Re: [TLS] PR#634: Registry for TLS protocol version ID

[Joseph Salowey]

It doesn't look like we have enough consensus to adopt this proposal.

Thanks,

J

On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Eric Rescorla  wrote:

> Chairs: Can you advise on the disposition of this?
>
> -Ekr
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Martin Thomson 
> wrote:
>
>> On 13 October 2016 at 12:07, Eric Rescorla  wrote:
>> > I assume you would prefer hex, i.e., 0x0303?
>>
>> Yeah, that would be nice: it's recognizably the same as the old one that
>> way.
>>
>
>
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Re: [TLS] PR#634: Registry for TLS protocol version ID

[Eric Rescorla]

Chairs: Can you advise on the disposition of this?

-Ekr


On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Martin Thomson 
wrote:

> On 13 October 2016 at 12:07, Eric Rescorla  wrote:
> > I assume you would prefer hex, i.e., 0x0303?
>
> Yeah, that would be nice: it's recognizably the same as the old one that
> way.
>
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Re: [TLS] PR#634: Registry for TLS protocol version ID

[Martin Thomson]

On 13 October 2016 at 12:07, Eric Rescorla  wrote:
> I assume you would prefer hex, i.e., 0x0303?

Yeah, that would be nice: it's recognizably the same as the old one that way.

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Re: [TLS] PR#634: Registry for TLS protocol version ID

[Eric Rescorla]

On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 5:55 PM, Martin Thomson 
wrote:

> On 13 October 2016 at 10:00, Eric Rescorla  wrote:
> > I would prefer we not merge this PR.
>
> I concur, though I would prefer if we stopped using the strange { 3, 3
> } notation for versions, it's not useful and it implies a significance
> to the separation that just doesn't exist*.
>

I assume you would prefer hex, i.e., 0x0303?


[*] One caveat: you will likely be very sad if you try to change that
> first octet in a ClientHello.
>

Indeed.

-Ekr
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Re: [TLS] PR#634: Registry for TLS protocol version ID

[Martin Thomson]

On 13 October 2016 at 11:59, Dave Garrett  wrote:
> One added feature we get with this registry definition is a range of 
> codepoints for private experimental use. Formal definition might not be 
> strictly needed here, though it shouldn't hurt.

The same can be achieved by saying "future versions of TLS will not
use version numbers higher than 0x3fff; values with the top bit set
are reserved for legacy versions of DTLS; values with the two bits set
to 01 are reserved for experimentation".  We don't need IANA to look
after that.

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Re: [TLS] PR#634: Registry for TLS protocol version ID

[Dave Garrett]

On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 07:00:34 pm Eric Rescorla wrote:
> This PR involves two changes:
> 
> 1. Attaching the term "ID" to version and defining new enum code points.
> 2. Creating a registry
> 
> The first of these seems obfuscatory and unhelpful. The second just seems
> unnecessary. Other specifications other than new versions of TLS won't be
> adding new code points, so I don't see how a registry helps.
> 
> I would prefer we not merge this PR.

One added feature we get with this registry definition is a range of codepoints 
for private experimental use. Formal definition might not be strictly needed 
here, though it shouldn't hurt.

My reasoning for the explicit use of "ID" is that it would be more clear to use 
the term "version ID" to refer to the arbitrary codepoints (e.g. 0x0304) and 
simply "version number" to refer to the more descriptive "TLS 1.3". Both do end 
up on-the-wire; the former in the version fields and the later in context 
strings, which is one of the reasons why I think being more explicit here may 
be a good idea.

The registry was first suggested by Daniel Kahn Gillmor in prior mailing list 
discussion around rebranding to TLS 2.0 (which we're treating as a separate 
issue, at the moment). I think it makes sense and I would prefer it be merged, 
but I don't ascribe very high importance here.


Dave

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Re: [TLS] PR#634: Registry for TLS protocol version ID

[Martin Thomson]

On 13 October 2016 at 10:00, Eric Rescorla  wrote:
> I would prefer we not merge this PR.

I concur, though I would prefer if we stopped using the strange { 3, 3
} notation for versions, it's not useful and it implies a significance
to the separation that just doesn't exist*.

[*] One caveat: you will likely be very sad if you try to change that
first octet in a ClientHello.

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Re: [TLS] PR#634: Registry for TLS protocol version ID

[Eric Rescorla]

On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 3:26 PM, Sean Turner  wrote:

> Al,
>
> David Garrett has generated PR#634 (https://github.com/tlswg/
> tls13-spec/pull/634) to "explicitly [rename] the protocol version fields
> as IDs and defines a registry for all values, as they're really just
> arbitrary codepoints at this point.”  Note that there are no bits on the
> wire changes as result of this PR, but it does establish more process; if
> we’re publishing a new TLS version there’s already be lots of process this
> won’t be the straw that breaks the camel’s back.  We’d like to get a sense
> as to whether this PR should be merged - please provide any comments on
> merging this PR by Friday (10/14).
>
>
This PR involves two changes:

1. Attaching the term "ID" to version and defining new enum code points.
2. Creating a registry

The first of these seems obfuscatory and unhelpful. The second just seems
unnecessary. Other specifications other than new versions of TLS won't be
adding new code points, so I don't see how a registry helps.

I would prefer we not merge this PR.

-Ekr

J
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Re: [TLS] PR#634: Registry for TLS protocol version ID

[Salz, Rich]

> David Garrett has generated PR#634 (https://github.com/tlswg/tls13-
> spec/pull/634)

+1


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