Re: Topband: Radial plate

[Mike Furrey]

A system I used that worked very well was four 81' elevated (up 20') radials 
after a single coil. The antenna was a tree supported inverted L. This is 
straight from the ON4UN handbook. Another ham neighbor used four 67' elevated 
radials after a single coil, also from the same section in the ON4UN hand book 
... 4th Edition page 9-25 ...  It was very easy resonating the system with that 
single coil but the best SWR was about 2.5. That problem was solved with a 
hairpin match. At the time I was living near Sewanee, TN on a sandstone plateau 
with the worst possible ground conductivity, about a "2" according to the map.

I don't think I can attach a photo of the feed point and send it to the group 
but can sure send to anyone interested in seeing what it looks like. 

73, Mike WA5POK


On Monday, July 2, 2018 12:05 PM, Grant Saviers  wrote:
 

 I agree that resonating 8 elevated radials would be a aggravating task.  
I have 8  10' elevated 125' +/- radials for my T loaded vertical.  I 
made no effort to resonate them.  OTOH, for one or two radials, 
resonating them is important.  N6LF covered this in his papers on 
elevated radials.  antennasbyn6lf.com also a two part series in QEX 2012

My installation has significant imbalance in radial currents, as much as 
3.4:1 highest to lowest as measured with an MFJ854 RF current meter that 
I calibrated.  The causes are proximity to a steel building and a tower 
for two of them.  The others are intermittently in forest and over grass.

With the 13ga aluminum wire I use for elevated radials the excess RF 
power loss from unbalance is less than 1% I^2*R using skin depth 
resistances.  I modeled (EZNEC Pro4) the antenna with 8 current sources 
of the actual values in each radial.  The azimuth pattern distortion is 
1db.  The gain is 0.05db lower .  The two highest current radials are 
adjacent.

This leads me to believe that for 8 or more elevated radials there is 
small benefit to pattern uniformity or efficiency with resonated radials 
or for finding some no loss means to equalize the radial currents.  N6LF 
concludes that for his recommended 10 elevated radials, efficiency and 
pattern sensitivity to length and current asymmetry is low.

I've had good results mechanically with 13ga aluminum electric fence 
wire.  There is no skin depth problem on 160m which may happen with 
cheap copperweld steel.  Aluminum is also available 9ga which is tough 
stuff.  As noted the very little stretch doesn't matter.

Grant KZ1W


On 7/1/2018 16:14 PM, Charles Moizeau wrote:
> With in-ground, which optimally should be be so shallow as to be on-ground, 
> radials there's no thought or effort needed to think about them as being 
> anything close to the intended radiation frequency.
>
>
> But with elevated radials my understanding, and it is more nonexistent than 
> limited because I've never tried them, is that all have to be physically 
> matched to one another yet tuned to the radiation frequency, and this 
> requirement is an extremely fiddly undertaking because there will be nearby 
> objects, e.g., trees, varying ground slopes, etc. that will differently 
> affect radials of identical physical length.
>
>
> Charles, W2SH
>
> 
> From: Topband  on behalf of N2TK, Tony 
> 
> Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2018 5:01 PM
> To: 'Carl'; topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate
>
> Hi Carl,
> One advantages of going underground. No more wires hanging up in the air. It
> will look cleaner. But I do not have any idea if my signal will degrade
> going with buried radials over the 5 elevated radials at each feedpoint. The
> ice was brutal this past winter.
> Why do you say there will be a large signal loss going from elevated to
> ground radials? You got my attentions with that statement.
> N2TK, Tony
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Carl [mailto:k...@jeremy.qozzy.com]
> Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 3:51 PM
> To: N2TK, Tony ; topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate
>
> Since the change to on ground radials can result in a large loss of signal
> in some areas why not just invest in stronger elevated radials?
>
> I use scrapped deep well wire from well shops which is available in #12 to 6
> in this area in 2 and 3 wire insulated styles and is often free. . For the
> 16 160M radials up 12-15' they run over tree branches and also over fairly
> open areas.
>
> Since I live on top of  the tallest hill in the area of Southern NH  Im
> exposed to everything Mother Nature can throw at me from all
> directions.ice included. Back when I used #18 & 16 it was regularly
> needing repair, amd now nothing in about 12 years. It acts/handles like a
> cross between soft drawn house wire and hard drawn.
>
> #16 to12 copper clad steel is available also with and without a strong
> jacket and stranded or solid..
>
> Carl
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "N2TK, Tony" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:08 AM
> Subject: 

Re: Topband: Radial plate

[Grant Saviers]

I agree that resonating 8 elevated radials would be a aggravating task.  
I have 8  10' elevated 125' +/- radials for my T loaded vertical.  I 
made no effort to resonate them.  OTOH, for one or two radials, 
resonating them is important.  N6LF covered this in his papers on 
elevated radials.  antennasbyn6lf.com also a two part series in QEX 2012


My installation has significant imbalance in radial currents, as much as 
3.4:1 highest to lowest as measured with an MFJ854 RF current meter that 
I calibrated.  The causes are proximity to a steel building and a tower 
for two of them.  The others are intermittently in forest and over grass.


With the 13ga aluminum wire I use for elevated radials the excess RF 
power loss from unbalance is less than 1% I^2*R using skin depth 
resistances.  I modeled (EZNEC Pro4) the antenna with 8 current sources 
of the actual values in each radial.  The azimuth pattern distortion is 
1db.  The gain is 0.05db lower .  The two highest current radials are 
adjacent.


This leads me to believe that for 8 or more elevated radials there is 
small benefit to pattern uniformity or efficiency with resonated radials 
or for finding some no loss means to equalize the radial currents.  N6LF 
concludes that for his recommended 10 elevated radials, efficiency and 
pattern sensitivity to length and current asymmetry is low.


I've had good results mechanically with 13ga aluminum electric fence 
wire.  There is no skin depth problem on 160m which may happen with 
cheap copperweld steel.  Aluminum is also available 9ga which is tough 
stuff.  As noted the very little stretch doesn't matter.


Grant KZ1W


On 7/1/2018 16:14 PM, Charles Moizeau wrote:

With in-ground, which optimally should be be so shallow as to be on-ground, 
radials there's no thought or effort needed to think about them as being 
anything close to the intended radiation frequency.


But with elevated radials my understanding, and it is more nonexistent than 
limited because I've never tried them, is that all have to be physically 
matched to one another yet tuned to the radiation frequency, and this 
requirement is an extremely fiddly undertaking because there will be nearby 
objects, e.g., trees, varying ground slopes, etc. that will differently affect 
radials of identical physical length.


Charles, W2SH


From: Topband  on behalf of N2TK, Tony 

Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2018 5:01 PM
To: 'Carl'; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate

Hi Carl,
One advantages of going underground. No more wires hanging up in the air. It
will look cleaner. But I do not have any idea if my signal will degrade
going with buried radials over the 5 elevated radials at each feedpoint. The
ice was brutal this past winter.
Why do you say there will be a large signal loss going from elevated to
ground radials? You got my attentions with that statement.
N2TK, Tony

-Original Message-
From: Carl [mailto:k...@jeremy.qozzy.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 3:51 PM
To: N2TK, Tony ; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate

Since the change to on ground radials can result in a large loss of signal
in some areas why not just invest in stronger elevated radials?

I use scrapped deep well wire from well shops which is available in #12 to 6
in this area in 2 and 3 wire insulated styles and is often free. . For the
16 160M radials up 12-15' they run over tree branches and also over fairly
open areas.

Since I live on top of  the tallest hill in the area of Southern NH  Im
exposed to everything Mother Nature can throw at me from all
directions.ice included. Back when I used #18 & 16 it was regularly
needing repair, amd now nothing in about 12 years. It acts/handles like a
cross between soft drawn house wire and hard drawn.

#16 to12 copper clad steel is available also with and without a strong
jacket and stranded or solid..

Carl


- Original Message -
From: "N2TK, Tony" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:08 AM
Subject: Topband: Radial plate


Planning on changing from elevated radials to ground mounted radials for my
80 M 4-sq. After twice having to rebuild the elevated radials this past
winter from the snow/ice storms it is time to go to the ground. I plan on
having the feedpoints on 4x4 posts with the feedpoints 3' up from the ground
so they don't get snow covered often.

Looking at the DXEngineering Radial plates. It looks like an easy way to tie
the radials together on the ground then run a ground wire up to a box at the
feedpoint. Any comments or issues with using these radial plates?



Also going to use buried feedlines - RG6, � wave with 8 turns through #31
big clamp-on core at the feedpoint.

73,

N2TK, Tony

_
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Topband: Baker Isl News

[wb6rse1]

The KH1 crew will start teardown earlier than planned. FT8 operation on Top 
Band is planned. EC USA and Eastern EU take note. Details below.

Good luck. - Steve WB6RSE


Per N1DG:   http://www.kh7z.net/ 

2 July Update – 1400z Update 


"Things are humming on Baker Island.  After storms, SAT phone failures, extreme 
heat and a storm that damaged both our low band antennas everything is fixed 
and we have over 40,000 QSOS in the log.
We are all happily working radio shifts handing out ATNOs and making memories 
that will remain with us forever.
Our pilots have requested we shift our 30 mtr frequency to down 1 to 10.107 to 
avoid EU QRM.  We also will try FT8 normal mode on 1.840 at 09:00 UTC 3 July 
for East Coast USA who have been hard to work. If successful we will stay on 
160 through the night giving Eastern EU a shot.
We are still getting lots of FT8 callers using the wrong software.
Also we hope to activate 60 mtrs (FT8) on 4 July.
Lastly because of the tides and heat we start tearing down late on the 4th and 
leave Baker on the 6th.
Don"
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Any experience with 2N3553?

[N2TK, Tony]

Hi Lee,
Gee, you think they are using the same 16 x 20 mil die for both parts? :-)
Both parts will be around for a very long time. They just might be expensive. 
The space folks like them because you can get radiation hardened parts. And 
following MIL-PRF-19500 specs parts are very close in performance from lot to 
lot. You can get them in TO-39 cans rated at 1W or UB surface mount packages 
rated at .5W. Or you can get die and enjoy mounting them. There is no plastic 
encapsulated transistors for mil and space transistors.

By the way in regards to JFETS it depends on which wafer fab they are made in 
regards to quality and performance from part to part. One company on the west 
coast that shut down several years ago had two wafer fabs - one in CA and one 
in AS.  The CA fab made the mil wafers and the one in AS made the commercial 
wafers.  The mil wafers were fairly consistent in performance  from wafer to 
wafer. Not so for the commercial wafers. There still is significant stock of 
wafers after all of these years to build "new" JFETS, both commercial and mil.

The switch from TO-cans to surface mount continues to grow. For one, the price 
of the TO-headers is going up at a fast rate. Some packages are no longer 
available such as the TO-59. And pick and place is easier with the surface 
mount components.

Oh, and all of these real cheap Fairchild wafers are just about all gone. Folks 
are scrambling for replacement of the 10 -30 cent die.

73,
N2TK, Tony


-Original Message-
From: Lee STRAHAN [mailto:k7...@msn.com] 
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 8:40 PM
To: N2TK, Tony ; mar...@ok1rr.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: RE: Topband: Any experience with 2N3553?

Thanks Tony,
   Agreed the 2N5109 will be around for a long time however as you point out 
they are or will be very expensive. At present I use 100's of 2N3866 
transistors which are very close to the same die if not selected from the 
2N5109 process. My cost in 100 quantity has gone from about $1.60 each to 
currently $4.00 each in about 2 years' time for 2N3866's. The 5109 is currently 
priced less at $2.22  where the 3866 used to be less. From all this I conclude 
that the 2N5109 will follow the huge price increases. I could be wrong but I 
will not plan on using the 5109 especially where most things are going to 
surface mount also. Even J-310 FETs have gone from <$.20 to $2.41 at 100 level. 
Worst thing is 20% of the off brand j-310s don’t meet spec. The only way to 
solve this is to go to surface mount where you can still get the good J-310 and 
other great devices. One can often use more than one SMD device in an amplifier 
having it cost less than one expensive leaded  device. For the hams building a 
single amplifier the 5109 makes a lot of sense right now. Semiconductor times 
are changing rapidly. I make lots of top-band antenna systems using lots of 
already expensive electronics. For this reason I have to do as well as I can to 
predict the future for my products. My observation is that leaded parts are 
disappearing rapidly and this will continue.

LeeK7TJR
Hi-Z Antennas

-Original Message-
From: N2TK, Tony  
Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2018 2:03 PM

To: 'Lee STRAHAN' ; mar...@ok1rr.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: RE: Topband: Any experience with 2N3553?

The 2N5109 will be around for many years. It is widely used in the military and 
space community.  It is listed as a JAN part. But it ain't cheap.
73,
N2TK, Tony

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Lee STRAHAN
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 2:15 PM
To: mar...@ok1rr.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Any experience with 2N3553?

Hello Martin and all,
The 2N3553 device was plagued with a low Ft (high at its introduction)  
making it mostly a low frequency device with questionable high gain high 
frequency use in typical ham preamps. It is no longer available through the 
original manufacturers. Also perhaps you are thinking of the BFQ18A and not the 
BFQ19A device. The BFQ19 is at end of its life cycle and in addition the 18A is 
widely used now in the MATV industry for wideband amplifiers. I have some 
experience with the 18A using it in a wideband Norton style amplifier where it 
is providing 10+dB of gain with a measured noise figure of 2 dB on 160 meters. 
Its typical IMD is at least listed at UHF on the data sheet. My IMD testing 
setup is not adequate to test the range of this device but I can say that it 
exceeds any other amplifiers I have built to date. I typically use the 2N3866 
which unfortunately is pricing itself out of the market now. I suspect the 
2N5109 will follow as inventories shrink.. A pair of the 18A devices at ~$1.00 
USD each single price in a push pull Norton configuration would in my opinion 
make it worth trying as a killer wideband amp. 
Just my $.02 USD.
Lee   K7TJR  OR

-Original Message-
From: Topband  On Behalf Of Martin Kratoska
Sent: Sunday, July 

Re: Topband: Radial plate

[N2TK, Tony]

Hi Carl,
I am in upstate NY. We have decent soil but several feet down we are on
solid rock.

I'm envious of your receive antennas. I miss the 625' beverages I had in
Joisey. Only can fit in around 300' beverages here. That is why I switched
to Pennants, Flags and now have one W1FV 3-el array set up. So, definitely a
compromise here. 
Only 285 countries and 35 zones on 160M. I shunt feed the tower on 160M. If
I can hear them I can work them, usually.
73,
N2TK, Tony 

-Original Message-
From: Carl [mailto:k...@jeremy.qozzy.com] 
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 9:21 PM
To: N2TK, Tony ; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate

The loss all depends upon your actual RF ground resistance. which ranges
from a near perfect salt water marsh to granite, deep glacial sand, and
rocky soils being among the worst. Loss of 2-3 dB is common at the LOWEST
angles wheras others keep quoting the lobe peak which doesnt change that
much.

Good BCB antennas have great groundwave BUT at night they can be heard half
the world away thanks to those real low and efficient angles which become
skywaves. Available ham software doenst work very well down there.
.
I consider 1 dB loss to be the threshold between a QSO or not, some consider
it less than that and Im strictly a CW DXer on 160 and realize that a high
percentage of the DX is at a serious disadvantage noise wise.

For RX I use 5 2 wire Beverages for 10 directions in the 500-750' range so
Im not particularly hearing limited because of my Southern NH granite
hilltop.

Just my opinion Tony after over 300 countries and 39 zones over several
decades.

Carl



- Original Message -
From: "N2TK, Tony" 
To: "'Carl'" ; 
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 5:01 PM
Subject: RE: Topband: Radial plate


Hi Carl,
One advantages of going underground. No more wires hanging up in the air. It
will look cleaner. But I do not have any idea if my signal will degrade
going with buried radials over the 5 elevated radials at each feedpoint. The
ice was brutal this past winter.
Why do you say there will be a large signal loss going from elevated to
ground radials? You got my attentions with that statement.
N2TK, Tony

-Original Message-
From: Carl [mailto:k...@jeremy.qozzy.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 3:51 PM
To: N2TK, Tony ; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate

Since the change to on ground radials can result in a large loss of signal
in some areas why not just invest in stronger elevated radials?

I use scrapped deep well wire from well shops which is available in #12 to 6
in this area in 2 and 3 wire insulated styles and is often free. . For the
16 160M radials up 12-15' they run over tree branches and also over fairly
open areas.

Since I live on top of  the tallest hill in the area of Southern NH  Im
exposed to everything Mother Nature can throw at me from all
directions.ice included. Back when I used #18 & 16 it was regularly
needing repair, amd now nothing in about 12 years. It acts/handles like a
cross between soft drawn house wire and hard drawn.

#16 to12 copper clad steel is available also with and without a strong
jacket and stranded or solid..

Carl


- Original Message -
From: "N2TK, Tony" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:08 AM
Subject: Topband: Radial plate


Planning on changing from elevated radials to ground mounted radials for my
80 M 4-sq. After twice having to rebuild the elevated radials this past
winter from the snow/ice storms it is time to go to the ground. I plan on
having the feedpoints on 4x4 posts with the feedpoints 3' up from the ground
so they don't get snow covered often.

Looking at the DXEngineering Radial plates. It looks like an easy way to tie
the radials together on the ground then run a ground wire up to a box at the
feedpoint. Any comments or issues with using these radial plates?



Also going to use buried feedlines - RG6, ¾ wave with 8 turns through #31
big clamp-on core at the feedpoint.

73,

N2TK, Tony

_
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Re: Topband: Radial plate

[N2TK, Tony]

Charles,
Originally I had four 1/4 wave radials at each feedpoint. The pattern was
terrible. I shortened them to 52' and put up five elevated radials at each
feedpoint. I tied the five radials together at each feedpoint and added a
coil to have minimum dumped power at 3775 KHZ. I used a current probe at the
coil of each radial. The current was now pretty much identical. The pattern
with the Comtek box improved dramatically. The system seems to work okay. 
The reasons why I want to put the radials on the ground is to make the back
yard look a little cleaner and less chance for storm damage such as when a
few branches come down from ice. 
But what I don't know is if I am giving up measureable performance going to
ground mounted radials over elevated radials.

73,
N2TK, Tony 

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Moizeau
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 7:15 PM
To: N2TK, Tony ; Topband 
Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate

With in-ground, which optimally should be be so shallow as to be on-ground,
radials there's no thought or effort needed to think about them as being
anything close to the intended radiation frequency.


But with elevated radials my understanding, and it is more nonexistent than
limited because I've never tried them, is that all have to be physically
matched to one another yet tuned to the radiation frequency, and this
requirement is an extremely fiddly undertaking because there will be nearby
objects, e.g., trees, varying ground slopes, etc. that will differently
affect radials of identical physical length.


Charles, W2SH


From: Topband  on behalf of N2TK, Tony

Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2018 5:01 PM
To: 'Carl'; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate

Hi Carl,
One advantages of going underground. No more wires hanging up in the air. It
will look cleaner. But I do not have any idea if my signal will degrade
going with buried radials over the 5 elevated radials at each feedpoint. The
ice was brutal this past winter.
Why do you say there will be a large signal loss going from elevated to
ground radials? You got my attentions with that statement.
N2TK, Tony

-Original Message-
From: Carl [mailto:k...@jeremy.qozzy.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 3:51 PM
To: N2TK, Tony ; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate

Since the change to on ground radials can result in a large loss of signal
in some areas why not just invest in stronger elevated radials?

I use scrapped deep well wire from well shops which is available in #12 to 6
in this area in 2 and 3 wire insulated styles and is often free. . For the
16 160M radials up 12-15' they run over tree branches and also over fairly
open areas.

Since I live on top of  the tallest hill in the area of Southern NH  Im
exposed to everything Mother Nature can throw at me from all
directions.ice included. Back when I used #18 & 16 it was regularly
needing repair, amd now nothing in about 12 years. It acts/handles like a
cross between soft drawn house wire and hard drawn.

#16 to12 copper clad steel is available also with and without a strong
jacket and stranded or solid..

Carl


- Original Message -
From: "N2TK, Tony" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:08 AM
Subject: Topband: Radial plate


Planning on changing from elevated radials to ground mounted radials for my
80 M 4-sq. After twice having to rebuild the elevated radials this past
winter from the snow/ice storms it is time to go to the ground. I plan on
having the feedpoints on 4x4 posts with the feedpoints 3' up from the ground
so they don't get snow covered often.

Looking at the DXEngineering Radial plates. It looks like an easy way to tie
the radials together on the ground then run a ground wire up to a box at the
feedpoint. Any comments or issues with using these radial plates?



Also going to use buried feedlines - RG6, ¾ wave with 8 turns through #31
big clamp-on core at the feedpoint.

73,

N2TK, Tony

_
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Re: Topband: Any experience with 2N3553?

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

On 7/2/2018 3:17 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote:

I believe the old Clifton Labs pages had some nice info on JFET parameters.
Can't get to anymore?

W7ZOI has a nice page on measuring IDSS which I recall to be the parameter
on the spec sheet most relevant: http://w7zoi.net/jfet101.pdf

Measuring IDSS only takes a 10V power supply and a milliameter, very easy.



It is not unusual for JFETs/MOSFETs to have a specified IDSS that covers
a range of 10:1.  Any experimenter should get proficient at measuring
IDSS and understanding how it matters to the application circuit.
Also, the IDSS of a particular batch might be in a much narrower range,
but the next batch is not guaranteed to repeat.

HP used a FET in one of their products where it was easy to calculate
that the circuit would not work over the full specified range of IDSS.
In spite of this, the product successfully shipped for a few years ...
until the latest batch of FETs didn't work, due to a change in IDSS.


Rick N6RK
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Any experience with 2N3553?

[Tim Shoppa]

I believe the old Clifton Labs pages had some nice info on JFET parameters.
Can't get to anymore?

W7ZOI has a nice page on measuring IDSS which I recall to be the parameter
on the spec sheet most relevant: http://w7zoi.net/jfet101.pdf

Measuring IDSS only takes a 10V power supply and a milliameter, very easy.

I bought a good stock of TO92 J310's before they were obsoleted. The SMD
parts are still super available and easy to attach flying leads to (usually
you'll tack the gate down to ground anyway leaving two flying leads.)

Tim N3QE



On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 3:25 AM, Martin Kratoska  wrote:

> Lee,
>
> very interesting. Many thanks for that valuable info! BTW is there any
> easy, cheap and quick method to test the J310, possibly without need of
> dedicated complex 'test jig'?
>
> 73,
> Martin, OK1RR
>
>
> Dne 2.7.2018 v 02:39 Lee STRAHAN napsal(a):
>
> Thanks Tony,
>> Agreed the 2N5109 will be around for a long time however as you point
>> out they are or will be very expensive. At present I use 100's of 2N3866
>> transistors which are very close to the same die if not selected from the
>> 2N5109 process. My cost in 100 quantity has gone from about $1.60 each to
>> currently $4.00 each in about 2 years' time for 2N3866's. The 5109 is
>> currently priced less at $2.22  where the 3866 used to be less. From all
>> this I conclude that the 2N5109 will follow the huge price increases. I
>> could be wrong but I will not plan on using the 5109 especially where most
>> things are going to surface mount also. Even J-310 FETs have gone from
>> <$.20 to $2.41 at 100 level. Worst thing is 20% of the off brand j-310s
>> don’t meet spec. The only way to solve this is to go to surface mount where
>> you can still get the good J-310 and other great devices. One can often use
>> more than one SMD device in an amplifier having it cost less than one
>> expensive leaded  device. For the hams building a single amplifier the 5109
>> makes a lot of sense right now. Semiconductor times are changing rapidly. I
>> make lots of top-band antenna systems using lots of already expensive
>> electronics. For this reason I have to do as well as I can to predict the
>> future for my products. My observation is that leaded parts are
>> disappearing rapidly and this will continue.
>>
>> LeeK7TJR
>> Hi-Z Antennas
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: N2TK, Tony 
>> Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2018 2:03 PM
>>
>> To: 'Lee STRAHAN' ; mar...@ok1rr.com;
>> topband@contesting.com
>> Subject: RE: Topband: Any experience with 2N3553?
>>
>> The 2N5109 will be around for many years. It is widely used in the
>> military and space community.  It is listed as a JAN part. But it ain't
>> cheap.
>> 73,
>> N2TK, Tony
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Lee
>> STRAHAN
>> Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 2:15 PM
>> To: mar...@ok1rr.com; topband@contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Any experience with 2N3553?
>>
>> Hello Martin and all,
>>  The 2N3553 device was plagued with a low Ft (high at its
>> introduction)  making it mostly a low frequency device with questionable
>> high gain high frequency use in typical ham preamps. It is no longer
>> available through the original manufacturers. Also perhaps you are thinking
>> of the BFQ18A and not the BFQ19A device. The BFQ19 is at end of its life
>> cycle and in addition the 18A is widely used now in the MATV industry for
>> wideband amplifiers. I have some experience with the 18A using it in a
>> wideband Norton style amplifier where it is providing 10+dB of gain with a
>> measured noise figure of 2 dB on 160 meters. Its typical IMD is at least
>> listed at UHF on the data sheet. My IMD testing setup is not adequate to
>> test the range of this device but I can say that it exceeds any other
>> amplifiers I have built to date. I typically use the 2N3866 which
>> unfortunately is pricing itself out of the market now. I suspect the 2N5109
>> will follow as inventories shrink.. A pair of the 18A devices at ~$1.00 USD
>> each single price in a push pull Norton configuration would in my opinion
>> make it worth trying as a killer wideband amp.
>> Just my $.02 USD.
>> Lee   K7TJR  OR
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Topband  On Behalf Of Martin
>> Kratoska
>> Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2018 9:51 AM
>> To: topband@contesting.com
>> Subject: Topband: Any experience with 2N3553?
>>
>> The 2N3553 is a brutal 7 watt device in a TO-39 metal package. Chris
>> Trask, N7ZMY mentioned some unparalleled IM characterics
>>
>> '... The BFQ19 (made by NXP née Philips) and the NE46134 (made by NEC)
>> are both highly popular within the CATV industry, and are virtually
>> identical in terms of linearity. They compare favorably to the 2N5109 in
>> terms of linearity, though they pale in camparison with the 2N3553 (as do
>> all the others)...'.
>>
>> See
>> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask/Bipolar%20Transist
>> or%20Evaluation.pdf
>>
>> 2N3553 is 

Re: Topband: Any experience with 2N3553?

[Martin Kratoska]

Lee,

very interesting. Many thanks for that valuable info! BTW is there any 
easy, cheap and quick method to test the J310, possibly without need of 
dedicated complex 'test jig'?


73,
Martin, OK1RR


Dne 2.7.2018 v 02:39 Lee STRAHAN napsal(a):

Thanks Tony,
Agreed the 2N5109 will be around for a long time however as you point out they 
are or will be very expensive. At present I use 100's of 2N3866 transistors which 
are very close to the same die if not selected from the 2N5109 process. My cost in 
100 quantity has gone from about $1.60 each to currently $4.00 each in about 2 
years' time for 2N3866's. The 5109 is currently priced less at $2.22  where the 
3866 used to be less. From all this I conclude that the 2N5109 will follow the 
huge price increases. I could be wrong but I will not plan on using the 5109 
especially where most things are going to surface mount also. Even J-310 FETs have 
gone from <$.20 to $2.41 at 100 level. Worst thing is 20% of the off brand 
j-310s don’t meet spec. The only way to solve this is to go to surface mount where 
you can still get the good J-310 and other great devices. One can often use more 
than one SMD device in an amplifier having it cost less than one expensive leaded  
device. For the hams building a single amplifier the 5109 makes a lot of sense 
right now. Semiconductor times are changing rapidly. I make lots of top-band 
antenna systems using lots of already expensive electronics. For this reason I 
have to do as well as I can to predict the future for my products. My observation 
is that leaded parts are disappearing rapidly and this will continue.

LeeK7TJR
Hi-Z Antennas

-Original Message-
From: N2TK, Tony 
Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2018 2:03 PM

To: 'Lee STRAHAN' ; mar...@ok1rr.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: RE: Topband: Any experience with 2N3553?

The 2N5109 will be around for many years. It is widely used in the military and 
space community.  It is listed as a JAN part. But it ain't cheap.
73,
N2TK, Tony

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Lee STRAHAN
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 2:15 PM
To: mar...@ok1rr.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Any experience with 2N3553?

Hello Martin and all,
 The 2N3553 device was plagued with a low Ft (high at its introduction)  
making it mostly a low frequency device with questionable high gain high 
frequency use in typical ham preamps. It is no longer available through the 
original manufacturers. Also perhaps you are thinking of the BFQ18A and not the 
BFQ19A device. The BFQ19 is at end of its life cycle and in addition the 18A is 
widely used now in the MATV industry for wideband amplifiers. I have some 
experience with the 18A using it in a wideband Norton style amplifier where it 
is providing 10+dB of gain with a measured noise figure of 2 dB on 160 meters. 
Its typical IMD is at least listed at UHF on the data sheet. My IMD testing 
setup is not adequate to test the range of this device but I can say that it 
exceeds any other amplifiers I have built to date. I typically use the 2N3866 
which unfortunately is pricing itself out of the market now. I suspect the 
2N5109 will follow as inventories shrink.. A pair of the 18A devices at ~$1.00 
USD each single price in a push pull Norton configuration would in my opinion 
make it worth trying as a killer wideband amp.
Just my $.02 USD.
Lee   K7TJR  OR

-Original Message-
From: Topband  On Behalf Of Martin Kratoska
Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2018 9:51 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: Any experience with 2N3553?

The 2N3553 is a brutal 7 watt device in a TO-39 metal package. Chris Trask, 
N7ZMY mentioned some unparalleled IM characterics

'... The BFQ19 (made by NXP née Philips) and the NE46134 (made by NEC) are both 
highly popular within the CATV industry, and are virtually identical in terms 
of linearity. They compare favorably to the 2N5109 in terms of linearity, 
though they pale in camparison with the 2N3553 (as do all the others)...'.

See
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask/Bipolar%20Transistor%20Evaluation.pdf

2N3553 is often mentioned in transmitting applications but I was unable to find 
some other details like IM, noise and gain characteristics in high DR preamps 
for receiving purposes. Any experience?

73,
Martin, OK1RR
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