Re: Topband: RUSSIAN 160 METER CONTES

[Eugene Popov /RA0FF/]

 Yes, Mike, yes , like my every year question about the Asian part of Russia in 
this test .
Not Siberia , namely the Russian Far East .
For 160m UA9 and UA0 is quite different countries , the difference is quite 
substantial 4,000 kilometers .
UA0 do not need this test , unfortunately...


73! de Eugene RA0FF
http://www.qsl.net/ra0ff/

>Четверг, 17 декабря 2015, 18:43 -06:00 от Mike Waters :
>
>That question gets asked every year. :-)
>
>73, Mike
>www.w0btu.com
>
>On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Herbert Schoenbohm <
>herbert.schoenb...@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>> VladimirWhy not at least hold at least a small portion of the
>> contest when it is not still daylight in the U.S.?
>>
>_
>Topband Reflector Archives -  http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
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Re: Topband: rohn insulators

[Stan Stockton]

Those look identical to the ones I made for my 8m 4 Square Towers.
Use G10, not just any fiberglass.  The G10 rod is more like $20.00 per
foot retail, unless you do a little searching.  The one thing I would
do differently is add a washer over the machined ends of the
fiberglass insulators to put a flat against the unturned portion of
the insulator instead of the sharp edges from the ends of the tower
legs.  Those sharp edges can splinter the fiberglass.  Also if you
span the joint with flat G10 material (maybe 4 inches wide by 18
inches long by 3/8 inches thick) it will at least reduce if not
eliminate the lateral movement.

I have Fiberglas rod guying them now but for many years had four 70
foot towers unguyed with this setup at the base.

It is interesting that a lot of hams are let's say "thrifty" but when
it comes to having something made or making it themselves to save
hundreds or even thousands of dollars, many will pay whatever it takes
to buy the end product.

http://k5go.com/40-meters/

73...Stan, K5GO





> On Dec 17, 2015, at 10:43 PM, Merv Schweigert  wrote:
>
> 20 mins work with a 5.00 fibre glass rod spun in a lathe,
> sort of grossly overpriced exaggeration of a Rohn insulator.
>
>> I believe there is a slight misrepresentation here. I've never seen these in 
>> any Rohn catalog. Rather than
>> calling them Rohn 25 tower insulators, I think they are better described as 
>> insulators for Rohn 25 tower.
>>
>> 73, Roger
>>
>>
>>> On 12/17/2015 7:49 PM, w5...@towerfarm.net wrote:
>>> ok,the station wanting the insulators for a rohn 25.there is a set 
>>> available from ab5k.he is listing them on e-bay set of 3.look for dxer49 on 
>>> e-bay.I believe they are new..73 john
>>> _
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>> _
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
_
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Re: Topband: rohn insulators

[Lloyd - N9LB]

Nice web site, Stan!

One of the pix says you paint your antennas with "icephobic paint".  Are you
kidding or is there paint that is less likely to build up ice?  Can you give
us details about that?

73

Lloyd - N9LB

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Stan
Stockton
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 4:59 AM
To: Merv Schweigert 
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: rohn insulators

Those look identical to the ones I made for my 8m 4 Square Towers.
Use G10, not just any fiberglass.  The G10 rod is more like $20.00 per foot
retail, unless you do a little searching.  The one thing I would do
differently is add a washer over the machined ends of the fiberglass
insulators to put a flat against the unturned portion of the insulator
instead of the sharp edges from the ends of the tower legs.  Those sharp
edges can splinter the fiberglass.  Also if you span the joint with flat G10
material (maybe 4 inches wide by 18 inches long by 3/8 inches thick) it will
at least reduce if not eliminate the lateral movement.

I have Fiberglas rod guying them now but for many years had four 70 foot
towers unguyed with this setup at the base.

It is interesting that a lot of hams are let's say "thrifty" but when it
comes to having something made or making it themselves to save hundreds or
even thousands of dollars, many will pay whatever it takes to buy the end
product.

http://k5go.com/40-meters/

73...Stan, K5GO





> On Dec 17, 2015, at 10:43 PM, Merv Schweigert  wrote:
>
> 20 mins work with a 5.00 fibre glass rod spun in a lathe, sort of 
> grossly overpriced exaggeration of a Rohn insulator.
>
>> I believe there is a slight misrepresentation here. I've never seen 
>> these in any Rohn catalog. Rather than calling them Rohn 25 tower
insulators, I think they are better described as insulators for Rohn 25
tower.
>>
>> 73, Roger
>>
>>
>>> On 12/17/2015 7:49 PM, w5...@towerfarm.net wrote:
>>> ok,the station wanting the insulators for a rohn 25.there is a set 
>>> available from ab5k.he is listing them on e-bay set of 3.look for 
>>> dxer49 on e-bay.I believe they are new..73 john _ 
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>> _
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
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Topband: G10, GPO3 was Re: rohn insulators

[Tim Shoppa]

I notice that the G10 insulators I have made (wire insulators, turned or
cut on my crude home tools... I don't have a tower!) start out "G10 green"
but then turn brown after a few years in the weather. I suspect this is UV
although I cannot rule out cut fiber ends absorbing something (moisture?)
and then turning brown. It seems somewhat worse at the rough cuts I have
made than on the "shiny from factory" surfaces although both turn brown.
This browning never happens in indoor G10 applications.

Is this entirely cosmetic?

I really like G10 as a material in the workshop because it combines
toughness with being easy to work (especially the ability to punch holes in
thin sheets.)

I have also been using the red GPO3 Electrical Fiberglass in indoor HV
applications, it is a very nice material but wears the heck out of saws or
drills that are not carbide. I might try some outside.

Tim N3QE

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 5:59 AM, Stan Stockton  wrote:

> Those look identical to the ones I made for my 8m 4 Square Towers.
> Use G10, not just any fiberglass.  The G10 rod is more like $20.00 per
> foot retail, unless you do a little searching.  The one thing I would
> do differently is add a washer over the machined ends of the
> fiberglass insulators to put a flat against the unturned portion of
> the insulator instead of the sharp edges from the ends of the tower
> legs.  Those sharp edges can splinter the fiberglass.  Also if you
> span the joint with flat G10 material (maybe 4 inches wide by 18
> inches long by 3/8 inches thick) it will at least reduce if not
> eliminate the lateral movement.
>
> I have Fiberglas rod guying them now but for many years had four 70
> foot towers unguyed with this setup at the base.
>
> It is interesting that a lot of hams are let's say "thrifty" but when
> it comes to having something made or making it themselves to save
> hundreds or even thousands of dollars, many will pay whatever it takes
> to buy the end product.
>
> http://k5go.com/40-meters/
>
> 73...Stan, K5GO
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 17, 2015, at 10:43 PM, Merv Schweigert  wrote:
> >
> > 20 mins work with a 5.00 fibre glass rod spun in a lathe,
> > sort of grossly overpriced exaggeration of a Rohn insulator.
> >
> >> I believe there is a slight misrepresentation here. I've never seen
> these in any Rohn catalog. Rather than
> >> calling them Rohn 25 tower insulators, I think they are better
> described as insulators for Rohn 25 tower.
> >>
> >> 73, Roger
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 12/17/2015 7:49 PM, w5...@towerfarm.net wrote:
> >>> ok,the station wanting the insulators for a rohn 25.there is a set
> available from ab5k.he is listing them on e-bay set of 3.look for dxer49 on
> e-bay.I believe they are new..73 john
> >>> _
> >>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >> _
> >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
> > _
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
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Re: Topband: rohn insulators

[Stan Stockton]

Wearlon Super F-1 Icephoebic paint.  If you look at that website somewhere you 
will see a picture of a tape measure showing 2-1/8 inches of radial ice that I 
had on everything.  Despite antennas that were built for a lot of ice and 
elements rated at 130-150 mph wind, I had a few failures with that much ice.  I 
think I had two 20m elements break that were over five inches in diameter 
(yikes) with the full load of ice.   All the 40m elements broke and two booms 
broke.  Granted we have never seen another ice storm like that since.  Not sure 
"how" effective the paint is after a decade, but no question it is effective.  
After it is applied it is slick, like silicone.  You can put water on it and it 
beads up like something that has Rain X.

The last time I used it, I rolled it on instead of spraying.  No overspray and 
it's expensive.

73...Stan, K5GO

> On Dec 18, 2015, at 7:44 AM, Lloyd - N9LB  wrote:
> 
> Nice web site, Stan!
> 
> One of the pix says you paint your antennas with "icephobic paint".  Are you
> kidding or is there paint that is less likely to build up ice?  Can you give
> us details about that?
> 
> 73
> 
> Lloyd - N9LB
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Stan
> Stockton
> Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 4:59 AM
> To: Merv Schweigert 
> Cc: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: rohn insulators
> 
> Those look identical to the ones I made for my 8m 4 Square Towers.
> Use G10, not just any fiberglass.  The G10 rod is more like $20.00 per foot
> retail, unless you do a little searching.  The one thing I would do
> differently is add a washer over the machined ends of the fiberglass
> insulators to put a flat against the unturned portion of the insulator
> instead of the sharp edges from the ends of the tower legs.  Those sharp
> edges can splinter the fiberglass.  Also if you span the joint with flat G10
> material (maybe 4 inches wide by 18 inches long by 3/8 inches thick) it will
> at least reduce if not eliminate the lateral movement.
> 
> I have Fiberglas rod guying them now but for many years had four 70 foot
> towers unguyed with this setup at the base.
> 
> It is interesting that a lot of hams are let's say "thrifty" but when it
> comes to having something made or making it themselves to save hundreds or
> even thousands of dollars, many will pay whatever it takes to buy the end
> product.
> 
> http://k5go.com/40-meters/
> 
> 73...Stan, K5GO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 10:43 PM, Merv Schweigert  wrote:
>> 
>> 20 mins work with a 5.00 fibre glass rod spun in a lathe, sort of 
>> grossly overpriced exaggeration of a Rohn insulator.
>> 
>>> I believe there is a slight misrepresentation here. I've never seen 
>>> these in any Rohn catalog. Rather than calling them Rohn 25 tower
> insulators, I think they are better described as insulators for Rohn 25
> tower.
>>> 
>>> 73, Roger
>>> 
>>> 
 On 12/17/2015 7:49 PM, w5...@towerfarm.net wrote:
 ok,the station wanting the insulators for a rohn 25.there is a set 
 available from ab5k.he is listing them on e-bay set of 3.look for 
 dxer49 on e-bay.I believe they are new..73 john _ 
 Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>> _
>>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>> 
>> _
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
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Re: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors

[mstangelo]

Larry,

My cable company recently replaced the coax to my house.

The Compression type F connector they used had an additional rubber gasket on 
the front so that it would make a watertight seal to the lightning arrestor 
bulkhead.

Mike N2MS

- Original Message -
From: Larry K4AB 
To: topband@contesting.com
Sent: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 02:43:56 - (UTC)
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors

I'm in the process of installing a receive 4 square for 160
using F type connectors and high quality flooded RG-6.

Do these things need additional weatherproofing?

As I recall all the many cable TV installations I have had
over the decades, done by major cable and satellite companies,
none have been weatherproofed.

If its good enough for those guys, at those frequencies,
shouldn't it be good for us at 1.8 MHz?


73,
Larry K4AB
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Re: Topband: 160M ant advice

[Gene Smar]

Bob:
 
 I built my shunt feed wire cage based on the design in Jeff Bigg's K1ZM 
book "DXing on the Edge..."  I bought it from the ARRL bookstore but you might 
be able to find it on Amazon, etc.  I used two widely-spaced wires whereas he 
used three in a triangular form held off the side of his tower with PVC pipe.  
I was surprised at how well it seems to work for me ( I always get through and 
receive good reports.)  Good luck.
 
 
73 de
Gene Smar  AD3F
 



On 12/18/15, Robert Harmon wrote:

Stan,

With shunt feed I would gain the 18 foot mast with the yagis, the total 
overall height is 108 feet.
I haven't really considered shunt feeding. I see your point of the 
wires with an L in proximity to other
antennas. That was a worry I had with the 40 meter yagi and the L. I 
will look into shunt feeding. I have ON4UN's book, probably should 
start there to bone up. Any other resources to learn abut shunt feeding ?
The top band archives probably has a lot of discussions about shunt 
feeding also.

thanks Stan,
Bob
K6UJ



On 12/18/15 1:36 AM, Stan Stockton wrote:
> Bob,
>
> There is no reason I can think of to not shunt feed the tower as it is with 
> either ground radials or elevated radials. An inverted L isn't as good as a 
> vertical for DX and you would just be adding clutter and horizontal wires in 
> proximity to your other antennas. Shunt feeding a tower is very, very simple.
>
> 73... Stan, K5GO
>
>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 8:06 PM, Robert Harmon k...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>
>> I am planning an install of a 160M inverted L and would like critique from 
>> you top banders.
>> I was originally planning a separate tower for 160 but my XYL has squashed 
>> the idea :-)
>> My tower is 90 feet fully extended with a 18 foot mast currently used for a 
>> Force 12 WARC plus 10/15 beam
>> on top and a N6BT DXU-32, 2EL 40 and 3EL 20 12 feet below.
>> At the top of the top section I have a 10 foot fiberglass pole I plan to 
>> extend out to support the vertical, so it will be 10 feet away from the 
>> tower.
>> I am thinking of feeding the vertical and having 4 elevated radials at the 
>> 14 foot level.
>> So the vertical wire will about 76 feet long.
>>
>> I am wondering if I would be better lowering the feedpoint & radial tie ins 
>> down from 14 feet say to 8 feet and have more length in the vertical portion 
>> of the L or better to have the 14 feet elevation for the radials ?
>>
>> Also the horizontal leg of the L on top will be about 5 feet below the 40/20 
>> yagi only 10 feet out from the tower,
>> do you think this is OK as far as interaction between the yagi and the 160 L 
>> ? Anything else I should consider ?
>> I have never had a decent 160 antenna, just hoping I can work something out 
>> with my existing situation
>>
>> thanks in advance,
>>
>> Bob
>> K6UJ
>>
>> _
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>

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Re: Topband: 160M ant advice

[Robert Harmon]

Gene,

The cage design sounds very interesting.  I just ordered the book :-)

thanks Gene,
Bob
K6UJ




On 12/18/15 9:27 AM, Gene Smar wrote:

Bob:
  
  I built my shunt feed wire cage based on the design in Jeff Bigg's K1ZM book "DXing on the Edge..."  I bought it from the ARRL bookstore but you might be able to find it on Amazon, etc.  I used two widely-spaced wires whereas he used three in a triangular form held off the side of his tower with PVC pipe.  I was surprised at how well it seems to work for me ( I always get through and receive good reports.)  Good luck.
  
  
73 de

Gene Smar  AD3F
  




On 12/18/15, Robert Harmon wrote:

Stan,

With shunt feed I would gain the 18 foot mast with the yagis, the total
overall height is 108 feet.
I haven't really considered shunt feeding. I see your point of the
wires with an L in proximity to other
antennas. That was a worry I had with the 40 meter yagi and the L. I
will look into shunt feeding. I have ON4UN's book, probably should
start there to bone up. Any other resources to learn abut shunt feeding ?
The top band archives probably has a lot of discussions about shunt
feeding also.

thanks Stan,
Bob
K6UJ



On 12/18/15 1:36 AM, Stan Stockton wrote:

Bob,

There is no reason I can think of to not shunt feed the tower as it is with 
either ground radials or elevated radials. An inverted L isn't as good as a 
vertical for DX and you would just be adding clutter and horizontal wires in 
proximity to your other antennas. Shunt feeding a tower is very, very simple.

73... Stan, K5GO


On Dec 17, 2015, at 8:06 PM, Robert Harmon k...@pacbell.net> wrote:

I am planning an install of a 160M inverted L and would like critique from you 
top banders.
I was originally planning a separate tower for 160 but my XYL has squashed the 
idea :-)
My tower is 90 feet fully extended with a 18 foot mast currently used for a 
Force 12 WARC plus 10/15 beam
on top and a N6BT DXU-32, 2EL 40 and 3EL 20 12 feet below.
At the top of the top section I have a 10 foot fiberglass pole I plan to extend 
out to support the vertical, so it will be 10 feet away from the tower.
I am thinking of feeding the vertical and having 4 elevated radials at the 14 
foot level.
So the vertical wire will about 76 feet long.

I am wondering if I would be better lowering the feedpoint & radial tie ins 
down from 14 feet say to 8 feet and have more length in the vertical portion of the 
L or better to have the 14 feet elevation for the radials ?

Also the horizontal leg of the L on top will be about 5 feet below the 40/20 
yagi only 10 feet out from the tower,
do you think this is OK as far as interaction between the yagi and the 160 L ? 
Anything else I should consider ?
I have never had a decent 160 antenna, just hoping I can work something out 
with my existing situation

thanks in advance,

Bob
K6UJ

_
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Re: Topband: 160M ant advice

[Herbert Schoenbohm]

It is important to realize that a cage just hung of the side of a steel 
tower has some drawbacks. The pattern when modeled is somewhat 
asymmetrical to a slight degree. In a properly designed cage feed it is 
the cage that does the radiating and not the tower. (Above the cage is 
mainly the voltage part of the radiator.)  This is also important 
because the tower downwind of the cage may interact.  With a symmetrical 
cage around the tower that is not the case.  Also another advantage of 
the symmetrical cage is the reduction of RF pickup on rotor wires, coax 
feed lines to other antennas, and certain control lines for switching.   
Jeff's intentions were good in pioneering the "easy cage"idea.  But one 
thing that may influence some people are the aesthetics of a beautiful 
four wire symmetrical cage to something hanging of the side of your 
tower.But for me the most impressive was the ease of installation as 
compared to the list of material required in the asymmetrical cage.  
There may also be a slight increase of bandwidth with a symmetrical 
cage  as claimed by some.



Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ

On 12/18/2015 1:44 PM, Robert Harmon wrote:

Gene,

The cage design sounds very interesting.  I just ordered the book :-)

thanks Gene,
Bob
K6UJ




On 12/18/15 9:27 AM, Gene Smar wrote:

Bob:
I built my shunt feed wire cage based on the design in Jeff 
Bigg's K1ZM book "DXing on the Edge..."  I bought it from the ARRL 
bookstore but you might be able to find it on Amazon, etc.  I used 
two widely-spaced wires whereas he used three in a triangular form 
held off the side of his tower with PVC pipe.  I was surprised at how 
well it seems to work for me ( I always get through and receive good 
reports.)  Good luck.

73 de
Gene Smar  AD3F



On 12/18/15, Robert Harmon wrote:

Stan,

With shunt feed I would gain the 18 foot mast with the yagis, the total
overall height is 108 feet.
I haven't really considered shunt feeding. I see your point of the
wires with an L in proximity to other
antennas. That was a worry I had with the 40 meter yagi and the L. I
will look into shunt feeding. I have ON4UN's book, probably should
start there to bone up. Any other resources to learn abut shunt 
feeding ?

The top band archives probably has a lot of discussions about shunt
feeding also.

thanks Stan,
Bob
K6UJ



On 12/18/15 1:36 AM, Stan Stockton wrote:

Bob,

There is no reason I can think of to not shunt feed the tower as it 
is with either ground radials or elevated radials. An inverted L 
isn't as good as a vertical for DX and you would just be adding 
clutter and horizontal wires in proximity to your other antennas. 
Shunt feeding a tower is very, very simple.


73... Stan, K5GO


On Dec 17, 2015, at 8:06 PM, Robert Harmon k...@pacbell.net> wrote:

I am planning an install of a 160M inverted L and would like 
critique from you top banders.
I was originally planning a separate tower for 160 but my XYL has 
squashed the idea :-)
My tower is 90 feet fully extended with a 18 foot mast currently 
used for a Force 12 WARC plus 10/15 beam

on top and a N6BT DXU-32, 2EL 40 and 3EL 20 12 feet below.
At the top of the top section I have a 10 foot fiberglass pole I 
plan to extend out to support the vertical, so it will be 10 feet 
away from the tower.
I am thinking of feeding the vertical and having 4 elevated radials 
at the 14 foot level.

So the vertical wire will about 76 feet long.

I am wondering if I would be better lowering the feedpoint & radial 
tie ins down from 14 feet say to 8 feet and have more length in the 
vertical portion of the L or better to have the 14 feet elevation 
for the radials ?


Also the horizontal leg of the L on top will be about 5 feet below 
the 40/20 yagi only 10 feet out from the tower,
do you think this is OK as far as interaction between the yagi and 
the 160 L ? Anything else I should consider ?
I have never had a decent 160 antenna, just hoping I can work 
something out with my existing situation


thanks in advance,

Bob
K6UJ

_
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Re: Topband: 160M ant advice

[Robert Harmon]

Stan,

With shunt feed I would gain the 18 foot mast with the yagis, the total 
overall height is 108 feet.
I haven't really considered shunt feeding.  I see your point of the 
wires with an L in proximity to other
antennas.  That was a worry I had with the 40 meter yagi and the L. I 
will look into shunt feeding.  I have ON4UN's book, probably should 
start there to bone up.  Any other resources to learn abut shunt feeding ?
The top band archives probably has a lot of discussions about shunt 
feeding also.


thanks Stan,
Bob
K6UJ



On 12/18/15 1:36 AM, Stan Stockton wrote:

Bob,

There is no reason I can think of to not shunt feed the tower as it is with 
either ground radials or elevated radials.  An inverted L isn't as good as a 
vertical for DX and you would just be adding clutter and horizontal wires in 
proximity to your other antennas.  Shunt feeding a tower is very, very simple.

73... Stan, K5GO


On Dec 17, 2015, at 8:06 PM, Robert Harmon  wrote:

I am planning an install of a 160M inverted L  and would like critique from you 
top banders.
I was originally planning a separate tower for 160 but my XYL has squashed the 
idea  :-)
My tower is 90 feet fully extended with a 18 foot mast currently used for a 
Force 12 WARC plus 10/15 beam
on top and a N6BT DXU-32, 2EL 40 and 3EL 20  12 feet below.
At the top of the top section I have a 10 foot fiberglass pole I plan to extend 
out to support the vertical, so it will be 10 feet away from the tower.
I am thinking of feeding the vertical and having 4 elevated radials at the 14 
foot level.
So the vertical wire will about 76 feet long.

I am wondering if I would be better lowering the feedpoint & radial tie ins 
down from 14 feet say to 8 feet and have more length in the vertical portion of the 
L or better to have the 14 feet elevation for the radials ?

Also the horizontal leg of the L on top will be about 5 feet below the 40/20 
yagi only 10 feet out from the tower,
do you think this is OK as far as interaction between the yagi and the 160 L ?  
Anything else I should consider ?
I have never had a decent 160 antenna, just hoping I can work something out 
with my existing situation

thanks in advance,

Bob
K6UJ

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Topband: antenna modification

[David Michael Gaytko // WD4KPD]

have hy-18ht with 80/160 tapped coil.

would like to try the inverted L configuration.  i do not have a 40m 
trap as provided in the L kit, but i have no need for 40m at this time.


so if i just don't use 40m, could i remove the 160 section from the coil 
and simply add the L extension to resonance ?


just wish to compare the two configs, and probably will not be a 
permanent addition.


david/wd4kpd


--
God's law is written in stone...all else is negotiable.

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Re: Topband: 160M ant advice

[Herbert Schoenbohm]

If you have such a structure IMHO the best thing you can do is to shunt 
feed it.  It is really easy to do.  Just drop a three or four wire 
"cage" down from the 60 foot level supported by two pieces of galvanized 
water pipe extending each about 24-36 inches from the tower. . and 
feed the wires at the bottom with a series capacitor or two capacitors 
with an Omega match. You can then tap this wire down to the tower at two 
foot increments.To prevent having to move a "sweet point" tap up and 
down the tower it may be easier to measure the impedance and the 
inductive reactance and make a network to match what you have.  The 
three or four drop wires should be at least 24 inches from the tower and 
can avoid changes with wire sway by holding them tight with some nice 
hardware store springs after you attach some good porcelain insulators. 
In my case I use a flat wound AM BC coil to ground which is tapped from 
the ground up and a series vacuum cap from the cage wire to the coil so 
i can get a perfect match.  This way I can use a single coil and a 
single variable and by tapping the coil I can cover  a wide range of 
impedance.  For a really great synopsis of information of shunt feed 
methodology just visit W8JI.com and it is all there for you.



herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ

On 12/18/2015 1:11 PM, Robert Harmon wrote:

Stan,

With shunt feed I would gain the 18 foot mast with the yagis, the 
total overall height is 108 feet.
I haven't really considered shunt feeding.  I see your point of the 
wires with an L in proximity to other
antennas.  That was a worry I had with the 40 meter yagi and the L. I 
will look into shunt feeding.  I have ON4UN's book, probably should 
start there to bone up.  Any other resources to learn abut shunt 
feeding ?
The top band archives probably has a lot of discussions about shunt 
feeding also.


thanks Stan,
Bob
K6UJ



On 12/18/15 1:36 AM, Stan Stockton wrote:

Bob,

There is no reason I can think of to not shunt feed the tower as it 
is with either ground radials or elevated radials.  An inverted L 
isn't as good as a vertical for DX and you would just be adding 
clutter and horizontal wires in proximity to your other antennas.  
Shunt feeding a tower is very, very simple.


73... Stan, K5GO


On Dec 17, 2015, at 8:06 PM, Robert Harmon  wrote:

I am planning an install of a 160M inverted L  and would like 
critique from you top banders.
I was originally planning a separate tower for 160 but my XYL has 
squashed the idea  :-)
My tower is 90 feet fully extended with a 18 foot mast currently 
used for a Force 12 WARC plus 10/15 beam

on top and a N6BT DXU-32, 2EL 40 and 3EL 20  12 feet below.
At the top of the top section I have a 10 foot fiberglass pole I 
plan to extend out to support the vertical, so it will be 10 feet 
away from the tower.
I am thinking of feeding the vertical and having 4 elevated radials 
at the 14 foot level.

So the vertical wire will about 76 feet long.

I am wondering if I would be better lowering the feedpoint & radial 
tie ins down from 14 feet say to 8 feet and have more length in the 
vertical portion of the L or better to have the 14 feet elevation 
for the radials ?


Also the horizontal leg of the L on top will be about 5 feet below 
the 40/20 yagi only 10 feet out from the tower,
do you think this is OK as far as interaction between the yagi and 
the 160 L ?  Anything else I should consider ?
I have never had a decent 160 antenna, just hoping I can work 
something out with my existing situation


thanks in advance,

Bob
K6UJ

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Re: Topband: 160M ant advice

[Robert Harmon]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for all the info and advice on putting up a 160M antenna.
I have received help both on and off the reflector.
I wasn't sure whether to post the question because I know you have 
discussed

this many times before !

thanks, much appreciated !

73,
Bob
K6UJ


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Topband: 160M Propagation

[Dennis]

I recently operated as CX/W1UE, from Uruguay.  I had difficulty hearing 
stations on most nights,
but the night from 2200Z Thursday Dec 10 to 0600Z Friday Dec 11, I had 
no trouble hearing
stations on either 160 or 80M.  I worked more stations in that 8 hour 
time period that I did in
20 hours spread over 2 weeks.  I keep coming back to the same question- 
why?


Since I have never operated from CX before, I have nothing to evaluate 
the 2 weeks against.

Did that night have exceptional low band propagation?

For that one night, I had no problems hearing anyone, it seemed.  I 
worked as far east as UA9
in Z18 on 80M,  and a dozen Europeans on 160M.  Stations that I never 
heard before or after
that night.  I'm trying to figure out how I heard so well on that night, 
but not on the other 10 nights

where I also tried to make 80/160M QSOs.  I can't explain it.

Dennis CX/W1UE now just W1UE.

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Re: Topband: 160M Propagation

[Olof Lundberg]

Dennis - it would be interesting to know when your qsos occurred in relation to 
your local midnight or the midpoint midnight and to the greylines. 
73 Olof G0CKV

Sent from my iPad

> On 18 Dec 2015, at 19:48, Dennis  wrote:
> 
> I recently operated as CX/W1UE, from Uruguay.  I had difficulty hearing 
> stations on most nights,
> but the night from 2200Z Thursday Dec 10 to 0600Z Friday Dec 11, I had no 
> trouble hearing
> stations on either 160 or 80M.  I worked more stations in that 8 hour time 
> period that I did in
> 20 hours spread over 2 weeks.  I keep coming back to the same question- why?
> 
>  I have never operated from CX before, I have nothing to evaluate the 2 weeks 
> against.
> Did that night have exceptional low band propagation?
> 
> For that one night, I had no problems hearing anyone, it seemed.  I worked as 
> far east as UA9
> in Z18 on 80M,  and a dozen Europeans on 160M.  Stations that I never heard 
> before or after
> that night.  I'm trying to figure out how I heard so well on that night, but 
> not on the other 10 nights
> where I also tried to make 80/160M QSOs.  I can't explain it.
> 
> Dennis CX/W1UE now just W1UE.
> 
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
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Re: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors

[Bill Hider]

Thanks Mike,



>From Home Depot:
Super Lube,  Model # 91003, Internet # 202932695 


Bill N3RR


 

 

From: Mike Waters [mailto:mikew...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 8:02 PM
To: Bill Hider
Cc: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors

 

I don't, sorry. It's available at auto parts stores. And a Google search for 
"silicone dielectric" should return lots of results.

73, Mike

www.w0btu.com

 

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 6:55 PM, Bill Hider  wrote:

Do you have a part number/manufacturer for the "non-hardening silicone
dielectric "grease"?

 

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7294 / Virus Database: 4489/11204 - Release Date: 12/18/15

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Re: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors

[Kenneth Grimm]

From an auto supply store (Advance or Autozone) VersaChem part no. 15339 -
Dielectirc Connector Grease.

73,

Ken - K4XL

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 8:07 PM, Bill Hider  wrote:

>
> Thanks Mike,
>
>
>
> From Home Depot:
> Super Lube,  Model # 91003, Internet # 202932695
>
>
> Bill N3RR
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Mike Waters [mailto:mikew...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 8:02 PM
> To: Bill Hider
> Cc: topband
> Subject: Re: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors
>
>
>
> I don't, sorry. It's available at auto parts stores. And a Google search
> for "silicone dielectric" should return lots of results.
>
> 73, Mike
>
> www.w0btu.com
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 6:55 PM, Bill Hider  wrote:
>
> Do you have a part number/manufacturer for the "non-hardening silicone
> dielectric "grease"?
>
>
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2016.0.7294 / Virus Database: 4489/11204 - Release Date: 12/18/15
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>



-- 
Ken - K4XL
BoatAnchor Manual Archive
BAMA - http://bama.edebris.com

"Show me a politician who is poor, and I'll show you a poor
politician." - Carlos
Hank González
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Topband: RG6 Coax and F connectors

[Mike via Topband]

  
I'm putting in a Hi-Z Rx array for 160m and at the suggestion of Lee K7TJR  
bought coax and F connectors at 3 Star, Inc http://www.3starinc.com/.  
Purchased  1000' of flooded direct bury quad shield RG6 (F677TSEF) for $70 and 
compression  F connectors for $0.28 apiece (PPC EX6WS).  Thought this might 
be  of value to others installing similar arrays.  Hope to get this in by the 
 Stew.  I have 77 worked on 160 on my inverted L in 2 years of Top Band  
operating and I sure hope this gets me to 100 (and 9 band DXCC), maybe even 
yet  this season. :)  Hope to pull Eugene RA0FF and others out of the  noise 
one morning--I can hear you are there, just not quite good enough to hear  my 
call.  Good luck and Happy Holidays to all.  
 
73
 
Mike KD8RQE
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Re: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors

[Robert Harmon]

Renee speaks the truth :-)

I use these connectors myself Larry.  They have a double o-ring seal and 
are indeed water proof.

Have been using them for quite some time now outside and no water intrusion.
I would advise to get a good quality compression tool.  You will be glad 
you did.  PCT sells

good pro ones from their website but I found them cheaper on Amazon.

73,
Bob
K6UJ

On 12/18/15 2:33 PM, Renee K6FSB wrote:

Hi Larry-
two possible kinds F Connectors, maybe more 1. O ring inside the 
fitting  look for ( PCT International) PCT-TRS-6LMG
or 2. on the exterior like a rubber nose (Belden) PPC EX6WS note this 
connector is a bit larger in diametre on the "nut", there is also a XL 
version.
most likely #2, the Direct TV guy installed #1 type on a recent 
install and claimed to have zero issues.

if you do an epay search you will find the connectors
hope this helps.
73, Merry Christmas
Renée, K6FSB



mstang...@comcast.net wrote:

Larry,

My cable company recently replaced the coax to my house.

The Compression type F connector they used had an additional rubber 
gasket on the front so that it would make a watertight seal to the 
lightning arrestor bulkhead.


Mike N2MS

- Original Message -
From: Larry K4AB 
To: topband@contesting.com
Sent: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 02:43:56 - (UTC)
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors

I'm in the process of installing a receive 4 square for 160
using F type connectors and high quality flooded RG-6.

Do these things need additional weatherproofing?

As I recall all the many cable TV installations I have had
over the decades, done by major cable and satellite companies,
none have been weatherproofed.

If its good enough for those guys, at those frequencies,
shouldn't it be good for us at 1.8 MHz?


73,
Larry K4AB
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Re: Topband: G10, GPO3 was Re: rohn insulators

[George Dubovsky]

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 8:57 AM, Tim Shoppa  wrote:

> I notice that the G10 insulators I have made (wire insulators, turned or
> cut on my crude home tools... I don't have a tower!) start out "G10 green"
> but then turn brown after a few years in the weather. I suspect this is UV
> although I cannot rule out cut fiber ends absorbing something (moisture?)
> and then turning brown. It seems somewhat worse at the rough cuts I have
> made than on the "shiny from factory" surfaces although both turn brown.
> This browning never happens in indoor G10 applications.
>

​It's UV degradation.​


>
> Is this entirely cosmetic?
>

​It's structural damage. The next step is for the binder to disappear from
the surface, leaving the fiber strands to stand out like a rough pair of
wool socks. A coat of just about any exterior paint will protect the
material. I use Rustoleum and I have some fiberglass insulators in service
for over 10 years with no apparent degradation.

73,

geo - n4ua


> I really like G10 as a material in the workshop because it combines
> toughness with being easy to work (especially the ability to punch holes in
> thin sheets.)
>
> I have also been using the red GPO3 Electrical Fiberglass in indoor HV
> applications, it is a very nice material but wears the heck out of saws or
> drills that are not carbide. I might try some outside.
>
> Tim N3QE
>
> On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 5:59 AM, Stan Stockton  wrote:
>
> > Those look identical to the ones I made for my 8m 4 Square Towers.
> > Use G10, not just any fiberglass.  The G10 rod is more like $20.00 per
> > foot retail, unless you do a little searching.  The one thing I would
> > do differently is add a washer over the machined ends of the
> > fiberglass insulators to put a flat against the unturned portion of
> > the insulator instead of the sharp edges from the ends of the tower
> > legs.  Those sharp edges can splinter the fiberglass.  Also if you
> > span the joint with flat G10 material (maybe 4 inches wide by 18
> > inches long by 3/8 inches thick) it will at least reduce if not
> > eliminate the lateral movement.
> >
> > I have Fiberglas rod guying them now but for many years had four 70
> > foot towers unguyed with this setup at the base.
> >
> > It is interesting that a lot of hams are let's say "thrifty" but when
> > it comes to having something made or making it themselves to save
> > hundreds or even thousands of dollars, many will pay whatever it takes
> > to buy the end product.
> >
> > http://k5go.com/40-meters/
> >
> > 73...Stan, K5GO
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Dec 17, 2015, at 10:43 PM, Merv Schweigert  wrote:
> > >
> > > 20 mins work with a 5.00 fibre glass rod spun in a lathe,
> > > sort of grossly overpriced exaggeration of a Rohn insulator.
> > >
> > >> I believe there is a slight misrepresentation here. I've never seen
> > these in any Rohn catalog. Rather than
> > >> calling them Rohn 25 tower insulators, I think they are better
> > described as insulators for Rohn 25 tower.
> > >>
> > >> 73, Roger
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On 12/17/2015 7:49 PM, w5...@towerfarm.net wrote:
> > >>> ok,the station wanting the insulators for a rohn 25.there is a set
> > available from ab5k.he is listing them on e-bay set of 3.look for dxer49
> on
> > e-bay.I believe they are new..73 john
> > >>> _
> > >>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> > >> _
> > >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> > >
> > > _
> > > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> > _
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
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Re: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors

[Mike Waters]

O-rings are good. :-)

However, even if we use good waterproof F connectors with O-rings,
condensation --followed by corrosion-- can still occur when the outside
temperature drops.

For that reason, applying a sufficient amount of non-hardening silicone
dielectric "grease" to the center conductor *is still important*. It fills
the voids and excludes air (which will contain moisture) from the assembled
connector.

And if we run the legal limit through F connectors (which I and other hams
have done for years), silicone dielectric compound can help prevent arcing
inside the F connector.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 5:04 PM, Robert Harmon  wrote:

> Renee speaks the truth :-)
>
> I use these connectors myself Larry.  They have a double o-ring seal and
> are indeed water proof.
> Have been using them for quite some time now outside and no water
> intrusion.
> I would advise to get a good quality compression tool. ...
>
> On 12/18/15 2:33 PM, Renee K6FSB wrote:
>
>> ... F Connectors, maybe more 1. O ring inside the fitting  look for ( PCT
>> International) PCT-TRS-6LMG or 2. on the exterior like a rubber nose
>> (Belden)
>>
>
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Re: Topband: 160M Propagation

[Dennis]

Ollie

Started on 80M at 2306Z when I worked SM3EVR.
From 2306z-0150Z, all 80m, worked 11 Europeans.
Called CQ on 160M at 0145Z or so, worked 1 USA station.
Dinner was from 0150-0350z.
80M again, from 0350-0444 worked 19 Europeans.
Had advertised I would be on 160M at 0445Z, so I switched there.
0448-0610Z worked 12 Europeans.
0610-0655 now back on 80M worked another 27 Europeans.

Local midnight is 0300Z.

Dennis W1UE

On 12/18/2015 2:08 PM, Olof Lundberg wrote:

Dennis - it would be interesting to know when your qsos occurred in relation to 
your local midnight or the midpoint midnight and to the greylines.
73 Olof G0CKV

Sent from my iPad


On 18 Dec 2015, at 19:48, Dennis  wrote:

I recently operated as CX/W1UE, from Uruguay.  I had difficulty hearing 
stations on most nights,
but the night from 2200Z Thursday Dec 10 to 0600Z Friday Dec 11, I had no 
trouble hearing
stations on either 160 or 80M.  I worked more stations in that 8 hour time 
period that I did in
20 hours spread over 2 weeks.  I keep coming back to the same question- why?

  I have never operated from CX before, I have nothing to evaluate the 2 weeks 
against.
Did that night have exceptional low band propagation?

For that one night, I had no problems hearing anyone, it seemed.  I worked as 
far east as UA9
in Z18 on 80M,  and a dozen Europeans on 160M.  Stations that I never heard 
before or after
that night.  I'm trying to figure out how I heard so well on that night, but 
not on the other 10 nights
where I also tried to make 80/160M QSOs.  I can't explain it.

Dennis CX/W1UE now just W1UE.

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Re: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors

[Renee K6FSB]

Hi Larry-
two possible kinds F Connectors, maybe more 1. O ring inside the 
fitting  look for ( PCT International) PCT-TRS-6LMG
or 2. on the exterior like a rubber nose (Belden) PPC EX6WS note this 
connector is a bit larger in diametre on the "nut", there is also a XL 
version.
most likely #2, the Direct TV guy installed #1 type on a recent install 
and claimed to have zero issues.

if you do an epay search you will find the connectors
hope this helps.
73, Merry Christmas
Renée, K6FSB



mstang...@comcast.net wrote:

Larry,

My cable company recently replaced the coax to my house.

The Compression type F connector they used had an additional rubber gasket on 
the front so that it would make a watertight seal to the lightning arrestor 
bulkhead.

Mike N2MS

- Original Message -
From: Larry K4AB 
To: topband@contesting.com
Sent: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 02:43:56 - (UTC)
Subject: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors

I'm in the process of installing a receive 4 square for 160
using F type connectors and high quality flooded RG-6.

Do these things need additional weatherproofing?

As I recall all the many cable TV installations I have had
over the decades, done by major cable and satellite companies,
none have been weatherproofed.

If its good enough for those guys, at those frequencies,
shouldn't it be good for us at 1.8 MHz?


73,
Larry K4AB
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Re: Topband: safely sharing an RX antenna

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

On 12/18/2015 1:15 PM, Petr Ourednik wrote:

Hi

it sounds like SO2R on the same band... Its interresting for me too. I
am using one solution in CQ160m in order to use 2nd radio for S but
its disconnected from antenna and grounded as same as 1st radio in RUN
during TX period. So I am curious what other TBers are using...

73 - Petr, OK1RP


I have run SO2R single band in a number of 160 meter contests.
If the signal level at the receiver is anywhere near the damage
level, you won't be able to hear anything even if the receiver
is undamaged.  I used a loop receiving antenna 1000 feet from my
transmit antenna, and I carefully nulled out my own transmitter
by rotating the loop.  Worked pretty well even with just
a TS570 for the 2nd radio.

Rick N6RK
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Topband: 160m Antenna advice

[Craig Clark]

Bob:
 
 I built my shunt feed wire cage based on the design in Jeff Bigg's K1ZM
book "DXing on the Edge..."  I bought it from the ARRL bookstore but you
might be able to find it on Amazon, etc.  I used two widely-spaced wires
whereas he used three in a triangular form held off the side of his tower
with PVC pipe.  I was surprised at how well it seems to work for me ( I
always get through and receive good reports.)  Good luck.
 
 
73 de
Gene Smar  AD3F
 

Bob and Gene,

Seasons Greetings 

Over the years there have been a number of articles on using a cage to feed
a vertical antenna. Some of the ideas came from Laport's Antenna Engineering
book as well as in amateur radio magazines; DeMaw in QST in the early 70's
to name one.

I have been using the unipole design here in NH since 1979. I have a 12"
wire triangle 3' from the tower using 2x4"s as standoffs. Since this is
around a 200 ohm antenna, I use a step-up L network to feed the antenna.
Bottom line is it works.

Here are some references:

http://www.jmu.edu/wmra-eng/archive/mullaney-be.pdf

Oct 1975 QST page 25-26 by DeMaw (design I used)

>From Ham Radio Magazine

Shunt-fed tower (HN)N6HZ74  Nov 79  +

Shunt-feed systems for grounded vertical radiators, how to design   W4OQ
34  May 75 *many consider this article by John True a classic

Hope this helps

Craig 
Craig Clark K1QX
PO Box 209
107 Fitzgerald Rd
Rindge NH 03461
(603) 899-6103 office
(603) 520 6577 cell



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Re: Topband: safely sharing an RX antenna

[Petr Ourednik]

Hi

it sounds like SO2R on the same band... Its interresting for me too. I
am using one solution in CQ160m in order to use 2nd radio for S but
its disconnected from antenna and grounded as same as 1st radio in RUN
during TX period. So I am curious what other TBers are using...

73 - Petr, OK1RP

On Thu, Dec 17, 2015, at 07:06 AM, Bob Kupps via Topband wrote:
> Hi I was thinking about using a 3dB splitter and tuning the band with our
> second K3 using our HiZ monoband 8 circle while we were calling CQ in the
> Stew. The center of the array is located 105 meters from the xmit
> vertical, uses 20' elements, the included preamp and 100m of RG6
> transmission line. 
> Could dangerously high signal levels appear at the unmuted second radio
> antenna terminal? What about if the second radio is inadvertently tuned
> to the xmit frequency? It would seem impossible if the external antenna
> preamps are not damaged...but I'm still a 1R op so I better ask first!
> TU 73 Bob HS0ZIA
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