample rate was done last. If so, you may not be letting the GPSDO’s “warm up” long enough. Most designs take days (if not weeks) to get to their ultimate stability. Bob > On Dec 2, 2018, at 11:16 AM, Mark Goldberg wrote: > > I broke down and

[time-nuts] Trueposition Antenna Location

2018-11-30 Thread Mark Sims
Not all the "holdovers" on the Trueposition are due to signal issues. Many seem to be related to it tuning itself up after a power cycle and they improve or go away after a couple of days of running. But your antenna signal level map is rather awful... lots of red. It could be antenna,

Re: [time-nuts] Trueposition Antenna Location

2018-11-30 Thread Mark Goldberg
On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 8:56 AM Attila Kinali wrote: > On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 21:22:44 -0700 > Mark Goldberg wrote: > > > How much could I expect ADEV to improve if I move the antenna to a better > > location with clear view of the sky? The things I am testing need to be > > better than 8e-10, so

Re: [time-nuts] Trueposition Antenna Location

2018-11-30 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi There are lots more issues to GPSDO stability than just antenna placement. Indeed you are correct that a location that keeps you out of holdover is a must. Ideally you want to be able to lock on to 4 sats at all times. That generally equates to being able to “see” something in the > 6 range