Re: Topband: Info wanted

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

The problem most likely is not the raised radials per se.

That he does not have space for buried radials most likely means he also
doesn't have space for full size, dense and uniform all around raised
radials either.

Without details, but after 5 years of hearing about what people have
actually done for "raised radials", in the abstract the most probable
situation is that the redials are irregular and insufficient, limited to
what is possible on a limited property. That in turn creates a significant
input impedance to the collection of radials. This in turn makes the
feedline coax shield an easier path than the collection of radials. This
effectively makes the coax shield the counterpoise. That in turn puts the
noise from the house and the power lines into the L feedpoint.

Even if a "balun" is used, unless it was specifically manufactured *** with
160 in mind ***, or constructed from something like K9YC's cookbook, ***
for 160 meters ***, it's likely to be very poor on 160 and will let in
stuff on the coax shield any way.

 An FCP and an isolation transformer has quieted down a lot of noisy
inverted L's. 1) Because the FCP counterpoise is isolated from ground and
2) it's folds make it an extremely poor RX antenna,  AND 3) it's isolated
from the feedline by the isolation transformer which has NO metallic path
between the coax shield and the counterpoise.

It has been a common report that converting to an FCP and isolation
transformer cut down on noise. My best interpretation on those reports is
that the noise was coming from the house using common mode entry from the
feed coax shield.

Have him take a look at k2av.com where these issues are discussed.  Also
see w4kaz.com where Kaz documents his migrating his inverted L from
"radials of convenience" to an FCP + isolation transformer.

73, Guy.

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 3:57 PM, K1FZ-Bruce  wrote:

> Have a friend that is getting noise from raised radials connected to his
> inverted L antenna.
>
>  He can not bury the radials due to space problems.
>
> Are there any  recent solutions to the problem.?
>
> Thank you in advance for your input. .
>
> 73
> Bruce-k1fz
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Info wanted

[Mike Waters]

YES! With elevated radials, a good common-mode choke at the feedpoint is a
must! I used a design from K9YC's RFI PDF.
IIRC, about 6 turns of coax through 5 stacked 2.4" #31 cores.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Oct 17, 2017 3:52 PM, "S57AD"  wrote:

Common mode choke, and maybe a relay to disconnect feeder from inv L and
raised radials.

73, Mirko, S57AD
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Info wanted

[S57AD]

Common mode choke, and maybe a relay to disconnect feeder from inv L and
raised radials.

73, Mirko, S57AD

2017-10-17 21:57 GMT+02:00 K1FZ-Bruce :

> Have a friend that is getting noise from raised radials connected to his
> inverted L antenna.
>
>  He can not bury the radials due to space problems.
>
> Are there any  recent solutions to the problem.?
>
> Thank you in advance for your input. .
>
> 73
> Bruce-k1fz
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>



-- 
Mirko S57AD
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: Info wanted

[K1FZ-Bruce]

Have a friend that is getting noise from raised radials connected to his 
inverted L antenna. 

 He can not bury the radials due to space problems.  

Are there any  recent solutions to the problem.?

Thank you in advance for your input. .

73
Bruce-k1fz
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: 3C0L

[Charlie Young]

My station has not been configured for Topband for this season yet.  All rx 
antennas are disconnected/removed and my inverted L has not been inspected yet. 
 Usually the elevated radials need maintenance after the summer if the wire is 
still up.

I saw 3C0L spotted for some time but did not listen because of the antenna 
situation.   After finally deciding to listen, the station on 1821 was so 
strong there was no way it could be 3C0L.  But it was.  I thought it was a NA 
signal.

Found that my inverted L VSWR was good, which indicated the antenna was still 
up and the elevated radials were still intact.  The pileup was big and wide, 
but he seemed to be working folks above 1830 so we parked on a frequency and 
started calling.  Glad to work him for a new 160 Challenge point.

Great operator and signal.  For the time I was listening he was at least 2 S 
units above my noise, many times peaking over S9 on my inverted L.   Whatever 
he was running sure did the job on Topband, plus he was hearing well also.

GL in the chase.

73 Charlie N8RR

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: 3C0L

[Kenneth Grimm]

I also heard 3C0L well before sundown and called for about 30 minutes.
Realizing that he was only coming back to Europeans, who were undoubtedly
much louder than I was considering that they were in full darkness and I
wasn't.  I watched TV for a while and when I heard them beginning to work
the US, I got interested again.  Another 30 minutes and I finally got
them.  This doesn't surprise me as I have wasted many kwh fruitlessly
calling Europeans before my sundown.  While I could hear them, they
obviously could not hear me.  I now tend to be much more patient and wait
until the mass of European big guns have got their QSO and the sun is well
down before calling.  Yesterday afternoon, I forgot my usual habit and
started calling when I didn't have a chance...an ATNO has that effect, I
guess!

Conditions were very good for the entire evening and I'm sure a very large
number of stations were able to get their contact.  The superb operating by
Yuris didn't hurt!  I will be interested to hear whether they were running
barefoot with the K3 or also had the SPE amplifier going.  They obviously
got their generator problems sorted out as there seemed to be continuous
operation.  Good conditions, good equipment, and a good operator is what it
takes for a successful expedition. Only two out of the three usually means
that the lids have much more fun.  Speaking of lids, I can usually forgive
the KC cop who sends "up" when someone forgets to push the split button,
but what gets my goat is the particularly vile person who gives a fake
report and the unsuspecting op believes he has made a QSO.  That kind of
behavior stinks!

I hope conditions continue to be good and those in the mid-west and west
manage to get their Qs.

73,

Ken - K4XL

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 9:48 AM, Tim Shoppa  wrote:

> 3C0L had superb signals on 160M last night and a ginormous pileup.
>
> Their signal started out an hour before my sundown, on my NE-facing K9AY
> loop, but began showing QSB there an hour after my sundown. I then checked
> and was surprised their signal was so much better on my transmit antenna.
> This is something I've noticed several times on African DXpeditions.
>
> I wonder if "Looking to the NE" makes sense before sundown because this my
> shortest path to the most darkness, but the further after sundown a more
> direct E or even southerly path makes more sense.
>
> Tim N3QE
>
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 3:45 AM, Victor Goncharsky via Topband <
> topband@contesting.com> wrote:
>
> > Sorry fat fingers, 3C0L, of course... great operation by two men crew
> with
> > one dead K3!
> >
> >
> > >Вторник, 17 октября 2017, 7:41 UTC от Victor Goncharsky via Topband <
> > topband@contesting.com>:
> > >
> > >Last night 3C0R have shown once again (remeber EP2A and S21ZED-E) how
> 160
> > meter DX operation, this time from Africa, has to look like. Respect to
> > Juris and Kaspars!
> > >
> > >
> >
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband




-- 
Ken - K4XL
BoatAnchor Manual Archive
BAMA - http://bama.edebris.com

“You see, the telephone is like a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in
New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Radio operates exactly the
same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only
difference is that there is no cat.”—*Albert Einstein
 (maybe)*
_
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Re: Topband: 3C0L

[K4SAV]

Great job by the 3C0L on 160.  They logged about 900 Qs last night on 
160.  They started slow but picked up steam later.  I can only imagine 
what that enormous pile must have sounded like on their end.


Also started hearing them 1 hour before my sunset, although weak at that 
time.  Later they peaked at about S7.  Typically ran S3 to S7 all 
night.  Solid copy from my sunset until their sunrise (except for the 
QRMers)  I wonder about the details of that short 160 antenna. They 
really had it playing well.  Best receiving antenna was a 365 ft BOG 
pointed right at them.  Normally my best receiving antenna is my phased 
EWEs but those were pointed at 45 degrees off them, so that's a 3 dB 
signal to noise loss, and the BOG was better.


Jerry, K4SAV
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: 3C0L

[daraymond]

They were even good copy out here in Iowa 50 minutes before SS.

73. . .Dave, W0FLS

-Original Message- 
From: K1FZ-Bruce 
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 10:13 AM 
To: tsho...@gmail.com ; Topband 
Subject: Topband: 3C0L 


Tim,

They were good copy here also one hour before sunset !
I am close to salt water, an inlet just down  the hill to the south.

One hour early is great propagation though.

73
Bruce-k1fz

On Tue, 17 Oct 2017 09:48:01 -0400, Tim Shoppa  wrote:

3C0L had superb signals on 160M last night and a ginormous pileup.

Their signal started out an hour before my sundown, on my NE-facing K9AY
loop, but began showing QSB there an hour after my sundown. I then checked
and was surprised their signal was so much better on my transmit antenna.
This is something I've noticed several times on African DXpeditions.

I wonder if "Looking to the NE" makes sense before sundown because this my
shortest path to the most darkness, but the further after sundown a more
direct E or even southerly path makes more sense.

Tim N3QE
_
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This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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Topband: 3C0L

[K1FZ-Bruce]

Tim,

They were good copy here also one hour before sunset !
I am close to salt water, an inlet just down  the hill to the south.

One hour early is great propagation though.

73
Bruce-k1fz

On Tue, 17 Oct 2017 09:48:01 -0400, Tim Shoppa  wrote:

3C0L had superb signals on 160M last night and a ginormous pileup.

Their signal started out an hour before my sundown, on my NE-facing K9AY
loop, but began showing QSB there an hour after my sundown. I then checked
and was surprised their signal was so much better on my transmit antenna.
This is something I've noticed several times on African DXpeditions.

I wonder if "Looking to the NE" makes sense before sundown because this my
shortest path to the most darkness, but the further after sundown a more
direct E or even southerly path makes more sense.

Tim N3QE
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: 3C0L

[Dave Chasey]

I got them on 160 last night as well.   They were loud but I was fighting 
significant QSB going between loud/solid copy and no copy at all within 
minutes.   He may have come back to me once or twice but I wasn't sure due to a 
QSB fade, then another time someone tuned on top of him but it would have been 
ESP if it was.After about 45 minutes or so I gave up for a bit.   Went 
upstairs and did a few things and came back down 30 minutes or so later and got 
them solid within the next dozen or so calls. 

73,
Dave - N9FN

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of W0MU Mike 
Fatchett
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 10:04 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 3C0L

I would agree on the huge pileup and very very poorly behaved.  I guess people 
still can't copy their own calls.

He was decent copy and then would dive into the noise and come back.  I just 
got my 8 element circle back up but I am not sure it is operating right as 
sometime they were stronger on the Inverted L.

K0EU got them and maybe AA0RS but I didn't hear many others in the area get 
him.  I never did.

W0MU


On 10/17/2017 7:48 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote:
> 3C0L had superb signals on 160M last night and a ginormous pileup.
>
> Their signal started out an hour before my sundown, on my NE-facing 
> K9AY loop, but began showing QSB there an hour after my sundown. I 
> then checked and was surprised their signal was so much better on my transmit 
> antenna.
> This is something I've noticed several times on African DXpeditions.
>
> I wonder if "Looking to the NE" makes sense before sundown because 
> this my shortest path to the most darkness, but the further after 
> sundown a more direct E or even southerly path makes more sense.
>
> Tim N3QE
>
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 3:45 AM, Victor Goncharsky via Topband < 
> topband@contesting.com> wrote:
>
>> Sorry fat fingers, 3C0L, of course... great operation by two men crew 
>> with one dead K3!
>>
>>
>>> Вторник, 17 октября 2017, 7:41 UTC от Victor Goncharsky via Topband 
>>> <
>> topband@contesting.com>:
>>> Last night 3C0R have shown once again (remeber EP2A and S21ZED-E) 
>>> how 160
>> meter DX operation, this time from Africa, has to look like. Respect 
>> to Juris and Kaspars!
>>>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
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Re: Topband: 3C0L

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

I would agree on the huge pileup and very very poorly behaved.  I guess 
people still can't copy their own calls.


He was decent copy and then would dive into the noise and come back.  I 
just got my 8 element circle back up but I am not sure it is operating 
right as sometime they were stronger on the Inverted L.


K0EU got them and maybe AA0RS but I didn't hear many others in the area 
get him.  I never did.


W0MU


On 10/17/2017 7:48 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote:

3C0L had superb signals on 160M last night and a ginormous pileup.

Their signal started out an hour before my sundown, on my NE-facing K9AY
loop, but began showing QSB there an hour after my sundown. I then checked
and was surprised their signal was so much better on my transmit antenna.
This is something I've noticed several times on African DXpeditions.

I wonder if "Looking to the NE" makes sense before sundown because this my
shortest path to the most darkness, but the further after sundown a more
direct E or even southerly path makes more sense.

Tim N3QE

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 3:45 AM, Victor Goncharsky via Topband <
topband@contesting.com> wrote:


Sorry fat fingers, 3C0L, of course... great operation by two men crew with
one dead K3!



Вторник, 17 октября 2017, 7:41 UTC от Victor Goncharsky via Topband <

topband@contesting.com>:

Last night 3C0R have shown once again (remeber EP2A and S21ZED-E) how 160

meter DX operation, this time from Africa, has to look like. Respect to
Juris and Kaspars!



_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: 3C0L

[Tim Shoppa]

3C0L had superb signals on 160M last night and a ginormous pileup.

Their signal started out an hour before my sundown, on my NE-facing K9AY
loop, but began showing QSB there an hour after my sundown. I then checked
and was surprised their signal was so much better on my transmit antenna.
This is something I've noticed several times on African DXpeditions.

I wonder if "Looking to the NE" makes sense before sundown because this my
shortest path to the most darkness, but the further after sundown a more
direct E or even southerly path makes more sense.

Tim N3QE

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 3:45 AM, Victor Goncharsky via Topband <
topband@contesting.com> wrote:

> Sorry fat fingers, 3C0L, of course... great operation by two men crew with
> one dead K3!
>
>
> >Вторник, 17 октября 2017, 7:41 UTC от Victor Goncharsky via Topband <
> topband@contesting.com>:
> >
> >Last night 3C0R have shown once again (remeber EP2A and S21ZED-E) how 160
> meter DX operation, this time from Africa, has to look like. Respect to
> Juris and Kaspars!
> >
> >
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: H40GC

[Wes Stewart]

Congrats Gary!

I've worked H40GC twice now and he's good copy this morning an hour before local 
SR. The antenna is a still-in-work inverted-L with a too sparse radial field and 
no separate RX antenna.  Look at https://www.qrz.com/db/N7WS to see what I'm up 
against re: radials.


Since early August I've been plagued with power line noise. The coop's sleuth 
found the pole a month ago but getting a crew to come out while he was there was 
difficult.  I was on the phone with him yesterday when they deengerized the line 
to the water coop's booster pump and it went quiet!  They reworked everything on 
the pole (three phase xfmrs) and turned it back on, again while I was on the 
phone.  I can hear again.


Yesterday before my local SS I could copy 3C0L and heard him almost continually 
until what must have been his SR.  The panadapter display looked like a 20-meter 
contest.  But there are too many EUs and the whole USA between he and I, so no 
joy.  On an empty band I could have worked him.


I heard they have a broken K3.   I just got my factory-built K3S back from 
Elecraft for the fourth time and I fixed it once in between, so I know the drill.


Wes N7WS


 On 10/17/2017 4:56 AM, Gary Smith wrote:

I've been getting up to try for them but
they've been showing up later than I
expected, after sunrise and as things
worked out, I kept missing them.

Heard them this morning and clearly, but
they sounded like they went to KA1O & I'm
KA1J. So I called again and QSB, couldn't
hear a thing. Some helpful guy sent J
which I think was a help to me but I can't
log it unless I'm 100% sure I hear my call
confirmed, so pass. I tried a few minutes
later & I believe they came back again but
AMTRAK nailed me with a passing High speed
train right exactly as they came back,
nothing to hear but arcing in the receiver
for another 30 seconds, then less than a
minute later another train went by and
arcing again.

I hate to keep calling and have them think
I'm not capable of hearing them but one
more try and this time no QSB & no AMTRAK
& I made it. 3C0L last night and H40GC
this morning, two ATNO on Top Band.

I hate to go through the hassle of moving
and I'm in a beautiful place, right on the
ocean, but each Gray line comes right at
the commuter rush hour and trains pass by
every 5 minutes or so. Kills me with DX
and costs me points in every contest with
160 & 80 in it. Connecticut's too
expensive to live in anyway, especially
right here in a Tourist Trap location, so
I need to better my QTH...

But for the moment, two new ones on TB in
the log. :)

73,

Gary
KA1J



_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: H40GC

[Gary Smith]

I've been getting up to try for them but 
they've been showing up later than I 
expected, after sunrise and as things 
worked out, I kept missing them. 

Heard them this morning and clearly, but 
they sounded like they went to KA1O & I'm 
KA1J. So I called again and QSB, couldn't 
hear a thing. Some helpful guy sent J 
which I think was a help to me but I can't 
log it unless I'm 100% sure I hear my call 
confirmed, so pass. I tried a few minutes 
later & I believe they came back again but 
AMTRAK nailed me with a passing High speed 
train right exactly as they came back, 
nothing to hear but arcing in the receiver 
for another 30 seconds, then less than a 
minute later another train went by and 
arcing again.

I hate to keep calling and have them think 
I'm not capable of hearing them but one 
more try and this time no QSB & no AMTRAK 
& I made it. 3C0L last night and H40GC 
this morning, two ATNO on Top Band.

I hate to go through the hassle of moving 
and I'm in a beautiful place, right on the 
ocean, but each Gray line comes right at 
the commuter rush hour and trains pass by 
every 5 minutes or so. Kills me with DX 
and costs me points in every contest with 
160 & 80 in it. Connecticut's too 
expensive to live in anyway, especially 
right here in a Tourist Trap location, so 
I need to better my QTH...

But for the moment, two new ones on TB in 
the log. :)

73,

Gary
KA1J

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: TZ4AM

[Victor Goncharsky via Topband]

Sorry fat fingers, 3C0L, of course... great operation by two men crew with one 
dead K3!


>Вторник, 17 октября 2017, 7:41 UTC от Victor Goncharsky via Topband 
>:
>
>Last night 3C0R have shown once again (remeber EP2A and S21ZED-E) how 160 
>meter DX operation, this time from Africa, has to look like. Respect to Juris 
>and Kaspars!
>
>
>>Понедельник, 16 октября 2017, 17:06 UTC от luc kerkhofs via Topband < 
>>topband@contesting.com >:
>>
>>and don t forget it is also very frustrating for Jeff  to know that there are 
>>many calling that you do not hear .
>>which reminds me when we were operating from EP6T surrounded by 150 battery 
>>chargers and 500 chinese Led
>>lifghts
>>keep up the good work Jeff
>>LucON4IA 
>>
>>On Monday, October 16, 2017 6:42 PM, Ham Hicks <  ham...@bellsouth.net > 
>>wrote:
>> 
>>
>> Yes, I agree. It's supposed to be fun. Let the broadcasters be the ones to
>>get upset about reception and propagation.
>>73s
>>Ham  KB4BR
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ken
>>Claerbout
>>Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 12:11 PM
>>To:  Topband@contesting.com
>>Subject: Topband: TZ4AM
>>
>>I thought 160 Meters was the Gentleman's band?  Some of you need to take a
>>deep breath and relax.  Surely you have more important things in your lives?
>>
>>Jeff knows he has an RX problem and he's working on it.  What more can he
>>do?  Topband is difficult and frustrating from many locations.  A little
>>understanding and encouragement goes a long way.      
>>
>>73
>>Ken K4ZW
>>_
>>Topband Reflector Archives -  http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>_
>>Topband Reflector Archives -  http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
>>   
>>_
>>Topband Reflector Archives -  http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
>-- 
>73, Victor Goncharsky US5WE/K1WE (UW5W in VHF contests, ex UB5WE), P.E.
>UARL Technical and VHF Committies
>DXCC Honor Roll #1 (Mixed, Phone), 9BDXCC, 8BWAS
>DXCC card checker (160 meters).
>_
>Topband Reflector Archives -  http://www.contesting.com/_topband


-- 
73, Victor Goncharsky US5WE/K1WE (UW5W in VHF contests, ex UB5WE), P.E.
UARL Technical and VHF Committies
DXCC Honor Roll #1 (Mixed, Phone), 9BDXCC, 8BWAS
DXCC card checker (160 meters).
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: TZ4AM

[Victor Goncharsky via Topband]

Last night 3C0R have shown once again (remeber EP2A and S21ZED-E) how 160 meter 
DX operation, this time from Africa, has to look like. Respect to Juris and 
Kaspars!


>Понедельник, 16 октября 2017, 17:06 UTC от luc kerkhofs via Topband 
>:
>
>and don t forget it is also very frustrating for Jeff  to know that there are 
>many calling that you do not hear .
>which reminds me when we were operating from EP6T surrounded by 150 battery 
>chargers and 500 chinese Led
>lifghts
>keep up the good work Jeff
>LucON4IA 
>
>On Monday, October 16, 2017 6:42 PM, Ham Hicks < ham...@bellsouth.net > 
>wrote:
> 
>
> Yes, I agree. It's supposed to be fun. Let the broadcasters be the ones to
>get upset about reception and propagation.
>73s
>Ham  KB4BR
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ken
>Claerbout
>Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 12:11 PM
>To:  Topband@contesting.com
>Subject: Topband: TZ4AM
>
>I thought 160 Meters was the Gentleman's band?  Some of you need to take a
>deep breath and relax.  Surely you have more important things in your lives?
>
>Jeff knows he has an RX problem and he's working on it.  What more can he
>do?  Topband is difficult and frustrating from many locations.  A little
>understanding and encouragement goes a long way.      
>
>73
>Ken K4ZW
>_
>Topband Reflector Archives -  http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>_
>Topband Reflector Archives -  http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
>   
>_
>Topband Reflector Archives -  http://www.contesting.com/_topband


-- 
73, Victor Goncharsky US5WE/K1WE (UW5W in VHF contests, ex UB5WE), P.E.
UARL Technical and VHF Committies
DXCC Honor Roll #1 (Mixed, Phone), 9BDXCC, 8BWAS
DXCC card checker (160 meters).
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband