Re: need help for deployment of unpack apps at Linux Tomcat 5.0

2005-08-01 Thread Mohd. Jeffry
I'm not using the war. This is an Unpacked deployment. 

On 8/1/05, Lintang JP [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Jeffry, are you trying to deploy a .war file ? maybe U should use the
 tomcat manager, usually it's located at
 http://localhost:8080/manager/html, U can deploy your .war
 files from that tools.
  
  
 
 
 On 8/1/05, Mohd. Jeffry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  I'm migrating form Tomcat 4.1.2 to Tomcat 5.0. In Tomcat 4.1.2 I
  usually put my unpacked apps at /opt/tomcat/webapps/myapp and it work.
  Now It doesn't work with the newly installed tomcat 5. Tomcat gives me
  404 error. The example that came with the package works fine. Any 
  thing that I miss?
  
  
  
  
  --
  Malaysian Java Online Community ( www.kampungjawa.cjb.net )
  
 
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  To unsubscribe, e-mail:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: need help for deployment of unpack apps at Linux Tomcat 5.0

2005-08-01 Thread Mohd. Jeffry
my application name is sd. This is my catalina.out

.
.
.
INFO: Processing Context configuration file URL
file:/etc/tomcat5/Catalina/localhost/balancer.xml
Aug 1, 2005 11:21:31 PM org.apache.catalina.core.StandardHostDeployer install
INFO: Installing web application at context path /sd from URL
file:/opt/tomcat5/webapps/sd
Aug 1, 2005 11:21:33 PM org.apache.commons.digester.Digester endElement
SEVERE: End event threw exception
java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException
at sun.reflect.GeneratedMethodAccessor46.invoke(Unknown Source)
at 
sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:25)
at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:324)
at 
org.apache.commons.beanutils.MethodUtils.invokeMethod(MethodUtils.java:252)
at 
org.apache.commons.digester.CallMethodRule.end(CallMethodRule.java:505)
.
.
.
.Aug 1, 2005 11:21:33 PM org.apache.catalina.startup.ContextConfig
applicationConfig
SEVERE: Parse error in application web.xml
java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Servlet mapping specifies an
unknown servlet name invoker
at 
org.apache.commons.digester.Digester.createSAXException(Digester.java:2540)
at 
org.apache.commons.digester.Digester.createSAXException(Digester.java:2566)
at org.apache.commons.digester.Digester.endElement(Digester.java:1061)
at org.apache.xerces.parsers.AbstractSAXParser.endElement(Unknown
Source)
at org.apache.xerces.impl.dtd.XMLDTDValidator.endNamespaceScope(Unknown
Source)
at org.apache.xerces.impl.dtd.XMLDTDValidator.handleEndElement(Unknown
Source)
at org.apache.xerces.impl.dtd.XMLDTDValidator.endElement(Unknown Source)
at 
org.apache.xerces.impl.XMLDocumentFragmentScannerImpl.scanEndElement(Unknown
Source)
at 
org.apache.xerces.impl.XMLDocumentFragmentScannerImpl$FragmentContentDispatcher.dispatch(Unknown
Source)
at 
org.apache.xerces.impl.XMLDocumentFragmentScannerImpl.scanDocument(Unknown
Source)
.
.
.
.



On 8/1/05, Lintang JP [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 any log file ?
 
 On 8/1/05, Mohd. Jeffry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I'm not using the war. This is an Unpacked deployment.
  
  On 8/1/05, Lintang JP [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Hi Jeffry, are you trying to deploy a .war file ? maybe U should use the
   tomcat manager, usually it's located at
   http://localhost:8080/manager/html, U can deploy your
 .war
   files from that tools.
  
  
  
  
   On 8/1/05, Mohd. Jeffry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
I'm migrating form Tomcat 4.1.2 to Tomcat 5.0. In Tomcat 4.1.2 I
usually put my unpacked apps at /opt/tomcat/webapps/myapp and it work.
Now It doesn't work with the newly installed tomcat 5. Tomcat gives me
404 error. The example that came with the package works fine. Any
thing that I miss?
   

   
   
--
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 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: need help for deployment of unpack apps at Linux Tomcat 5.0

2005-08-01 Thread Mohd. Jeffry
which one?  tomcat or my application web.xml ?

On 8/1/05, Lintang JP [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Servlet mapping specifies an
  unknown servlet name invoker
  
  Maybe you try to map a servlet name that's not declared yet on web.xml ?
  How about your web.xml file ?
 
 
 On 8/1/05, Mohd. Jeffry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  my application name is sd. This is my catalina.out
  
  .
  .
  .
  INFO: Processing Context configuration file URL
  file:/etc/tomcat5/Catalina/localhost/balancer.xml
  Aug 1, 2005 11:21:31 PM
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardHostDeployer install
  INFO: Installing web application at context path /sd from URL
  file:/opt/tomcat5/webapps/sd
  Aug 1, 2005 11:21:33 PM
 org.apache.commons.digester.Digester endElement
  SEVERE: End event threw exception
  java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException
  at
 sun.reflect.GeneratedMethodAccessor46.invoke(Unknown
 Source)
  at
 sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:25)
  at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:324)
  at
 org.apache.commons.beanutils.MethodUtils.invokeMethod(MethodUtils.java:252)
  at
 org.apache.commons.digester.CallMethodRule.end(CallMethodRule.java
 :505)
  .
  .
  .
  .Aug 1, 2005 11:21:33 PM
 org.apache.catalina.startup.ContextConfig
  applicationConfig
  SEVERE: Parse error in application web.xml
  java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Servlet mapping
 specifies an 
  unknown servlet name invoker
  at
 org.apache.commons.digester.Digester.createSAXException(Digester.java:2540)
  at
 org.apache.commons.digester.Digester.createSAXException(Digester.java:2566)
  at
 org.apache.commons.digester.Digester.endElement(Digester.java:1061)
  at
 org.apache.xerces.parsers.AbstractSAXParser.endElement(Unknown
  Source)
  at
 org.apache.xerces.impl.dtd.XMLDTDValidator.endNamespaceScope
 (Unknown
  Source)
  at
 org.apache.xerces.impl.dtd.XMLDTDValidator.handleEndElement(Unknown
  Source)
  at
 org.apache.xerces.impl.dtd.XMLDTDValidator.endElement(Unknown
 Source)
  at
 org.apache.xerces.impl.XMLDocumentFragmentScannerImpl.scanEndElement
 (Unknown
  Source)
  at
 org.apache.xerces.impl.XMLDocumentFragmentScannerImpl$FragmentContentDispatcher.dispatch(Unknown
  Source)
  at
 org.apache.xerces.impl.XMLDocumentFragmentScannerImpl.scanDocument
 (Unknown
  Source)
  .
  .
  .
  .
  
  
  
  On 8/1/05, Lintang JP [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   any log file ?
  
   On 8/1/05, Mohd. Jeffry  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm not using the war. This is an Unpacked deployment.
   
On 8/1/05, Lintang JP  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Jeffry, are you trying to deploy a .war file ? maybe U should use
 the
 tomcat manager, usually it's located at
 http://localhost:8080/manager/html, U can deploy
 your
   .war
 files from that tools.




 On 8/1/05, Mohd. Jeffry  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I'm migrating form Tomcat 4.1.2 to Tomcat 5.0. In Tomcat 4.1.2 I
  usually put my unpacked apps at /opt/tomcat/webapps/myapp and it
 work. 
  Now It doesn't work with the newly installed tomcat 5. Tomcat
 gives me
  404 error. The example that came with the package works fine. Any
  thing that I miss? 
 
 
 
 
  --
  Malaysian Java Online Community ( www.kampungjawa.cjb.net )
 
 

  
 -
  To unsubscribe, e-mail:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  For additional commands, e-mail:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
 



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Re: need help for deployment of unpack apps at Linux Tomcat 5.0

2005-08-01 Thread Mohd. Jeffry
I don't think its a good idea to post it here. The files got thousands
of lines.. perhaps there are specific parts that I should be look in
to?

On 8/1/05, Lintang JP [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 you app.specific web.xml, at WEB-INF
 
 
 On 8/1/05, Mohd. Jeffry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  which one?  tomcat or my application web.xml ?
  
  On 8/1/05, Lintang JP [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Servlet mapping specifies an
unknown servlet name invoker 
  
Maybe you try to map a servlet name that's not declared yet on web.xml
 ?
How about your web.xml file ?
  
  
   On 8/1/05, Mohd. Jeffry [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
   
my application name is sd. This is my catalina.out
   
.
.
.
INFO: Processing Context configuration file URL
file:/etc/tomcat5/Catalina/localhost/balancer.xml 
Aug 1, 2005 11:21:31 PM
   org.apache.catalina.core.StandardHostDeployer install
INFO: Installing web application at context path /sd from URL
file:/opt/tomcat5/webapps/sd
Aug 1, 2005 11:21:33 PM 
   org.apache.commons.digester.Digester endElement
SEVERE: End event threw exception
java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException
at
   sun.reflect.GeneratedMethodAccessor46.invoke (Unknown
   Source)
at
  
 sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:25)
at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:324)
at 
  
 org.apache.commons.beanutils.MethodUtils.invokeMethod(MethodUtils.java:252)
at
  
 org.apache.commons.digester.CallMethodRule.end(CallMethodRule.java
   :505)
.
. 
.
.Aug 1, 2005 11:21:33 PM
   org.apache.catalina.startup.ContextConfig
applicationConfig
SEVERE: Parse error in application web.xml
java.lang.IllegalArgumentException : Servlet mapping
   specifies an
unknown servlet name invoker
at
  
 org.apache.commons.digester.Digester.createSAXException(Digester.java:2540)
at
  
 org.apache.commons.digester.Digester.createSAXException(Digester.java:2566)
at
  
 org.apache.commons.digester.Digester.endElement(Digester.java:1061)
at
   org.apache.xerces.parsers.AbstractSAXParser.endElement
 (Unknown
Source)
at
  
 org.apache.xerces.impl.dtd.XMLDTDValidator.endNamespaceScope
   (Unknown
Source)
at
  
 org.apache.xerces.impl.dtd.XMLDTDValidator.handleEndElement
 (Unknown
Source)
at
  
 org.apache.xerces.impl.dtd.XMLDTDValidator.endElement(Unknown
   Source)
at
  
 org.apache.xerces.impl.XMLDocumentFragmentScannerImpl.scanEndElement
   (Unknown
Source)
at
  
 org.apache.xerces.impl.XMLDocumentFragmentScannerImpl$FragmentContentDispatcher.dispatch(Unknown
Source)
at
  
 org.apache.xerces.impl.XMLDocumentFragmentScannerImpl.scanDocument
   (Unknown
Source)
.
.
.
.
   
   
   
On 8/1/05, Lintang JP  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 any log file ?

 On 8/1/05, Mohd. Jeffry  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
  I'm not using the war. This is an Unpacked deployment.
 
  On 8/1/05, Lintang JP  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
   Hi Jeffry, are you trying to deploy a .war file ? maybe U should
 use
   the
   tomcat manager, usually it's located at
   http://localhost:8080/manager/html, U can
 deploy
   your
 .war
   files from that tools.
  
   
  
  
   On 8/1/05, Mohd. Jeffry  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
I'm migrating form Tomcat 4.1.2 to Tomcat 5.0. In Tomcat 4.1.2
 I
usually put my unpacked apps at /opt/tomcat/webapps/myapp and
 it
   work.
Now It doesn't work with the newly installed tomcat 5. Tomcat 
   gives me
404 error. The example that came with the package works fine.
 Any
thing that I miss?
   

   
   
--
Malaysian Java Online Community ( www.kampungjawa.cjb.net )
   
   
  

  
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   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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need help for deployment of unpack apps at Linux Tomcat 5.0

2005-07-31 Thread Mohd. Jeffry
I'm migrating form Tomcat 4.1.2 to Tomcat 5.0. In Tomcat 4.1.2 I
usually put my unpacked apps at /opt/tomcat/webapps/myapp and it work.
Now It doesn't work with the newly installed tomcat 5. Tomcat gives me
404 error. The example that came with the package works fine. Any
thing that I miss?




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Re: Why I got multiple/many instance of tomcat + jvm right after I've started tomcat? ( on Red Hat Linux E 3 )

2005-06-08 Thread Mohd. Jeffry
All servers are using the same kernel :-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] admin]$ uname -a
Linux iedb1 2.4.21-9.0.1.ELsmp #1 SMP Mon Feb 9 22:26:51 EST 2004 i686
i686 i386 GNU/Linux

On 6/8/05, Anto Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 6/7/05, Mohd. Jeffry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Dear All,
 
  I got 6 servers running rhel3 and tomcat 4.1.27. One of this servers
  its tomcat is giving so many instance of tomcat and jvm but not for
  other server. They are running with the same configuration as far as
  tomcat and jvm is concern. Any thing else did I miss?
 
 
 I am not sure whether it is because of the NPTL threading
 implementation in newer kernels.
 
 --
 rgds
 Anto Paul


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Why I got multiple/many instance of tomcat + jvm right after I've started tomcat? ( on Red Hat Linux E 3 )

2005-06-07 Thread Mohd. Jeffry
Dear All,

I got 6 servers running rhel3 and tomcat 4.1.27. One of this servers
its tomcat is giving so many instance of tomcat and jvm but not for
other server. They are running with the same configuration as far as
tomcat and jvm is concern. Any thing else did I miss?

This is snippet of my server.xml for all server for Connector 
 
Connector className=org.apache.coyote.tomcat4.CoyoteConnector
   port=80 minProcessors=5 maxProcessors=100
   enableLookups=false redirectPort=8443
   acceptCount=10 debug=0 connectionTimeout=2
   useURIValidationHack=false disableUploadTimeout=true /


A snippet of ps -aux | grep tomcat on the problematic server

[EMAIL PROTECTED] salmonprops]# ps aux | grep tomcat
root  1617  0.0  0.0  1604  508 pts/0S14:12   0:00
/usr/local/tomcat/bin/wrapper wrapper.conf
root  1619  0.0  2.1 1278556 266056 pts/0 S   14:12   0:00
/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.2_02/bin/java -server
-Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/local/tomcat/common/endorsed
-Dcatalina.base=/usr/local/tomcat -Dcatalina.home=/usr/local/tomcat
-Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/local/tomcat/temp -Dbuild.compiler.emacs=true
-Djava.awt.headless=true
root  1620  0.0  2.1 1278556 266056 pts/0 S   14:12   0:00
/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.2_02/bin/java -server
-Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/local/tomcat/common/endorsed
-Dcatalina.base=/usr/local/tomcat -Dcatalina.home=/usr/local/tomcat
-Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/local/tomcat/temp -Dbuild.compiler.emacs=true
-Djava.awt.headless=true
root  1621  0.0  2.1 1278556 266056 pts/0 S   14:12   0:00
/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.2_02/bin/java -server
-Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/local/tomcat/common/endorsed
-Dcatalina.base=/usr/local/tomcat -Dcatalina.home=/usr/local/tomcat
-Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/local/tomcat/temp -Dbuild.compiler.emacs=true
-Djava.awt.headless=true
root  1622  0.0  2.1 1278556 266056 pts/0 S   14:12   0:00
/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.2_02/bin/java -server
-Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/local/tomcat/common/endorsed
-Dcatalina.base=/usr/local/tomcat -Dcatalina.home=/usr/local/tomcat
-Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/local/tomcat/temp -Dbuild.compiler.emacs=true
-Djava.awt.headless=true
root  1623  0.0  2.1 1278556 266056 pts/0 S   14:12   0:00
/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.2_02/bin/java -server
-Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/local/tomcat/common/endorsed
-Dcatalina.base=/usr/local/tomcat -Dcatalina.home=/usr/local/tomcat
-Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/local/tomcat/temp -Dbuild.compiler.emacs=true
-Djava.awt.headless=true
root  1624  0.0  2.1 1278556 266056 pts/0 S   14:12   0:00
/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.2_02/bin/java -server
-Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/local/tomcat/common/endorsed
-Dcatalina.base=/usr/local/tomcat -Dcatalina.home=/usr/local/tomcat
-Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/local/tomcat/temp -Dbuild.compiler.emacs=true
-Djava.awt.headless=true
root  1625  0.0  2.1 1278556 266056 pts/0 S   14:12   0:00
/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.2_02/bin/java -server
-Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/local/tomcat/common/endorsed
-Dcatalina.base=/usr/local/tomcat -Dcatalina.home=/usr/local/tomcat
-Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/local/tomcat/temp -Dbuild.compiler.emacs=true
-Djava.awt.headless=true
root  1626  1.4  2.1 1278556 266056 pts/0 S   14:12   0:20
/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.2_02/bin/java -server
-Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/local/tomcat/common/endorsed
-Dcatalina.base=/usr/local/tomcat -Dcatalina.home=/usr/local/tomcat
-Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/local/tomcat/temp -Dbuild.compiler.emacs=true
-Djava.awt.headless=true
root  1627  1.2  2.1 1278556 266056 pts/0 S   14:12   0:17
/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.2_02/bin/java -server
-Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/local/tomcat/common/endorsed
-Dcatalina.base=/usr/local/tomcat -Dcatalina.home=/usr/local/tomcat
-Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/local/tomcat/temp -Dbuild.compiler.emacs=true
-Djava.awt.headless=true
root  1628  0.0  2.1 1278556 266056 pts/0 S   14:12   0:00
/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.2_02/bin/java -server
-Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/local/tomcat/common/endorsed
-Dcatalina.base=/usr/local/tomcat -Dcatalina.home=/usr/local/tomcat
-Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/local/tomcat/temp -Dbuild.compiler.emacs=true
-Djava.awt.headless=true
root  1629  0.0  2.1 1278556 266056 pts/0 S   14:12   0:00
/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.2_02/bin/java -server
-Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/local/tomcat/common/endorsed
-Dcatalina.base=/usr/local/tomcat -Dcatalina.home=/usr/local/tomcat
-Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/local/tomcat/temp -Dbuild.compiler.emacs=true
-Djava.awt.headless=true
root  1630  0.0  2.1 1278556 266056 pts/0 S   14:12   0:00
/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.2_02/bin/java -server
-Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/local/tomcat/common/endorsed
-Dcatalina.base=/usr/local/tomcat -Dcatalina.home=/usr/local/tomcat
-Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/local/tomcat/temp -Dbuild.compiler.emacs=true
-Djava.awt.headless=true
root  1632  0.2  2.1 1278556 266056 pts/0 S   14:12   0:02
/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.2_02/bin/java -server
-Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/local/tomcat/common/endorsed
-Dcatalina.base=/usr/local/tomcat -Dcatalina.home=/usr/local/tomcat
-Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/local/tomcat/temp -Dbuild.compiler.emacs=true

How to limit session ? PersistentManager ?

2005-05-10 Thread Mohd. Jeffry
To to limit session in tomcat 4.1 ?  I've found this in my server.xml
 !--
  Manager className=org.apache.catalina.session.PersistentManager
  debug=0
  saveOnRestart=true
  maxActiveSessions=-1
  minIdleSwap=-1
  maxIdleSwap=-1
  maxIdleBackup=-1
Store className=org.apache.catalina.session.FileStore/
  /Manager
  --

If I uncomment this and put the maxActiveSessions=100, would that
limit the connection 100 sessions?

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can I develop dan deploy myapps as regular user at linux?

2005-02-22 Thread Mohd. Jeffry
Hi, I'm pretty new with tomcat, 1 month to be exect. So what are the
standart operating procedure to develop and deploy at linux
environtment? For the time being this is what I do and it's kinda
troublesome.

1. compile my app at /home/devel/myapps
2. su as root and move it to /usr/local/tomcat/webapps/myapps
3. and chown myapps for tomcat:tomcat.
4. and restart tomcat

If possible I don't want to use any IDE tools for time being because I
want to focus on servlet/jsp and not on IDE.

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Re: Tomcat Startup/Shutdown and mod_jk Issues

2005-01-18 Thread Mohd. Jeffry
It seems like something is hogging the port 8080. Did you check wether
there is something listening on port 8080 before you start your new
tomcat?


On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:22:12 -0800, David Rickard
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 System: SunOS 5.9 Generic_117171-13 sun4u sparc SUNW,Sun-Fire-V440
 Apache: 2.0.52
 Tomcat: 5.5.4
 Connector: jk-1.2.6
 Java: JDK 1.5.0.01
 
 We're attempting an upgrade from Tomcat 4.1.31 to 5.5.4; we are using JK 1
 as a connector to Apache (due to prior experience and relative simplicity);
 We are encountering three issues:
 1) During start-up, Tomcat throws the following error messages:
 
 java.lang.NoSuchMethodError:
 org.apache.naming.NamingContextEnumeration.init(Ljava/util/Iterator;)V [
 for each application it attempts to deploy]
 
 SEVERE: Catalina.start:
 LifecycleException:  Protocol handler start failed: java.net.BindException:
 Address already in use:8080
 [presumably from Tomcat not releasing 8080 properly during previous
 start-up/shut-down cycles]
 
 2) During shut-down, Tomcat throws the following error:
 SEVERE: Protocol handler pause failed
 java.lang.NullPointerException
  at org.apache.jk.server.JkMain.pause(JkMain.java:655)
 
 3) The mod_jk.conf file does not build; its entire contents are:
 ## Auto generated on Tue Jan 18 16:24:18 PST 2005##
 
 IfModule !mod_jk.c
LoadModule jk_module
 /usr/apache/modules/jakarta-tomcat-connectors-jk-1.2.6-solaris8-sparc-apache-2.0.43_
 native.so
 /IfModule
 
 JkWorkersFile /var/apache/tomcat/conf/jk/workers.properties
 JkLogFile /var/apache/tomcat/logs/mod_jk.log
 
 JkLogLevel emerg
 
 VirtualHost spinach.techbooks.com
  ServerName spinach.techbooks.com
 /VirtualHost
 
 [presumably this is from applications not loading during start-up; but
 could it be from some other cause?]
 
 --
 
 David Rickard
 Software Engineer
 
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