Re: [Tn5250j-general] [Fwd: Fw: TN5250J License]
Hello Pete, As you explain LGPL, it seems to me that this is the way to go! Pete Helgren [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14/12/2005 22:40 Please respond to tn5250j-general@lists.sourceforge.net To tn5250j-general@lists.sourceforge.net cc Subject Re: [Tn5250j-general] [Fwd: Fw: TN5250J License] Wim (and all). Sorry not to weigh in until now. I have been very, very busy. Hoping things will slow down a bit over the next 2 or three weeks so I can do more on the tn5250j stuff. I am not a licensing expert but as I understand the LGPL, a company can integrate the java classes/jars (library is what the LGPL language says) into their application and can charge for the the application as long as they don't charge for whatever they use from tn5250j. It is a fine line in my opinion but they still need to indicate in their copyrights that some of the application is dependent upon tn5250j and licensed under LGPL (if we go that way). So they can use the tn5250j as part of their solution. They cannot use any source from the project in their own code or build a derived application from tn5250j and charge for it. They can only use complete components that are identifiable as such from tn5250j (like the protocolBean). What I don't know is that if they decide to enhance the tn5250j code are they obligated to contribute that code back to the project? I *think* they are but I am not sure. Where things get fuzzy is how to determine what component is being used. No doubt some of the tn5250j code has found it's way into a commercial product or two already. Not everybody plays by the rules. But I think there is little risk in this approach. In any case it speaks highly of what you guys have accomplished! Pete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, as I understood it, the people from Help/Systems were looking for a 5250 protocol to embed into their product. Of course they will be charging their customers for this. As I interpret this, it's not a question of not OSS'ing the project anymore, but establishing a licensing policy on the project that allows them to integrate it. Kenneth Pouncey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14/12/2005 06:47 Please respond to tn5250j-general@lists.sourceforge.net To tn5250j-general@lists.sourceforge.net, [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc Subject Re: [Tn5250j-general] [Fwd: Fw: TN5250J License] Matt If you are on the list now here was a personal e-mail sent to me from one of the people. I ony copied pasted a part of the e-mail as there was some personal info and do not want to get him/her in trouble. Could you maybe give some answers to the questions. I want to open this conversation up and let everyone decide. Sorry to put you in this but all the others that I have done this too has backed down answering the questions in a public format. You guys have been the most up front and honest so far which is why I have even considered it. Regards Kenneth Email below: --- Kenneth - - Wow!! No kidding!! Help/Systems!! MOST INTERESTING (yes I am shouting). Since I am only a user, not a developer on this project, my 2 cents is from a different perspective. My concerns are the life of the product. As you know and I have said repeatedly - tn5250j rocks! Its great! I want it to survive as an oss product. I would understand if the developers needed to generate a cash flow, as sad as that would make me. Do you know what Help/Systems is up to? Are they planning on putting out the 5250 emulation and trying to charge for it? Do they want to use it as an oss product? --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637alloc_id=16865op=click ___ Tn5250j-general mailing list Tn5250j-general@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tn5250j-general
Re: [Tn5250j-general] [Fwd: Fw: TN5250J License]
I would agree with Pete here. The only thing I would like to have clarified is if mods and bug fixes, done but hep/systems, would have to be give back to project. Even if not it would be nice to have the fixes back and to be able to say a commercial out fit officially contributing to the project. :) Best regards, +--+ | Richard Houston .^. | | R.L.H. Consulting /V\ | | E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]/( )\ | | WWW www.rlhc.net ^^-^^| +--+ Hello Pete, As you explain LGPL, it seems to me that this is the way to go! Pete Helgren [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14/12/2005 22:40 Please respond to tn5250j-general@lists.sourceforge.net To tn5250j-general@lists.sourceforge.net cc Subject Re: [Tn5250j-general] [Fwd: Fw: TN5250J License] Wim (and all). Sorry not to weigh in until now. I have been very, very busy. Hoping things will slow down a bit over the next 2 or three weeks so I can do more on the tn5250j stuff. I am not a licensing expert but as I understand the LGPL, a company can integrate the java classes/jars (library is what the LGPL language says) into their application and can charge for the the application as long as they don't charge for whatever they use from tn5250j. It is a fine line in my opinion but they still need to indicate in their copyrights that some of the application is dependent upon tn5250j and licensed under LGPL (if we go that way). So they can use the tn5250j as part of their solution. They cannot use any source from the project in their own code or build a derived application from tn5250j and charge for it. They can only use complete components that are identifiable as such from tn5250j (like the protocolBean). What I don't know is that if they decide to enhance the tn5250j code are they obligated to contribute that code back to the project? I *think* they are but I am not sure. Where things get fuzzy is how to determine what component is being used. No doubt some of the tn5250j code has found it's way into a commercial product or two already. Not everybody plays by the rules. But I think there is little risk in this approach. In any case it speaks highly of what you guys have accomplished! Pete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, as I understood it, the people from Help/Systems were looking for a 5250 protocol to embed into their product. Of course they will be charging their customers for this. As I interpret this, it's not a question of not OSS'ing the project anymore, but establishing a licensing policy on the project that allows them to integrate it. Kenneth Pouncey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14/12/2005 06:47 Please respond to tn5250j-general@lists.sourceforge.net To tn5250j-general@lists.sourceforge.net, [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc Subject Re: [Tn5250j-general] [Fwd: Fw: TN5250J License] Matt If you are on the list now here was a personal e-mail sent to me from one of the people. I ony copied pasted a part of the e-mail as there was some personal info and do not want to get him/her in trouble. Could you maybe give some answers to the questions. I want to open this conversation up and let everyone decide. Sorry to put you in this but all the others that I have done this too has backed down answering the questions in a public format. You guys have been the most up front and honest so far which is why I have even considered it. Regards Kenneth Email below: --- Kenneth - - Wow!! No kidding!! Help/Systems!! MOST INTERESTING (yes I am shouting). Since I am only a user, not a developer on this project, my 2 cents is from a different perspective. My concerns are the life of the product. As you know and I have said repeatedly - tn5250j rocks! Its great! I want it to survive as an oss product. I would understand if the developers needed to generate a cash flow, as sad as that would make me. Do you know what Help/Systems is up to? Are they planning on putting out the 5250 emulation and trying to charge for it? Do they want to use it as an oss product? --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637alloc_id=16865op=click ___ Tn5250j-general mailing list Tn5250j-general@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tn5250j-general --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
Re: [Tn5250j-general] [Fwd: Fw: TN5250J License]
Wim (and all).
Sorry not to weigh in until now. I have been very, very busy. Hoping
things will slow down a bit over the next 2 or three weeks so I can do
more on the tn5250j stuff.
I am not a licensing expert but as I understand the LGPL, a company can
integrate the java classes/jars (library is what the LGPL language
says) into their application and can charge for the the application as
long as they don't "charge" for whatever they use from tn5250j. It is
a fine line in my opinion but they still need to indicate in their
copyrights that some of the application is dependent upon tn5250j and
licensed under LGPL (if we go that way). So they can use the tn5250j
as part of their solution. They cannot use any source from the project
in their own code or build a derived application from tn5250j and
charge for it. They can only use complete "components" that are
identifiable as such from tn5250j (like the protocolBean).
What I don't know is that if they decide to enhance the tn5250j code
are they obligated to contribute that code back to the project? I
*think* they are but I am not sure. Where things get "fuzzy" is how to
determine what "component" is being used.
No doubt some of the tn5250j code has found it's way into a commercial
product or two already. Not everybody plays by the rules. But I think
there is little risk in this approach.
In any case it speaks highly of what you guys have accomplished!
Pete
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello all,
as I understood it, the people from
Help/Systems were looking for a 5250 protocol to embed into their
product.
Of course they will be charging their customers for this. As I
interpret
this, it's not a question of not OSS'ing the project anymore, but
establishing
a licensing policy on the project that allows them to integrate it.
Kenneth
Pouncey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
14/12/2005 06:47
Please
respond to
tn5250j-general@lists.sourceforge.net
To
tn5250j-general@lists.sourceforge.net,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc
Subject
Re:
[Tn5250j-general] [Fwd:
Fw: TN5250J License]
Matt
If you are on the list now here was a personal e-mail sent to me from
one
of the people. I ony copied pasted a part of the e-mail as there
was some personal info and do not want to get him/her in trouble.
Could you maybe give some answers to the questions.
I want to open this conversation up and let everyone decide.
Sorry to put you in this but all the others that I have done this too
has
backed down answering the questions in a public format. You guys
have been the most up front and honest so far which is why I have even
considered it.
Regards
Kenneth
Email below:
---
Kenneth - -
Wow!! No kidding!! Help/Systems!! MOST INTERESTING (yes
I am
shouting).
Since I am only a user, not a developer on this project, my 2 cents is
from a different perspective. My concerns are the life of the product.
As you know and I have said repeatedly - tn5250j rocks! Its great!
I want it to survive as an oss product. I would understand if the
developers needed to generate a cash flow, as sad as that would make me.
Do you know what Help/Systems is up to? Are they planning on putting
out the 5250 emulation and trying to charge for it? Do they want
to use
it as an oss product?
---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log
files
for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that
makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD
SPLUNK!
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637alloc_id=16865op=click
___
Tn5250j-general mailing list
Tn5250j-general@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tn5250j-general
Re: [Tn5250j-general] [Fwd: Fw: TN5250J License]
Kenneth, I have no problem answering your questions. Honesty is a core belief at Help/Systems. And I understand the concerns of your user base. We've used the TN5250J product and find it is a very nice tool. It is well written and very stable. In fact, many of my developers (me included) use it rather than IBM's Client Access. As you are aware, Help/Systems' products focus on operations automation for the iSeries and attached servers (a.k.a. systems management) from an iSeries perspective. Our customers generally use an iSeries system to run their business. We would like to include TN5250J with our Java GUIs as an ease of use feature for our customers. Providing our customers with TN5250J would give them the ability to start a telnet session to one of their iSeries systems from our GUI without requiring another application to be installed on their PC. We might disable some of the more advanced features that TN5250J supports, just to keep it as simple as possible for our customers. We put a heavy focus on simplicity and ease of use within our products. Does that sufficiently answer the questions? I appreciate your consideration. Regards, Matt Bresnan Software Development Manager Help/Systems, Inc. Kenneth Pouncey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To 12/13/2005 11:47 [EMAIL PROTECTED] PMet, [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc Subject Re: [Tn5250j-general] [Fwd: Fw: TN5250J License] Matt If you are on the list now here was a personal e-mail sent to me from one of the people. I ony copied pasted a part of the e-mail as there was some personal info and do not want to get him/her in trouble. Could you maybe give some answers to the questions. I want to open this conversation up and let everyone decide. Sorry to put you in this but all the others that I have done this too has backed down answering the questions in a public format. You guys have been the most up front and honest so far which is why I have even considered it. Regards Kenneth Email below: --- Kenneth - - Wow!! No kidding!! Help/Systems!! MOST INTERESTING (yes I am shouting). Since I am only a user, not a developer on this project, my 2 cents is from a different perspective. My concerns are the life of the product. As you know and I have said repeatedly - tn5250j rocks! Its great! I want it to survive as an oss product. I would understand if the developers needed to generate a cash flow, as sad as that would make me. Do you know what Help/Systems is up to? Are they planning on putting out the 5250 emulation and trying to charge for it? Do they want to use it as an oss product? --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637alloc_id=16865op=click ___ Tn5250j-general mailing list Tn5250j-general@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tn5250j-general
RE: [Tn5250j-general] [Fwd: Fw: TN5250J License]
Hello all, glad to hear those enhancements are coming into the codebase! Concerning the licensing, though, I'm not an expert myself regarding the differences. As I understand it, GPL means that any derivative or piece of code containing the library, should also be opensource. LGPL lessens this constraint by not implying opensource derivatives or containers, right? So LGPL should be fine to us, but what is the difference with the Apache license? Are there any changes into TN5250j that we have (incorrectly) copyrighted? Patrick Bielen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13/12/2005 08:22 Please respond to tn5250j-general@lists.sourceforge.net To tn5250j-general@lists.sourceforge.net cc Subject RE: [Tn5250j-general] [Fwd: Fw: TN5250J License] Hi Kenneth, The reason for bringing all this up is that after two years a larger company has come back and is ready to discuss this licensing again. Well anyway, congrats dude, isn't something like this you always wanted ? I can image myself the very first days i joined the project as a beta tester, and we streamlined it all in about 6 months to a very productive product. Then the thoughts came up to be accepted by a wider public soon, well dude, that is what is happening now :-) I would like to know your opinions on this. Well, i think as long as we can still continue to work on the codebase, this should be no problem... is it ? At least that is my opinion. The company is Help/Systems, Inc and they want to use the emulator part in there Robot product(s). That's good news if you ask me, don't forget to tell them you name should be listed in one or other way :-) Or maybe even better, they contact the team as a group to work on it... always nice to earn some extra cash for the work we did these last years right ? :-) But before all this works out, we first really have to fix that bugs, cause i had to replace the cvs version with an old one at various production boxes here at stafa, cause of the screen freeze. Well let's see what the other members have to say. Best Regards, Patrick has notified the sender that this message has been received.
