Re: [time-nuts] TS2100 OCXO Conversion: Command exploration
And, as of today, I still can't get it to lock. :-P I think I'm going to have to conclude, reluctantly, that the full-size OCXO's are simply not compatible with this unit. It strikes me as possible there may be other hardware changes needed to run such. It's just impossible to tell for certain without some kind of schematic. So -- Reverse conversion, here we go. Looks like I'll just have to settle for a square wave until I can find a couple of MTI 240's Thanks to all who rendered assistance. On 07-Apr-18 16:08, Esa Heikkinen wrote: > Hi! > > I have TS2100 which I modified from TCXO to OCXO. I have the 'offical' > MTI OCXO, which I bought from someone on this board. I have also > replaced the GPS unit to the HEOL Design model, which was required to > get correct time at all. It's also much more accurate than the original > Trimble. > >> Now, with all this said: I'm still waiting for a 'Lock' indicator on >> the front. It's tracking, and the D/A value certainly has changed from >> what I had it at last night, but I'm still not getting a lock. Here are >> my current numbers: > > If I turn off the unit and the OCXO is totally cooled down then it might > need even 2-3 hours before getting the LOCK indicator on again! So > please be patient. > > According to my measurements the LOCK indicator will turn on when the > PPS has gone within 1 microsecond of UTC. But it's not fully locked > even at this point! With HEOL Design GPS unit it will end up within 50 > nanoseconds of UTC, but that requires even more time. > > If you have trouble with locking you should compare the PPS with > oscilloscope with some other receiver (for example Thunderbolt) or maybe > you could 'steal' the PPS from the internal GPS and compare it with > output. You should see it trying to reach the correct PPS and if it > passes it at startup, it should change the direction and finally settle > near the PPS input. In case of trouble you could also try with different > A/D values manually and see what they do. > >> root timing utils tfp 0 -- returned 0x00f2 > > That cannot be correct: Value is too low, near zero volts perhaps and it > might be clipped. Looks like it has drived itself to the lower limit > without getting correct feedback. This is a clear sign that clock > steering is not working at all. > > From my unit: > 1 ? tim > 2 ? utils > 3 ? tfp 0 > 0xb676 > >> root timing utils tfp 6 -- returned KM = 0.9994965 > > 4 ? tfp 6 > KM = 0.9994965 > >> root timing utils tfp 7 -- returned KO = 0.9994965 > > 5 ? tfp 7 > KO = 0.9994965 > >> root timing utils gain -- returned gain now:20 (There seems to be a > > 6 ? gain > gain now:-20 > >> root eng eeprom info -- returned 0024 > > Same here. Please note that to enable any eeprom writes you must close > JP4 temporary. > > By the way: you don't need to start every command with 'root'. It just > resets the menu structure back start every time, which sounds > impractical. You gan enter the menus, type '?' to see the available > commands and go back to previous menu level with 'pop' command. > >> Any thoughts on why I don't have a lock as yet? > > According to A/D value it looks like clock steering is not working at > all. You should use oscilloscope to find out if A/D values have any > effect at all. > > If you have rubidium or other kind of 10 MHz source put it to one trace > of oscilloscope and TS2100 10 MHz output to another. Then try with > different A/D values manually and see if it's even possible to get waves > syncronized. If it's not possible with any A/D value then it will never > lock, perhaps your OCXO is not compatible. > -- --- Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TS2100 OCXO Conversion: Command exploration
Philip Jackson kirjoitti: It's been a while since I last played with a TS2100 given the roll over issue, but IIRC the "lock" LED is an indication that you have more than a specified number of satellites (four sounds familiar) with a signal reading above a certain threshold. I don't think it means oscillator discipline lock. No, TRACKING indicator is for that and LOCK indicator means that PPS is within 1 microsecond of UTC. -- 73s! Esa OH4KJU ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TS2100 OCXO Conversion: Command exploration
Hi! I have TS2100 which I modified from TCXO to OCXO. I have the 'offical' MTI OCXO, which I bought from someone on this board. I have also replaced the GPS unit to the HEOL Design model, which was required to get correct time at all. It's also much more accurate than the original Trimble. Now, with all this said: I'm still waiting for a 'Lock' indicator on the front. It's tracking, and the D/A value certainly has changed from what I had it at last night, but I'm still not getting a lock. Here are my current numbers: If I turn off the unit and the OCXO is totally cooled down then it might need even 2-3 hours before getting the LOCK indicator on again! So please be patient. According to my measurements the LOCK indicator will turn on when the PPS has gone within 1 microsecond of UTC. But it's not fully locked even at this point! With HEOL Design GPS unit it will end up within 50 nanoseconds of UTC, but that requires even more time. If you have trouble with locking you should compare the PPS with oscilloscope with some other receiver (for example Thunderbolt) or maybe you could 'steal' the PPS from the internal GPS and compare it with output. You should see it trying to reach the correct PPS and if it passes it at startup, it should change the direction and finally settle near the PPS input. In case of trouble you could also try with different A/D values manually and see what they do. root timing utils tfp 0 -- returned 0x00f2 That cannot be correct: Value is too low, near zero volts perhaps and it might be clipped. Looks like it has drived itself to the lower limit without getting correct feedback. This is a clear sign that clock steering is not working at all. From my unit: 1 ? tim 2 ? utils 3 ? tfp 0 0xb676 root timing utils tfp 6 -- returned KM = 0.9994965 4 ? tfp 6 KM = 0.9994965 root timing utils tfp 7 -- returned KO = 0.9994965 5 ? tfp 7 KO = 0.9994965 root timing utils gain -- returned gain now:20 (There seems to be a 6 ? gain gain now:-20 root eng eeprom info -- returned 0024 Same here. Please note that to enable any eeprom writes you must close JP4 temporary. By the way: you don't need to start every command with 'root'. It just resets the menu structure back start every time, which sounds impractical. You gan enter the menus, type '?' to see the available commands and go back to previous menu level with 'pop' command. Any thoughts on why I don't have a lock as yet? According to A/D value it looks like clock steering is not working at all. You should use oscilloscope to find out if A/D values have any effect at all. If you have rubidium or other kind of 10 MHz source put it to one trace of oscilloscope and TS2100 10 MHz output to another. Then try with different A/D values manually and see if it's even possible to get waves syncronized. If it's not possible with any A/D value then it will never lock, perhaps your OCXO is not compatible. -- 73s! Esa OH4KJU ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TS2100 OCXO Conversion: Command exploration
Hi Piezo was in Carlisle rather than Carlyle PA. It was absorbed into the Corning / Oak empire almost 20 years ago. Corning / Oak amalgamated with Vectron a bit over ten years ago. Piezo was the original OCXO supplier on the TBolt boards. If it is a TBolt part, just like the later OCXO’s it will have a pretty large EFC range. That may or may not make the TS2100 happy. Bob > On Apr 7, 2018, at 2:46 PM, Bruce Lane wrote: > > Fellow Time-Tickers, > > I'm still experimenting with conversion of the TS2100 from standard TTL > oscillator to OCXO. More specifically, the OCXO I'm trying is made by > the now-defunct Piezo Crystal Company, Carlyle, PA. It's their model > 2900082-47, and from what little I've been able to discover, it seems to > match the large 'U56' pattern in the 2100. It is said to be a direct > replacement for the Trimble-branded 37266, so I'm hoping its EFC voltage > is in the 0-5V range. > > I've made much progress in deciphering the menu structure of the 'root > eng' section, thanks to past posts from Greg Dowd and others. Permit me > to explain, for the benefit of those who may be having trouble making > the 'intuitive leap,' as it were. Please note, everything I'm describing > here is done with a hardware RS232 connection directly to the unit, on > P4 - Serial port B. Comm parameters used were 9600-8-N-1, no flow control. > > Symmetricom, apparently, used single words as commands. Anything > following the first word in a command list, unless clearly called out by > an underscore (as in the command 'eeprom_select') is merely descriptive > commentary for the command itself. > > Here's some examples. We'll start with the command 'root' (minus the > quotes, of course). If you type 'root' and simply hit enter, nothing > appears to happen. However, if you type 'root ?' and hit enter, you get > this: > > Commands > > network / > timing / > serial / > utility / > intrinsic help > > > This is indeed the visible 'root' level of the command directory. Note > the valuable (to techies) 'root eng' is hidden. Type that command, add a > question mark at the end, hit enter, and you get this: > > > Commands > > start net interface > timing tools / > serial tools / > eeprom tools / > spi tools / > flash tools / > display tools / > memory tools / > intrinsic help > > > Type 'root eng eeprom ?' and hit enter, and you get: > > > Commands > > ethernet address > board serial number > gain default > filter constant > low filter constant > precision > set eeprom > get eeprom > read serial eeprom > write serial eeprom > tx 16 bits to eeprom > location for image > info value > eeprom_select > intrinsic help > > > Do you see the pattern? The first word, and only the first word, is the > command and whatever you type after that is what value you want entered > as part of the command. The question mark shows a list of commands > available under whatever section you're in. > > Example: Type 'root eng eeprom gain' and the far left column will show > you what the current gain setting is. Type something like 'root eng > eeprom gain -20' and your gain will be set to -20 and the value stored > in the EEPROM. > > Now, here's the fun part. Remember how I'd originally asked about > changing the D/A value, and I couldn't seem to get the syntax right? As > I recall, other list members have had similar issues. > > Check this out: Type 'root timing utils ?' and hit enter. You get: > > > Commands > > tfp data > jam sync > force jam > phase on > adjust time > generator offset > gain adjust > filter constant > low filter constant > diff value > d/a load > leap second utc > reference time > cmp delay > intrinsic help > > > Now, try this one: 'root timing utils d/a' and hit enter. Here's what I > gor: > > D/A value (0x - 0x) now:0x178 > > Next, I tried: 'root timing utils d/a 0x180' and hit enter. Lo and > behold, when I queried the value again, I got: > > D/A value (0x - 0x) now:0x180 > > So -- That's how to set the D/A constant in the beastie! > > Now, with all this said: I'm still waiting for a 'Lock' indicator on > the front. It's tracking, and the D/A value certainly has changed from > what I had it at last night, but I'm still not getting a lock. Here are > my current numbers: > > root timing utils tfp 0 -- returned 0x00f2 > root timing utils tfp 6 -- returned KM = 0.9994965 > root timing utils tfp 7 -- returned KO = 0.9994965 > root timing utils gain -- returned gain now:20 (There seems to be a > difference of opinion as to whether -20 or 20 shoul
Re: [time-nuts] TS2100 OCXO Conversion: Command exploration
Bruce Thanks for posting your research. Re. the Lock question. It's been a while since I last played with a TS2100 given the roll over issue, but IIRC the "lock" LED is an indication that you have more than a specified number of satellites (four sounds familiar) with a signal reading above a certain threshold. I don't think it means oscillator discipline lock. So if you haven't changed any of the masks that are used to interpret the data coming off the GPS card then I would investigate the quality of your signal into the receiver. There's a GPS menu under the TIMING menu that will give you a readout of signal strengths. What antenna are you using and how long and what type of cable is the downlead? Does the antenna have a complete view of the sky? The default masks assume a low angle of acceptance I believe. Philip -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Lane Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2018 2:46 PM To: TimeNuts Subject: [time-nuts] TS2100 OCXO Conversion: Command exploration Fellow Time-Tickers, I'm still experimenting with conversion of the TS2100 from standard TTL oscillator to OCXO. More specifically, the OCXO I'm trying is made by the now-defunct Piezo Crystal Company, Carlyle, PA. It's their model 2900082-47, and from what little I've been able to discover, it seems to match the large 'U56' pattern in the 2100. It is said to be a direct replacement for the Trimble-branded 37266, so I'm hoping its EFC voltage is in the 0-5V range. I've made much progress in deciphering the menu structure of the 'root eng' section, thanks to past posts from Greg Dowd and others. Permit me to explain, for the benefit of those who may be having trouble making the 'intuitive leap,' as it were. Please note, everything I'm describing here is done with a hardware RS232 connection directly to the unit, on P4 - Serial port B. Comm parameters used were 9600-8-N-1, no flow control. Symmetricom, apparently, used single words as commands. Anything following the first word in a command list, unless clearly called out by an underscore (as in the command 'eeprom_select') is merely descriptive commentary for the command itself. Here's some examples. We'll start with the command 'root' (minus the quotes, of course). If you type 'root' and simply hit enter, nothing appears to happen. However, if you type 'root ?' and hit enter, you get this: Commands network / timing / serial / utility / intrinsic help This is indeed the visible 'root' level of the command directory. Note the valuable (to techies) 'root eng' is hidden. Type that command, add a question mark at the end, hit enter, and you get this: Commands start net interface timing tools / serial tools / eeprom tools / spi tools / flash tools / display tools / memory tools / intrinsic help Type 'root eng eeprom ?' and hit enter, and you get: Commands ethernet address board serial number gain default filter constant low filter constant precision set eeprom get eeprom read serial eeprom write serial eeprom tx 16 bits to eeprom location for image info value eeprom_select intrinsic help Do you see the pattern? The first word, and only the first word, is the command and whatever you type after that is what value you want entered as part of the command. The question mark shows a list of commands available under whatever section you're in. Example: Type 'root eng eeprom gain' and the far left column will show you what the current gain setting is. Type something like 'root eng eeprom gain -20' and your gain will be set to -20 and the value stored in the EEPROM. Now, here's the fun part. Remember how I'd originally asked about changing the D/A value, and I couldn't seem to get the syntax right? As I recall, other list members have had similar issues. Check this out: Type 'root timing utils ?' and hit enter. You get: Commands tfp data jam sync force jam phase on adjust time generator offset gain adjust filter constant low filter constant diff value d/a load leap second utc reference time cmp delay intrinsic help Now, try this one: 'root timing utils d/a' and hit enter. Here's what I gor: D/A value (0x - 0x) now:0x178 Next, I tried: 'root timing utils d/a 0x180' and hit enter. Lo and behold, when I qu
[time-nuts] TS2100 OCXO Conversion: Command exploration
Fellow Time-Tickers, I'm still experimenting with conversion of the TS2100 from standard TTL oscillator to OCXO. More specifically, the OCXO I'm trying is made by the now-defunct Piezo Crystal Company, Carlyle, PA. It's their model 2900082-47, and from what little I've been able to discover, it seems to match the large 'U56' pattern in the 2100. It is said to be a direct replacement for the Trimble-branded 37266, so I'm hoping its EFC voltage is in the 0-5V range. I've made much progress in deciphering the menu structure of the 'root eng' section, thanks to past posts from Greg Dowd and others. Permit me to explain, for the benefit of those who may be having trouble making the 'intuitive leap,' as it were. Please note, everything I'm describing here is done with a hardware RS232 connection directly to the unit, on P4 - Serial port B. Comm parameters used were 9600-8-N-1, no flow control. Symmetricom, apparently, used single words as commands. Anything following the first word in a command list, unless clearly called out by an underscore (as in the command 'eeprom_select') is merely descriptive commentary for the command itself. Here's some examples. We'll start with the command 'root' (minus the quotes, of course). If you type 'root' and simply hit enter, nothing appears to happen. However, if you type 'root ?' and hit enter, you get this: Commands network / timing / serial / utility / intrinsic help This is indeed the visible 'root' level of the command directory. Note the valuable (to techies) 'root eng' is hidden. Type that command, add a question mark at the end, hit enter, and you get this: Commands start net interface timing tools / serial tools / eeprom tools / spi tools / flash tools / display tools / memory tools / intrinsic help Type 'root eng eeprom ?' and hit enter, and you get: Commands ethernet address board serial number gain default filter constant low filter constant precision set eeprom get eeprom read serial eeprom write serial eeprom tx 16 bits to eeprom location for image info value eeprom_select intrinsic help Do you see the pattern? The first word, and only the first word, is the command and whatever you type after that is what value you want entered as part of the command. The question mark shows a list of commands available under whatever section you're in. Example: Type 'root eng eeprom gain' and the far left column will show you what the current gain setting is. Type something like 'root eng eeprom gain -20' and your gain will be set to -20 and the value stored in the EEPROM. Now, here's the fun part. Remember how I'd originally asked about changing the D/A value, and I couldn't seem to get the syntax right? As I recall, other list members have had similar issues. Check this out: Type 'root timing utils ?' and hit enter. You get: Commands tfp data jam sync force jam phase on adjust time generator offset gain adjust filter constant low filter constant diff value d/a load leap second utc reference time cmp delay intrinsic help Now, try this one: 'root timing utils d/a' and hit enter. Here's what I gor: D/A value (0x - 0x) now:0x178 Next, I tried: 'root timing utils d/a 0x180' and hit enter. Lo and behold, when I queried the value again, I got: D/A value (0x - 0x) now:0x180 So -- That's how to set the D/A constant in the beastie! Now, with all this said: I'm still waiting for a 'Lock' indicator on the front. It's tracking, and the D/A value certainly has changed from what I had it at last night, but I'm still not getting a lock. Here are my current numbers: root timing utils tfp 0 -- returned 0x00f2 root timing utils tfp 6 -- returned KM = 0.9994965 root timing utils tfp 7 -- returned KO = 0.9994965 root timing utils gain -- returned gain now:20 (There seems to be a difference of opinion as to whether -20 or 20 should be used. At this point, I'm tempted to just set it to zero and see what happens). root eng eeprom info -- returned 0024 Any thoughts on why I don't have a lock as yet? And -- I hope this helps out others. Thanks much! -- --- Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
