Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[jimlux]

On 12/3/16 12:27 AM, David J Taylor wrote:

From: jimlux


The Raspberry Pi OS includes a free MATLAB licence, as I expect you
already know.


yes, but

"Note that you cannot install MATLAB as a standalone application or
execute MATLAB code locally on a Raspberry Pi. To develop applications
for the Raspberry Pi to be used in standalone operation, please see the
Raspberry Pi Support from Simulink®."

and of course, we're not using Simulink


There's always a catch, isn't there!  Perhaps this helps?

 https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63=153608

"The open source "Octave" package is a Matlab clone and is the Raspbian
repository. We've run a large base of Matlab code on Linux Octave with
little or no change. One significant catch is that the version in the
Raspian repository is 3.x which does not have the graphical IDE enabled
by default as do the 4.x versions. The later can be built on RPi (512k
or better versions) by following the procedure in the Octave Wiki.
(https://www.gnu.org/software/octave/)"

Cheers,
David



THis is not directly time-nuts-ey, but since we talk a lot about small 
processors that have timers and such, and because people might want to 
run Matlab on that processor, I figure I'll continue.  TVB, let us know 
if we're drifting here.


yes, one could build Octave and run that - I use Octave a LOT, although 
in general, I like Matlab's plotting better than Octave - the default 
choices are better, so I wind up with lots of .m code to make the plots 
look right.


Octave also doesn't have some of the Matlab toolbox stuff, although, as 
described in that forum thread, you can find some of it.


More to the point, the Matlab code I need to run wasn't written by me, 
but by someone else, who's not available to do any of this adaptation to 
Octave.


ALso, this kind of "track down a replacement or reconfigure" takes time, 
which is money - so you have a tradeoff between maybe finding a 
different processor board (which also takes time) that costs a bit more, 
but runs your code unchanged without porting to Octave.


ANother thing I've noticed is that Matlab is a LOT faster than Octave 
for some operations, I've not bothered to figure out exactly what it is 
that makes the difference, but I've got a a bunch of stuff that I'm 
doing where I read in 10 million samples and process them (e.g. radio 
output in a VITA-49 VRT file) and that "read, parse, and store into a 
big array" is an order of magnitude faster on Matlab than on Octave (on 
the same computer).  I'm using the GUI Octave, so maybe its JIT compiler 
isn't as sophisticated as Matlabs - or maybe more of the underlying 
functionality in Octave is in .m files, as opposed to invoking a 
compiled function.



By the way, there apparently IS a way to run non-simulink Matlab code on 
the Pi or BB... for some (TBD) limited subset of Matlab, you can put it 
in a simulink "execute Matlab code" block; compile the Simulink model, 
then squirt it down to the BB or Pi.  Pretty clunky to my mind.. but 
there it is.


"With the MATLAB Function block, you can incorporate MATLAB code into 
your Simulink model."


https://www.mathworks.com/help/simulink/ug/what-is-a-matlab-function-block.html?s_cid=srchtitle

it doesn't allow plot, disp, figure - but I wouldn't be using those on 
the BB or Pi...


Basically, it will generate C/C++ code, so anything that Matlab can 
compile to C code will work.

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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[David J Taylor]

From: jimlux


The Raspberry Pi OS includes a free MATLAB licence, as I expect you
already know.


yes, but

"Note that you cannot install MATLAB as a standalone application or
execute MATLAB code locally on a Raspberry Pi. To develop applications
for the Raspberry Pi to be used in standalone operation, please see the
Raspberry Pi Support from Simulink®."

and of course, we're not using Simulink


There's always a catch, isn't there!  Perhaps this helps?

 https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63=153608

"The open source "Octave" package is a Matlab clone and is the Raspbian 
repository. We've run a large base of Matlab code on Linux Octave with 
little or no change. One significant catch is that the version in the 
Raspian repository is 3.x which does not have the graphical IDE enabled by 
default as do the 4.x versions. The later can be built on RPi (512k or 
better versions) by following the procedure in the Octave Wiki. 
(https://www.gnu.org/software/octave/)"


Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv 


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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[Scott Stobbe]

As far as I know Matlab is x86 only, of course you can generate c code from
Matlab but that has its own challenges.

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 2:14 PM jimlux  wrote:

> On 12/2/16 10:08 AM, David J Taylor wrote:
> > From: jimlux
> >
> > We're processing several thousand samples, received over a serial port
> > or USB in a few seconds.  The algorithm (in Matlab, hence the need for
> > Linux) grinds for around 30 seconds to produce the output.
> > ===
> >
> >
> > The Raspberry Pi OS includes a free MATLAB licence, as I expect you
> > already know.
> >
>
>
>
> yes, but
>
> "Note that you cannot install MATLAB as a standalone application or
> execute MATLAB code locally on a Raspberry Pi. To develop applications
> for the Raspberry Pi to be used in standalone operation, please see the
> Raspberry Pi Support from Simulink®."
>
>
> and of course, we're not using Simulink
>
> > Cheers,
> > David
>
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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[jimlux]

On 12/2/16 10:08 AM, David J Taylor wrote:

From: jimlux

We're processing several thousand samples, received over a serial port
or USB in a few seconds.  The algorithm (in Matlab, hence the need for
Linux) grinds for around 30 seconds to produce the output.
===


The Raspberry Pi OS includes a free MATLAB licence, as I expect you
already know.





yes, but

"Note that you cannot install MATLAB as a standalone application or 
execute MATLAB code locally on a Raspberry Pi. To develop applications 
for the Raspberry Pi to be used in standalone operation, please see the 
Raspberry Pi Support from Simulink®."



and of course, we're not using Simulink


Cheers,
David


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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[David J Taylor]

From: jimlux

We're processing several thousand samples, received over a serial port
or USB in a few seconds.  The algorithm (in Matlab, hence the need for
Linux) grinds for around 30 seconds to produce the output.
===


The Raspberry Pi OS includes a free MATLAB licence, as I expect you already 
know.


Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv 


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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[Brenton Hewitt]

Check out the Beaglbone Green, it has the HDMI chip removed,
The HDMI Chip on the black i can confirm causes gps antenna issues with the 
small patch antennas on the PCB, yet having the antenna on a patch lead works 
fine

Ive made a GPS cape for these using a Ubox Max Series GPS photos of this are on 
Hewball.com.au

Cheers Hewball

> On 1 Dec. 2016, at 4:42 am, jimlux  wrote:
> 
> I'm looking for a small linux single board - similar to RPi or Beaglebone 
> Black, but don't need the HDMI, or video stuff.
> Preferably without weird connectors, and available for wide temperature 
> ranges (it's for a data logger/collector in the field)
> 
> What's out there?
> 
> There's BBB in industrial flavor (-40 to +85C ) for $60-70
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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[Scott Stobbe]

As much as it pains me to recommend them some of the iot modules sound like
a good fit, like the Intel atom one.

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 12:13 PM jimlux  wrote:

> On 12/2/16 8:51 AM, Attila Kinali wrote:
> > On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 08:05:17 -0800
> > jimlux  wrote:
> >
> >>> I'm measuring 0.350A with max cpu usage on all cores and the following
> >>> settings:
> >>>
> >> @ 5V, right, so 1.75W going full out.  That's a useful number to know.
> >
> > I once did an board with an i.m233 (arm9 at 400MHz) and it did less
> > than 0.5W IIRC. But I think this is about the lower you can do without
> > tweaking the OS.
> >
> >>> Apart from that I read somewhere that the beaglebones have terrible EM
> >>> characteristics. But I can't find my source so take it with a grain of
> >>> salt :-)
> >
> > Yes. The BBB is badly designed in this regard... The RPI is better there.
> >
> >> I must say, there are more of these things available in almost too wide
> >> a variety.. You could spend days going through all the datasheets and
> >> websites - I suspect that they ALL have about the same power consumption
> >> for a given amount of processing horsepower - same feature size on the
> >> die, after all - so it's more about peripherals and ease of use
> >
> > There are way too many, IMHO. And a lot of them are not usefull for
> > a lot of stuff or have very bad support. The Odroid are a prime example
> > of this. There is a "community" around them, yet getting them to do
> > anything usefull is a major pain. There is a handfull of companies
> > I know of, who do provide good support and those are the ones I am
> > usually sticking to (unless I have special needs).
> >
> >> And, it's more likely that idiosyncracies in the distros have been
> >> identified and it's more likely that the software will run on them after
> >> its built.
> >
> > It's actually better to go with a company who is invested in giving
> > you a working board than using something popular. Especially one that
> > cares to push all its patches upstream.
> >
> > Beside the mentioned Toradex, and Aries Embedded, there is also Olimex
> > which is known for it's wide variety of boards with good support.
> > Depending on your exact requirements, I would probably go for one of
> > the i.mx233 boards (the imx233 nano is quite neat) or A10 or A33 board.
> > Especially the i.mx233 is nice as it has an on-chip Li-poly
> charger/controller.
> > All you need to do is to supply it with 5V and it does the rest.
> >
> > A note of warning: a lot of the boards from Olimex have not enough ground
> > pins for the high speed singals they provide. If you are transfering data
> > with high-speed (several 10MHz) over the headerpin connectors, you will
> need
> > to add some additional ground connections.
> >
> > What are the exact requirements you have? How much computational power
> > do you need? How do you interface the sensors? How many boards will
> > you need? Is it out of question to build your own processor board using
> > one of the ARM9's in QFP? What is your budget?
>
> We're processing several thousand samples, received over a serial port
> or USB in a few seconds.  The algorithm (in Matlab, hence the need for
> Linux) grinds for around 30 seconds to produce the output.
>
> we're not sensitive on the "board cost" - labor to design a board is
> expensive, so a board that has low power, and the right connectors, so
> it's <1 day to make cables, etc. is a better deal than several weeks to
> design a board and spin it, etc.
>
>
>
> >
> > The reason why I'm asking the last two questions is, it is often more
> efficient
> > to do your own CPU board if you have to design a PCB anyways for the
> sensors,
> > need more than 10-20 boards and you can live with one of the "small"
> ARM9's
> > that come in QFP packages (like the i.mx233 or AM1705).
>
>
>
> That would come later, and be "someone else's problem" - We do the proof
> of concept, "demonstrate that it works in a relevant environment", and
> then it goes from there.
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[jimlux]

On 12/2/16 8:51 AM, Attila Kinali wrote:

On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 08:05:17 -0800
jimlux  wrote:


I'm measuring 0.350A with max cpu usage on all cores and the following
settings:


@ 5V, right, so 1.75W going full out.  That's a useful number to know.


I once did an board with an i.m233 (arm9 at 400MHz) and it did less
than 0.5W IIRC. But I think this is about the lower you can do without
tweaking the OS.


Apart from that I read somewhere that the beaglebones have terrible EM
characteristics. But I can't find my source so take it with a grain of
salt :-)


Yes. The BBB is badly designed in this regard... The RPI is better there.


I must say, there are more of these things available in almost too wide
a variety.. You could spend days going through all the datasheets and
websites - I suspect that they ALL have about the same power consumption
for a given amount of processing horsepower - same feature size on the
die, after all - so it's more about peripherals and ease of use


There are way too many, IMHO. And a lot of them are not usefull for
a lot of stuff or have very bad support. The Odroid are a prime example
of this. There is a "community" around them, yet getting them to do
anything usefull is a major pain. There is a handfull of companies
I know of, who do provide good support and those are the ones I am
usually sticking to (unless I have special needs).


And, it's more likely that idiosyncracies in the distros have been
identified and it's more likely that the software will run on them after
its built.


It's actually better to go with a company who is invested in giving
you a working board than using something popular. Especially one that
cares to push all its patches upstream.

Beside the mentioned Toradex, and Aries Embedded, there is also Olimex
which is known for it's wide variety of boards with good support.
Depending on your exact requirements, I would probably go for one of
the i.mx233 boards (the imx233 nano is quite neat) or A10 or A33 board.
Especially the i.mx233 is nice as it has an on-chip Li-poly charger/controller.
All you need to do is to supply it with 5V and it does the rest.

A note of warning: a lot of the boards from Olimex have not enough ground
pins for the high speed singals they provide. If you are transfering data
with high-speed (several 10MHz) over the headerpin connectors, you will need
to add some additional ground connections.

What are the exact requirements you have? How much computational power
do you need? How do you interface the sensors? How many boards will
you need? Is it out of question to build your own processor board using
one of the ARM9's in QFP? What is your budget?


We're processing several thousand samples, received over a serial port 
or USB in a few seconds.  The algorithm (in Matlab, hence the need for 
Linux) grinds for around 30 seconds to produce the output.


we're not sensitive on the "board cost" - labor to design a board is 
expensive, so a board that has low power, and the right connectors, so 
it's <1 day to make cables, etc. is a better deal than several weeks to 
design a board and spin it, etc.






The reason why I'm asking the last two questions is, it is often more efficient
to do your own CPU board if you have to design a PCB anyways for the sensors,
need more than 10-20 boards and you can live with one of the "small" ARM9's
that come in QFP packages (like the i.mx233 or AM1705).




That would come later, and be "someone else's problem" - We do the proof 
of concept, "demonstrate that it works in a relevant environment", and 
then it goes from there.



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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[Attila Kinali]

On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 08:05:17 -0800
jimlux  wrote:

> > I'm measuring 0.350A with max cpu usage on all cores and the following
> > settings:
> >
> @ 5V, right, so 1.75W going full out.  That's a useful number to know.

I once did an board with an i.m233 (arm9 at 400MHz) and it did less
than 0.5W IIRC. But I think this is about the lower you can do without
tweaking the OS.

> > Apart from that I read somewhere that the beaglebones have terrible EM
> > characteristics. But I can't find my source so take it with a grain of
> > salt :-)

Yes. The BBB is badly designed in this regard... The RPI is better there.

> I must say, there are more of these things available in almost too wide 
> a variety.. You could spend days going through all the datasheets and 
> websites - I suspect that they ALL have about the same power consumption 
> for a given amount of processing horsepower - same feature size on the 
> die, after all - so it's more about peripherals and ease of use

There are way too many, IMHO. And a lot of them are not usefull for
a lot of stuff or have very bad support. The Odroid are a prime example
of this. There is a "community" around them, yet getting them to do
anything usefull is a major pain. There is a handfull of companies
I know of, who do provide good support and those are the ones I am
usually sticking to (unless I have special needs).

> And, it's more likely that idiosyncracies in the distros have been 
> identified and it's more likely that the software will run on them after 
> its built.

It's actually better to go with a company who is invested in giving
you a working board than using something popular. Especially one that
cares to push all its patches upstream.

Beside the mentioned Toradex, and Aries Embedded, there is also Olimex
which is known for it's wide variety of boards with good support.
Depending on your exact requirements, I would probably go for one of
the i.mx233 boards (the imx233 nano is quite neat) or A10 or A33 board.
Especially the i.mx233 is nice as it has an on-chip Li-poly charger/controller.
All you need to do is to supply it with 5V and it does the rest.

A note of warning: a lot of the boards from Olimex have not enough ground
pins for the high speed singals they provide. If you are transfering data
with high-speed (several 10MHz) over the headerpin connectors, you will need
to add some additional ground connections.

What are the exact requirements you have? How much computational power
do you need? How do you interface the sensors? How many boards will
you need? Is it out of question to build your own processor board using
one of the ARM9's in QFP? What is your budget?

The reason why I'm asking the last two questions is, it is often more efficient
to do your own CPU board if you have to design a PCB anyways for the sensors,
need more than 10-20 boards and you can live with one of the "small" ARM9's
that come in QFP packages (like the i.mx233 or AM1705).

Attila Kinali

-- 
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All 
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no 
use without that foundation.
 -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[jimlux]

On 12/2/16 5:31 AM, folkert wrote:

If you really need Linux and it needs to be small and low cost and low
power, then look at the "Pi Zero".  It is a very small Pi that sells for
only $5.   It has video but just don't plug in the cable.



The Pizero and Pi A are about the same power: 400 mW with Wifi off, idle;


I'm measuring 0.350A with max cpu usage on all cores and the following
settings:


@ 5V, right, so 1.75W going full out.  That's a useful number to know.



power off the display
/opt/vc/bin/tvservice -o

switch off the ethernet blinkenlights
llctl f0 l0 d0


Apart from that I read somewhere that the beaglebones have terrible EM
characteristics. But I can't find my source so take it with a grain of
salt :-)

 Could be. In this application, it will be in a box, periodically 
grinding numbers (ADC samples) supplied to it then storing them, so 
EMI/EMC isn't a huge issue.


I must say, there are more of these things available in almost too wide 
a variety.. You could spend days going through all the datasheets and 
websites - I suspect that they ALL have about the same power consumption 
for a given amount of processing horsepower - same feature size on the 
die, after all - so it's more about peripherals and ease of use


I started looking at RPi and BBB because there are a LOT of them out 
there, they're cheap, so there's lots of practical experience (not 
always useful -  one needs to spend days going through blogs, forums, 
websites)


And, it's more likely that idiosyncracies in the distros have been 
identified and it's more likely that the software will run on them after 
its built.





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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[folkert]

> >If you really need Linux and it needs to be small and low cost and low
> >power, then look at the "Pi Zero".  It is a very small Pi that sells for
> >only $5.   It has video but just don't plug in the cable.
> >
> 
> The Pizero and Pi A are about the same power: 400 mW with Wifi off, idle;

I'm measuring 0.350A with max cpu usage on all cores and the following
settings:

power off the display
/opt/vc/bin/tvservice -o

switch off the ethernet blinkenlights
llctl f0 l0 d0


Apart from that I read somewhere that the beaglebones have terrible EM
characteristics. But I can't find my source so take it with a grain of
salt :-)


Folkert van Heusden

-- 
--
Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com
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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[jimlux]

On 11/30/16 11:08 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 12:42 PM, jimlux  wrote:


I'm looking for a small linux single board - similar to RPi or Beaglebone
Black, but don't need the HDMI, or video stuff.
Preferably without weird connectors, and available for wide temperature
ranges (it's for a data logger/collector in the field)



Does it really need to run Linux?   If you can give up Linux then there are
MANY ARM Cortex M SBCs that are tiny and run on literally micro amps and
sell for under $5.   You can run a very small-footprint RTOS on the Cortex
M that can do "hard" real-time as well is some multitasking and even
network.



Yes.. Theres a bunch of software to run on it that already exists, and 
needs Linux.




If you really need Linux and it needs to be small and low cost and low
power, then look at the "Pi Zero".  It is a very small Pi that sells for
only $5.   It has video but just don't plug in the cable.



The Pizero and Pi A are about the same power: 400 mW with Wifi off, idle;


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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[Chris Albertson]

Yes, that was exactly my point, There are two kinds of ARM, the A and the
M.   "A" is the kind used in you smart phone and the Raspberry Pi and BBB
and these suck up a few watts of power.  The M type is made for low power
and could run off a few AA batteries and the battery shelf life would
expire before the battery was used up.   A simple data logger could keep
the CPU in sleep mode most of the time and then it uses literally a few
micro amps.

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Attila Kinali  wrote:

> On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 16:57:10 -0800
> jimlux  wrote:
>
> > Power consumption - it's going to be battery powered
> > I've been looking through the literature, and you can power down some of
> > the chips on most of these things.
>
> If power consumption is an issue for you, then I would advise against
> going for a Linux board, unless you either find a board that is
> specifically
> designed for that purpose (and has the software support) or you have
> a few months time to iron out the problems in the Linux kernel to
> get the system to go into sleep.
>
> It's far easier to use something line Nuttx or FreeRTOS on an
> Cortex-M3 or arm9 and get that to use little power than it is
> to get an full fledged Linux system to behave.
> (Stay away from Zephyr, it's a trap)
>
> Attila Kinali
>
> --
> Malek's Law:
> Any simple idea will be worded in the most complicated way.
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>



-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[Chris Albertson]

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 12:42 PM, jimlux  wrote:

> I'm looking for a small linux single board - similar to RPi or Beaglebone
> Black, but don't need the HDMI, or video stuff.
> Preferably without weird connectors, and available for wide temperature
> ranges (it's for a data logger/collector in the field)
>

Does it really need to run Linux?   If you can give up Linux then there are
MANY ARM Cortex M SBCs that are tiny and run on literally micro amps and
sell for under $5.   You can run a very small-footprint RTOS on the Cortex
M that can do "hard" real-time as well is some multitasking and even
network.

If you really need Linux and it needs to be small and low cost and low
power, then look at the "Pi Zero".  It is a very small Pi that sells for
only $5.   It has video but just don't plug in the cable.

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[Scott Stobbe]

Having a full blown os is nice when all the processor is responsible for is
house keeping and storage. You also get plenty of RAM for buffering prior
to writing to persistent storage, like an SD card. That said I have found
SD cards to be fusy, at least the microchip FAT libraries. And write cycle
times are random sometimes being 0.5 seconds, which means you need to be
able to allocate memory the equivalent of a few seconds worth of data for
buffering (not an issue on linux systems).

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 10:05 PM, Graham / KE9H 
wrote:

> If you are going to go battery powered, I would also recommend staying away
> from Linux, go with something like a 32 bit PIC32MX or PIC32MZ.  Full
> Ethernet stack, RTOS if you need it, can do deep sleep down into the
> microamp range when not active.
>
> --- Graham.
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 8:35 PM, Gary Chatters <
> gcarlis...@garychatters.com>
> wrote:
>
> > There do seem to be a lot of small SBCs out there.  I have used boards
> from
> > Technologic Systems, http://www.embeddedarm.com
> > and EMAC, Inc, http://www.emacinc.com
> >
> > They have numerous models for you to look though.  Some various features:
> > - SBC or SoM/CoM on baseboard
> > - Various form factors including PC/104
> > - Usually with RS-232, USB, GPIO, Ethernet.
> > - Many without video.
> > - ARM processor
> > - Many with industrial temperature range
> > - Linux and development environment provided (may not be latest)
> > - Lower power then BBB.  One model runs at 0.5 watts.  Many around 1.
> >
> > Prices generally 2 or 3 x BBB prices.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > On 11/30/2016 03:42 PM, jimlux wrote:
> >
> >> I'm looking for a small linux single board - similar to RPi or
> >> Beaglebone Black, but don't need the HDMI, or video stuff.
> >> Preferably without weird connectors, and available for wide temperature
> >> ranges (it's for a data logger/collector in the field)
> >>
> >> What's out there?
> >>
> >> There's BBB in industrial flavor (-40 to +85C ) for $60-70
> >>
> >
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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[Graham / KE9H]

If you are going to go battery powered, I would also recommend staying away
from Linux, go with something like a 32 bit PIC32MX or PIC32MZ.  Full
Ethernet stack, RTOS if you need it, can do deep sleep down into the
microamp range when not active.

--- Graham.

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 8:35 PM, Gary Chatters 
wrote:

> There do seem to be a lot of small SBCs out there.  I have used boards from
> Technologic Systems, http://www.embeddedarm.com
> and EMAC, Inc, http://www.emacinc.com
>
> They have numerous models for you to look though.  Some various features:
> - SBC or SoM/CoM on baseboard
> - Various form factors including PC/104
> - Usually with RS-232, USB, GPIO, Ethernet.
> - Many without video.
> - ARM processor
> - Many with industrial temperature range
> - Linux and development environment provided (may not be latest)
> - Lower power then BBB.  One model runs at 0.5 watts.  Many around 1.
>
> Prices generally 2 or 3 x BBB prices.
>
> Gary
>
> On 11/30/2016 03:42 PM, jimlux wrote:
>
>> I'm looking for a small linux single board - similar to RPi or
>> Beaglebone Black, but don't need the HDMI, or video stuff.
>> Preferably without weird connectors, and available for wide temperature
>> ranges (it's for a data logger/collector in the field)
>>
>> What's out there?
>>
>> There's BBB in industrial flavor (-40 to +85C ) for $60-70
>>
>
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>
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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[Gary Chatters]

There do seem to be a lot of small SBCs out there.  I have used boards from
Technologic Systems, http://www.embeddedarm.com
and EMAC, Inc, http://www.emacinc.com

They have numerous models for you to look though.  Some various features:
- SBC or SoM/CoM on baseboard
- Various form factors including PC/104
- Usually with RS-232, USB, GPIO, Ethernet.
- Many without video.
- ARM processor
- Many with industrial temperature range
- Linux and development environment provided (may not be latest)
- Lower power then BBB.  One model runs at 0.5 watts.  Many around 1.

Prices generally 2 or 3 x BBB prices.

Gary
On 11/30/2016 03:42 PM, jimlux wrote:

I'm looking for a small linux single board - similar to RPi or
Beaglebone Black, but don't need the HDMI, or video stuff.
Preferably without weird connectors, and available for wide temperature
ranges (it's for a data logger/collector in the field)

What's out there?

There's BBB in industrial flavor (-40 to +85C ) for $60-70


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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[Attila Kinali]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 16:57:10 -0800
jimlux  wrote:

> Power consumption - it's going to be battery powered
> I've been looking through the literature, and you can power down some of 
> the chips on most of these things.

If power consumption is an issue for you, then I would advise against
going for a Linux board, unless you either find a board that is specifically
designed for that purpose (and has the software support) or you have
a few months time to iron out the problems in the Linux kernel to 
get the system to go into sleep.

It's far easier to use something line Nuttx or FreeRTOS on an
Cortex-M3 or arm9 and get that to use little power than it is
to get an full fledged Linux system to behave.
(Stay away from Zephyr, it's a trap)

Attila Kinali

-- 
Malek's Law:
Any simple idea will be worded in the most complicated way.
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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[jimlux]

On 11/30/16 3:26 PM, Hal Murray wrote:


jim...@earthlink.net said:

I'm looking for a small linux single board - similar to RPi or  Beaglebone
Black, but don't need the HDMI, or video stuff.


Don't limit your search to things that doen't have what you don't need.  It
may be cheaper to get a high volume part and ignore the sections you don't
need.


Power consumption - it's going to be battery powered
I've been looking through the literature, and you can power down some of 
the chips on most of these things.



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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[Bob Camp]

Hi

There are a nearly infinite number of ARM based modules and boards. They all 
are very much 
a “same / same” sort of thing. They are far more alike than they are different. 
That’s not to say 
that they are interchangeable, far from it. The issue for low volume is often 
more the toolchain 
(and it’s cost(s)) rather than the hardware.

Bob


> On Nov 30, 2016, at 7:40 PM, Attila Kinali  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 12:42:51 -0800
> jimlux  wrote:
> 
>> I'm looking for a small linux single board - similar to RPi or 
>> Beaglebone Black, but don't need the HDMI, or video stuff.
>> Preferably without weird connectors, and available for wide temperature 
>> ranges (it's for a data logger/collector in the field)
>> 
>> What's out there?
> 
> If you can acommodate SO-DIMM connectors, then I probably would go for
> modules by Toradex[1] or aries[2]. I know that both companies do a good
> job of getting complete support for their SoCs and the modules upstream
> (very important if you want it to just work) and I also know people I can
> kick if something doesn't. A friend also pointed me at [3], but I don't
> know how good they are.
> 
> Generally speaking, if you google for "ARM SOM" you will get lots of
> results, some of them specially made for industrial environments.
> The connectors vary a lot and are too often high density connectors.
> Though usually not going below 1mm pitch. SO-DIMM has kind of become
> a standard formfactor for a lot of those modules (but all with
> different pin-outs!). Outside the ARM sphere, there is very little else.
> MIPS processors are mostly networking and video coding SoC's, so probably
> overpowered for your application. There are the Intel based Minnowboards,
> but they are bascially full fledged PCs with low power consumption.
> (I have a Minnow Turbot here, I really like it, tiny as it is, but it's
> a heavy handed beast compared to the ARM boards)
> 
> HTH
> 
>   Attila Kinali
> 
> [1] https://www.toradex.com/
> [2] http://www.aries-embedded.de/
> [3] 
> http://www.variscite.com/products/system-on-module-som/cortex-a8/var-som-am33-cpu-ti-am335x-am3354-am3352
> 
> -- 
> Malek's Law:
>Any simple idea will be worded in the most complicated way.
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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[Attila Kinali]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 12:42:51 -0800
jimlux  wrote:

> I'm looking for a small linux single board - similar to RPi or 
> Beaglebone Black, but don't need the HDMI, or video stuff.
> Preferably without weird connectors, and available for wide temperature 
> ranges (it's for a data logger/collector in the field)
> 
> What's out there?

If you can acommodate SO-DIMM connectors, then I probably would go for
modules by Toradex[1] or aries[2]. I know that both companies do a good
job of getting complete support for their SoCs and the modules upstream
(very important if you want it to just work) and I also know people I can
kick if something doesn't. A friend also pointed me at [3], but I don't
know how good they are.

Generally speaking, if you google for "ARM SOM" you will get lots of
results, some of them specially made for industrial environments.
The connectors vary a lot and are too often high density connectors.
Though usually not going below 1mm pitch. SO-DIMM has kind of become
a standard formfactor for a lot of those modules (but all with
different pin-outs!). Outside the ARM sphere, there is very little else.
MIPS processors are mostly networking and video coding SoC's, so probably
overpowered for your application. There are the Intel based Minnowboards,
but they are bascially full fledged PCs with low power consumption.
(I have a Minnow Turbot here, I really like it, tiny as it is, but it's
a heavy handed beast compared to the ARM boards)

HTH

Attila Kinali

[1] https://www.toradex.com/
[2] http://www.aries-embedded.de/
[3] 
http://www.variscite.com/products/system-on-module-som/cortex-a8/var-som-am33-cpu-ti-am335x-am3354-am3352

-- 
Malek's Law:
Any simple idea will be worded in the most complicated way.
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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[bownes]

Fits very nicely into a 5370 in fact. :)

> On Nov 30, 2016, at 17:12, Graham / KE9H  wrote:
> 
> The BeagleBone Green is a BeagleBone Black with the HDMI and video chip
> removed.
> 
> Mouser Part number *Mouser Part #: *713-102010027, $39, In stock.
> 
> 
> Makes a great little headless server.
> 
> --- Graham
> 
> ==
> 
>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Clint Jay  wrote:
>> 
>> Raspberry Pi compute module? Maybe even a Pi Zero?
>> 
>>> On 30 Nov 2016 21:47, "Adrian Godwin"  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The tiny g3 routers are worth looking at. They have WiFi, Ethernet and
>> USB,
>>> cost very little and will usually run wrt54g Linux. Can be rather short
>> on
>>> memory though.
>>> 
 On 30 Nov 2016 8:43 p.m., "jimlux"  wrote:
 
 I'm looking for a small linux single board - similar to RPi or
>> Beaglebone
 Black, but don't need the HDMI, or video stuff.
 Preferably without weird connectors, and available for wide temperature
 ranges (it's for a data logger/collector in the field)
 
 What's out there?
 
 There's BBB in industrial flavor (-40 to +85C ) for $60-70
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
 ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[Hal Murray]

jim...@earthlink.net said:
> I'm looking for a small linux single board - similar to RPi or  Beaglebone
> Black, but don't need the HDMI, or video stuff. 

Don't limit your search to things that doen't have what you don't need.  It 
may be cheaper to get a high volume part and ignore the sections you don't 
need.

I learned that ages ago when a TI rep suggested a codec chip for an A/D.  We 
just ignored half the chip.  It did what we needed at a lower cost that any 
of the alternatives we could find.


-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[Graham / KE9H]

The BeagleBone Green is a BeagleBone Black with the HDMI and video chip
removed.

Mouser Part number *Mouser Part #: *713-102010027, $39, In stock.


Makes a great little headless server.

--- Graham

==

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Clint Jay  wrote:

> Raspberry Pi compute module? Maybe even a Pi Zero?
>
> On 30 Nov 2016 21:47, "Adrian Godwin"  wrote:
>
> > The tiny g3 routers are worth looking at. They have WiFi, Ethernet and
> USB,
> > cost very little and will usually run wrt54g Linux. Can be rather short
> on
> > memory though.
> >
> > On 30 Nov 2016 8:43 p.m., "jimlux"  wrote:
> >
> > > I'm looking for a small linux single board - similar to RPi or
> Beaglebone
> > > Black, but don't need the HDMI, or video stuff.
> > > Preferably without weird connectors, and available for wide temperature
> > > ranges (it's for a data logger/collector in the field)
> > >
> > > What's out there?
> > >
> > > There's BBB in industrial flavor (-40 to +85C ) for $60-70
> > > ___
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> > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
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> > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >
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> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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> >
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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[Clint Jay]

Raspberry Pi compute module? Maybe even a Pi Zero?

On 30 Nov 2016 21:47, "Adrian Godwin"  wrote:

> The tiny g3 routers are worth looking at. They have WiFi, Ethernet and USB,
> cost very little and will usually run wrt54g Linux. Can be rather short on
> memory though.
>
> On 30 Nov 2016 8:43 p.m., "jimlux"  wrote:
>
> > I'm looking for a small linux single board - similar to RPi or Beaglebone
> > Black, but don't need the HDMI, or video stuff.
> > Preferably without weird connectors, and available for wide temperature
> > ranges (it's for a data logger/collector in the field)
> >
> > What's out there?
> >
> > There's BBB in industrial flavor (-40 to +85C ) for $60-70
> > ___
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> >
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Re: [time-nuts] RPi/ beagle bone-like computer without video

[Adrian Godwin]

The tiny g3 routers are worth looking at. They have WiFi, Ethernet and USB,
cost very little and will usually run wrt54g Linux. Can be rather short on
memory though.

On 30 Nov 2016 8:43 p.m., "jimlux"  wrote:

> I'm looking for a small linux single board - similar to RPi or Beaglebone
> Black, but don't need the HDMI, or video stuff.
> Preferably without weird connectors, and available for wide temperature
> ranges (it's for a data logger/collector in the field)
>
> What's out there?
>
> There's BBB in industrial flavor (-40 to +85C ) for $60-70
> ___
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>
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