Re: [time-nuts] PLL/GPSDO/etc learning resources for mere mortals

2018-09-02 Thread John Miles
> -Original Message- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] On Behalf Of > Richard (Rick) Karlquist > Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2018 6:12 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement; Forrest Christian > (List Account) > Subject: Re: [time-nuts]

[time-nuts] PLL/GPSDO/etc learning resources for mere mortals

2018-09-02 Thread Forrest Christian (List Account)
I'm trying to fill in some gaps in my knowledge about PLL's, GPSDO's, etc., with the goal to eventually implement some of these either in a microcontroller or fpga or some combination thereof. My problem is that the resources I've found either are very basic - oriented toward just the high level

Re: [time-nuts] Frequency over fiber (was WWV and legal issues)

2018-09-02 Thread Peter Vince
Hi Magnus, Could you please give us some idea of the magnitude of these effects? Even if just whether we are talking about nano, pico, or femtoseconds? Thank you, Peter On 2 September 2018 at 12:17, Magnus Danielson wrote: > Hi Gerhard, > > I see that this became a

Re: [time-nuts] Exact Time Mobile Phone Apps

2018-09-02 Thread Ryan Stoner
I haven't seen that app in a long time! I got them to add the option to include a custom NTP server. Great people! On my Android phone I use ClockSync < https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.org.amip.ClockSync>. It has a ton of features especially if your phone is rooted. -- Ryan

Re: [time-nuts] Frequency over fiber (was WWV and legal issues)

2018-09-02 Thread Dana Whitlow
Question: Supposing you buy a bundle of a couple of dozen fibers inside one outer jacket: Can anyone give me an idea of how well the individual fibers are likely to be matched in delay, and in delay tempco? Dana On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 1:46 PM Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > In

Re: [time-nuts] News

2018-09-02 Thread Magnus Danielson
Hi Didier, Many thanks! Much appreciated! It's indeed a process which comes with requirements. Turns out I have done quite a bit of things in my professional career that makes me distinguish myself sufficiently. To be honest, some of the stuff on my CV looks very strange, but it strangely enough

Re: [time-nuts] Frequency over fiber (was WWV and legal issues)

2018-09-02 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message , Bob kb8tq writes: > That’s why they design a certain amount of “slack” into the structure. As far as I know, thermal expansion and contact losses are far bigger dimensioning factors, except for a few very active fault-lines. At these fault-lines and/or with very important

Re: [time-nuts] Frequency over fiber (was WWV and legal issues)

2018-09-02 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi Motion at a fault line can be a bit chaotic. As that motion stretches (or stops stretching) the cable the delay is likely to change. How much does it change? no idea. If vibration messes with it, stretch should as well. Hopefully the fiber “spiralt” inside the outer jacket is enough to

Re: [time-nuts] News

2018-09-02 Thread Magnus Danielson
Hi Paul, Many thanks! Much appreciated! I'm committed to this field, and I try to share as much knowledge and insight I managed to gather, as I have picked up a lot from this list alone, but also in my strive to find answers to questions we all had. Now, the Senior Membership of IEEE is not

Re: [time-nuts] News

2018-09-02 Thread paul swed
Magnus Congratulations on becoming a Senior member of the IEEE. Thank you for your help over time. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 7:23 AM, Didier Juges wrote: > Congratulations Magnus, a well deserved reward for your contributions. My > boss is a Senior Member and I know they do not

Re: [time-nuts] Frequency over fiber (was WWV and legal issues)

2018-09-02 Thread Azelio Boriani
Why should there be a variation in the fiber's delay across an active fault line? The fiber could only break at the fault line, lay down more fiber than needed, to compensate the movement, and the delay doesn't change. On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 4:51 PM Bob kb8tq wrote: > > Hi > > Tidal effects can

Re: [time-nuts] Frequency over fiber (was WWV and legal issues)

2018-09-02 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi Tidal effects can be very “non linear” as you approach a coast line. Lots of change over a fairly short distance. If indeed the world decides to put in a global PTTI fiber system, all of this would get into the mix on some links. It appears that the existing technology would handle the

Re: [time-nuts] Lots of Off Topic discussion

2018-09-02 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi The referenced line item is $6.8 million a year. It is still very much unclear if that is just WWV(H) (from the reference it must include them) or if it also includes WWWVB. Without any clarification, we are only guessing about WWVB. Given the way the budget process works, there’s never a

Re: [time-nuts] WWV/WWVB in NTP surveys

2018-09-02 Thread Björn
Hi, There are LF receivers available commercially today. See links below for one vendor. https://www.meinbergglobal.com/english/products/pci-express-dcf77-clock.htm and even an USB version for the NIST signal. https://www.meinbergglobal.com/english/products/usb-wwvb-clock.htm And there

Re: [time-nuts] Frequency over fiber (was WWV and legal issues)

2018-09-02 Thread Tom Van Baak
> I suspect there’s a longer list of “slow” environmental effects that are also > taken > care of with the compensation setup. One would guess that crossing a active > fault line would be “interesting”. Yes, here's a back of the envelope calculation for you: - the Pacific Northwest moves on

Re: [time-nuts] Lots of Off Topic discussion

2018-09-02 Thread Artek Manuals
Does any one know what the line item $$$ amount is for the WWV/WWVB operating budget? -DC NR1DX manu...@artekmanuals.com On 9/1/2018 11:59 PM, Peter Laws wrote: On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 7:25 PM Bob kb8tq wrote: I most certainly *have* seen an NTP server that ran off of WWVB and relayed the

Re: [time-nuts] Frequency over fiber (was WWV and legal issues)

2018-09-02 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi > On Sep 2, 2018, at 7:17 AM, Magnus Danielson > wrote: > > Hi Gerhard, > > I see that this became a separate thread. > > On 09/02/2018 01:38 AM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: >> >> >> Am 01.09.2018 um 20:40 schrieb Magnus Danielson: >>> One should first know that there is a lot of papers now

[time-nuts] Lots of Off Topic discussion,

2018-09-02 Thread Joe Hobart
Scott McGrath I am an amateur radio operator (62 years), and I have accurate 1 PPS and 10 MHz available. I also coordinate emergency communications for this very large county. I use WWV: To judge propagation during normal and other than normal times To set clocks after a power outage

[time-nuts] Exact Time Mobile Phone Apps

2018-09-02 Thread D. Resor
I believe someone mentioned a cell phone "time" app. This is an image of the one I use for my iPhone. It is Emerald Sequoia. It queries correct time requests from four different NTP servers then picks the one with the least amount of response delay I believe. Of course when I'm out setting

Re: [time-nuts] Frequency over fiber (was WWV and legal issues)

2018-09-02 Thread Magnus Danielson
Hi Gerhard, I see that this became a separate thread. On 09/02/2018 01:38 AM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: > > > Am 01.09.2018 um 20:40 schrieb Magnus Danielson: >> One should first know that there is a lot of papers now on frequency >> transfer over fiber. The stability achieved on the best ones