Re: [time-nuts] WWVB phase plots

2012-03-21 Thread Peter Monta
Okay. A little 3586B hacking was required, but here are some wide-band results: http://www.jks.com/wwvb/wwvb.html#wideband Thanks very much. This data shows the full-bandwidth WWVB signal very well. Attached are some plots and an octave script. The first plot shows the demodulated WWVB

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB phase plots

2012-03-20 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message 20120320031431.bf564800...@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net, Hal Mu rray writes: Could somebody please say a bit more about that area. My Shannon level theory is weak. Why does more transitions help anything? Or what does it help? The transitions (where the phase change!) are what

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB phase plots

2012-03-20 Thread Peter Monta
The transitions (where the phase change!) are what you correlate, the more, the better S/N you get. Yes---it's too bad that the proposed WWVB changes don't increase the number of transitions at all. Could they not do the low-modulation-index DCF77-like signal on top of the BPSK? That is, put

[time-nuts] WWVB phase plots

2012-03-20 Thread Bill Fuqua
Yes---it's too bad that the proposed WWVB changes don't increase the number of transitions at all. Could they not do the low-modulation-index DCF77-like signal on top of the BPSK? That is, put some small, fast phase wiggles on top of the slow 180-degree transitions (or 120-degree transitions

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB phase plots

2012-03-20 Thread paul swed
Jeeze the answers simple DCF is metric and wwvb in english. They never work correctly together. ;-) Regards Paul WB8TSL On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 6:18 AM, Peter Monta pmo...@gmail.com wrote: The transitions (where the phase change!) are what you correlate, the more, the better S/N you get.

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB phase plots

2012-03-20 Thread John Seamons
On Mar 20, 2012, at 4:18 AM, Peter Monta wrote: John, if you're reading this, would your receiver be capable of recording with wider RF bandwidth? Your recordings made during the test period have a bandwidth of about 30 Hz; can it go any wider? I think your web page says you're using an

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB phase plots

2012-03-19 Thread Dennis Ferguson
On 18 Mar, 2012, at 10:52 , John Seamons wrote: They do talk about using the 11-bit Barker code for autocorrelation. But the sync bits transmitted only match the Barker code if you interpret them a little bit out-of-order. The part of the paper that talked about the Barker code confused me

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB phase plots

2012-03-19 Thread ehydra
What makes me wonder: Why don't they adapt the DCF77 implementation? Is it the not invented here syndrome? At it looks like they never heard of Kasami sequences. - Henry Dennis Ferguson schrieb: On 18 Mar, 2012, at 10:52 , John Seamons wrote: They do talk about using the 11-bit Barker

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB phase plots

2012-03-19 Thread Brooke Clarke
Hi Henry: There are millions of WWVB clocks in use and the new signal must be fully compatible with them. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html ehydra wrote: What makes me wonder: Why don't they adapt the DCF77 implementation?

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB phase plots

2012-03-19 Thread ehydra
Hm. I had a quick look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWVB I cannot see why it won't work with the DCF77 scheme. The carrier is always on-air. Do I miss something? To low bandwidth of the transmitting antenna? Sorry, I didn't followed the thread in whole. - Henry Brooke Clarke schrieb: Hi

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB phase plots

2012-03-19 Thread Dennis Ferguson
DCF77's AM modulation is a much better fit for what they did, and a much better design in general. All the useful phase modulation needs to be carried by the carrier at full power. DCF77's AM modulation drops the carrier power for only 100 ms or 200 ms at the beginning of the second, which gives

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB phase plots

2012-03-19 Thread Hal Murray
It is also the case the DCF77's phase modulation probably isn't as good as it could be if the goal is to find it in the noise since it only swings +/- 15 degrees rather than +/- 90. Its big advantage might be that it is high speed, with lots of transitions, so you can probably measure phase

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB phase plots

2012-03-18 Thread John Seamons
On Mar 16, 2012, at 1:32 AM, Peter Monta wrote: Attached are some more renderings of John Seamons' WWVB data. This is what one might expect from a receiver that knows when the phase reversals happen and takes them out noiselessly---re-reversing the out-of-phase bursts to recover an

[time-nuts] WWVB phase plots

2012-03-16 Thread Peter Monta
Attached are some more renderings of John Seamons' WWVB data. This is what one might expect from a receiver that knows when the phase reversals happen and takes them out noiselessly---re-reversing the out-of-phase bursts to recover an approximation of the usual WWVB signal. The first plot shows