RE: [toaster] Need advice/instructions for toaster update
daniel wrote: Well, because it's so easy to setup why don't you do it from te beginning with the new toaster ? Hi daniel, are you serious? To be honest, I did exactly that with v0.8.8. After the HD-crash I installed v0.8.7 on the same but quite old and rather slow machine. I just put a new HD in and installed the major packages of v.0.8.7 as needed for smtp/pop plus SpamAssassin and ClamAV. I did it on the fly without really knowing WHAT I was doing - just following the instructions of the toaster. When the new machine arrived a few days later I noticed that the toaster had changed to v0.8.8, and since it was a new machine I decided to go with this version. I wrote my own shell scripts to automate most of the installation (to be re-used on my backup system and a test environmet in a VM on my PC). With bash it's quite easy to save/restore the entire vpopmail environment/settings. I even managed to transfer the qmail-queue by using queue_repair.py. But I'm still everything but a Linux or qmail guru. Nevertheless I can't see why I should go this way again when I have a healthy running system and just want to do some updates. Oh, and I haven't got a spare PC/Server either. And having about 50 virtual domains I don't want to have the system down too long, since having complaining customers on the phone is not one of the things I really like. Well, I'll just go through the update on my VM-installation and see how it's going. If I get stuck in a tar pit I'll just revert to the last snapshot and try again. Regards, Guenter
RE: [toaster] Need advice/instructions for toaster update
Rick wrote: ... It's that easy IF you remember that upgrading vpopmail requires upgrading/recompiling things that use vpopmail.so courier and qmail with the chkuser patch come to mind). Also, always read the UPGRADE document for the program you are upgrading. ... Always read the UPGRADE document if it exists. ... Correct. I guess someone with a wack of free time could write an UPGRADE document for the toaster but most of us already do read it for the individual packages we are upgrading. Regards, Rick Rick, thanks a lot for your answer. I'm fully aware that I should ALWAYS read the update instructions of every single package and that not doing so is MY fault. Also I knew that this would be the first answer to my request :-) I guess I could come up with excuses like I've got to read tons of manuals and docs every day and most of the stuff is either of no interest or doesn't come to the point or I don't understand a single word or As for ClamAV: the update instructions are clearly arranged, explizit but short and easy to understand. So, even my usual excuses wouldn't fit here :-) Bill's qmail toaster IS a great piece of work, no doubt about that, and i really thank Bill and all contributers for their work. When our old qmail system (installed by a guy who left the company) crashed because of a total HD failure, I was able to setup a fresh and far better (!) system with Bill's toaster within 2-3 hours. I just wish that upgrading would be that easy as well, or at least explained in more detail. Not as a substitution for reading the before mentioned upgrade instructions of the packages (see, I've learned my lesson). Besides, reading the ChangeLog of the toaster is one thing, understanding the - maybe implicit - connections between addition/changes of patches and other packages is another. Regards, Guenter
RE: [toaster] Need advice/instructions for toaster update
Rick wrote: ... It's that easy IF you remember that upgrading vpopmail requires upgrading/recompiling things that use vpopmail.so courier and qmail with the chkuser patch come to mind). Also, always read the UPGRADE document for the program you are upgrading. ... Always read the UPGRADE document if it exists. ... Correct. I guess someone with a wack of free time could write an UPGRADE document for the toaster but most of us already do read it for the individual packages we are upgrading. Regards, Rick Rick, thanks a lot for your answer. I'm fully aware that I should ALWAYS read the update instructions of every single package and that not doing so is MY fault. Also I knew that this would be the first answer to my request :-) I guess I could come up with excuses like I've got to read tons of manuals and docs every day and most of the stuff is either of no interest or doesn't come to the point or I don't understand a single word or As for ClamAV: the update instructions are clearly arranged, explizit but short and easy to understand. So, even my usual excuses wouldn't fit here :-) Bill's qmail toaster IS a great piece of work, no doubt about that, and i really thank Bill and all contributers for their work. When our old qmail system (installed by a guy who left the company) crashed because of a total HD failure, I was able to setup a fresh and far better (!) system with Bill's toaster within 2-3 hours. I just wish that upgrading would be that easy as well, or at least explained in more detail. Not as a substitution for reading the before mentioned upgrade instructions of the packages (see, I've learned my lesson). Besides, reading the ChangeLog of the toaster is one thing, understanding the - maybe implicit - connections between addition/changes of patches and other packages is another. Regards, Guenter Well, because it's so easy to setup why don't you do it from te beginning with the new toaster ?
[toaster] Need advice/instructions for toaster update
Hi All, I'm still running our system as set up with toaster 0.8.8 (without TMDA). Since I didn't want to run the old SpamAssassin and ClamAV any longer I updated to the current versions. Now I really would like to update the entire system to the current toaster release (v0.9.2). I know, others have asked the very same question here on the list already: What is the best procedure for upgrading the toaster? And yes, I DID read the answer(s): just install those (software/options) that have features you want/need. Well, maybe thats basically it, but I can't believe that it's THAT easy. Aren't there special things to consider when you upgrade a runnning system? I don't mean such simple things like not to create already existing users/groups or symlinks anew, but those which aren't so obvious - at least not for everybody. To make clear what I'm talking about (from my point of view) here some of my updating experiences: Example 1: I did an update from SpamAssassin 3.1.7 to 3.2.0 via CPAN. Since this version requires module Net::DNS I had to install that first. But what about the optional modules like Mail::Domainkeys or Mail::DKIM? Are any of these required for the current toaster? Example 2: After making ClamAV i did a simscanmk -g to update the cdb and got an error that libclamav.so.2 couldn't be found. Since I didn't know if this error was related to (old) simscan I updated simscan as well, but got the same error. A reboot fixed that. Maybe I should have removed /usr/local/lib/*clam* before compiling/making ClamAV and I wouldn't have to reboot the system? Example 3: Making ClamAV from source doesn't overwrite the existing usr/local/etc/clamd.conf. In my case this led to clamd producing errors in the log: ERROR: Can't open/parse the config file /usr/local/etc/clamd.conf ERROR: Parse error at line 39: Option LogClean requires boolean argument. Copying the new clamd.conf manually fixed the problem (Option changed from LogClean to LogClean yes) The conclusion is that updating by following the toaster like with a fresh install just doesn't do it. I would really appreciate if somebody with more knowledge than a bonehead like me would describe the whole updating process in more detail. Regards, Guenter
Re: [toaster] Need advice/instructions for toaster update
Günter Palm wrote: Hi All, I know, others have asked the very same question here on the list already: What is the best procedure for upgrading the toaster? And yes, I DID read the answer(s): just install those (software/options) that have features you want/need. Well, maybe thats basically it, but I can't believe that it's THAT easy. Aren't there special things to consider when you upgrade a runnning system? I don't mean such simple things like not to create already existing users/groups or symlinks anew, but those which aren't so obvious - at least not for everybody. It's that easy IF you remember that upgrading vpopmail requires upgrading/recompiling things that use vpopmail.so (courier and qmail with the chkuser patch come to mind). Also, always read the UPGRADE document for the program you are upgrading. To make clear what I'm talking about (from my point of view) here some of my updating experiences: Example 1: I did an update from SpamAssassin 3.1.7 to 3.2.0 via CPAN. Since this version requires module Net::DNS I had to install that first. But what about the optional modules like Mail::Domainkeys or Mail::DKIM? Are any of these required for the current toaster? Nice to have Mail::DKIM but not needed for SA or the toaster. Example 2: After making ClamAV i did a simscanmk -g to update the cdb and got an error that libclamav.so.2 couldn't be found. Since I didn't know if this error was related to (old) simscan I updated simscan as well, but got the same error. A reboot fixed that. Maybe I should have removed /usr/local/lib/*clam* before compiling/making ClamAV and I wouldn't have to reboot the system? The latest clamav requires you to manually run ldconfig after installing. ldconfig also runs at boot time. Example 3: Making ClamAV from source doesn't overwrite the existing usr/local/etc/clamd.conf. In my case this led to clamd producing errors in the log: ERROR: Can't open/parse the config file /usr/local/etc/clamd.conf ERROR: Parse error at line 39: Option LogClean requires boolean argument. Copying the new clamd.conf manually fixed the problem (Option changed from LogClean to LogClean yes) No, reading the UPGRADE document in the clamav source tree would have alerted you to this before hand. There were major changes to .conf files between 0.88 and 0.90. Always read the UPGRADE document if it exists. The conclusion is that updating by following the toaster like with a fresh install just doesn't do it. Correct. I guess someone with a wack of free time could write an UPGRADE document for the toaster but most of us already do read it for the individual packages we are upgrading. Regards, Rick
