Re: RTFM and Ettiquette was: MY ATTITUDE
Paul Brinkley wrote: The solution that causes the least amount of distress to all parties (that I can think of) is to teach netiquette to Internet newcomers in some hard-to-avoid location. [...] Unfortunately, this is a culture change, and hence it will take a while, possibly as much as a generation (25 years) or more. Those of you with kids: start now... And those of you who refuse to do some legwork before posting to the list, please don't have kids. Erik - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RTFM and Ettiquette was: MY ATTITUDE
At 05:59 PM 2/13/2003 -0800, Jeff Wishnie wrote: Although I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment--do your homework before asking for help--lets not forget that given the disorganized state of most opensource documentation, being pointed to the proper docs helps a lot. Specifically, when someone asks a question that is answered in some docs, a useful answer would be something like: You'll find the web.xml format explained in Sun's Servlet 2.3 spec, available at java.sun.com Replying Yo, just, RTFM is rude and not helpful to anyone. I'm pretty new to Tomcat as well and appreciate being pointed to the place where I can find an answer as much as being given told an answer directly. Having to manually repost a link to the documentation over and over again gets tiresome. The clever list member will quickly make a handy list of links to post automatically in response, but still has to go through the trouble of posting it repeatedly, and it also clutters the list. The solution that causes the least amount of distress to all parties (that I can think of) is to teach netiquette to Internet newcomers in some hard-to-avoid location. It can be physical (school courses, savvy parents, etc.) or virtual (a website, or a tutorial in an Internet provider's software package). That netiquette must at the very least instruct newcomers how to find online answers to a question: 1. Locate an official homepage for the topic, using a web search engine. 2a. Search archives of an official discussion forum, mailing list, Usenet group, etc. for the answer. 2b. Search above for an FAQ. 3. Search the web in general. 4. Post to a forum, asking the question, asking for an FAQ if one couldn't be found by now, being polite and specific. These should be done in the order given (2a and 2b can be in either order as you like). #4 absolutely, positively should be a last-ditch option. This is the only way we are going to properly leverage computer automation, until NLU is achieved; going to 4 before 1, 2, or 3 in effect requires everyone to have their own personal research assistant, which is ludicrously impractical in the long run. Unfortunately, this is a culture change, and hence it will take a while, possibly as much as a generation (25 years) or more. Those of you with kids: start now... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MY ATTITUDE
To whom were u referring to anyway, Mike And just go away, preferably never to return me perhaps??? If so, I thought that all of the damned *flaming* that WAS going on in this newsgroup had ceased forever, never to raise its' ugly head ever again, but i see that I was quite wrong!
RE: MY ATTITUDE
Ron, was a rather nasty epithet to me Go F**ck yourself!!!? If so, I will also tell you, as I just now told another gentleman [sic] in our group that I solemnly thought and hoped so much that the flaming of one another had ceased forever in our little newsgroup. i guess that just plain basic human nature being what it sadly is, this i have come to expect from certain other members of our group. [sigh!]
RE: MY ATTITUDE
Wow, and I defended this guy ? I truly appoligize for that tomcat users ! I was WRONG -Original Message- From: Steve Burrus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 3:24 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: RE: MY ATTITUDE Ron, was a rather nasty epithet to me Go F**ck yourself!!!? If so, I will also tell you, as I just now told another gentleman [sic] in our group that I solemnly thought and hoped so much that the flaming of one another had ceased forever in our little newsgroup. i guess that just plain basic human nature being what it sadly is, this i have come to expect from certain other members of our group. [sigh!] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MY ATTITUDE
Why in the hell do you think that u were wrong in *defending* me in this newsgroup anyway jsp?! What did I suddenly say, in my last posting, that has evoked this kind of a negative attitude from you? I just don't get it or understand you for a moment. Oh well, I really haven't caught on to where others in our group are coming from psychologically either, I must say. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MY ATTITUDE
Thanx jsp. I THINK that you were defending my honor :-) in telling someone else that I really don't need at all to RTFM! Ya, you're right that I don't need to read the manual when there is ready and plentiful help/assistance for me within the ranks of this Tomcat group of ours'.
RE: MY ATTITUDE
Thanx jsp. I THINK that you were defending my honor :-) in telling someone else that I really don't need at all to RTFM! Ya, you're right that I don't need to read the manual when there is ready and plentiful help/assistance for me within the ranks of this Tomcat group of ours'. Why is anyone still posting on this thread! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MY ATTITUDE
David, sorry to *offend* u with additional postings on this thread!!! you're right, this threAd has sort of played itself out, and I will not post to this thread ever again, although I cannot control what others may wanna do.
RE: MY ATTITUDE
It is amusing and breaks the tedium of the day? -Original Message- From: David Durst [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 4:13 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: MY ATTITUDE Thanx jsp. I THINK that you were defending my honor :-) in telling someone else that I really don't need at all to RTFM! Ya, you're right that I don't need to read the manual when there is ready and plentiful help/assistance for me within the ranks of this Tomcat group of ours'. Why is anyone still posting on this thread! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MY ATTITUDE
LOL...is this fellow serious? You think other people should have to do the reading for you? Wow, this group tolerates a lot more ridiculous behavior than most tech groups I read. Thanx jsp. I THINK that you were defending my honor :-) in telling someone else that I really don't need at all to RTFM! Ya, you're right that I don't need to read the manual when there is ready and plentiful help/assistance for me within the ranks of this Tomcat group of ours'. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MY ATTITUDE
I think he found one of those EARN $$$ from home with ur personal computer ads that is paying him $$$ for every phrase he puts in quotes. My question is, What is he doing with the money, since he's obviously not needing it to buy clues, having been graciously given many more than his fair share of excellent ones already?. Did he use the money to buy a membership in our little newsgroup from a used bridge salesman? Wendell Holmes -Original Message- From: Barley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 2:59 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: MY ATTITUDE LOL...is this fellow serious? You think other people should have to do the reading for you? Wow, this group tolerates a lot more ridiculous behavior than most tech groups I read. Thanx jsp. I THINK that you were defending my honor :-) in telling someone else that I really don't need at all to RTFM! Ya, you're right that I don't need to read the manual when there is ready and plentiful help/assistance for me within the ranks of this Tomcat group of ours'. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MY ATTITUDE
Lemme clarify my earlier post for you Barley!! I only meant that there should be some kind of a nice combination of BOTH RTFMing AND getting/receiving useful advice from others in our newsgroup who have vastly more experience and knowledge with using Tomcat than i do, so far. Can you somehow understand that or not? :)
Re: MY ATTITUDE
You lied...you said your previous post was the last on this topic. Please just stop. Kenny - Original Message - From: Steve Burrus [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tomcat Users List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 4:44 PM Subject: Re: MY ATTITUDE Lemme clarify my earlier post for you Barley!! I only meant that there should be some kind of a nice combination of BOTH RTFMing AND getting/receiving useful advice from others in our newsgroup who have vastly more experience and knowledge with using Tomcat than i do, so far. Can you somehow understand that or not? :) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MY ATTITUDE
Listen, I said that it would PROBABLY be the last/final post on this thread!!! I didn't make any promises at all to you or anyone else that it would absolutely be the last one. Go back please and read that particular posting in question. People in this group just wanna jump on my back for the tiniest little reason sometimes.
RE: MY ATTITUDE
I think you just burnt your last chance for help on this list. sad -Original Message- From: Steve Burrus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 3:02 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: MY ATTITUDE Listen, I said that it would PROBABLY be the last/final post on this thread!!! I didn't make any promises at all to you or anyone else that it would absolutely be the last one. Go back please and read that particular posting in question. People in this group just wanna jump on my back for the tiniest little reason sometimes. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MY ATTITUDE
Steve, It is possible you have not been given the right sort of help. Here is a useful JSP hyperlink: http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual_home/sec7/89.jsp Please read the short section on the Narcissistic Personality. I quote: They feel they're entitled to have their needs attended to without waiting, so they exploit others, whose needs or beliefs are deemed to be less important. Their behavior is usually offensive to others, who view them as being self-centered, arrogant, or selfish. Wilson - Original Message - From: Steve Burrus [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tomcat Users List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 11:01 PM Subject: Re: MY ATTITUDE Listen, I said that it would PROBABLY be the last/final post on this thread!!! I didn't make any promises at all to you or anyone else that it would absolutely be the last one. Go back please and read that particular posting in question. People in this group just wanna jump on my back for the tiniest little reason sometimes. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MY ATTITUDE
I know I'm now contributing, but I can't help but sit here with this big ol' grin on my face wondering what it will take to make this stop. Probably the sooner we all stop responding to these types of threads, the sooner the individual threads will stop. (I uses threads because I doubt these posts will every truly stop.) --Justin -Original Message- From: Kenny G. Dubuisson, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 5:44 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: MY ATTITUDE You lied...you said your previous post was the last on this topic. Please just stop. Kenny - Original Message - From: Steve Burrus [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tomcat Users List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 4:44 PM Subject: Re: MY ATTITUDE Lemme clarify my earlier post for you Barley!! I only meant that there should be some kind of a nice combination of BOTH RTFMing AND getting/receiving useful advice from others in our newsgroup who have vastly more experience and knowledge with using Tomcat than i do, so far. Can you somehow understand that or not? :) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MY ATTITUDE
No way. RTFM. The whole reason we have searchable archives, documentation, FAQs and all the rest is so that you the user can do some of the legwork *before* asking questions. I do agree with you that it can be difficult to do your own legwork...I'm new to Tomcat myself and have been reading docs, FAQs, books and posts for what feels like a week straight. It's a total pain in the ass. But that doesn't mean that the folks who have already been through it should hold my hand and walk me through it. Go pay someone for support if that's what you want. Believe me, with most open-source projects, you'll find much less sympathy than you have here. Gregg Lemme clarify my earlier post for you Barley!! I only meant that there should be some kind of a nice combination of BOTH RTFMing AND getting/receiving useful advice from others in our newsgroup who have vastly more experience and knowledge with using Tomcat than i do, so far. Can you somehow understand that or not? :) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MY ATTITUDE
Steve, GFYYA-H - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MY ATTITUDE
I couldn't agree more. Rosdi. - Original Message - From: Barley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tomcat Users List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 8:20 AM Subject: Re: MY ATTITUDE No way. RTFM. The whole reason we have searchable archives, documentation, FAQs and all the rest is so that you the user can do some of the legwork *before* asking questions. I do agree with you that it can be difficult to do your own legwork...I'm new to Tomcat myself and have been reading docs, FAQs, books and posts for what feels like a week straight. It's a total pain in the ass. But that doesn't mean that the folks who have already been through it should hold my hand and walk me through it. Go pay someone for support if that's what you want. Believe me, with most open-source projects, you'll find much less sympathy than you have here. Gregg Lemme clarify my earlier post for you Barley!! I only meant that there should be some kind of a nice combination of BOTH RTFMing AND getting/receiving useful advice from others in our newsgroup who have vastly more experience and knowledge with using Tomcat than i do, so far. Can you somehow understand that or not? :) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RTFM and Ettiquette was: MY ATTITUDE
Although I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment--do your homework before asking for help--lets not forget that given the disorganized state of most opensource documentation, being pointed to the proper docs helps a lot. Specifically, when someone asks a question that is answered in some docs, a useful answer would be something like: You'll find the web.xml format explained in Sun's Servlet 2.3 spec, available at java.sun.com Replying Yo, just, RTFM is rude and not helpful to anyone. I'm pretty new to Tomcat as well and appreciate being pointed to the place where I can find an answer as much as being given told an answer directly. cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: Rosdi bin Kasim [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tomcat Users List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 5:30 PM Subject: Re: MY ATTITUDE I couldn't agree more. Rosdi. - Original Message - From: Barley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tomcat Users List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 8:20 AM Subject: Re: MY ATTITUDE No way. RTFM. The whole reason we have searchable archives, documentation, FAQs and all the rest is so that you the user can do some of the legwork *before* asking questions. I do agree with you that it can be difficult to do your own legwork...I'm new to Tomcat myself and have been reading docs, FAQs, books and posts for what feels like a week straight. It's a total pain in the ass. But that doesn't mean that the folks who have already been through it should hold my hand and walk me through it. Go pay someone for support if that's what you want. Believe me, with most open-source projects, you'll find much less sympathy than you have here. Gregg Lemme clarify my earlier post for you Barley!! I only meant that there should be some kind of a nice combination of BOTH RTFMing AND getting/receiving useful advice from others in our newsgroup who have vastly more experience and knowledge with using Tomcat than i do, so far. Can you somehow understand that or not? :) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MY ATTITUDE
And just go away, preferably never to return. --mikej -=- mike jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Kenny G. Dubuisson, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 2:44 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: MY ATTITUDE You lied...you said your previous post was the last on this topic. Please just stop. Kenny - Original Message - From: Steve Burrus [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tomcat Users List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 4:44 PM Subject: Re: MY ATTITUDE Lemme clarify my earlier post for you Barley!! I only meant that there should be some kind of a nice combination of BOTH RTFMing AND getting/receiving useful advice from others in our newsgroup who have vastly more experience and knowledge with using Tomcat than i do, so far. Can you somehow understand that or not? :) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MY ATTITUDE
RTFM means Read the friggin' manual. It is used in almost any place My oh my..., I thought it means Read The Fine Manual..., man I was mislead - Original Message - From: Erik Price [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tomcat Users List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 7:25 AM Subject: Re: MY ATTITUDE Hi Steve, RTFM means Read the friggin' manual. It is used in almost any place where a person is asking a question when they could have read a document instead. The idea is that nobody has extra time sitting around to waste re-explaining things that have been explained perfectly well elsewhere. In your case, I think what you ought to read is the manual of mailing list etiquette. At first I thought you were a joker or someone who found it amusing to post the same questions again and again with strange exclamation points () and colloquialisms such as Capiche. I thought you were being rude, but I think now I realize that you just don't know any better. You are getting fewer answers every day because more and more people have set up their email clients to filter out your posts. It has become tiresome to read the same questions again and again, when others have pointed you to perfectly fine tutorials explaining how to go about it. If these tutorials are not a good enough explanation, then perhaps you ought to step down a notch to something more basic. Configuring Tomcat and writing JSP/servlet webapps is not easy, and requires that you understand the fundamentals of the Java language. There are dozens of free books with thousands of pages dedicated to this topic, a good one is Thinking in Java at http://www.mindview.net/ . A specialized mailing list like this one is dedicated to answering questions and discussing issues surrounding Tomcat, not explaining the syntax of a switch statement. Don't take that as an insult, I'm just explaining how it is. Sun offers an excellent forum for programmers who are new to Java at http://forum.java.sun.com/forum.jsp?forum=54 . But the problem at hand isn't even really whether or not this is the appropriate mailing list for you. You are not getting much help because you simply do not know the protocol for asking questions on a mailing list. It is not appropriate to discuss anything but Tomcat, or Tomcat-related issues on this list. Not switch statements. Not personal issues regarding your social development. People will forgive you if you make a mistake in this regard once in a while. But this has become a daily affair. I am going to give you one last hyperlink, and I really hope that you click it and read the web page it takes you to. Others have already given you this, and I can only assume that you haven't found time to read it yet. But please read this document. It will take you all of fifteen minutes. If you don't, or if you read it but choose not to listen, then no one on any mailing list is going to help you, as more and more people tune you out with email filters. The document is called How to Ask Questions the Smart Way, and is available at http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html . It is the friggin' manual for all mailing lists. RTFM. Erik Steve Burrus wrote: Matthew, please forgive my *dumb naivety*, but what does RTFM mean,i.e., what does it stand for exactly anyway? I hope that this doesn't sound like some kind of a rant [again], but it seems like for a long time now people in this newsgroup have ragging on me! Capiche?! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MY ATTITUDE
Wow, I thought the idea was to help people out that just dont get it? Not tell someone READ THE FRIGIN MANUAL. What kind of crap is that? Some people dont just GET the obvious. You dont have time to answer a dumb question ?? SO WHY DO YOU HAVE TIME TO WHINE AND CRY FOR 8 PARAGRAPHS, I GOT BETTER THINGS TO DO THAN READ THAT DRIVEL !!! Adios -Original Message- From: Rosdi bin Kasim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 6:54 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: MY ATTITUDE RTFM means Read the friggin' manual. It is used in almost any place My oh my..., I thought it means Read The Fine Manual..., man I was mislead - Original Message - From: Erik Price [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tomcat Users List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 7:25 AM Subject: Re: MY ATTITUDE Hi Steve, RTFM means Read the friggin' manual. It is used in almost any place where a person is asking a question when they could have read a document instead. The idea is that nobody has extra time sitting around to waste re-explaining things that have been explained perfectly well elsewhere. In your case, I think what you ought to read is the manual of mailing list etiquette. At first I thought you were a joker or someone who found it amusing to post the same questions again and again with strange exclamation points () and colloquialisms such as Capiche. I thought you were being rude, but I think now I realize that you just don't know any better. You are getting fewer answers every day because more and more people have set up their email clients to filter out your posts. It has become tiresome to read the same questions again and again, when others have pointed you to perfectly fine tutorials explaining how to go about it. If these tutorials are not a good enough explanation, then perhaps you ought to step down a notch to something more basic. Configuring Tomcat and writing JSP/servlet webapps is not easy, and requires that you understand the fundamentals of the Java language. There are dozens of free books with thousands of pages dedicated to this topic, a good one is Thinking in Java at http://www.mindview.net/ . A specialized mailing list like this one is dedicated to answering questions and discussing issues surrounding Tomcat, not explaining the syntax of a switch statement. Don't take that as an insult, I'm just explaining how it is. Sun offers an excellent forum for programmers who are new to Java at http://forum.java.sun.com/forum.jsp?forum=54 . But the problem at hand isn't even really whether or not this is the appropriate mailing list for you. You are not getting much help because you simply do not know the protocol for asking questions on a mailing list. It is not appropriate to discuss anything but Tomcat, or Tomcat-related issues on this list. Not switch statements. Not personal issues regarding your social development. People will forgive you if you make a mistake in this regard once in a while. But this has become a daily affair. I am going to give you one last hyperlink, and I really hope that you click it and read the web page it takes you to. Others have already given you this, and I can only assume that you haven't found time to read it yet. But please read this document. It will take you all of fifteen minutes. If you don't, or if you read it but choose not to listen, then no one on any mailing list is going to help you, as more and more people tune you out with email filters. The document is called How to Ask Questions the Smart Way, and is available at http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html . It is the friggin' manual for all mailing lists. RTFM. Erik Steve Burrus wrote: Matthew, please forgive my *dumb naivety*, but what does RTFM mean,i.e., what does it stand for exactly anyway? I hope that this doesn't sound like some kind of a rant [again], but it seems like for a long time now people in this newsgroup have ragging on me! Capiche?! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MY ATTITUDE
This is why, if you want to get answers to your questions, you have to make it clear in your post that you have done your homework, that you have tried the usual resources, that you are not asking for the answer to be spoonfed to you. Just as a side comment, not everyone is aware of the usual resources in that documentation is sometimes obfuscated in that when you are looking for a specific answer the details are buried somewhere on another document you don't even know you should be reading. So some people (Including myself) here should propabably (If time allowing) just point people w/ these questions to the correct documentation instead of just ignoring. On another side note we as HELPERS should also be aware of the mentality of the beginer wanting to ask a REAL person the question (I know its the lazy mans way) but some people actually learn this way. And since I have not read any of the initial postings regarding this thread I will digress from saying anything further and making myself look like a complete moron :). - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MY ATTITUDE
Steve, Don't go away mad, just go away! Jim -Original Message- From: Steve Burrus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 9:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: MY ATTITUDE This might be just enough from me to get me permanently kicked off of this newsgroup (are you reading this, Craig R. McClanahan??) I don't really care! I just had to get off of my chest a thing or two, and that is that just about all of you people out there in this newsgroup seem to have in for me in a really big way!! You make me feel like I should first drop dead and then possibly--if I could--drop off of the face of this Earth!! Maybe I should consult a psychologist/psychiatrist about this, but I have felt for a long time in my life that nobody in the whole wide world knows or wants to know that I AM ALIVE AT ALL. I dare anyone to respond to me WITHOUT saying to me the same old things in the way of an admonition that I have certainly heard so much of from so many of u recently. Thank You - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MY ATTITUDE
I think you really need to chill.. When someone tells you to RTFM, they are not being rude... There are a number of paper written on web manners etc.. RTFM is not considered rude. People want to help, but you have to want to help yourself. Cheers Mat PS: Im not having a go -Original Message- From: Steve Burrus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 9:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: MY ATTITUDE This might be just enough from me to get me permanently kicked off of this newsgroup (are you reading this, Craig R. McClanahan??) I don't really care! I just had to get off of my chest a thing or two, and that is that just about all of you people out there in this newsgroup seem to have in for me in a really big way!! You make me feel like I should first drop dead and then possibly--if I could--drop off of the face of this Earth!! Maybe I should consult a psychologist/psychiatrist about this, but I have felt for a long time in my life that nobody in the whole wide world knows or wants to know that I AM ALIVE AT ALL. I dare anyone to respond to me WITHOUT saying to me the same old things in the way of an admonition that I have certainly heard so much of from so many of u recently. Thank You - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MY ATTITUDE
Why don't all of you go join a chatroom as this is REALLY getting boring now! -Original Message- From: Matthew Hattersley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 11 February 2003 03:39 To: 'Tomcat Users List' Subject: RE: MY ATTITUDE I think you really need to chill.. When someone tells you to RTFM, they are not being rude... There are a number of paper written on web manners etc.. RTFM is not considered rude. People want to help, but you have to want to help yourself. Cheers Mat PS: Im not having a go -Original Message- From: Steve Burrus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 9:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: MY ATTITUDE This might be just enough from me to get me permanently kicked off of this newsgroup (are you reading this, Craig R. McClanahan??) I don't really care! I just had to get off of my chest a thing or two, and that is that just about all of you people out there in this newsgroup seem to have in for me in a really big way!! You make me feel like I should first drop dead and then possibly--if I could--drop off of the face of this Earth!! Maybe I should consult a psychologist/psychiatrist about this, but I have felt for a long time in my life that nobody in the whole wide world knows or wants to know that I AM ALIVE AT ALL. I dare anyone to respond to me WITHOUT saying to me the same old things in the way of an admonition that I have certainly heard so much of from so many of u recently. Thank You - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MY ATTITUDE
Well, well, Jim, aren't just flat too damned *cute* for yer own good?!!! You think that what u said makes me feel any better?: Steve,Don't go away mad, just go away! How on earth is your *crappy* response back to me gonna help me out w. my long series of problems? I'll bet that you really don't care about my *measly* problems at all. Am I right?
RE: MY ATTITUDE
Matthew, please forgive my *dumb naivety*, but what does RTFM mean,i.e., what does it stand for exactly anyway? I hope that this doesn't sound like some kind of a rant [again], but it seems like for a long time now people in this newsgroup have ragging on me! Capiche?!
RE: MY ATTITUDE
Sorry Romeo if not every single one of my numerous posts have anything to do with Tomcat or jsp's or servlets, but I am only human and have certain feelings and attitudes which I Iike/love to openly display for everyone else in this newsgroup of ours' !
RE: MY ATTITUDE
Dear Abby, Please help Steve. -Original Message- From: Steve Burrus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:31 PM To: Tomcat Users List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: MY ATTITUDE Well, well, Jim, aren't just flat too damned *cute* for yer own good?!!! You think that what u said makes me feel any better?: Steve,Don't go away mad, just go away! How on earth is your *crappy* response back to me gonna help me out w. my long series of problems? I'll bet that you really don't care about my *measly* problems at all. Am I right? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MY ATTITUDE
I have to ask, why do you go out of your way to offend people? Remember none of these people are being paid to help you, so try to be polite. Also, most people response better to well written, properly spelled, and grammatically correct messages. Also, don't bother to flame me (as you have nearly everyone else who criticized you), I have nothing further to say to you. --mikej -=- mike jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Steve Burrus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:31 PM To: Tomcat Users List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: MY ATTITUDE Well, well, Jim, aren't just flat too damned *cute* for yer own good?!!! You think that what u said makes me feel any better?: Steve,Don't go away mad, just go away! How on earth is your *crappy* response back to me gonna help me out w. my long series of problems? I'll bet that you really don't care about my *measly* problems at all. Am I right? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MY ATTITUDE
This not a therapy newsgroup! It's for people seeking and providing Apache/Tomcat information. There have been numerous posts describing why some questions are answered, some aren't and how to ask for help respectfully. I'm sick and tired of your crap. If you don't like this newsgroup or Apache/Tomcat - go somewhere else. If you want to participate in this newsgroup, grow up, have patience and try to put the pieces together for yourself. This is not the drop everything you're doing and help Steve Burrus newsgroup. This newsgroup has far too much traffic as it is. Enough is enough, please. -Original Message- From: Steve Burrus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:42 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: RE: MY ATTITUDE Sorry Romeo if not every single one of my numerous posts have anything to do with Tomcat or jsp's or servlets, but I am only human and have certain feelings and attitudes which I Iike/love to openly display for everyone else in this newsgroup of ours' ! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MY ATTITUDE
read the F**CKING manual - RTFM -Original Message- From: Steve Burrus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:38 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: RE: MY ATTITUDE Matthew, please forgive my *dumb naivety*, but what does RTFM mean,i.e., what does it stand for exactly anyway? I hope that this doesn't sound like some kind of a rant [again], but it seems like for a long time now people in this newsgroup have ragging on me! Capiche?! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MY ATTITUDE
Hi Steve, RTFM means Read the friggin' manual. It is used in almost any place where a person is asking a question when they could have read a document instead. The idea is that nobody has extra time sitting around to waste re-explaining things that have been explained perfectly well elsewhere. In your case, I think what you ought to read is the manual of mailing list etiquette. At first I thought you were a joker or someone who found it amusing to post the same questions again and again with strange exclamation points () and colloquialisms such as Capiche. I thought you were being rude, but I think now I realize that you just don't know any better. You are getting fewer answers every day because more and more people have set up their email clients to filter out your posts. It has become tiresome to read the same questions again and again, when others have pointed you to perfectly fine tutorials explaining how to go about it. If these tutorials are not a good enough explanation, then perhaps you ought to step down a notch to something more basic. Configuring Tomcat and writing JSP/servlet webapps is not easy, and requires that you understand the fundamentals of the Java language. There are dozens of free books with thousands of pages dedicated to this topic, a good one is Thinking in Java at http://www.mindview.net/ . A specialized mailing list like this one is dedicated to answering questions and discussing issues surrounding Tomcat, not explaining the syntax of a switch statement. Don't take that as an insult, I'm just explaining how it is. Sun offers an excellent forum for programmers who are new to Java at http://forum.java.sun.com/forum.jsp?forum=54 . But the problem at hand isn't even really whether or not this is the appropriate mailing list for you. You are not getting much help because you simply do not know the protocol for asking questions on a mailing list. It is not appropriate to discuss anything but Tomcat, or Tomcat-related issues on this list. Not switch statements. Not personal issues regarding your social development. People will forgive you if you make a mistake in this regard once in a while. But this has become a daily affair. I am going to give you one last hyperlink, and I really hope that you click it and read the web page it takes you to. Others have already given you this, and I can only assume that you haven't found time to read it yet. But please read this document. It will take you all of fifteen minutes. If you don't, or if you read it but choose not to listen, then no one on any mailing list is going to help you, as more and more people tune you out with email filters. The document is called How to Ask Questions the Smart Way, and is available at http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html . It is the friggin' manual for all mailing lists. RTFM. Erik Steve Burrus wrote: Matthew, please forgive my *dumb naivety*, but what does RTFM mean,i.e., what does it stand for exactly anyway? I hope that this doesn't sound like some kind of a rant [again], but it seems like for a long time now people in this newsgroup have ragging on me! Capiche?! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MY ATTITUDE
Please read this Steve. It's the best advice yet I've seen for you, and I don't mean that as an insult. Read it slowly, carefully and force yourself not to respond to it for at least a day. As the author says more are more people are going to set their mail filters to send your files straight to the trash if you don't improve both your etiquette and your knowledge. It may very well be that you don't have enough of a Java background to use servlets/jsp/tomcat successfully. There's nothing wrong with that. It just means that you're going to need to improve your knowledge of Java before you'll ever be self-sufficient with servlets/jsp. And the etiquette analysis is right on the mark. The more you attack people the more they'll ignore you and the more frustrated you'll become. At one point only new users will end up seeing your messages. So do us all a favor and read and digest the following. This is my last response. Best wishes, Ken -Original Message- From: Erik Price [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 6:26 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: MY ATTITUDE Hi Steve, RTFM means Read the friggin' manual. It is used in almost any place where a person is asking a question when they could have read a document instead. The idea is that nobody has extra time sitting around to waste re-explaining things that have been explained perfectly well elsewhere. In your case, I think what you ought to read is the manual of mailing list etiquette. At first I thought you were a joker or someone who found it amusing to post the same questions again and again with strange exclamation points () and colloquialisms such as Capiche. I thought you were being rude, but I think now I realize that you just don't know any better. You are getting fewer answers every day because more and more people have set up their email clients to filter out your posts. It has become tiresome to read the same questions again and again, when others have pointed you to perfectly fine tutorials explaining how to go about it. If these tutorials are not a good enough explanation, then perhaps you ought to step down a notch to something more basic. Configuring Tomcat and writing JSP/servlet webapps is not easy, and requires that you understand the fundamentals of the Java language. There are dozens of free books with thousands of pages dedicated to this topic, a good one is Thinking in Java at http://www.mindview.net/ . A specialized mailing list like this one is dedicated to answering questions and discussing issues surrounding Tomcat, not explaining the syntax of a switch statement. Don't take that as an insult, I'm just explaining how it is. Sun offers an excellent forum for programmers who are new to Java at http://forum.java.sun.com/forum.jsp?forum=54 . But the problem at hand isn't even really whether or not this is the appropriate mailing list for you. You are not getting much help because you simply do not know the protocol for asking questions on a mailing list. It is not appropriate to discuss anything but Tomcat, or Tomcat-related issues on this list. Not switch statements. Not personal issues regarding your social development. People will forgive you if you make a mistake in this regard once in a while. But this has become a daily affair. I am going to give you one last hyperlink, and I really hope that you click it and read the web page it takes you to. Others have already given you this, and I can only assume that you haven't found time to read it yet. But please read this document. It will take you all of fifteen minutes. If you don't, or if you read it but choose not to listen, then no one on any mailing list is going to help you, as more and more people tune you out with email filters. The document is called How to Ask Questions the Smart Way, and is available at http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html . It is the friggin' manual for all mailing lists. RTFM. Erik Steve Burrus wrote: Matthew, please forgive my *dumb naivety*, but what does RTFM mean,i.e., what does it stand for exactly anyway? I hope that this doesn't sound like some kind of a rant [again], but it seems like for a long time now people in this newsgroup have ragging on me! Capiche?! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MY ATTITUDE
Please do not feed the troll, eh? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MY ATTITUDE
Steve, please review the email guidelines: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html In particular... The level of community responsiveness to specific questions is generally directly proportional to the amount of effort you spend formulating your question. Eric Raymond has even written an essay entitled Asking Smart Questions precisely on this topic. Although somewhat militant, it is definitely worth reading. Followed by: Now that you have read the guidelines above, here is the page that gives you a listing of the different mailing lists that you can join. If you managed to find this without reading the above information, chances are you will be sent back here. You might as well read it now and save yourself the embarrassment. At 2/11/2003 02:31 PM, you wrote: Well, well, Jim, aren't just flat too damned *cute* for yer own good?!!! You think that what u said makes me feel any better?: Steve,Don't go away mad, just go away! How on earth is your *crappy* response back to me gonna help me out w. my long series of problems? I'll bet that you really don't care about my *measly* problems at all. Am I right?
Re: MY ATTITUDE
Mike, (u don't mind if I call you Mike do you? :-) ) what did you mean by stating Don't feed the troll, eh?
RE: MY ATTITUDE
Don't wallow in the mud with pigs, you will get dirty and the pigs will like it -Lorrie Ardion -Original Message- From: Steve Burrus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tue 2/11/2003 8:53 PM To: Tomcat Users List Cc: Subject: Re: MY ATTITUDE Mike, (u don't mind if I call you Mike do you? :-) ) what did you mean by stating Don't feed the troll, eh? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MY ATTITUDE
This might be just enough from me to get me permanently kicked off of this newsgroup (are you reading this, Craig R. McClanahan??) I don't really care! I just had to get off of my chest a thing or two, and that is that just about all of you people out there in this newsgroup seem to have in for me in a really big way!! You make me feel like I should first drop dead and then possibly--if I could--drop off of the face of this Earth!! Maybe I should consult a psychologist/psychiatrist about this, but I have felt for a long time in my life that nobody in the whole wide world knows or wants to know that I AM ALIVE AT ALL. I dare anyone to respond to me WITHOUT saying to me the same old things in the way of an admonition that I have certainly heard so much of from so many of u recently. Thank You
Re: MY ATTITUDE
First off, try and split your rant into several lines. I don't have a monitor that large to see everything in one line, I doubt everyone does. Steve Burrus wrote: I don't really care! I just had to get off of my chest a thing or two, and that is that just about all of you people out there in this newsgroup seem to have in for me in a really big way!! Sorry, wrong place to take things of your chest. People are just annoyed with the way you respond to them, judging from the replies that they sent. You make me feel like I should first drop dead and then possibly--if I could-- drop off of the face of this Earth!! Maybe I should consult a psychologist/psychiatrist about this, Maybe you should. Or just try to clear your mind and solve your tomcat related issues one at a time. but I have felt for a long time in my life that nobody in the whole wide world knows or wants to know that I AM ALIVE AT ALL. I dare anyone to respond to me WITHOUT saying to me the same old things in the way of an admonition that I have certainly heard so much of from so many of u recently. Thank You I recall from the list that people have replied to you in a polite manner so I don't see the point in you issuing the challenge. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MY ATTITUDE
Thank you Peng for being THE ONLY PERSON TO RESPOND TO ME SO FAR!!! I really do appreciate your honesty that u seemed to display in yer response back to me!!! And, I have never stated this as a reason for sounding the way that I must to others in our newsgroup, but I have never much learned the social graces that everyone needs to learn somewhere along the line in growing up!! That is certainly no kind of a condemnation of my nice parents and their parenting skills. No, it is more a refection of me and the very way that i chose to be to the rest of the world, sad to say! Please, can't someone other than this Peng respond back to my baring of my soul in a meaningful and relevent way? Why have I not heard back from this Craig Mcclanahan with the news that he intends to kick me out of this newsgroup? I seem to almost be begging for it in the way that this rant of mine sounds.
Re: MY ATTITUDE
damn... cool down. :-) first off, i looked up some of your previous posts, you might benefit from reading this: http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:Rx-raoTa3JUC:www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html+esr+how+to+ask+questionshl=enstart=1ie=UTF-8 (sorry about the google cache, tuxedo.org seems to be redirecting random places right now.) anywho, that's written by a guy who's very well known around these parts, if you're not familiar with him. he comes off, er, pompous in that piece but he does have a good point. there's a certain culture on mailing lists. a silent, agreed-apon way to ask questions in order to get good results. secondly, if you do get a polite response to your questions, be grateful. somebody has taken time out of their day to help you with your problem, and besides that, it's quite rare to have a good conversation on the list. most people come off sounding like jerks with their writing, so don't be put off by it. this is a collection of geeks and specialists, not english majors. many people just don't have the writing skills or time to make everything clear for their readers beyond the technical realm. and remember, english is not a first language for many people. thirdly, one thing i've learned: use smileys. whenever your intent or mood might not be obvious to the reader, the :-) denotes you are laughing or at least not meaning to be hurtful. if you really must use exclamation points, use them with caution -- they almost always make you sound angry. you really don't want any sort of attitude like that to show in your email, you are asking a question after all. the responses you gather will probably attack you. you are asking for a technical answer, so ask in a technical manner. and lastly: always think before you post. i have an annoying habit of firing off an email before i've really caught all of my own errors, i think everybody does that. before you hit that send button, try to explore on your own for a while. it'll do you good anyhow. :-) and please, fix your email client. :-) Mike Johnson On Mon, 2003-02-10 at 19:05, Steve Burrus wrote: This might be just enough from me to get me permanently kicked off of this newsgroup (are you reading this, Craig R. McClanahan??) I don't really care! I just had to get off of my chest a thing or two, and that is that just about all of you people out there in this newsgroup seem to have in for me in a really big way!! You make me feel like I should first drop dead and then possibly--if I could--drop off of the face of this Earth!! Maybe I should consult a psychologist/psychiatrist about this, but I have felt for a long time in my life that nobody in the whole wide world knows or wants to know that I AM ALIVE AT ALL. I dare anyone to respond to me WITHOUT saying to me the same old things in the way of an admonition that I have certainly heard so much of from so many of u recently. Thank You -- Mike Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MY ATTITUDE
Probably, because Craig has much more sense than to respond to rants like this (unlike some people, say me ;-). Also Craig is not one of the moderators of this list (and, I'm not one either). Steve Burrus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Thank you Peng for being THE ONLY PERSON TO RESPOND TO ME SO FAR!!! I really do appreciate your honesty that u seemed to display in yer response back to me!!! And, I have never stated this as a reason for sounding the way that I must to others in our newsgroup, but I have never much learned the social graces that everyone needs to learn somewhere along the line in growing up!! That is certainly no kind of a condemnation of my nice parents and their parenting skills. No, it is more a refection of me and the very way that i chose to be to the rest of the world, sad to say! Please, can't someone other than this Peng respond back to my baring of my soul in a meaningful and relevent way? Why have I not heard back from this Craig Mcclanahan with the news that he intends to kick me out of this newsgroup? I seem to almost be begging for it in the way that this rant of mine sounds. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MY ATTITUDE
On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 08:09:04PM -0800, Steve Burrus wrote: Thank you Peng for being THE ONLY PERSON TO RESPOND TO ME SO FAR!!! Well, you have to recognize that not everybody is awake, or interested, at the same time. I really do appreciate your honesty that u seemed to display in yer response back to me!!! Anybody who actually *responds* to you, negative or positive, is being more honest than most people, who will simply ignore you (and this, in turn, is more honest than those who will engage in a false dialog to have fun teasing you, or to pump their own egoes). Those who ignore you are divided (in what proportion, I cannot say) between those who are unwilling to invest the time and energy in this community, and those who have prior obligations that take precedence (for example, Craig McClanahan). Please, can't someone other than this Peng respond back to my baring of my soul in a meaningful and relevent way? Why have I not heard back from this Craig Mcclanahan with the news that he intends to kick me out of this newsgroup? I wouldn't expect Craig to do so. For one thing, he's not in charge of this list, although most people in the java world have a lot of respect for him and would certainly give a lot of attention to any request he made. For another thing, Craig's probably much more interested in devoting his energy to the various projects that he's committed to - like helping get the next version of Tomcat out, or helping steer the development of various Java Community Process specifications. For yet another thing, Craig constantly contributes his time and expertise to helping people get started with tomcat (and on the servlet list, though I haven't really had time to read that list in the past few years, so I don't know if he still does). He probably has learned by now to focus on investing his time and energy in places where he can make a positive difference, and ignore situations like this. I recognize where you're coming from here. I've been frustrated and trying to find the answer to problems, and I've had that feeling that nobody's listening. But experience (both that experience, and the experience of being on the other side of this equation) has shown me that the real reason people are responding is that: some people have no clue how to respond (we're not all experts) some people don't have the answer (even the experts don't always know) some people don't have the time (experts are often very busy) And finally, some people don't need the angst. To explain tht last; being busy, you want to invest your time where you *know* it will make a difference. Even the time necessary to *figure out* whether a given request will make a difference or not is too much. There are a thousand requests at any given moment. Any one of them (or many of them) could easily suck up enough time, just figuring out if the requester knows enough to understand the answer, to prevent you from answering the dozens of requests where you *know* your response will make a difference. Not to mention the other activities you may be involved in, which will strategically help thousands or tens of thousands of people at once. This is why, if you want to get answers to your questions, you have to make it clear in your post that you have done your homework, that you have tried the usual resources, that you are not asking for the answer to be spoonfed to you. And sadly, even then, the simple fact may be that nobody around at the moment knows the answer. And that the people who might be able to figure out the answer, with some time and thought, don't have the time to spare, because they're busy working on either more advanced issues, or helping people with more basic stuff (as we see here, every day). Steven J. Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm going to make broad, sweeping generalizations and strong, declarative statements, because otherwise I'll be here all night and this document will be four times longer and much less fun to read. Take it all with a grain of salt. - Me at http://darksleep.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MY ATTITUDE
On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 02:01:33AM -0500, Steven J. Owens wrote: I recognize where you're coming from here. I've been frustrated and trying to find the answer to problems, and I've had that feeling that nobody's listening. But experience (both that experience, and the experience of being on the other side of this equation) has shown me that the real reason people are responding is that: ~~ That should, of course, have read ...are not responding Late night, too much whiskey (in this case, bourbon :-), etc. Steven J. Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm going to make broad, sweeping generalizations and strong, declarative statements, because otherwise I'll be here all night and this document will be four times longer and much less fun to read. Take it all with a grain of salt. - Me at http://darksleep.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
