Tomcat Snapshots

2005-10-10 Thread Henri Yandell
Currently the following CVS modules are snapshotted to
http://cvs.apache.org/snapshots/

jakarta-tomcat jakarta-tomcat-4.0 jakarta-tomcat-5
jakarta-tomcat-catalina jakarta-tomcat-jasper
jakarta-tomcat-connectors jakarta-tools jakarta-watchdog
jakarta-servletapi jakarta-servletapi-4 jakarta-servletapi-5
jakarta-watchdog-4.0

I need to identify the svn match to each one of those to continue the
snapshots going. ie)

jakarta-tomcat-tools  =  tomcat/archive/tools/trunk/

Though I imagine something in archive/ isn't a candidate for snapshotting.

Could you let me know which parts of the tomcat svn directory you'd
like me to set snapshotting up for?

(knowing about the snapshots is a pretty recent thing for me, so it's
still somewhat of an afterthought to a migration)

Hen

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Re: CVS-SVN Schedule

2005-10-06 Thread Henri Yandell
On 10/6/05, Remy Maucherat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Remy Maucherat wrote:
  There seems to be a problem with those two.
  http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomcat/container/tc5.5.x/ contains what
  was in jakarta-tomcat-catalina, and jakarta-tomcat-5 appears to be gone.

*grin* Ritually disembowelling myself sah!

 I found jakarta-tomcat-5, which is now at
 http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomcat/build/tc5.5.x/.

Anything I can help with, or is it all good?

Hen

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Re: CVS-SVN Schedule

2005-10-05 Thread Henri Yandell
On 10/2/05, Mark Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Mark Thomas wrote:
  Mladen Turk wrote:
  Can somebody make a firm statement on the timings?
  1. Until when (Date:Hour:Minute) commits could be done
  2. Wen the CVS will be locked for commit (same format)

 This is now set for Wednesday 5th October 2005 at 8pm US Eastern time.
 It should be completed by 11pm US Eastern time.

All done :)

http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomcat/connectors/
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomcat/jasper/
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomcat/container/catalina/
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomcat/container/tc5/

svn co https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomcat/connectors/
jakarta-tomcat-connectors
svn co https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomcat/jasper/ jakarta-tomcat-jasper
svn co https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomcat/container/catalina/
jakarta-tomcat-catalina
svn co https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomcat/container/tc5/ jakarta-tomcat-5

I'll keep checking email and the jira entry on and off tonight in case
there are problems. CVS is locked down, all commits should goto
tomcat-dev, Mark's modification scripts are all successfully run and
read/write is set to anyone in tomcat (in the asf-authorization file
that Remy can edit).

Hen

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Re: CVS-SVN Schedule

2005-10-05 Thread Henri Yandell
Forgot to add that I'll be on #asfinfra on irc.freenode.net as well.

On 10/5/05, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 10/2/05, Mark Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Mark Thomas wrote:
   Mladen Turk wrote:
   Can somebody make a firm statement on the timings?
   1. Until when (Date:Hour:Minute) commits could be done
   2. Wen the CVS will be locked for commit (same format)
 
  This is now set for Wednesday 5th October 2005 at 8pm US Eastern time.
  It should be completed by 11pm US Eastern time.

 All done :)

 http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomcat/connectors/
 http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomcat/jasper/
 http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomcat/container/catalina/
 http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomcat/container/tc5/

 svn co https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomcat/connectors/
 jakarta-tomcat-connectors
 svn co https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomcat/jasper/ jakarta-tomcat-jasper
 svn co https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomcat/container/catalina/
 jakarta-tomcat-catalina
 svn co https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomcat/container/tc5/ jakarta-tomcat-5

 I'll keep checking email and the jira entry on and off tonight in case
 there are problems. CVS is locked down, all commits should goto
 tomcat-dev, Mark's modification scripts are all successfully run and
 read/write is set to anyone in tomcat (in the asf-authorization file
 that Remy can edit).

 Hen


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Re: Subversion migration update

2005-08-27 Thread Henri Yandell
On 8/17/05, Mark Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 2. j-t-service, j-t-site, j-t-tools

Ready to do phase-2?

Where should they go in svn:tomcat/?
Which need tags/branches?

Hen

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Re: Subversion migration update

2005-08-19 Thread Henri Yandell
On 8/17/05, Mark Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Assuming everyone else is happy to move the remaining tomcat modules
 to SVN I would suggest the following stages (Watchdog was stage 1).
 I'll give people at least a week to comment on this proposal and
 assuming no -1's start the phase 2 towards the end of next week.
 
 2. j-t-service, j-t-site
 3. j-servletapi, j-servletapi-4, j-servletapi-5
 4. j-tomcat, j-tomcat-4.0
 5. j-t-catalina, j-t-5, j-t-jasper, j-t-connectors
 
 Any other comments/concerns?

I have jakarta-tools down as a Tomcat CVS module, though looking at it
seems to indicate that it is very dead, not edited for 5 years.

Still, the tags are all TOMCAT_3_1 based, so I figure you guys get to
decide what to do with it:

* Somehow come over to SVN because Tomcat-3's tags will need it to build(?).
* Put into the pot for archiving
(http://www.apache.org/dev/drafts/subversion-migration-plan.txt)

Hen

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Re: Subversion migration update

2005-08-18 Thread Henri Yandell
On 8/18/05, Mark Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Remy Maucherat wrote:
  Mark Thomas wrote:
 
  I am +1 for moving the remaining Tomcat CVS modules to SVN.
 
  I'm +10^-60 or something.
 
 He he he.

Well, the +10 is promising :)

  Right after that, we'll need new repositories to implement the new
  Servlet 2.5 / JSP 2.1.
 
 Not having been around when we have done this before, do we just
 branch the previous version? If so, the simplest thing to do would be
 to create 5.5.x branches for each component and develop 6.0 (assuming
 we call it that) in trunk. I can do this as soon as we are ready.

svn mkdir https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomcat/servletapi/2.5/ (or whatever).

No longer need to have Infra for this kind of thing. It's either
handled by the Tomcat community at large, or for some bits (user
authentication) by Remy as chair.

Hen

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Re: Migration to Subversion

2005-07-29 Thread Henri Yandell
On 7/27/05, Mark Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 All,
 
 Following up on my offer to trial a Subversion migration using Watchdog, I
 started to think that it would be a good idea to have an idea of what we want
 our eventual Subversion layout to look like so we could target the Watchdog
 conversion to that layout and save rework at a later date.

Let me know whenever you want to migrate it into the test/live repo.
I'm doing lots of the SVN migrations nowadays.

 Once we have agreement on this, I'll put in a request for the Watchdog
 migration and also kick off a discussion with infra on how best to go about
 the overall migration. It might be the case that they do a default migration
 for each module and we (I am happy to do it) move the directories around
 afterwards.

Probably a mixture of both. Some of the migration bits will be easy,
but things like splitting the tags and branches automatically into
their own versioned directories would involve a post-migration script
and I or you can do them by hand.

 Finally, my intention with the migration of Watchdog is to see what, if any,
 performance differences there are between CVS and SVN. If there is no major
 performance hit moving to SVN, great, we can migrate the other modules
 whenever we choose. If there is a performance hit, we will have some hard
 evidence on which to base our decision about how to move forward.

We can start whenever you'd like.

Hen

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Re: JavaOne volunteers?

2005-06-22 Thread Henri Yandell
Cool :)

I was useless and failed to give the all-important wiki link to sign up:

http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/ApacheAtJavaOne2005

Ian's signed himself up. Could I get the two of you (Tim/Amy) and
anyone else who wants to volunteer to sign up there?

I've passed your names onto Geir, I figure he'll take things from here.

Hen

On 6/17/05, Amy Roh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Tim Funk wrote:
 
  I can sit around for 2 or 3 hours.
 
 Me too...
 
 Amy
 
 
  -Tim
 
  Henri Yandell wrote:
 
  Unsure if the Tomcat community saw Geir's email asking for volunteers
  at JavaOne.
 
  The ASF have a booth there (donated to us) if we can get people to man
  it etc. Given that it's the flagship product, will any Tomcat people
  be interested in volunteering?
 
  I think the idea is to spend 2 or 3 hours sitting at the desk etc,
  being positive about Tomcat, ASF, Open-Source etc on June 27th-29th.
 
  Wish I could convince my bosses to let me head out there :(
 
 
 
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[jira] Resolved: (INFRA-387) Create tomcat.apache.org vhost (fwd)

2005-06-17 Thread Henri Yandell


tomcat.apache.org now exists :)

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 20:46:36 +0200 (CEST)
From: Joshua Slive (JIRA) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [jira] Resolved: (INFRA-387) Create tomcat.apache.org vhost

  [ http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-387?page=all ]

Joshua Slive resolved INFRA-387:


 Resolution: Fixed

Done.  I also created a unix group tomcat and gave it ownership over the 
relevant directory.  The group membership should be equal to the tomcat-pmc membership.


Create tomcat.apache.org vhost
--

 Key: INFRA-387
 URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-387
 Project: Infrastructure
Type: Task
  Components: HTTP Server
Reporter: Henri Yandell




Tomcat is moving to TLP, so will need a tomcat.apache.org location for their 
website.


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JavaOne volunteers?

2005-06-15 Thread Henri Yandell
Unsure if the Tomcat community saw Geir's email asking for volunteers
at JavaOne.

The ASF have a booth there (donated to us) if we can get people to man
it etc. Given that it's the flagship product, will any Tomcat people
be interested in volunteering?

I think the idea is to spend 2 or 3 hours sitting at the desk etc,
being positive about Tomcat, ASF, Open-Source etc on June 27th-29th.

Wish I could convince my bosses to let me head out there :(

Hen

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Re: New TLP draft

2005-04-08 Thread Henri Yandell
On Apr 8, 2005 11:19 PM, Bill Barker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Costin Manolache [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: tomcat-dev@jakarta.apache.org
 Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 7:23 PM
 Subject: Re: New TLP draft
 
  Remy Maucherat wrote:
 
  Need to identify just how much of the jakarta-* CVS will go with
  Tomcat. Watchdog + ServletAPI modules?
 
 
  That's undecided. Would the old projects would remain at Jakarta, or
  would they be covered by the new project ?
 
 
  Why would they remain in jakarta ? They have the same committer list as
  tomcat, and are closely related.
 
 
 Urm, no.  For example I, personally, have no karma for any of
 jakarta-servletapi* or jakarta-watchdog*.  Also, jakarta-watchdog* are all
 dead projects.  It's all about who wants to watch the corpse ;-).

A better description is that their committer list is a direct subset
of the Tomcat list, and they exist primarily for use by the Tomcat
community.

Mark Thomas (I think, sorry if it wasn't Mark) explained Watchdog as
existing for Tomcat 4 and being dead because Tomcat 5 no longer needed
it (or some such). This seems like a pretty clear ownership by Tomcat.

The ServletAPI modules were (I assume) created for use by Tomcat.
Unless we start a project at Apache for hosting JCP spec jars, it
seems that a part of the Tomcat community would be the ones writing
the servletapi-3.0.jar in 2 years time; so servletapi also seems like
it's owned by the Tomcat community.

Going a bit further out; I think it would be fair to say that the
Tomcat community are the inheritors of the mod_jserv stuff; but as the
last published cvs location for this no longer works, there's nothing
concrete to hand off. Just vague ownership of something archived
somewhere.

Hen

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Re: New TLP draft

2005-04-07 Thread Henri Yandell
On Apr 6, 2005 8:15 AM, Remy Maucherat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Here's a new draft with the necessary updates.
 
 I suppose this needs to be sent to the PMC for approval. If this draft
 is ok, I will send it there.
 
 Then there are infrastructure taks:
 - renaming mailing lists

To answer a later comment, Infra seem to have renaming of lists
scripted. Roy's taken care of the last few I've seen happen and they
seem to go very painlessly.

 - moving CVS

Also, UNIX group stuff on the server. I assume your users all get
added to a new tomcat group.

Need to identify just how much of the jakarta-* CVS will go with
Tomcat. Watchdog + ServletAPI modules?

Is it worth moving jakarta-tomcat* to apache-tomcat* if CVS is
definitely being turned off before 2006? Seems that the least amount
of work would be to do:

1) Tomcat becomes officially TLP at a board meeting in a few weeks
2) Remy points out Tomcat's desire to remain on CVS to Infra
3..N-1) Tomcat/Infra/Tomcat/Infra/board/committers/Tomcat/Infra/members/Infra
etc.
N)  a)  jakarta-tomcat to apache-tomcat CVS or b) jakarta-tomcat to
apache/tomcat SVN.

 - new DNS and virtual host

After this: creation of new tomcat site and redirect/modification of
jakarta site.

Hen

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Re: [VOTE] PMC Chair

2005-03-31 Thread Henri Yandell
No new votes in the last 36 hours, so I'll send the results tonight
(when time arrives).

Hen

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 00:22:54 -0500, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Update:
 
 6 more votes recorded, 2 in the last 24 hours:
 
 Ian Darwin (idarwin)
 Peter Rossbach (pero)
 Kurt Miller (truk)
 Glenn Nielsen (glenn)
 Jean-Frederic Clere (jfclere)
 Amy Roh (amyroh)
 
 Hen
 
 On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 01:55:24 -0500, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Just as an update, I've recorded 11 public/private votes from:
 
  Keith Wannamaker (keith)
  Mark Thomas (markt)
  Larry Isaacs (larryi)
  Filip Hanik (fhanik)
  Tim Funk (funkman)
  Kin-man Chung (kinman)
  Henri Gomez (hgomez)
  Mladen Turk (mturk)
  Costin Manolache (costin)
  Jim Jagielski (jim)
  Bill Barker (billbarker)
 
  There are 70 committers, and it's a holiday weekend (4 day weekend in
  some places, so not back til Tuesday) so I suspect it's best to keep
  the vote open for some more time.
 
  The above, plus Remy and Yoav, would represent the proposed PMC list,
  and I'll report on additional votes on Tuesday night.
 
  Hen
 


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[RESULT] PMC Chair

2005-03-31 Thread Henri Yandell
19 votes were recorded, and thus the proposed Tomcat PMC is:

Keith Wannamaker (keith)
Mark Thomas (markt)
Larry Isaacs (larryi)
Filip Hanik (fhanik)
Tim Funk (funkman)
Kin-man Chung (kinman)
Henri Gomez (hgomez)
Mladen Turk (mturk)
Costin Manolache (costin)
Jim Jagielski (jim)
Bill Barker (billbarker)
Ian Darwin (idarwin)
Peter Rossbach (pero)
Kurt Miller (truk)
Glenn Nielsen (glenn)
Jean-Frederic Clere (jfclere)
Amy Roh (amyroh)
Jeanfrancois Arcand (jfarcand)
Remy Maucherat (remm)
Yoav Shapira (yoavs)

The result was:

13 - Remy
 5 - Yoav
 1 - Costin


Hen

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Re: [VOTE] PMC Chair

2005-03-29 Thread Henri Yandell
Update:

6 more votes recorded, 2 in the last 24 hours:

Ian Darwin (idarwin)
Peter Rossbach (pero)
Kurt Miller (truk)
Glenn Nielsen (glenn)
Jean-Frederic Clere (jfclere)
Amy Roh (amyroh)

Hen

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 01:55:24 -0500, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Just as an update, I've recorded 11 public/private votes from:
 
 Keith Wannamaker (keith)
 Mark Thomas (markt)
 Larry Isaacs (larryi)
 Filip Hanik (fhanik)
 Tim Funk (funkman)
 Kin-man Chung (kinman)
 Henri Gomez (hgomez)
 Mladen Turk (mturk)
 Costin Manolache (costin)
 Jim Jagielski (jim)
 Bill Barker (billbarker)
 
 There are 70 committers, and it's a holiday weekend (4 day weekend in
 some places, so not back til Tuesday) so I suspect it's best to keep
 the vote open for some more time.
 
 The above, plus Remy and Yoav, would represent the proposed PMC list,
 and I'll report on additional votes on Tuesday night.
 
 Hen


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Re: [VOTE] PMC Chair

2005-03-27 Thread Henri Yandell
Just as an update, I've recorded 11 public/private votes from:

Keith Wannamaker (keith)
Mark Thomas (markt)
Larry Isaacs (larryi)
Filip Hanak (fhanak)
Tim Funk (funkman)
Kin-man Chung (kinman)
Henri Gomez (hgomez)  
Mladen Turk (mturk)
Costin Manolache (costin)
Jim Jagielski (jim)
Bill Barker (billbarker)

There are 70 committers, and it's a holiday weekend (4 day weekend in
some places, so not back til Tuesday) so I suspect it's best to keep
the vote open for some more time.

The above, plus Remy and Yoav, would represent the proposed PMC list,
and I'll report on additional votes on Tuesday night.

Hen

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Re: [VOTE] PMC Chair

2005-03-25 Thread Henri Yandell
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:19:07 -0800, Costin Manolache
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Jim Jagielski wrote:
  I would recommend that before anyone responds, we decide who should
  rec' and tally the votes. Also, votes should only be counted
  from those who will be on the new PMC.
 
  So before the vote:
 
 1. Finalize list of PMC members
(all current committers)
 2. Determine who to collect and tally votes
(I propose Henri Yandell)
 
 
 
 Let's not make this too long or complicated.
 
 Some votes are already out of the box, and I think we agree that
 any committer who wants to be in the PMC can get there by simply asking
 for it.
 
 So if Henri can send back a count ( or just the winner ) of all private
 votes he receives, as well as the list of people who voted - we can
 check against avail and update the PMC member list as well. ( a vote by
 a committer is an indication that he wants to vote so he wants to be in
 the pmc :-).

Yup. I can do this. Go for it.

Hen

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Re: TLP Draft Proposal

2005-03-23 Thread Henri Yandell
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:37:45 -0500 (EST), Jim Jagielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 The PMC Chair has ultimate authority, since the position is board
 appointed and results in the Chair being a VP of the ASF. There's
 no precedent for sharing the role or having a co-Chair. The PMC
 Chair is the point man for the PMC.

Yeah, I think there might be confusion over the fact that the Chair
and the VP are the same person and not two different roles.

 The PMC Chair is nominated by the PMC, and the recommendation is
 sent in with the PMC resolution. The board then debates the issue
 and will usually approve the resolution and appoint the nominated
 person as chair.
 
 Since the PMC Chair is the main guy for the PMC, it is even more
 an issue for that person to be very much an ASF weenie and
 understand and embrace the Apache Way... It can be a
 political and managerial kind of position and any candidate
 should realize that sad fact :/

Yep. I think there's a very difficult choice to make between a leader
and a servant. Without meaning to cause insult, I'll use Lucene as an
example.

Doug Cutting is the founder of Lucene and definitely one of the
leaders of the community. He was voted in as the chair. Erik Hatcher
however did a lot of the TLP preparation, legwork and migration crap.
While the chair does get looked to for leadership, there's a lot of
servitude to the community needed as well and unless you have people
volunteering, the chair will have to handle that themselves. If Doug
didn't have Erik volunteering to support him, would he want to
sacrifice that much time?

Biggest warning I have is that the servitude takes time. It'll be a
lot less for Tomcat than it is for me in Jakarta, but it still takes
time.

On the ASF weenie/Apache Way bit; anyone who is an ASF member should
already have passed that one, and Yoav and Remy are both members. So
while it may be true, I don't think it matters in this case.

Hen

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Re: TLP Draft Proposal

2005-03-23 Thread Henri Yandell
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:15:24 +0100, Mladen Turk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Henri Yandell wrote:
 
  Biggest warning I have is that the servitude takes time. It'll be a
  lot less for Tomcat than it is for me in Jakarta, but it still takes
  time.
 
 
 Well, I'll volunteer for CVS transition if no one else wants.

Now's a good time to think about SVN *grin*.

There's nothing official yet, but last I heard the proposal was to cut
CVS off at the end of the year.

 So one problem less.
 Regarding documentation, I know how to use sed, back from '80s.
 So thats the other problem resolved.
 Anything else :)

The sleepless nights, the stress, the joy, the tears

Although that might be more to do with my 5-month year old son than
anything to do with Jakarta :)

Hen

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Re: TLP Draft Proposal

2005-03-23 Thread Henri Yandell
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:39:40 +0100, Remy Maucherat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Henri Yandell wrote:
  On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:15:24 +0100, Mladen Turk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Henri Yandell wrote:
 
 Biggest warning I have is that the servitude takes time. It'll be a
 lot less for Tomcat than it is for me in Jakarta, but it still takes
 time.
 
 Well, I'll volunteer for CVS transition if no one else wants.
 
  Now's a good time to think about SVN *grin*.
 
  There's nothing official yet, but last I heard the proposal was to cut
  CVS off at the end of the year.
 
 SVN apparently doesn't provide good enough tools for me. For example, I
 haven't been able to get a revision graph out of it. As a result, it is
 much less efficient than CVS for being able to isolate a change which
 causes a bug.

Yep, I'm in full agreement that 3rd party CVS support, and our
experience of CVS, is significantly better than SVN. SVN does fix some
bugs/basic issues that it seems we're never going to get fixed in CVS,
but I find myself pining for CVS's less intelligent tagging concepts.

However, SVN has sufficient advantages on the server-side for the
people administrating the Apache boxes to long for it, and the choice
of techs is a balance between various people's requirements.

I've nudged Infra to see if they're planning to propose the
CVS-tuning-off proposal to the community soon, as the earlier the
better. It was meant to be an item of discussion at the Infrathon, and
as far as I know the basic jist will be that they'd like to be off of
CVS by 2006. So that'll definitely be an issue coming soon for the
Tomcat community (and a few others).

Let me rephrase the above to suggest that it would be a good idea for
Tomcat to solve the SVN question prior to spending time on their SCM
migration. Jetspeed continued to use the jakarta-jetspeed module for a
long time after their promotion, so there's no hard requirement to cut
all the coupling at the same time. (Must check if jakarta-jetspeed is
still active :) ).

Hen

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Re: [VOTE] Propose Jim Jagielski and William A. Rowe as JakartaTomcatConnectors commiters

2005-03-18 Thread Henri Yandell
Could you send a [RESULT] for this and Cc the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list to
record the addition of new committers?

Thanks,

Hen

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:49:43 -0600, William A. Rowe, Jr.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 At 02:09 PM 3/14/2005, Jim Jagielski wrote:
 Henri Gomez wrote:
 
  +1 for both of all.
 
  Should I understand they will works more on HTTPD related stuff and of
  course JK ?-)
 
 
 Yep, that's my intent :)
 
 Yes - I'm also interested in the AJP 14 implementation from the
 p.o.v. of ASP.NET backends.
 
 
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[site] New Jakarta download pages

2005-02-21 Thread Henri Yandell
(Bcc'd to all Jakarta dev lists)
Partly an announcement that the Jakarta download pages have been changed 
somewhat. Rather than one huge page, it's a whole set of pages. So when 
time comes to do your next release, you modify 
site/downloads/downloads.xml and run ant.

Source, binary and nightly-builds are all part of the same page.
More importantly, a suggestion that projects should no longer link to the 
top download page, but instead link to their particular download page.

So POI would link to:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/downloads/downloads_poi.cgi
Commons would link to:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/downloads/downloads_commons.html
Commons IO would link to:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/downloads/downloads_commons-io.cgi
and so on.
The new pages should be exact matches to the previous binindex and 
sourceindex pages. One requested improvement is for filenames to be 
specified rather than '1.0.zip'. Hopefully we can make that change 
globally by figuring out the xslt to get the filename from a url.

Another improvement is to add the cvs.apache.org/snapshot/velocity, and 
any other live snapshots as Nightly Builds.

Apologies for the cross-list posting, wanted to make sure everybody got 
the memo about changing the download links if they want. :) Please direct 
replies back to the general list.

Hen
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Re: SVN migration?

2005-02-05 Thread Henri Yandell
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 19:16:03 -0800, Costin Manolache
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I like SVN a lot - and for a new project probably I would choose it if
 there is a choice - sf.net or other places are cvs only.  But I don't
 think all the pain for switching tomcat is justified, and switching few
 repositories but not others is even worse.

+1. Definite disservice to the subcommunity if you are straddling two
source control systems.

 Unless we're going to do major reorganization of the code ( move
 directories around ) or we start some complex branches, or we have any
 other need where SVN is much better than CVS - I would say it's better
 for everyone to stick with the stable environment.

I'll start to maintain a list of Want to stay in CVS for the near
future, and I'll add Tomcat/ServletAPI/Watchdog to that, as I think
those are the groups that this list represents :)

Reasons:

1) Eclipse support (nobody has mentioned a different IDE yet)
2) A lot to do when there's no driving need to migrate.

Hen

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Re: SVN migration?

2005-02-04 Thread Henri Yandell
Just noticed an email on commons-dev.

Subclipse doesn't support the synchonize feature yet. 

Hen

On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 02:57:35 -0500, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Tool-wise, Subclipse is an Eclipse plugin that seems to work fine for
 standard development (checkout, update, diff, commit). I'm unsure
 whether you can create tags/branches using it as I always do that on
 the command line, be it cvs or svn. IntelliJ has a plugin and the next
 version will have it built in. TortoiseSvn is spoken well of, and I
 can vouch for svn on linux/OS X, I've had no problems in the last year
 of use.

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SVN migration?

2005-02-03 Thread Henri Yandell
Just wondering if the Tomcat community have any thoughts on a
migration to Subversion?

The process seems pretty easy, though Tomcat may be more complicated
than the usual CVS module. Infra have the process documented at:

http://www.apache.org/dev/cvs2svn.html

The Jakarta status is in the wiki at:

http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/Migrating_20to_20Subversion

The aim would be for all the tomcat modules to migrate into
asf/repos/jakarta/tomcat/ so that we can have a cleaner top-level
structure to the system, within that though the Tomcat community are
free to choose whatever strategy fits.

I've intentionally left Tomcat until last to nudge about this so as to
build up some experience within Jakarta of dealing with SVN as users
and as a migration. Some of you are probably already getting to grips
with svn following the Commons migration.

Just to provide the context for this, the Infra group are looking to
move from CVS to SVN in the long term and Jakarta were far and away
the main laggards in this. In the last month or so, a third of Jakarta
has moved over, so that's now improving.

Another question is whether the Tomcat community have any svn
expertise in terms of planning svn strategies, or whether we should
try to find some other committers to offer opinions.

Thanks,

Hen

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Re: SVN migration?

2005-02-03 Thread Henri Yandell
Just to add, as far as I know the following are the Tomcat modules:

jakarta-servletapi/  
jakarta-servletapi-4/
jakarta-servletapi-5/ 
jakarta-tomcat/  
jakarta-tomcat-4.0/  
jakarta-tomcat-5/
jakarta-tomcat-catalina/ 
jakarta-tomcat-connectors/   
jakarta-tomcat-jasper/   
jakarta-tomcat-service/  
jakarta-tomcat-site/ 
jakarta-tools/ 

I suspect you'll want to have:

repos/asf/jakarta/servletapi/
and
repos/asf/jakarta/tomcat/

I'm not sure if jakarta-tools is in anyway alive. The times on the
files look very old.

Hen

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 23:27:43 -0500, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Just wondering if the Tomcat community have any thoughts on a
 migration to Subversion?
 
 The process seems pretty easy, though Tomcat may be more complicated
 than the usual CVS module. Infra have the process documented at:
 
 http://www.apache.org/dev/cvs2svn.html
 
 The Jakarta status is in the wiki at:
 
 http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/Migrating_20to_20Subversion
 
 The aim would be for all the tomcat modules to migrate into
 asf/repos/jakarta/tomcat/ so that we can have a cleaner top-level
 structure to the system, within that though the Tomcat community are
 free to choose whatever strategy fits.
 
 I've intentionally left Tomcat until last to nudge about this so as to
 build up some experience within Jakarta of dealing with SVN as users
 and as a migration. Some of you are probably already getting to grips
 with svn following the Commons migration.
 
 Just to provide the context for this, the Infra group are looking to
 move from CVS to SVN in the long term and Jakarta were far and away
 the main laggards in this. In the last month or so, a third of Jakarta
 has moved over, so that's now improving.
 
 Another question is whether the Tomcat community have any svn
 expertise in terms of planning svn strategies, or whether we should
 try to find some other committers to offer opinions.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Hen


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Re: SVN migration?

2005-02-03 Thread Henri Yandell
I've not heard anything about it being mandatory yet, but the numbers
speak for themselves.

The www.apache.org site has 24 coding projects. There are 22 projects
listed on the svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi page. 2 of those are dead, so
20 out of 24 ASF projects have an svn presence of some kind.

The people still left with readable CVS modules are:

mod_perl
ant
2/3rds of jakarta
possibly gump (though they have an svn module too)
apache conference
most of xml
logging
half of web services

So I assume at some point there'll be pressure to turn off the CVS server.

On the command line, svn is pretty much the same as cvs. Some bits are
faster, some slower. There are various improved features
(http://subversion.tigris.org/ lists them) that people have been
asking for for ages with CVS.

Habit-wise, the only differences I've hit are:

1) you checkout from a url, not from a cvs-root and a path.
2) tagging/branching is done by copying a directory revision (really
creating a symlink-style thing in the database) and isn't applied to
every file individually.

Tool-wise, Subclipse is an Eclipse plugin that seems to work fine for
standard development (checkout, update, diff, commit). I'm unsure
whether you can create tags/branches using it as I always do that on
the command line, be it cvs or svn. IntelliJ has a plugin and the next
version will have it built in. TortoiseSvn is spoken well of, and I
can vouch for svn on linux/OS X, I've had no problems in the last year
of use.

Docs are docs :) Yep, they'll need updating. 

Build scripts. Do you have scripts that check modules out of cvs? If
so I imagine the ant support for svn might be a big deal. Unsure what
it's like.

Hen

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 21:32:41 -0800, Costin Manolache
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Is this mandatory ? I suspect there'll be a lot of build
 script/doc/habits/tool changes involved. CVS is working reasonably well
 at the moment, and a lot of tools have (finally) very good support for it.
 
 Costin
 
 Henri Yandell wrote:
  Just wondering if the Tomcat community have any thoughts on a
  migration to Subversion?
 
  The process seems pretty easy, though Tomcat may be more complicated
  than the usual CVS module. Infra have the process documented at:
 
  http://www.apache.org/dev/cvs2svn.html
 
  The Jakarta status is in the wiki at:
 
  http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/Migrating_20to_20Subversion
 
  The aim would be for all the tomcat modules to migrate into
  asf/repos/jakarta/tomcat/ so that we can have a cleaner top-level
  structure to the system, within that though the Tomcat community are
  free to choose whatever strategy fits.
 
  I've intentionally left Tomcat until last to nudge about this so as to
  build up some experience within Jakarta of dealing with SVN as users
  and as a migration. Some of you are probably already getting to grips
  with svn following the Commons migration.
 
  Just to provide the context for this, the Infra group are looking to
  move from CVS to SVN in the long term and Jakarta were far and away
  the main laggards in this. In the last month or so, a third of Jakarta
  has moved over, so that's now improving.
 
  Another question is whether the Tomcat community have any svn
  expertise in terms of planning svn strategies, or whether we should
  try to find some other committers to offer opinions.
 
  Thanks,
 
  Hen
 
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Re: IP issues

2005-01-04 Thread Henri Yandell
On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 19:58:14 -0800, Costin Manolache
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I fully agree. Doesn't matter how small a contribution is ( or looks at
 some later time ), keeping the reference to the author and whatever else
 the author wants to include is the right thing to do ( if the code is
 accepted and used ).
 
 Too bad what's ethical doesn't matter that much, only copyrights and IP
 ownership  :-)

I'd like to add Genscape, Inc. Monitoring the world's power. For
info, call 502 555 1000 to any bits of code unlucky enough to have
had me near them :)

Or maybe All your plant belong to us. Damn. I need to go talk to the
marketing drones.

Hen

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Re: jakarta-site2 now live on xslt

2005-01-02 Thread Henri Yandell

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005, Mark Thomas wrote:
Henri Yandell wrote:
I've removed the Website Maintenance link too, it no longer makes much 
sense and nobody seemed to mind the suggestion of killing it.  It has (the 
page isn't gone yet, just the link) a lot of stuff about using 
jakarta-site2 as a system for other sites (I thought somebody mentioned 
Tomcat did this, but looking at their CVS repo I can't see references to 
jakarta-site2).
There is a reference in jakarta-tomcat-site\build.bat (and build.sh). At the 
moment the tomcat site won't build using CVS HEAD.
Ack, sorry. I didn't think to look in the scripts, just the build.xml.
If the old version is needed however, it is tagged under the tag 
PRE-ANAKIA-REMOVAL.
And this is the obvious work-around until one of us takes a look at this.
Let me know if I can do anything to help; I obviously don't intend to go 
breaking things for any of the subprojects.

Hen
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Re: jakarta-site2 now live on xslt

2005-01-02 Thread Henri Yandell

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005, sebb wrote:
Looks like a *lot* of other projects use the Anakia jars and/or
stylesheets from jakarta-site2 - not just jakarta-tomcat-site...so
perhaps those need to be restored.
Sites with the older lf:
Taglibs, Velocity, BSF, ECS, JMeter, Lucene, ORO, Regexp, Slide, Tomcat, 
Watchdog.

However, the following all appear to be self contained/non-users:
Taglibs, Velocity, BSF, Watchdog, Slide.
Sorry, should have remembered that, as it used to apply to jmeter...
+ JMeter.
So the broken ones look like they are Tomcat, Regexp, ORO, Lucene, ECS.
I've added the jars and the vsl back in. This is also our list of people 
that will have a problem when we migrate to SVN, but as they probably 
never change the site2 bits, they'll probably be happy with a read-only 
repository for a while.

Regexp builds the docs now, so I'll trust the others are okay.
Hen
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Re: [Fwd: Please remove ALL REFERENCES to nagoya]

2005-01-01 Thread Henri Yandell
Noel just searched on .html files, there's also:

There's also:

tomcat-4.0/jakarta-tomcat-4.0/RELEASE-NOTES-4.0-B2.txt:   
http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/
tomcat-4.0/jakarta-tomcat-4.0/RELEASE-NOTES-4.0-B3.txt:   
http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/
tomcat-4.0/jakarta-tomcat-4.0/RELEASE-NOTES-4.0-B4.txt:   
http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/
tomcat-4.0/jakarta-tomcat-4.0/RELEASE-NOTES-4.0-B5.txt:   
http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/
tomcat-4.0/jakarta-tomcat-4.0/RELEASE-NOTES-4.0-B6.txt:   
http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/
tomcat-4.0/jakarta-tomcat-4.0/RELEASE-NOTES-4.0-B7.txt:   
http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/
tomcat-4.0/jakarta-tomcat-4.0/RELEASE-NOTES-4.0-RC1.txt:   
http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/
tomcat-4.0/jakarta-tomcat-4.0/RELEASE-NOTES-4.0-RC2.txt:   
http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/
tomcat-4.0/jakarta-tomcat-4.0/RELEASE-NOTES-4.0.txt:   
http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/
tomcat-4.0/jakarta-tomcat-4.0/RELEASE-NOTES-4.0.txt:   
http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3509
tomcat-4.0/jakarta-tomcat-4.0/RELEASE-NOTES-4.0.txt:   
http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3534
tomcat-4.0/jakarta-tomcat-4.0/RELEASE-PLAN-4.0.txt: 
http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/

or you could remove tomcat-4.0 :)

Hen

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 13:04:04 +, Mark Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Happy new year all.
 
 I have fixed the remianing issues in the jakarta-tomcta-site module
 (just need to update the live site) but I have a question about the
 tomcat-docs that are taken from the releases.
 
 What policy do we following for updating the on-line docs? Do they reflect:
 
 - the latest stable release
 - the latest release
 - usually the latest release but can be updated from CVS HEAD if necessary
 - something else
 
 One further question for Remy/Yoav:
 
 - tomcat-4.1-doc is symlinked to tomcat-4.1-doc-v4.1.31 but
 tomcat-5.0-doc and tomcat-5.5-doc seem to be copies rather than
 symlinks. Is there any particular reason for this? Is one way better
 than the other and if so why?
 
 Cheers,
 
 Mark
 
  Original Message 
 From: Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Folks,
 
 Please review your site materials and fix any references ASAP.
 
 As previously indicated, the machine name nagoya is going away in very
 short order.  Projects should not have any references on their web sites to
 any Apache machine names, only to domains such as issues, mail-archives,
 etc.  Sites still referencing nagoya.apache.org will break.  Unfortunately,
 due to the fragile nature of eyebrowse URLs, all of those URLs will break
 regardless of domain name.
 
 To make lives easier, I have located all current references to nagoya on the
 ASF web-sites.  They are located in
 http://www.apache.org/~noel/nagoya-references.txt.  If you are receiving
 this e-mail, your project is on the list.
 
 --- Noel
 
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Re: Removing Tomcat files in jakarta.apache.org/site

2004-12-30 Thread Henri Yandell
I'm also interested in killing:

http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat-old/

and

http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat-4.0/

Hen

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 02:00:08 -0500, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Anyone mind if I nuke:
 
 http://jakarta.apache.org/site/idedev-rdeclipse.html
 http://jakarta.apache.org/site/idedev-rdtomcat.html
 http://jakarta.apache.org/site/idedev-rdnetbeans.html
 
 They look like they're either dead, or long since have become a part
 of Tomcat's site.
 
 If they are still live, could they be migrated into Tomcat?
 
 Hen


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Removing Tomcat files in jakarta.apache.org/site

2004-12-28 Thread Henri Yandell
Anyone mind if I nuke:

http://jakarta.apache.org/site/idedev-rdeclipse.html
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/idedev-rdtomcat.html
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/idedev-rdnetbeans.html

They look like they're either dead, or long since have become a part
of Tomcat's site.

If they are still live, could they be migrated into Tomcat?

Hen

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Re: IP issues

2004-12-22 Thread Henri Yandell
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 17:40:25 +0100, Remy Maucherat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Fixing the GIFs should be easy. How about the two Java files ? I would
 need an answer from Jason and Craig to see if I can safely remove the
 comments (otherwise we would have to reimplement these, right ?).

Sounds right. Let me know if you need any assistance.

Hen

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Re: IP issues

2004-12-22 Thread Henri Yandell
(this is based on assumptions, so let me know if they are wrong Jason)

I must admit that I lack the experience to be sure of the correct action here.

The image copyrights are easy; things need to be copyright to the ASF,
not to Sun. So they need fixing somehow.

Jason's code is harder. 

It doesn't say that it's copyrighted to Jason, just that it's
originally from classes by him. As the code in Tomcat is copyright to
the ASF, there's no reason why we couldn't remove the comments apart
from the politeness aspect that Jason raises. The code isn't licenced
to the ASF, it's donated to the ASF and now owned by the ASF (for this
instance, Jason owns a duplicate instance).

Not knowing the whole story, the whole question is whether we actually
own that code or if it was licensed to Sun and then they donated it to
Apache, something they did not have the right to do. Does Jason have a
CLA, and if not, would we need one?

I think we should remove the Sun permission line; it's not important
to the existence in Tomcat. Keeping the rest of the comment seems fine
to me, provided we're sure we own the code.

Hen

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 14:12:43 -0800, Jason Hunter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I think it would be rude to remove the comments about where the source
 files originated, as they were developed apart from Apache and have a
 life on their own apart from Apache.  Attribution is fair and proper.
 However I did grant permission for Sun (and of course Apache) to license
 the code under the Apache license.
 
 -jh-
 
 Remy Maucherat wrote:
 
  Hi,
 
  There are apparently a few licensing issues with some files in the
  Tomcat CVS:
 
 jakarta-tomcat-5.0.28-src/jakarta-tomcat-catalina/catalina/src
 /share/org/apache/catalina/util/CharsetMapper.java
18:  * This class is based on a class originally written
by Jason
 Hunter
19:  * [EMAIL PROTECTED] as part of the book Java Servlet
 Programming
20:  * (O'Reilly).  See http://www.servlets.com/book for more
 information.
21:  * Used by Sun Microsystems with permission.
22:  */
23:
24: package org.apache.catalina.util;

   
   
jakarta-tomcat-5.0.28-src/jakarta-tomcat-catalina/webapps/admi
n/images/Context.gif
   
 4: ?ycga???wHIL!?OCopyright 2000 by Sun Microsystems, Inc. All
 Rights Reserved.
 5: JLF GR Ver 1.0
   
   
 jakarta-tomcat-5.0.28-src/jakarta-tomcat-catalina/webapps/admi
 n/images/Host.gif
 2: !?OCopyright 2000 by Sun Microsystems, Inc. All Rights
 Reserved.
   
   
 jakarta-tomcat-5.0.28-src/jakarta-tomcat-connectors/util/java/
 org/apache/tomcat/util/http/LocaleToCharsetMap.java
19:  * This class was originally written by Jason Hunter
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20:  * as part of the book Java Servlet Programming
(O'Reilly).
21:  * See http://www.servlets.com/book for more information.
22:  * Used by Sun Microsystems with permission.
 
  Fixing the GIFs should be easy. How about the two Java files ? I would
  need an answer from Jason and Craig to see if I can safely remove the
  comments (otherwise we would have to reimplement these, right ?).
 
  Thanks,
  Rémy
 
 
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Re: [PROPOSAL] EL Transition to Jakarta Commons

2002-12-18 Thread Henri Yandell

With the String Taglib hat on, +1. Would be nice to have a smaller jar to
link to. [Though I see it can kinda be done now].

With a Commons hat on, +0. Sounds useful, but want to make sure the
Standard Taglib developers still monitor it and that it doesn't get
abandoned. With Standard driving it, there seems less chance of this than
with other projects.

Hen

On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Pierre Delisle wrote:

 +1

 -- Pierre

 Jan Luehe wrote:
 
  I'd like to resume discussion on a proposal circulated by James
  Strachan on March 13, 2002, about turning the implementation of JSTL's
  expression language (EL) into a reusable component and moving it from
  the Standard Taglib, an implementation of JSTL hosted by
  jakarta-taglibs, to jakarta-commons, in order to make it available to
  a larger number of projects.
 
  James' original proposal received some positive feedback from the
  taglibs-dev community. Below is a draft proposal for a formal
  submission to jakarta-commons, following the format of the
  jakarta-commons charter at http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/charter.html.
 
  (0) Rationale
 
  The JSP Standard Tag Library (JSTL), version 1.0, introduced the
  concept of an Expression Language (EL), whose main goal is to provide
  page authors with an easy way to access and manipulate application
  data without requiring the use of scriptlets
 
  JSP 2.0 adopted the EL specification from JSTL, and expanded its
  scope: EL expressions are no longer limited to JSTL action attributes,
  but may be used in any standard or custom action attribute declared to
  accept a runtime expression. In addition, EL expressions may now also
  be used directly in template text outside of any actions. JSP 2.0 also
  added an important feature to the EL specification: EL functions,
  which allow page authors to invoke static methods in Java classes from
  EL expressions. Additionally, JSP 2.0 allows programmatic access and
  customization of the EL evaluator through a set of standard interfaces
  and abstract classes.
 
  Currently, there are a number of projects (including Tomcat 5 and Java
  Server Faces) that leverage the EL implementation of the Standard
  Taglib. In addition, there seems to be interest in leveraging the EL
  in the context of scripting workflow activities using custom tag
  libraries.
 
  In order to make the EL implementation available to Tomcat 5, the
  Tomcat team defined a new ant target for the Standard Taglib that
  builds just the EL portion and packages it in a JAR file
  (jsp20el.jar) which is stored in Tomcat's common/lib directory. This
  approach has always been considered an interim solution only, until
  the EL implementation would move from the Standard Taglib to a more
  visible location such as jakarta-commons.
 
  (1) Scope of the package
 
  The package shall provide an implementation of the Expression Language
  specification which is part of the JSP 2.0 standard.
 
  (1.5) Interaction with other packages
 
  The package shall provide an implementation of the standard interfaces
  and abstract classes of the javax.servlet.jsp.el package, which is
  defined in the JSP 2.0 specification.
 
  (2) Identify the initial source for the package
 
  The initial codebase will be taken from the Standard Taglib project
  hosted at jakarta-taglibs. The source of the Standard Taglib is
  available as part of the jakarta-taglibs nightly source distribution
  at http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/jakarta-taglibs/nightly/src/
 
  (2.1) Identify the base name for the package
 
  The base name of the package shall be org.apache.commons.el
 
  (2.2) Identify the coding conventions for this package
 
  The package follows Sun's Java coding conventions (see
  http://java.sun.com/docs/codeconv/html/CodeConvTOC.doc.html).
 
  (3) Identify any Jakarta-Commons resources to be created
 
  (3.1) Mailing list
 
  The package shall use the jakarta-commons mailing list.
 
  (3.2) CVS repositories
 
  The package shall use a root branch of the jakarta-commons CVS.
 
  (3.3) Bugzilla
 
  The package shall be listed as the EL component under the Commons
  project in Bugzilla.
 
  (3.4) Jyve FAQ (when available)
 
  n/a
 
  (4) Identify the initial set of committers to be listed in the Status File.
 
  The initial set of committers will be identical to the set of
  committers of the Standard Taglib project.
 
  Thoughts?
 
  Jan
 
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-24 Thread Henri Yandell


+1.

Another example if I could. The job role of 'Java admin' is growing more
and more at companies. Developers shouldn't be adminning things, but would
you have your unix or oracle admin be the admin of the Java side with zero
Java knowledge?

Jakarta houses the 'Java' community at Apache but there's no way for a
Java admin to be a part of that community. Helping other admins, writing
documentation, being a consumer at the coders. The only way it can happen
is if they become a coder, and that's contrary to the concept of a Java
admin.

I think Pier's suggestion will help to grow the 'ownership' of the
projects and the apache way of thinking to a larger audience.

Some possible negatives:

With more non-codery people around, will the 'noise' level in mail lists
be too high for coders to want to pay attention?
[It already is getting that way I find. I delete entire threads if the
first couple of mails are not of interest to me. It has to be retitled as
with this email to make me realise there was more going on than the
original mails. ]

By growing a large community of non-coders, the coders could have less say
in the product. Is this good/bad? How would the +1/-1 system work. Would
votes be open to committers only in some instances, and to non-committing
members only in others. Who votes membership vs committership vs
contributorship?


None of them that hard to answer I imagine.

Hen

On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote:

 Chatted with a lot of people, seen many, different development models, went
 around, asked, talked, and I believe I have a pretty decent picture, and
 maybe even a solution...

 So, given this little background, I would like to ask to the PMC, and all
 other committers, if others agree that we should splitting the committer
 figure in two parts:

 - contributor: a contributor is someone who has access to a particular CVS
 tree, but for any reason doesn't want/need to be involved with the whole
 Jakarta community. He just wants to code his little bit and live a long
 life.

 - member: is someone who is involved with the Jakarta community, somehow,
 somewhere (might be just giving a great deal in supporting users of our
 projects, or providing extra value to projects, like guidance in respect to
 overall specifications, binary builds). He is effectively a member of the
 community and has all the rights and dues of every member, such as
 participate in the election of the PMC.

 And redefining the figure of the committer as follows:

 - committer: is a contributor, but also a member, therefore he has all the
 privileges and dues of a contributor (having CVS access, and overlooking the
 code he's contributing to) and of a member (can vote for PMCs, should
 participate and contribute to discussions on the overall structure of
 Jakarta).



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