Am Fri, 21 Feb 2014 11:42:05 -0800 (PST)
schrieb Bob Albert bob91...@yahoo.com:
Oops yes I goofed, it's 500 MHz. 500 GHz is beyond state of the art
I would think.
Depends on your circuit development skills. Bipolars with gain at
500GHz are in principle possible, both in III/V-semiconductors
@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New WWVB modulation format receivers
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Clint
I don't know if it was me or not the said the doubling scheme did not
work.
It does
On 2/20/14, 8:51 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
You can get parts in the 18 bit and up range for not a whole lot of money
with rational sample rates for a WWVB receiver. Analog Devices and Linear
Tech both make some interesting looking parts. They get you into the =100 db
dynamic range area.
On 2/20/14, 10:35 PM, Graeme Zimmer wrote:
I have a Kenwood TS-940S transceiver that can receive 60 kHz but I
have never heard anything
Where are you? It must be deaf as a post.
Most ham receivers that purport to have coverage down there really
don't. I thought my Flex 5000 should hear
On 2/20/14, 11:08 PM, John Marvin wrote:
I have an OpenHPSDR Hermes and it has no problem receiving WWVB;
however, since I live in Fort Collins - Colorado, part of the success
might just be the strong signal. I wonder if I could just stick a piece
of wire into one of the channel inputs of a
Sorry for comming late to the party...
This may be relevant:
http://phk.freebsd.dk/loran-c/CW/
The basic idea is that you use a high-rate ADC, something like 1MS/s
and then you average into for instance a 1msec = 1.000 samples circular
buffer.
That gives you a very narrow comb filter
On 2/20/14, 11:35 PM, Hal Murray wrote:
Can somebody give me a lesson in the tradeoffs between number of bits and
sampling rate?
Sure, the Shannon-Hartley Theorem. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon%E2%80%93Hartley_theorem
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
706 Flightline Drive
Spring
NOTE: THE FIRST FIVE LINKS DID NOT SHOW AS COMPLETE ADDRESSES -- I AM
NOT SURE WHY, SO YOU WILL HAVE TO COPY THE LINE AND INSERT INTO YOUR
URL LINE.
Hi Bob,
Here are a couple of HP Appnotes, in PDF form, that will get you started
in your quest. Some of the references to standard
Hi Bob,
Here are a couple of HP Appnotes, in PDF form, that will get you started
in your quest. Some of the references to standard frequency
transmissions may be somewhat outdated but the overall data is still
valid. The first one is the original publication done in the early
1960's and
Hi
Part of the typical receiving process is reducing the bandwidth. With a smaller
bandwidth you can get away with a lower sample rate without loosing useful
information. The normal approach is to drop the sample rate as you move through
the system.
When you drop the sample rate (say 4:1)
Well, I used to be able to see LORAN pulses w/ a 3-inch diameter loop and
a Tek 7000-series 'scope.
WWVB is hard to detect w/ a 3-foot diameter HP shielded loop w/ integral
preamp 2 stages of mechanical filters. (HP 117A). The other half ogf the
time it was undetectable.
Paul S uses a loop that
Indeed the old Don Lancaster and Ralph Burhan articles were key to my
pre-time nuttery interests. But I am very interested in the psk31 approach.
I actually hacked around a bit with several of the Ham programs. But none
seemed to allow you to get to just the BPSK raw data. (I could have missed
the
John
Nantucket's been destroyed a sad day last May. But suppose the property
value has gone up now.
Regards
Paul.
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 10:13 AM, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote:
Well, I used to be able to see LORAN pulses w/ a 3-inch diameter loop and
a Tek 7000-series 'scope.
WWVB is
Many ham transceivers can tune that low, but they are indeed completely deaf
because the input filter (including coupling transformer) takes most of the
signal out and the phase noise of the synthesizers cover the rest in noise.
Didier KO4BB
On February 20, 2014 10:35:06 PM CST, Graeme Zimmer
At work we have various models of these Selena LED clock displays in the
new control center and dispatching rooms:
http://www.ledclocks.com/SELENA4x7.pdf
We use the bare unit which just has a Cat5 Ethernet jack that syncs to a
NTP clock on the network, but they also list options for WWVB, DCF77,
Bob,
If you are looking for an accurate, easy to use timing signal then GPS
is the one you want. WWV and WWVB are what I call legacy signals
and while they might be accurate when broadcast there is propagation
delay and unknown atmospheric and ionospheric conditions.
But the question is How
Boy do I need to agree with Chris's comments above. If this is anything
serious GPS really is the answer in all respects. Yes there is the risk of
something happening. But amazingly a lot of the GPS receivers hold onto
time pretty well even without GPS.
The whole WWVB thing makes sense as a
I looked on line and it seems that these receivers are available for about $150
and up. A little out of my price range right now but I'll keep my eyes open.
I presume that with a reasonable antenna this unit will give me a very precise
10 MHz which I can use to synchronize my counter. I am
Bob
Yes they will. But there is a danger here when you say very precise. On
Time-Nuts those are very particular words that can carry a very long email
thread.
You say that the complete solutions are a bit out of range.
Today there are lots of solutions if you want use a soldering iron.
Each has
Back to basics, please. Just how does GPS achieve its precision and accuracy?
I presume everything must relate to NIST eventually.
Bob
On Friday, February 21, 2014 10:04 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
Bob
Yes they will. But there is a danger here when you say very precise. On
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Bob Albert bob91...@yahoo.com wrote:
I looked on line and it seems that these receivers are available for about
$150 and up. A little out of my price range right now but I'll keep my eyes
open.
Watch the thread on this list about the Arduino based GPSDO. I
Well if we are talking about $50 then you have my attention.
No I am not afraid to use a soldering iron. Amateur radio is not my main
interest here. I have the same compulsion many of you out there seem to have,
that if I can get more accuracy I want it. I get that content smile on my face
500 GHz ? Really? How? Even counting 100 GHz is pushing it.
You mean MHz, no?
-John
==
Well if we are talking about $50 then you have my attention.
No I am not afraid to use a soldering iron. Amateur radio is not my main
interest here. I have the same compulsion many of
-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Bob Albert
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 1:41 PM
To: Chris Albertson; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New WWVB modulation format receivers (NOT)
Well if we are talking
Am Thu, 20 Feb 2014 16:02:03 -0500
schrieb Chuck Harris cfhar...@erols.com:
At 60KHz, it shouldn't be out of range of most
general purpose CPU's, and even the most pathetic DSP.
Actually, I was referring to the price tag associated with having a
custom chip done... ;-) I fully agree that the
Oops yes I goofed, it's 500 MHz. 500 GHz is beyond state of the art I would
think.
So GPS satellites are NIST in miniature it seems. That's a lot of payload but
now I have to see how to gain access to it.
Bob
On Friday, February 21, 2014 11:17 AM, Florian Teply use...@teply.info wrote:
Hi Paul:
The problem with GPS is you don't get the DST bits.
For the OP that's OK, but if you want local time it isn't.
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
paul swed wrote:
Boy do I need to agree with Chris's comments above. If
@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New WWVB modulation format receivers
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Clint
I don't know if it was me or not the said the doubling scheme did not work.
It does work
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New WWVB modulation format receivers
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Clint
I don't know
I am wondering if it's a tough road to get precise time and frequency.
How precise do you want? How much money do you have?
1/2 :), but you are asking on the time-nuts list so you should expect answers
like that.
I would love to discipline my counter and signal generator time bases to
One of the simplest ways to receive VLF signals is to buy a surplus
Selective Level Meter.
They were an important piece of test equipment used by the analog
line-line telephony people. Now of course, surplus to requirements.
If you hunt around they can be found at very low prices.
jim...@earthlink.net said:
I sample at 100 kHz with 16 bits on a teensy3..
Neat. Thanks. How many effective bits? (when the input signal is 60 KHz it
that matters)
Can somebody give me a lesson in the tradeoffs between number of bits and
sampling rate?
I know of one special case. If
that is perhaps another 60kHz station they have one in England too!
73
KJ6HN
Alex
On 2/20/2014 8:35 PM, Graeme Zimmer wrote:
I have a Kenwood TS-940S transceiver that can receive 60 kHz but I
have never heard anything
Where are you? It must be deaf as a post.
I can hear WWVB in Australia !
My TS-940S acts as though it receives okay at 60 kHz. Not great sensitivity
but it does receive.
Most HP GPS receivers are expensive ($400?). I was hoping to get some results
with what I have, although I'm willing to cobble up some circuitry.
I assume if I can receive the signal, I can
Or a discreet receiver using time-nut available stuff. NIST should be the
one that owns the format and they have published it.
Regards
Paul
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:45 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist
rich...@karlquist.com wrote:
On 2/19/2014 9:10 PM, John Marvin wrote:
I guess my question
Sounds like a great Kickstarter project for some time nuttiers.
On 2/19/2014 9:10 PM, John Marvin wrote:
I guess my question is who has the right to grant exclusive rights for
the ability to decode a very simple protocol? Was a patent actually
granted for this?
John
They have exclusive
Am Wed, 19 Feb 2014 22:45:56 -0800
schrieb Richard (Rick) Karlquist rich...@karlquist.com:
On 2/19/2014 9:10 PM, John Marvin wrote:
I guess my question is who has the right to grant exclusive
rights for the ability to decode a very simple protocol? Was a
patent actually granted for
Paul Swed posted a working, mostly analog, design here maybe 6 months ago.
-John
=
Am Wed, 19 Feb 2014 22:45:56 -0800
schrieb Richard (Rick) Karlquist rich...@karlquist.com:
On 2/19/2014 9:10 PM, John Marvin wrote:
I guess my question is who has the right to grant exclusive
At 60KHz, it shouldn't be out of range of most
general purpose CPU's, and even the most pathetic DSP.
Why bother with a hardware solution when software can
do it more easily?
-Chuck Harris
Florian Teply wrote:
Well, if someone comes up with a circuit, I could check how much chip
area that
Chuck thats easy. Because I could make it work. :-)
That said there was a post on time-nuts about LORAN C receiver in software.
I responded and have had the great pleasure of communicating with Matthias
over the last two weeks. I have learned a lot already and he in return has
a tested LORAN C
At least on the Atlantic coast, the WWVB signal levels jump all over the
place, certainly 40 dB and maybe more. If a receiver cannot deal w/ that
w/o losing lock, it's nearly useless.
OTOH, LORAN was always a whopping signal.
-John
Chuck thats easy. Because I could make it
Totally agree with you John as I learned. I knew it was a variable but I
have seen nights that were crazy and do fit your 40 db. I redesigned the
AGC to account for that in the fr front end actually.
Regards
Paul
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 4:34 PM, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote:
At least on
The large amplitude swings happen on a very short time scale too.
Certainly 1 second at times.
-John
Totally agree with you John as I learned. I knew it was a variable but I
have seen nights that were crazy and do fit your 40 db. I redesigned the
AGC to account for that in the
Hi Paul,
could you give a hint how long ago you released the front end to T_N?
thanks
Neville Michie
(Sydney)
On 21/02/2014, at 8:29 AM, paul swed wrote:
Chuck thats easy. Because I could make it work. :-)
That said there was a post on time-nuts about LORAN C receiver in software.
I
Several years ago I spotted a clever PIC-based software (DSP-ish)
approach to WWVB modulation - but it has thusfar defied my attempts to
find it via Google. It was from the late 90's, early 2000's - and I may
have it in an archive somewhere.
The exact details escape me, but I believe that it
On Thursday, February 20, 2014, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote:
The large amplitude swings happen on a very short time scale too.
Certainly 1 second at times.
8-bits is 48 dB. 16-bit parts at 60kHz should be cheap now. Why bother with
AGC? Just make sure the ADC doesn't clip.
Hi
You can get parts in the 18 bit and up range for not a whole lot of money with
rational sample rates for a WWVB receiver. Analog Devices and Linear Tech both
make some interesting looking parts. They get you into the =100 db dynamic
range area.
Even with a lower bit count part, you pick
Clint
I don't know if it was me or not the said the doubling scheme did not work.
It does work but profoundly unreliably at least on the east coast. If you
miss one cycle of carrier you loose phase making it useless. Jfor here on
Time nuts and I tried a lot of things to get around the issues
Hi Paul,
how was that 60kHz RF front end made I was not wit the group six months
ego could you please send me a copy/
thank you in advance
73
KJ6UHN
Alex
On 2/20/2014 1:29 PM, paul swed wrote:
Chuck thats easy. Because I could make it work. :-)
That said there was a post on time-nuts about
Request sent offline.
Regards
Paul
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Alex Pummer a...@pcscons.com wrote:
Hi Paul,
how was that 60kHz RF front end made I was not wit the group six months
ego could you please send me a copy/
thank you in advance
73
KJ6UHN
Alex
On 2/20/2014 1:29 PM, paul
Several years ago I spotted a clever PIC-based software (DSP-ish)
approach to WWVB modulation
Perhaps it was mine?
Years ago I designed a PSK31 decoder using a PIC. It worked very well
for fixed frequencies, but I concluded that making it tunable was beyond
the resources of the PICs then
Its still interesting to read an article from Radio-Electronics Magazine
with date stamp back to August 1973. In that article Don Lancaster
explain few classical techniques how to handle WWVB band.
Regards,
V.P.
On 2014-02-20 20:42, Clint Turner wrote:
Several years ago I spotted a clever
I am wondering if it's a tough road to get precise time and frequency.
I have a Kenwood TS-940S transceiver that can receive 60 kHz but I have never
heard anything I could guess would be WWVB, just a fair amount of noise. I did
calibrate against 20 MHz WWV so that the beat was one every
I have a Kenwood TS-940S transceiver that can receive 60 kHz but I have never
heard anything
Where are you? It must be deaf as a post.
I can hear WWVB in Australia !
(or at least I could till JJY-60 started in 2001)
... Zim
___
time-nuts
Hi Zim,
With but a very few exceptions most broadband Amateur radfio trancievers
do not do well below 500 KHz even though many allow for tuning below 500
KHz.
BillWB6BNQ
Graeme Zimmer wrote:
I have a Kenwood TS-940S transceiver that can receive 60 kHz but I
have never heard anything
On 2/20/14 4:40 PM, Brian Lloyd wrote:
On Thursday, February 20, 2014, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote:
The large amplitude swings happen on a very short time scale too.
Certainly 1 second at times.
8-bits is 48 dB. 16-bit parts at 60kHz should be cheap now. Why bother with
AGC? Just make
I have an OpenHPSDR Hermes and it has no problem receiving WWVB;
however, since I live in Fort Collins - Colorado, part of the success
might just be the strong signal. I wonder if I could just stick a piece
of wire into one of the channel inputs of a 192Khz sample rate audio
interface
To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to
funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com
- Original Message -
From: John Marvin jm-t...@themarvins.org
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New WWVB modulation format receivers
Wouldn't that be nice!
They implement a new format which destroys much of the installed
infrastructure, then don't actually produce the 'better replacement'.
How very LORAN!
-John
==
It may be true that WWVB is sending out a new
format, but the receivers for it don't seem
actually they are supposed to have general availability by the end of Q1.
Will see and have no idea about the cost.
Not keeping my fingers crossed at all.
Regards
Paul.
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 7:18 PM, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote:
Wouldn't that be nice!
They implement a new format which
I guess my question is who has the right to grant exclusive rights for
the ability to decode a very simple protocol? Was a patent actually
granted for this?
John
On 2/19/2014 4:49 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
It may be true that WWVB is sending out a new
format, but the receivers for
On 2/19/2014 9:10 PM, John Marvin wrote:
I guess my question is who has the right to grant exclusive rights for
the ability to decode a very simple protocol? Was a patent actually
granted for this?
John
They have exclusive rights to the IP core for their IC.
I guess someone else could
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