Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial vertical on a beach

2014-08-15 Thread Guy Olinger K2AV
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 9:28 PM, Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com wrote: One would think if there was a 10-20 db penalty, it would show on skimmers and that W2GD would be unbeatable being on the water. I'm sure I'm missing something. What is it I am missing? A contest certainly is not only about

Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial vertical on a beach

2014-08-15 Thread k1zm--- via Topband
Hi Guys K3ZM is my brother - and his 160m antenna is located in a salt marsh just to the West of Chesapeake Bay in Matthews, Va as I recall. Indeed he is located inland a bit (eg: not directly at water's edge) - perhaps 1000 feet distant (although this is only a guess on my part from photos I

Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial vertical on a beach

2014-08-15 Thread Tom W8JI
The signals showing the most change were not the loudest. They were the ones on the edge of the developing band opening. The stronger or peak signals from these stations would occur later as (presumably) the angle of arrival moved up. The advantage to the water's edge I was hearing would only

Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial vertical on a beach

2014-08-15 Thread Clive GM3POI
I think that what is being suggested is, that if you have two signals, one S9 and the other right at noise level. The salt water advantage shows up more on the weak signal. Let us say both increase by 6db the S9 signal won't be noticed as louder, but the weak signal will now show clearly above

Topband: Fw: Modeling the proverbial vertical on a beach

2014-08-15 Thread k1fz
I think that what is being suggested is, that if you have two signals, one S9 and the other right at noise level. The salt water advantage shows up more on the weak signal. Let us say both increase by 6db the S9 signal won't be noticed as louder, but the weak signal will now show clearly

Re: Topband: Fw: Modeling the proverbial vertical on a beach

2014-08-15 Thread pat
I worked a yb long path from w8lt in the 80s through a pileup using 100 watts. Antenna was a half square at 120 feet across the open end of Ohio stadium. Maybe being near a more conductive ground made your mobile antenna more efficient. Guess I'm not seeing any magic here. N8vw On August

Re: Topband: Fw: Modeling the proverbial vertical on a beach

2014-08-15 Thread Charlie
As long as this thread had been going on - perhaps I should be down shopping for real estate on the Outer Banks - but then I'd be more exposed to hurricanes, washed-out roads and lost power! J 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband

Topband: Fw: Fw: Modeling the proverbial vertical on a beach

2014-08-15 Thread k1fz
That has been the effort of many, using this thread, giving examples of connection to conductivity of sea water or other media. Believe only the nay-sayers have used the buzz word magic. Which low band did you work the YB 160 or 80 meters? 73 Bruce I worked a yb long path from w8lt in

Re: Topband: Fw: Fw: Modeling the proverbial vertical on a beach

2014-08-15 Thread pat
Sorry, 75m. On August 15, 2014 11:53:54 AM EDT, k1fz k...@myfairpoint.net wrote: That has been the effort of many, using this thread, giving examples of connection to conductivity of sea water or other media. Believe only the nay-sayers have used the buzz word magic. Which low band did you

Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial vertical on a beach

2014-08-15 Thread Carl
A 3CX15000B7 or similar makes up for a lot of things and especially to those who always want to be on top in a pileup or contest. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com To: 'TopBand List' topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 9:51 AM Subject: Re:

Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial vertical on a beach

2014-08-15 Thread Tom W8JI
That makes no sense at all. What are you trying to say? - Original Message - From: Carl k...@jeremy.mv.com To: Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com; 'TopBand List' topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 12:39 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial vertical on a beach A

Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial vertical on a beach

2014-08-15 Thread Aravind Balasubramanian (VU2ABS)
Almost very true Tim. Please see my lowband dxpedition experience at vu7ag summarised in my blog link below My topband experience is only in dxpedtions. http://vu2abs.blogspot.in/2014/08/my-low-band-experience-in-vu7ag-2013.html We just announced our next expedition to Andaman and Nicobar

Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial vertical on a beach

2014-08-15 Thread Charlie
Doesn't help you HEAR any better! Generally, on top band, even with my modest inverted- L with a few elevated radials, if could hear 'em I could work 'em! With 500 W. Best thing I ever did for myself was to put up some quiet terminated receiving loops, so I could hear much better! 73,

Re: Topband: Fw: Modeling the proverbial vertical on a beach

2014-08-15 Thread Guy Olinger K2AV
You would certainly be correct about the exposure. The site of the N4A Core Banks experience I related no longer exists in the same configuration. In 2011, Hurricane Irene removed 350 feet depth of shore line, moving the shoreline 350 feet west by northwest. So the then first 350 feet of walking

Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial vertical on a beach

2014-08-15 Thread Carl
Nope but the RX antennas usually allow you dig a long way below the TX antenna noise. Most of the world isnt so lucky to have a selection of RX antennas or if they do the local QRN is too loud; another 10dB often helps (-; Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie

Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial vertical on a beach

2014-08-15 Thread JC
If it was really 10-20 dB, shore locations would stand out like a sore thumb compared to inland locations. Everyone from around New England is about the same. Heck, K3LR is on the Ohio/PA border and does just as well or better than coastal stations in signal levels. Hi Tom Costal stations are