Hi, Jim-
Remember, when you transmit, those radials are radiating.
Worst case, you might even get arcing from any unlucky
voltage points along the 'radials' depending on power
level and the actual lengths. And those wires are in
your neighbors' basements? Yikes!
They could possibly tear up AM
That is a Wullenwber (or Wullenwever) array. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wullenweber
It would have probably made one heck of an 80/160 meter receive
antenna G.
The video appears to be one of the abandoned Russian Kraug arrays -
The caption translates roughly:
Remains of COT (trace
Back in the day, we (US Army) had a 1/2 mile diameter, 100 feet high
wire array located in south Florida. I routinely copied Russian
aircraft taxing on the runways in Russia using cw. This looks
somewhat familiar.
N4DU
On Feb 10, 2012, at 10:30 AM, W0UCE wrote:
Frank:
I think the
So, in these times of I want it all at no effort, let's raise the bar.
Create new thresholds, filters etc. at which only serious new ops will get
through.
Close all DX clusters for Topband; yeah hardly realstic, I know.
But..
Do not spot on the cluster anymore.
73 Mark, PA5MW
On 9 feb. 2012,
So, in these times of I want it all at no effort, let's raise the bar.
Create new thresholds, filters etc. at which only serious new ops will get
through.
Or move to the new Topband500Khz
Cecil
K5DL
___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB -
Can only imagine how big the loading coil for my 40' vertical would need to be
for 500 kHz operations. Hi Hi
From: t...@kkn.net
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:02:01 -0800
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Proper Decorum On The Gentleman's Band...
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at
On 2012-02-10, at 11:34 AM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote:
One advantage of using insulate wire is that the velocity factor of the wire
on ground or (ROG) allows for shorter lengths. This is important if you
have limited yard space.
Hi Herb,
Interesting point...!
According to either the ARRL
Here's the status as of 9 February of the proposed 472 kHz allocation.
http://www.arrl.org/arrlletter?issue=2012-02-09
WRC-12: Agenda Item 1.23 Passes Committee, Moves to Plenary
Agenda Item 1.23 -- creating a 7 kilohertz-wide amateur secondary allocation
between 472-479 kHz -- is expected to
On 2/10/2012 12:48 PM, Eddy Swynar wrote:
On 2012-02-10, at 11:34 AM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote:
One advantage of using insulate wire is that the velocity factor of
the wire
on ground or (ROG) allows for shorter lengths. This is important if you
have limited yard space.
*/Hi Herb,/*
HM
If that is the case, WHY do the pro broadcasters install all 120 radials at
full length; even bare wire buried a couple of inches underground?
Inquiring minds want to know where this conversation is going.
I understand that when you are doing radials, with a few they are part of
On 2/10/2012 8:50 AM, ZR wrote:
Ive seen a few that use copper tubing wrapped around a 55 gallon
plastic drum and a 30-40' vertical element!
Im running a top loaded T supported off the side of the 180' tower and
elevated radials.
Carl
KM1H
- Original Message - From: Jack/W6NF
The Soviet Krug array was a much smaller than the array in the video, nearly
identical to the World War II German Wullenweber array. The Krug construction
techniques were far different and much less expensive than those shown in the
video.
Hi Jim,
Yes, the variation with frequency that you saw was the transmission line
behavior. I'd say that the 1 MHz numbers are good.
73, Jim K9YC
On 2/10/2012 5:43 AM, Jim F. wrote:
Hi Jim,
Thank you so much for the reply. Here is what I did.
I tried an Autek RF-1 antenna analyzer to
I started hearing the Woodpecker on 20M at NSGA Bremerhaven, on the North Sea
coast, in the late 1960's. It would completely peg the S Meter and wipe out
every signal on the band. Even the Italian stations on 20M SSB, who were
usually 20 to 40 over S9, could not make it through. I don't know
Mis tres centavos:
I think you are right on!
There is confusion what is radial - as part of resonant antenna radiator vs.
ground (plane)
One has to look at the current distribution curves in EZNEC and se what current
is in what, what is radiating and what is eaten up by the loses.
One
According to either the ARRL ANTENNA HANDBOOK, or ON4UN's LOW-BAND DX
HANDBOOK, the velocity factor of insulated wire placed atop the ground is
50%...
Unfortunately, and inconveniently, not to cast aspersions on anyone, BUT
actual measurements in the Raleigh area showed that velocity factor
Pardon the dyslexia. Mr. Doty is W7ACD not W7ADC.
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV olin...@bellsouth.netwrote:
Have a read on W7ADC's (the excellent Mr. Archibald Doty) work in NCJ on
radials. 1983 and 2011. Note the variability in the SAME dense radial
field, and his
On 2012-02-10, at 1:21 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
If any of you think an insulated radial field can just plopped down based on
a formula on just any plot of land and be efficient, think again. All that is
necessary to be abysmally INefficient is for the construction ground fill
Not enough room for towers and radials? Antennas aren't big enough?
Here's an employment opportunity to work on ELF antennas at the 2 megawatt U.S.
Navy NAA transmitter in sunny, warm Cutler, Maine.
https://applicationmanager.gov/Questionnaire.aspx?ID=4313317PreviewType=Questionnaire
On 2012-02-10, at 1:52 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
It's not to not try anything. It's to try something that you know will work,
once you *know* what you have to work with. The ARRL and ON4UN material
presume uniformity. That, unfortunately, is only true where it's true, and
it's not
On Fri, 2012-02-10 at 14:09 -0500, Eddy Swynar wrote:
On 2012-02-10, at 1:52 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
It's not to not try anything. It's to try something that you know will
work, once you *know* what you have to work with. The ARRL and ON4UN
material presume uniformity. That,
On 2/10/2012 1:11 PM, Milt -- N5IA wrote:
If that is the case, WHY do the pro broadcasters install all 120 radials at
full length; even bare wire buried a couple of inches underground?
Answer:
Because the FCC requires it as part of your AM application. Some
stations that were required to
The 120 comes from the watershed 1937 Brown Lewis and Eppstein study now
found in the IEEE journals. There were distinct characteristics to 120
times 0.4 wl (actually 115) that improved results even vs. 60.
That a deficient radial system on one side has any significant reduction in
that direction
Years ago in the early 1960's when working in Bangor Maine at WLBZ-TV and WLBZ
620 KHZ AM radio (Now WZON radio) we had a weak AM ground wave signal. Could
hardly copy at Belfast about 25 miles
south on the coast. Diagnosed the problem as ground losses and replaced many
radials, some of
On 2/10/2012 5:03 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
The 120 comes from the watershed 1937 Brown Lewis and Eppstein study now
found in the IEEE journals. There were distinct characteristics to 120
times 0.4 wl (actually 115) that improved results even vs. 60.
That a deficient radial system on one
What radial length does the FCC requirement stipulate for the 120 radials?
Quarter, half or a full wavelength?
How did they come to this decision since Brown, Lewis and Eppstein used 0.4wl?
Mike N2MS
- Original Message -
From: Guy Olinger K2AV olin...@bellsouth.net
To:
Off top my head, it would seem the slant wire would work to create a
directional effect of one sort or other, depending on the specifics, but I
have no clue why the FCC dissed that one. They usually attach some
technical explanation to rulings. You have access to the specific
proceedings? I
They have stray radiation that the FCC's computer can not model.
On 2/10/12 5:43 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
Off top my head, it would seem the slant wire would work to create a
directional effect of one sort or other, depending on the specifics, but I
have no clue why the FCC dissed that one.
The paper by Rudy Severns, EXPERIMENTAL DETERMINATION OF GROUND SYSTEM
PERFORMANCE FOR HF VERTICALS PART 7 GROUND SYSTEMS WITH MISSING SECTORS is
illuminating.
WX7G
On Feb 10, 2012 2:03 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV olin...@bellsouth.net wrote:
The 120 comes from the watershed 1937 Brown Lewis and
It is time to stop talking.
This topic pops up every six months or so for many years now.
Go to a defined and mutual agreed property and build / test all mentioned
radial models.
No need to keep throwing theories, agreed/non agreed standards, computer models
and hardly relevant
Here is a link to that paper. It is easy see what field a radiator of X
height will produce with varying number of radials from 2 to 113. From
the graphs 15 radials and a 45 deg tower gets reasonably close to the
ideal. It also shows a 45 deg tower with 113 radials is almost as good
as a 90
On 2/10/2012 6:43 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
Off top my head, it would seem the slant wire would work to create a
directional effect of one sort or other, depending on the specifics, but I
have no clue why the FCC dissed that one. They usually attach some
technical explanation to rulings.
Brings back some fond memories! As a young A1C arriving for my first tour at
Misawa AB in 1981 I was given the task to TDR every cable in the FLR-9 from
the Goniometer to each element and repair any issues.
Gary Mitchelson
N3JPU Davidsonville, MD FM18
http://www.mitchelson.org/
-Original
The broadcasters also dont fall for the resonance bit either; very few
radiators plus radials have anything to do with an actual resonance.
All of this was explained back in the 30's.
Carl
KM1H
- Original Message -
From: Milt -- N5IA n...@zia-connection.com
To: Eddy Swynar
Hi this study might be of interest to those wishing to optimize their ground
system for various constraints.
http://www.ncjweb.com/k3lcmaxgainradials.pdf
___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
A trivial point in this discussion, but of some consequence in assessment
of data, the average is almost always NOT the 50% point of a population.
The Median is the midpoint -- that is 50% of the population is above and
50% below the Median.
The Average [or Mean] for a population is very
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