RE: I don´t understand the objective of thisopen list !
I actually think what most scares people from opensource is this it's free, do not complain attitude... But I agree that the way this guy is writing is offensive. Well, although I get worried when someone with 20 years of experience can't install some RPMs, I think it's time to stop this thread. This list already clutters my inbox, and this is getting dumb. On Tue, 2002-12-10 at 11:46, Hamilton, Andrew wrote: You know what really bothers me about this whole thread: Tomcat is free. What right does anyone have to complain about free stuff? That's like complaining cause someone gave you free beer but it said Generic on the label. It might not go down as smoothly but the effect is the same. I setup Tomcat without problems in minutes. But then again I read the docs. It was a challenge to get through some of them but I managed to do it. Me, I only have 8 years of experience as a developer and systems admin. All that experience must be doing something to the guys brain like turning it to mush. I'm a serious advocate of open source in all its guises and I do appreciate this list and the help I get from it. Fortunately I don't have to ask many questions because mostly I can search the archives and someone has asked it before me and gotten the answer. So for my part I want to thank you all. Regards, Drew -Original Message- From: Turner, John [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 8:33 AM To: 'Tomcat Users List' Subject: RE: I don´t understand the objective of this open list ! You're forgetting that Tomcat is a reference implementation. Nobody is positioning it as a be-all, end-all commercial solution. If you use JRUN, you are tied to Macromedia forever. You automatically lose portability, you automatically lose customer base because there are many tech-savvy customers out there who are very aware that the same functionality can be had for free, you automatically lose the ability to adapt the product to your needs, and you automatically put the responsibility for the security of your company's (and your customers') intellectual property and proprietary information into the hands of a third-party company that a) has no fiduciary responsibility to you, your customers, or your company (read Macromedia's EULA), and b) is driven solely by profit. Talk about a house of cards. So, if you'd like to abdicate all of that responsibility in return for a nicely bound paperback book with icons and a table of contents, and a nice installer that does things to your system in a fashion that prevents you from ever finding out exactly what it did and why, then by all means purchase JRUN or any other product. Don't make the bogus jump from that decision process to a decision process that leads you to believe that JRUN is better just because it has documentation. Your 20 years of technical experience sure hasn't helped you with your reasoning, logic, and deduction skills. Perhaps a Critical Thinking class at the local community college would be beneficial. BTW, if you'd like to pay me $1000 (same price as JRUN), I'll write the best documentation you've ever seen, and even put it into a nice little book for you. But then, that would be proving how ridiculous your posts, reasoning, and assumptions are, and I have a feeling you're not that dumb. John -Original Message- From: Mike DiChiappari [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 7:37 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: RE: I don´t understand the objective of this open list ! Notice that I didn't ask a question JOEL BERGMAN (are you a Jakarta developer). I simply chimed in when someone else expressed dissatisfaction with this list. I have been disappointed and frustrated by the that is called documentation. I stopped trying to get tomcat to work properly over a year ago. Recently I looked into it again, and noticed little to no improvement. Note that my background is technical, with over twenty years of building commercial quality software. I don't believe in a lot of pie-in-the-sky ideals in terms of software development. I rate software on three important criteria: does it do what it is intended, can it be used easily, and is it maintainable. In terms of tomcat, I give it a grade of incomplete on all three of the above. I can not tell if it does what its supposed to because I can't get it to work with a reasonable amount of effort. Here if my contribution to Jarkata and people looking for a low cost Java solution. Use JRUN (discalimer: I am not affiliated with Macromedia in any way). It is under $1000 and includes a full J2EE implementation (JSP, servlets, EJB). It looks like the installer does all the stuff that mod_jk, mod_jk2, and mod_web are supposed to (if anyone could get them to work). A development version is available for free.
Re: I don´t understand the objective of thisopen list !
Dave Sill wrote: Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Our company has a very young, inexperienced appserver administrator who had Tomcat up an running in a matter of minutes (literally) without a CD library of professionally drafted set of documentation. With an Apache connector? Running as a nonprivileged user and/or chrooted? Instead of complaining, why not post the specific nature of your problems and let people here help you? I'm not complaining, and I did exactly that. Know what response I got? Nothing. Not one reply. No requests for more info, no flames, no outta work's, ... nothing. See: http://www.mail-archive.com/tomcat-user@jakarta.apache.org/msg76175.html I know I'm not entitled to a response, but when the documention fails and only other support channel available fails, it's frustrating. -- Dave Sill Oak Ridge National Lab, Workstation Support Author, The qmail Handbookhttp://web.infoave.net/~dsill http://lifewithqmail.org/: Almost everything you always wanted to know. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If the socked file does not exist perhaps the user running tomcat could not create it (of course if you are running as root this is moot). I'm sorry I can't help more, I have not started on mod_jk2 yet. If I do get it setup I'll give you more help. (right now it does not compile for me and because I have a working tomcat install and lots of other 'more important' things to do I must leave it be). -CA -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I don´t understand the objective of thisopen list !
You will generally find on open-source mailing lists that if you don't get a response to a question it is usually because the answer is either in the documentation or in the mailing list and just a few simple searches will usually return you the information that you seek, or that you have not provided sufficient information for anyone to comment on your problem. You will also find that there is no one to *yell at* here as you can with a vendor-provided solution. Open-source is generally supported by technology enthusiasts who, without any compensation, devote their time and expertise to promoting the open-source alternative. If you are coming from a vendor-provided solution base and are used to just barking out questions and demanding answers you will find that you will not be very welcome in a community where mutual respect and cooperation are the norm. There are many here that are willing to assist you but you must show that you have done things like: thoroughly read the documentation, made a reasonably thorough search of the existing archives for the information that you seek, if you still need help then thoroughly describing your problem in exact detail with supporting information such as stacktraces, log entries, etc. Regards, Gerry Reno --- ContestAdmin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave Sill wrote: Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Our company has a very young, inexperienced appserver administrator who had Tomcat up an running in a matter of minutes (literally) without a CD library of professionally drafted set of documentation. With an Apache connector? Running as a nonprivileged user and/or chrooted? Instead of complaining, why not post the specific nature of your problems and let people here help you? I'm not complaining, and I did exactly that. Know what response I got? Nothing. Not one reply. No requests for more info, no flames, no outta work's, ... nothing. See: http://www.mail-archive.com/tomcat-user@jakarta.apache.org/msg76175.html I know I'm not entitled to a response, but when the documention fails and only other support channel available fails, it's frustrating. -- Dave Sill Oak Ridge National Lab, Workstation Support Author, The qmail Handbook http://web.infoave.net/~dsill http://lifewithqmail.org/: Almost everything you always wanted to know. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If the socked file does not exist perhaps the user running tomcat could not create it (of course if you are running as root this is moot). I'm sorry I can't help more, I have not started on mod_jk2 yet. If I do get it setup I'll give you more help. (right now it does not compile for me and because I have a working tomcat install and lots of other 'more important' things to do I must leave it be). -CA -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RE: I don´t understand the objective of thisopen list !
Just do not post to the list anymore okay? I actually think your e-mail should be banned from the list. If nobody replied your question is because your english is not very easy to understand. You spoke something about people from other coutries, I'm not sure if I understood you, but I'm a brazilian and get lots of help here, I love this list - my only complaint is that I receive too much mails per day. :-) On Mon, 2002-12-09 at 12:19, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, buy your words don´t give me fear. I only search technical help for something. i don´t have interest in to obtain enemies, I´d like friends that can help me. Only friends. I don´t need your threats. Thank´s. Mensaje citado por: Donie Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You're defiantly blacklisted now :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 09 December 2002 13:40 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: I don´t understand the objective of this open list ! In 3 opportunities i wrote to this stuped (sorry) list, and NEVER i found help. I hope that the people that participates of this list, don´t have damages about other people that don´t belong´s at your countries. Thank´s for NOTHING. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Felipe Schnack Analista de Sistemas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cel.: (51)91287530 Linux Counter #281893 Faculdade Ritter dos Reis www.ritterdosreis.br [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fone/Fax.: (51)32303328 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RE: I don´t understand the objective of thisopen list !
Te puedo ayudar en español si gustas, dime cual es tu problema y veremos si me es posible ayudarte a resolverlo. Saludos. On Mon, 2002-12-09 at 08:13, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what curious that is the first time that someone here, can to answer to something. Yes, this list is not for fighting, but is for help at other persons...maybe you can help me to solve my easy technical problem and forget this, because i think that you don´t have damages, it´s right ?. Thank´s. Mensaje citado por: Laxmikanth M.S. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This is not the list for fighting.. if u have personal grievance please send it to intended person not to the list please avoid flooding mails like this hereafter.even I am sorry for sending to all but no othergo Regards Laxmikanth M S Off* : 91-80-6610330 extn 1256 Res* : 91-80-5267150 http://www.sonata-software.com Coming together is the beginning, staying together is progress and working together is Success What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us - Emerson -Original Message- From: Donie Kelly [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 7:16 PM To: 'Tomcat Users List' Subject: RE: I don´t understand the objective of this open list ! You're defiantly blacklisted now :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 09 December 2002 13:40 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: I don´t understand the objective of this open list ! In 3 opportunities i wrote to this stuped (sorry) list, and NEVER i found help. I hope that the people that participates of this list, don´t have damages about other people that don´t belong´s at your countries. Thank´s for NOTHING. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Disclaimer: The information in this e-mail and any attachments is confidential / privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee or addressees. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer does not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. * -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: I don´t understand the objective of thisopen list !
My advice: don't use it. We geeks who take the time to LEARN about the technologies we use will go about our business, using Tomcat. If you do not like it, please find another list to flame-bait on. Btw, I am running an App that has roughly 20k hits per day using a 99% dynamically generated web app (this is a rather small web app compared to others out there on the list) and I rely on it in a life or death situation (i.e., I get fired if I cannot keep up a 99% uptime requirement for 24/7/365). Tomcat works perfectly. Ben Ricker On Mon, 2002-12-09 at 16:04, Mike DiChiappari wrote: You're correct. There is lots of documentation out there. Unfortunately, it belongs with most things that are open sourse - in the trash. Jakarata/tomcat is particularly bad. The people that manage it should be ashamed of themselves (I hope they are not building software I have to rely on in life and death situations). Mike I disagree. There's lots of documentation out there. It's just not blasted into peoples' faces, nor is it bound into a nice little book and shrinkwrapped. You have to go find it, and you have to read it. Most people are too lazy to do either, they want everything handed to them. John -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ben Ricker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wellinx.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: RE: I don´t understand the objective of thisopen list !
-- is not permitted within comments. [INFO] Http11Protocol - -Starting Coyote HTTP/1.1 on port 8080 [INFO] ChannelSocket - -JK2: ajp13 listening on tcp port 8009 [INFO] JkMain - -Jk running ID=0 time=1/141 config=/www2/websev/uportal/tomcat/dist/conf/jk2.properties Si deseas, te puedo enviar todos los archivos completos de los logs para que los analices. Lo obvio, es que estos archivos de ejemplo, deberían ya estar corriendo, además como una página que está dentro de /admin y que tampoco carga, que se enlaza desde un vínculo en la parte superior de la página de inicio. Hay algo que tenga que hacerle a esta versión de tomcat (4.1.12) para que me corran esos ejemplos, o es que existe algún problema con algo ?. Gracias por tu ayuda. -Mensaje original- De: Alexander Wallace [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Enviado el: lunes, 09 de diciembre de 2002 17:24 Para: Tomcat Users List Asunto: Re: RE: I don´t understand the objective of thisopen list ! Te puedo ayudar en español si gustas, dime cual es tu problema y veremos si me es posible ayudarte a resolverlo. Saludos. On Mon, 2002-12-09 at 08:13, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what curious that is the first time that someone here, can to answer to something. Yes, this list is not for fighting, but is for help at other persons...maybe you can help me to solve my easy technical problem and forget this, because i think that you don´t have damages, it´s right ?. Thank´s. Mensaje citado por: Laxmikanth M.S. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This is not the list for fighting.. if u have personal grievance please send it to intended person not to the list please avoid flooding mails like this hereafter.even I am sorry for sending to all but no othergo Regards Laxmikanth M S Off* : 91-80-6610330 extn 1256 Res* : 91-80-5267150 http://www.sonata-software.com Coming together is the beginning, staying together is progress and working together is Success What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us - Emerson -Original Message- From: Donie Kelly [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 7:16 PM To: 'Tomcat Users List' Subject: RE: I don´t understand the objective of this open list ! You're defiantly blacklisted now :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 09 December 2002 13:40 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: I don´t understand the objective of this open list ! In 3 opportunities i wrote to this stuped (sorry) list, and NEVER i found help. I hope that the people that participates of this list, don´t have damages about other people that don´t belong´s at your countries. Thank´s for NOTHING. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Disclaimer: The information in this e-mail and any attachments is confidential / privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee or addressees. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer does not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. * -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: I don´t understand the objective of thisopen list !
On Mon, 2002-12-09 at 17:51, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Thank´s for your answer. Yes, maybe my questions is very dificult because: 1. Nobody has to installed tomcat 4.1.12 and 2. Nobody has to run the simple examples of tomcat 4.1.12 after the install. I installed 4.1.12 in the car on my laptop. Took me all of a few minutes, and was a lot less boring than watching the road. I don't recall anything even remotely resembling an issue installing Tomcat standalone. Yeah, I've just installed it on a server I'm planning to put into production in the next couple weeks and it's working like a charm. Having said that I'll admit two things 1) I didn't try to run the examples 2) I've been using tomcat since it's earliest releases, so I know how to get a deployment up and running fast [For the horrified, I wasn't the one driving at the time ;-)] I'm picturing a a special episode of Jackass involving geeks doing software installations in dangerous situations. Look as Bob installs solaris while bunjee jumping from a hot air balloon!. ---Steve -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: I don´t understand the objective of thisopen list !
Yeah, I've just installed it on a server I'm planning to put into production in the next couple weeks and it's working like a charm. Having said that I'll admit two things 1) I didn't try to run the examples I did. :-) With a fresh install, it is the first thing to do, just to make sure that you are OK to that point. 2) I've been using tomcat since it's earliest releases, so I know how to get a deployment up and running fast It wasn't my first tomcat install, either. Still, it was a new clean install, and trivially simple. Then I started moving over my web apps from another JSP container. That was a bit more fun (some issues related to connection pooling and session handling), but I got it done, and learned a lot about how tomcat does sessions and listeners in the process. I just posted a generic listener class for people to have as a plaything for learning about lifecycles. FWIW, the problem I encountered porting the code is that we had a shared pool in application scope, and related session content in session scope. The session would try to persist, but the application content would be gone. So in that web app I now invalidate the session when passivating as an interim solution. Came across an interesting defect in jasper, by the way. AFAIK, there is nothing in the JSP spec that says that you cannot declare a bean within the source code for a JSP page (e.g., for a generated page that has an embedded form), but jasper apparently cannot handle it. I'll write it up with an example when I've some free time. --- Noel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: I don´t understand the objective of thisopen list !
I also have a technical background, but not as big as yours. I have been programming in java por 3 months now. Even before I started programming I gave tomcat a try to see my options. I have to tell you that getting tomcat to run and work fine is trivial. That setting up connection pooling is just a matter of following the instructions in jakarta's site, and that setting mod_jk to work, just following the example, took like 30 minutes... Now, i'm a linux user, i don't know if it's as easy or not in windows, but if you can't get tomcat running with minimal effort, then there has to be a problem in your setop that is beyont tomcat. On Tue, 2002-12-10 at 00:37, Mike DiChiappari wrote: Notice that I didn't ask a question JOEL BERGMAN (are you a Jakarta developer). I simply chimed in when someone else expressed dissatisfaction with this list. I have been disappointed and frustrated by the that is called documentation. I stopped trying to get tomcat to work properly over a year ago. Recently I looked into it again, and noticed little to no improvement. Note that my background is technical, with over twenty years of building commercial quality software. I don't believe in a lot of pie-in-the-sky ideals in terms of software development. I rate software on three important criteria: does it do what it is intended, can it be used easily, and is it maintainable. In terms of tomcat, I give it a grade of incomplete on all three of the above. I can not tell if it does what its supposed to because I can't get it to work with a reasonable amount of effort. Here if my contribution to Jarkata and people looking for a low cost Java solution. Use JRUN (discalimer: I am not affiliated with Macromedia in any way). It is under $1000 and includes a full J2EE implementation (JSP, servlets, EJB). It looks like the installer does all the stuff that mod_jk, mod_jk2, and mod_web are supposed to (if anyone could get them to work). A development version is available for free. Mike -Original Message- From: Mike DiChiappari [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 4:37 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: I don´t understand the objective of this open list ! I know the reason for this list - at least as it applies to Jakarta. It is meant to address the complete lack of adequate documentation for tomcat. Are you volunteering to write some, Mike DiChiappari? That is how things get done: someone DOES them. If you don't know enough, you could skim the mailing list looking for questions, finding out when they were answered to the questioner's satisfaction, and using that as your source material. Or do you just want answers to YOUR questions? --- Noel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: I don´t understand the objective of thisopen list !
You can most likely find how to contribute in the jakarta site. On Mon, 2002-12-09 at 23:26, Theodore A. Jencks wrote: I'm brand new to this list and have noticed the lack of good documentation available. However the docs that exist are extremely helpful and I've found plenty of information on configuring Tomcat. Since this thread is getting so much publicity I might as well restate my willingness to improve upon the documentation that currently exists. To say that the developers of Tomcat owe us users anything would be ridicules they have already done so much. However I think good documentation is key for the success of any software. If you use Tomcat you should be concerned with it's future. In short good documentation is a win for everyone, just take PHP as an example. One big reason that it's so popular is because of a great documentation team. Heck I'd go so far as to say that's why Microsoft dominates the computer industry; it's because they have the best docs in the industry hands down. I think open source developers realize this but often don't have time to do anything about it. Here is an opportunity though as I've offered my services. So if anyone knows who I should contact about this I'm all ears. Best regards, Theo == Theodore A. Jencks-- DigitalFacet, Inc. -- President P.O. Box 242 Tel: 925-362-0015Alamo, CA Fax: 925-362-899594507 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.digitalfacet.com == -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
