Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Pier Fumagalli]

Craig R. McClanahan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> An immediate prospect would be the JSTL APIs from jakarta-taglibs/standard
> (jsr052).

Makes sense. And jakarta-taglibs will remain for our Apache non-standard
ones, right?

> A couple of "devils in the details" questions:
> 
> * Where should CVS commit mail for this repository go?  Probably
> a new mailing list (apis-dev@ or something).

Makes sense. Or I can just create some aliases to go here-and-there...

> * Who gets commit access?  This goes beyond Tomcat's committers
> once other APIs start getting added.

Whoever has the scope on that project. When we'll move to SubVersion (since
it's getting stable lately) that problem will go away. Don't worry too much
about the "avail" file right now.

Pier

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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Remy Maucherat]

Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
> jakarta-apis/jsr154/src/java
> jakarta-apis/jsr152/src/java

+1.

Using the jsr numbers may not be explicit enough, though (but it gets 
the job done, so ...).

I have the feeling we're getting somewhere :)

Remy


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Jon Scott Stevens]

on 7/18/02 5:13 PM, "Craig R. McClanahan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> * Who gets commit access?  This goes beyond Tomcat's committers
> once other APIs start getting added.
> 
> Craig

That is why I suggested separate repo's.

-jon


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RE: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Craig R. McClanahan]

On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:02:38 -0700 (PDT)
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-To: Tomcat Developers List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Tomcat Developers List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
>
>
> > > jakarta-apis/jsr154/src/java
> > > jakarta-apis/jsr152/src/java
>
> +1 as well.
>

An immediate prospect would be the JSTL APIs from jakarta-taglibs/standard
(jsr052).

For consistency purposes, we could put the existing sources from
jakarta-servletapi-4 into a jsr053 subdirectory. if we wanted.

> Costin
>

A couple of "devils in the details" questions:

* Where should CVS commit mail for this repository go?  Probably
  a new mailing list (apis-dev@ or something).

* Who gets commit access?  This goes beyond Tomcat's committers
  once other APIs start getting added.

Craig


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RE: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[costinm]

> > jakarta-apis/jsr154/src/java
> > jakarta-apis/jsr152/src/java

+1 as well.

Costin


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RE: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Ignacio J. Ortega]

> jakarta-apis/jsr154/src/java
> jakarta-apis/jsr152/src/java

+1

Saludos ,
Ignacio J. Ortega

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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Pier Fumagalli]

Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> jakarta-apis/jsr154/src/java
> jakarta-apis/jsr152/src/java

+1 

Pier

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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Jon Scott Stevens]

on 7/18/02 4:07 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Ok, what about using the original jakarta-servletapi repository and
> creating a subdir for each JSR ?

I think it should be renamed...

> Or a new jakarta-apis directory and creating one subdir for each JSR ?

Sounds good. Maybe even a directory structure like:

jakarta-apis/jsr154/src/java
jakarta-apis/jsr152/src/java

> Eventually this can be used for other JSRs where open source
> implementations are permited - similar with what xml-apis is doing
> with DOM,SAX,JAXP.

+1

-jon


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[costinm]

On Thu, 18 Jul 2002, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:

> > But that's not the reason
> > I'm voting against - we already have too many CVS trees and this is
> > bad organization, it could be well placed in a single CVS in separate
> > directories. 
> > 
> > Having a separate CVS for a dozen of files instead of just a separate
> > directory is a bad solution.
> 
> I'm cool with that modification to the proposal.
> 
> Separate directory tree's in the same repo is fine with me as long as the
> building of the Servlet API does not require the other directory tree to
> exist. ie: The Servlet API should not depend on the JSP API.

Ok, what about using the original jakarta-servletapi repository and 
creating a subdir for each JSR ? 

Or a new jakarta-apis directory and creating one subdir for each JSR ?
Eventually this can be used for other JSRs where open source
implementations are permited - similar with what xml-apis is doing
with DOM,SAX,JAXP.



Costin



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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Jon Scott Stevens]

on 7/18/02 7:16 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> But that's not the reason
> I'm voting against - we already have too many CVS trees and this is
> bad organization, it could be well placed in a single CVS in separate
> directories. 
> 
> Having a separate CVS for a dozen of files instead of just a separate
> directory is a bad solution.

I'm cool with that modification to the proposal.

Separate directory tree's in the same repo is fine with me as long as the
building of the Servlet API does not require the other directory tree to
exist. ie: The Servlet API should not depend on the JSP API.

-jon


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Jon Scott Stevens]

on 7/18/02 7:16 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm pretty sure Jon is not proposing this for the benefit of tomcat or
> tomcat users, but out of his hate for JSPs.

>From my POV, splitting JSP out of Tomcat would benefit Tomcat and Tomcat
users.

-jon


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Bojan Smojver]

On Fri, 2002-07-19 at 00:16, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I'm pretty sure Jon is not proposing this for the benefit of tomcat or 
> tomcat users, but out of his hate for JSPs.

What's wrong with that?

;-))

Bojan


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RE: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Henri Gomez]

Quoting "Ignacio J. Ortega" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> > De: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Enviado el: 18 de julio de 2002 1:34
> 
> > 
> > [X] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
> > [ ] I don't care
> > [ ] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
> > 
> 
> I dont see why this needs another repo, my only reason is that there are
> too much already, but i can understand the naming problem is very
> confusing to serve 2 different apis under the name of only one of them,
> this should by changed, now that is easy..
> 
> Counterproposal:
> 
> one repo "jakarta-tomcat-apis",  this saves the naming point it's
> neutral, this could contain every api Tomcat uses for 5.0 and in future,
> branching allowed,  )
> 
> 2 dirs inside "servlet" & "jsp", standalone build.xml for each, and one
> common in the root repo dir.. to match every taste..

+1 that's a good idea ;)


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RE: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Keith Wannamaker]

| 
| [X] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
| [ ] I don't care
| [ ] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
| 

TC 4 has too many external module dependencies as it is.

Keith


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RE: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Ignacio J. Ortega]

> De: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Enviado el: 18 de julio de 2002 1:34

> 
> [X] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
> [ ] I don't care
> [ ] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
> 

I dont see why this needs another repo, my only reason is that there are
too much already, but i can understand the naming problem is very
confusing to serve 2 different apis under the name of only one of them,
this should by changed, now that is easy..

Counterproposal:

one repo "jakarta-tomcat-apis",  this saves the naming point it's
neutral, this could contain every api Tomcat uses for 5.0 and in future,
branching allowed,  )

2 dirs inside "servlet" & "jsp", standalone build.xml for each, and one
common in the root repo dir.. to match every taste..


Saludos ,
Ignacio J. Ortega


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Remy Maucherat]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
> 
> 
>>[X] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
>>[ ] I don't care
>>[ ] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure Jon is not proposing this for the benefit of tomcat or 
> tomcat users, but out of his hate for JSPs. But that's not the reason
> I'm voting against - we already have too many CVS trees and this is 
> bad organization, it could be well placed in a single CVS in separate
> directories. 
> 
> Having a separate CVS for a dozen of files instead of just a separate
> directory is a bad solution.

That's a good point. Separating the servlet and JSP code using 
directories in the repository would have a similar result from the 
developer standpoint, while not adding another repository.

Maybe this is a good middle point.

Remy


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[costinm]

On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:

> [X] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
> [ ] I don't care
> [ ] I want the API's split into separate repo's.

I'm pretty sure Jon is not proposing this for the benefit of tomcat or 
tomcat users, but out of his hate for JSPs. But that's not the reason
I'm voting against - we already have too many CVS trees and this is 
bad organization, it could be well placed in a single CVS in separate
directories. 

Having a separate CVS for a dozen of files instead of just a separate
directory is a bad solution.



Costin


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Pier Fumagalli]

"Patrick Luby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Oops. The javax.servlet.jsp.* packages have been in jakarta-servlet-4
> for a long time.
> 
> In any case, I tried seeing if this issue could be solved by merely
> moving the javax.servlet.jsp.* packages over to the
> jakarta-tomcat-jasper repository. Unfortunately, that breaks the
> jakarta-taglibs code that jakarta-tomcat-jasper depend on. I suspect
> that there are other projects that may expect the javax.servlet.jsp.*
> package to be in servlet.jar as well. :(
> 
> So, even though I don't like the current structure and I think it would
> be cleaner to have the javax.servlet.jsp.* packages separated from the
> javax.servlet.* packages, separating them may cause a lot of pain for
> others who have come to depend on the current structure. I feel that I
> should take this into my vote and, hence, I am changing my vote to:

In this case, it's not our problem... They should fix their stuff...

Pier


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Glenn Nielsen]

Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
> 
> Therefore, I'm asking for another vote to split the CVS repositories to
> represent the split JSR's and adapt the build system of the JSP repository
> to have a dependency on the Servlet repository, but not the other way
> around. It is ok to also have the JSP build system generate a single .jar
> file with both the Servlet api and JSP api included.
> 
> [ ] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
> [ ] I don't care
> [X] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
> 

Starting with the new Servlet/JSP 2 specs.  Its ok to split the new
specs, existing dependencies are on jakarta-servletapi-4 which will
remain as is.

Glenn

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RE: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[John Trollinger]

[ ] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
[ ] I don't care
[X] I want the API's split into separate repo's.

-jon


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Jon Scott Stevens]

on 7/17/02 11:35 PM, "Patrick Luby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> All,
> 
> Patrick Luby wrote:
> 
>> I tend to agree with Jon on this issue. When I voted for a
>> java-servletapi-5 repository, I made the - I think reasonable -
>> assumption that the java-servletapi-5 repository would only contain the
>> JSR-154 code. After all, the java-servletapi-4 repository has, for as
>> long as I can remember, only contained javax.servlet.* classes.
>> 
> 
> Oops. The javax.servlet.jsp.* packages have been in jakarta-servlet-4
> for a long time.
> 
> In any case, I tried seeing if this issue could be solved by merely
> moving the javax.servlet.jsp.* packages over to the
> jakarta-tomcat-jasper repository. Unfortunately, that breaks the
> jakarta-taglibs code that jakarta-tomcat-jasper depend on. I suspect
> that there are other projects that may expect the javax.servlet.jsp.*
> package to be in servlet.jar as well. :(
> 
> So, even though I don't like the current structure and I think it would
> be cleaner to have the javax.servlet.jsp.* packages separated from the
> javax.servlet.* packages, separating them may cause a lot of pain for
> others who have come to depend on the current structure. I feel that I
> should take this into my vote and, hence, I am changing my vote to:
> 
> [X] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
> [ ] I don't care
> [ ] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
> 
> Patrick

I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT CHANGING THE PACKAGE STRUCTURE OF THE JAR FILE.

-jon


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Remy Maucherat]

Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
> [ ] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
> [ ] I don't care
> [X] I want the API's split into separate repo's.

It will likely break a few build scripts, but that will be easy to fix.

I'm voting to split (actually, I'm more in the "I don't care" item) 
because this is a highly political issue we've already wasted way too 
much time on in the past IMO.

Remy


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Patrick Luby]

All,

Patrick Luby wrote:

 > I tend to agree with Jon on this issue. When I voted for a
 > java-servletapi-5 repository, I made the - I think reasonable -
 > assumption that the java-servletapi-5 repository would only contain the
 > JSR-154 code. After all, the java-servletapi-4 repository has, for as
 > long as I can remember, only contained javax.servlet.* classes.
 >

Oops. The javax.servlet.jsp.* packages have been in jakarta-servlet-4
for a long time.

In any case, I tried seeing if this issue could be solved by merely
moving the javax.servlet.jsp.* packages over to the
jakarta-tomcat-jasper repository. Unfortunately, that breaks the
jakarta-taglibs code that jakarta-tomcat-jasper depend on. I suspect
that there are other projects that may expect the javax.servlet.jsp.*
package to be in servlet.jar as well. :(

So, even though I don't like the current structure and I think it would
be cleaner to have the javax.servlet.jsp.* packages separated from the
javax.servlet.* packages, separating them may cause a lot of pain for
others who have come to depend on the current structure. I feel that I
should take this into my vote and, hence, I am changing my vote to:

[X] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
[ ] I don't care
[ ] I want the API's split into separate repo's.

Patrick

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Patrick Luby Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sun Microsystems Phone: 408-276-7471
901 San Antonio Road, USCA14-303
Palo Alto, CA 94303-4900



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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Patrick Luby]

Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
> 
> [ ] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
> [ ] I don't care
> [X] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
> 
> -jon
> 

I tend to agree with Jon on this issue. When I voted for a
java-servletapi-5 repository, I made the - I think reasonable -
assumption that the java-servletapi-5 repository would only contain the
JSR-154 code. After all, the java-servletapi-4 repository has, for as
long as I can remember, only contained javax.servlet.* classes.

My feeling is that the jakarta-tomcat-jasper code should have the
java-servletapi-[4|5] repositories as a dependency but no JSP code
should actually be checked into the java-serlvetapi-[4|5] repository. I
am OK with the jakarta-tomcat-jasper build can extract all of the
javax.servlet.* classes and put them into its own jar. However, JSR-154
requires no dependencies on JSR-152. Hence, putting JSP code in the
Servlet repository forces a dependency that should not be there.

Patrick
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Patrick Luby  Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Craig R. McClanahan]

On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:

> Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:34:18 -0700
> From: Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: Tomcat Developers List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: tomcat-dev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
>
> After JSR053 was formed and dependencies were added to the Servlet API from
> the JSP API, it became clear that this was a bad thing. It was ok to have
> the JSP API rely on the Servlet API, but not the other way around. The
> reason for this is because many people choose to use the Servlet API without
> wanting anything to do with JSP.
>

Just out of curiousity, where do you see any *API* level dependence of
Servlet 2.3 on JSP 1.2?  The closest thing I can see is the 
declaration in deployment descriptor DTD, but that has nothing to do with
any of the classes in the "javax.servlet" and "javax.servlet.http"
packages -- which contain zero such dependencies.

> As part of this realization, the next versions of JSP and the Servlet API
> were defined as separate JSR's in the JCP.
>
> http://jcp.org/jsr/detail/152.jsp
> http://jcp.org/jsr/detail/154.jsp
>
> A vote was cast on the tomcat-dev list that suggested a proposal for Tomcat
> 5.0. It was unclear to myself and others that this also included combining
> the CVS repositories for the Servlet API and the JSP API and disrespecting
> the fact that there are two separate JSR's.
>
> Therefore, I'm asking for another vote to split the CVS repositories to
> represent the split JSR's and adapt the build system of the JSP repository
> to have a dependency on the Servlet repository, but not the other way
> around. It is ok to also have the JSP build system generate a single .jar
> file with both the Servlet api and JSP api included.
>
> [ ] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
> [X] I don't care
> [ ] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
>

It seems kinda silly to waste the time to set this up, when it makes
absolutely no difference to whether we publish two JARs or not (which is
clearly the preference of many) but you're free to spend your time if you
want to ...

> -jon
>

Craig



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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Pier Fumagalli]

Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> [ ] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
> [ ] I don't care
> [X] I want the API's split into separate repo's.

Pier

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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's

[Andy Armstrong]

Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
> 
> After JSR053 was formed and dependencies were added to the Servlet API from
> the JSP API, it became clear that this was a bad thing. It was ok to have
> the JSP API rely on the Servlet API, but not the other way around. The
> reason for this is because many people choose to use the Servlet API without
> wanting anything to do with JSP.
> 
> As part of this realization, the next versions of JSP and the Servlet API
> were defined as separate JSR's in the JCP.
> 
> http://jcp.org/jsr/detail/152.jsp
> http://jcp.org/jsr/detail/154.jsp
> 
> A vote was cast on the tomcat-dev list that suggested a proposal for Tomcat
> 5.0. It was unclear to myself and others that this also included combining
> the CVS repositories for the Servlet API and the JSP API and disrespecting
> the fact that there are two separate JSR's.
> 
> Therefore, I'm asking for another vote to split the CVS repositories to
> represent the split JSR's and adapt the build system of the JSP repository
> to have a dependency on the Servlet repository, but not the other way
> around. It is ok to also have the JSP build system generate a single .jar
> file with both the Servlet api and JSP api included.
> 
> [ ] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
> [ ] I don't care
> [X] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
> 
> -jon
> 
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