Re: Topband: Remotes

[Hans Hjelmström]

Well,

Topband and 6 meters is killed by FT 8 anyway.

Hams seems not to carethere is not a single sound on qrg,BUT Hams seems to 
be happy to push a finger and let the computer make a so called qso for them.

Also the RIB business is as crazy. Having a station on a place,and operators 
all over 
the globe. Rather easy to handle a pile-up with a station in Pacific and 
sitting operating that in 
Finland.

No We all have to do it our own way and let the other do it their way,BUT dxcc 
is gone
for ever as an important award.

73 Hans SM6CVX


> 5 feb 2024 kl. 19:48 skrev David Olean :
> 
> Hi Steve,
> 
> The horse has left the barn.  I have lost a bit of enthusiasm ever since 
> Maine became a hotspot for 160M into Europe a number of years ago.  There are 
> so many "killer" remote stations in the state now. There is no way I can 
> really compete against it and it is very dis heartening to hear the W7s using 
> a Maine station and not signing as portable. I have heard all the same stuff 
> you were hearing this morning. There is really nothing you or I can do about 
> it.  Some follow the rules, and some will bend them severely.  As for radio 
> awards, W6PO commented years ago"It is just like collecting matchbook 
> covers". I set my own internal goals.
> 
> Dave K1WHS
> 
> On 2/5/2024 11:57 AM, Steve Harrison wrote:
>> This growing practice of hiring a remote in another call area far from
>> your own QTH, then working wild and exotic DX wile preventing deserving
>> locals operating from their home stations from working same DX, is
>> abominable and just plain unethical. I lost what respect I had for a
>> couple people I heard work 9M2AX this morning when I heard them do that.
>> I heard another guy do that last week that I've only just barely heard
>> on 160 in the past across the country; he was at least two hours beyond
>> his own sunrise, so obviously hiring a remote, probably that big one up
>> near Carson City, Nevada, same station these two guys this morning were
>> probably using. The week before last, there was another east coaster, at
>> least 2-1/2 hours past his sunrise, who did the same thing at, most
>> likely, the same station. I bet the owner of the station is advertising
>> it as "WORK 9M2AX on 160 from here!!! Only $XXX for a half hour!!".
>> 
>> I hope these guys are putting an asterisk on their 9M2 QSL cards to
>> indicate they didn't work Ross from home; but I won't hold my breath
>> that they do.
>> 
>> Steve, K0XP
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _
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Topband: Tomor Leste 4W8X

[Hans Hjelmström]

THANKS Dieter for being on top band CW. Top band is almost ( like 6 meters ) 
destroyed /killed by FT 8.

Real pleasure to listen to you and friends running CW, especially on top band. 
GREAT.
Understanding,,,how you dig out signals in qsb and qrn.And knowledge about 
conditions
to different areas.Thats Ham radio for ME.
’
Agree ,I have never and will never work FT 8,because I also love to do it 
myself.
BUT I accept ,of course, that others,enjoy the PC business.

I am sure.Before expedition ends, most Hams that like top band CW have worked 
you and the other expeditioners.   THANKS also for putting so much money in to 
help us.

Kind regards

Hans  SM6CVX
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Re: Topband: J28MD, conditions

[Hans Hjelmström]

THANKS Ed /N1UR for telling ,,,how it really is..

I have also given up ,more or less, on the situation.

6 meter is killed on CW/SSB.  ONLY TZ4AM and TT8SN together
with some few Europeans still stay trying to activate CW/SSB. 95% of all others 
use FT 8 ,and says its a Qso.   Not for me. Never mind if conditions allow 
regular CW/SSB connections or not.

I have not made a single Qso on 160/80  for a few years.YES I have given up.

I have ,however, started to call CQ on CW/SSB on 21,24 and 28 mc lately.
I make good OLD way QSO:s ,given report,name,qth, station info and even
WX. ITS real fun.  BUT also here VERY FEW active Hams .
In my opinion,thats the problem,lack of activity on CW/SSB.
ONLY during BIG contests ,there is very good activity on CW/SSB ,
BUT between these,very very few active. So this is the way the hobby we 
loved is going…SAD.

ARRL ,in my opinion, has really taken some strange decisions.

Take care and enjoy whats left of it.
Hans  SM6CVX
> 6 nov 2022 kl. 11:59 skrev  :
> 
> Those that think that the other end of their 160 or 80 FT8 QSO is a
> dedicated operator "working them" like the old days just using this new mode
> are seriously kidding themselves.  It is well known and not even hidden any
> more, that the "lesser rate" bands are a 2nd radio to the active operator
> who takes a minute every 10 - 20 minutes and clicks on all the calls being
> decoded and goes back to whatever other mode band he is actually operating
> on.  This routinely occurs and is now part of the strategy for DXpeditions.
> This is a big reason why there is almost no 160 or 6 CW coming out of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Is the 160 Q actually while the operator is sleeping.  Sure its possible.
> At a minimum it could be he clicked on all the decoded signals just before
> going to bed and the next 30 - 60 minutes on 160 were as he/she was
> sleeping.  That's if its attempting to be fully legit to the ARRL DX rules,
> which are simply their rules and no-one else.  
> 
> 
> 
> How pervasive is the "robot mode" while a 6 hour sleep break is taken.  Not
> sure.  But to say its not possible just because the out of the box FT8
> software doesn't allow it is the height of naivety.  Software is changed by
> the user all the time.  And macros are used routinely.  Its been proven
> already its very doable.  The only question is "how pervasive is it" and
> will the Dxpeditioners come clean if they are?
> 
> 
> 
> I used to love 160 and 80 DX chasing.  I have completely given up on it.
> Can't get excited about a DXpedition constantly and then be disappointed
> that it never shows up on 160 and 80CW - which I find to be about 75% of the
> time now on 80 and about 90% of the time on 160.  I don't do 6 but hear its
> virtually 100% there.
> 
> 
> 
> Ed  N1UR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
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Re: Topband: J28MD, conditions

[Hans Hjelmström]

Hi Bob

And I can tell youI feel samePLUS it has also destroyed the fun on
50 mc.   NO CW or SSB to be heard ( except TZ4AM and TT8SN  still on CW/SSB).
Both 5V7RU/ ty5RU and J28MD ONLY FT 8 unheard mode. NOT even
a try on CW,even that conditions are perfect.
This is VERY SAD and will impact of activity in future for many of us.

Take care and stay safe

Hans SM6CVX  / NO Ft 8 ever
> 5 nov 2022 kl. 19:39 skrev k...@kq2m.com:
> 
> 
> On Tuesday I heard but could not work VK6IR, but I did work VK6GX on Thursday 
> for my first zone 29 qso on 160 since VK6HD about 3 decades ago.
> My antenna is a modest 160 Inv L with elevated radials.  When the band has 
> very good cndx I can work almost anything that I can hear.  But on the 
> marginal days there is quite a bit of long-haul DX that eludes me.  ;-)  (I'm 
> still missing zones 22, 23, 24, 26, and 27)
> 
> What is maddening to me is that it used to be that FT4 / FT8 was used by some 
> DXpeditions AFTER they had already worked 160 CW.  Now, to my great 
> disappointment, more and more DXpeditions are routinely using FT4 and/or FT8 
> IN PLACE of 160 cw, even though they are perfectly capable of operating 160 
> CW. Sadly, this trend seems to be getting more and more pervasive.
> 
> Recently, 5V7RU has ONLY been on FT4 / FT8 on 80 and 160, with NO cw at all 
> on those bands.
> This follows the previous country they were in where they operated 80 cw but 
> no 160 cw.
> 
> J28MD has operated 160 cw very briefly and typically avoids it, instead 
> preferring FT8.
> 
> I get it  It is far easier to work stations on FT4 or FT8 than on cw.  
> And using those unattended modes allow qsos to be made
> while the Dxpedition operators sleep.  But that does not make me feel better 
> about it.
> 
> I am not interested in the digital modes, preferring the traditional modes of 
> CW and SSB.  I understand that others feel differently,
> which is fine.  But it bothers me that DXpeditions are now avoiding CW on 
> 80/160 because they just don't want to bother.
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, KQ2M
> 
> 
> 
> On 2022-11-05 12:45, Tom wrote:
>> On thursday night conditions here in w1 land were outstanding!   J28MD
>> (cw) and 5V7RU (ft8) got in the log and I heard HS0ZOY (ft8) at his SR
>> at -5 for about 5 minutes.  first HS I have ever heard.
>> hope i get a chance with T88.
>>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 12:00 PM, David Raymond  
>>> wrote:
>>> Greetings Topbanders. . .
>>> I've spent a considerable amount of time on watch this past week for J28MD 
>>> on Topband (CW).  While they've spent a fair amount of time on TB I haven't 
>>> yet had success yet in spite of my ongoing efforts.   I believe it was this 
>>> past Tuesday night when Joel, W5ZN, said they appeared briefly out of the 
>>> noise (about 10 minutes or so and did have success with his BSEF-8 and Hi-Z 
>>> 8 arrays in diversity)  then disappeared the rest of the evening. Wednesday 
>>> night's opening to NA was much longer starting on the East coast and slowly 
>>> sweeping westward with quite a few NA making it in the log (EC + 5's, 8's, 
>>> & 9s', VE).  Unfortunately the prop just never quite made it this far west. 
>>>  They barely peaked out of the noise here in Iowa Wednesday evening (NA 
>>> time) just enough to get me excited and dump my call a few times hoping for 
>>> even a marginal QSO. . . but no cigar.  It's a little frustrating to see 
>>> that they always QRT about 30 minutes or so prior to their SR but they get 
>>> credit for being on faithfully on CW and FT8 as well.  I know they're 
>>> getting close to wrapping up but hopefully they'll be on (CW) again this 
>>> evening.
>>> It's been good to have some DX operations QRV and bring some much needed 
>>> life to TB (which sure hasn't had much). . .TY0, 5V, and now J28, A3, and 
>>> T88.  The prop has been very poor.  CQing here in the evening brings no DX 
>>> responses and only a handful of EU EBN hits so far this season.  Thankfully 
>>> mornings have activity from our very stalwart VK friends (VK3HJ, VK2WF, 
>>> VK6GX, VK6IR, VK6LW, others) but only a handful of JA QSOs so far this 
>>> season (8 to be exact).  JA1LZR gets kudos for being QRV almost every 
>>> morning (NA time),  but without much prop, I think only limited success.
>>> I have yet to hit the VK4CT RBN CQing here in the mornings.  I don't think 
>>> this is totally attributable to the increased SFI. . . prop from here was 
>>> only marginally better two seasons ago when the SFI was very low.
>>> All that said, I encourage everyone to get on and make some noise.
>>> 73. . . Dave, W0FLS (in Iowa)
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Re: Topband: K9FD

[Hans Hjelmström]

To  OK1TN

YES Slavek,   I agree 100%.   K1JT and his computer-game has 
completely destroyed 160  and 6 meters and most other bands.
VERY SAD .Its a shame.

Me and many many others has almost gone QRT ,and people stay
away from our hobby.   But we had a lot of fun before FT 8.
Because now almost no Ham radio activity  ONLY FT 8….without 
challange and antennas.
 and no need for operating skills.



Take care and stay safe

SM6CVX  Hans
> 28 sep 2022 kl. 18:47 skrev ok1tn :
> 
> Hi to all topbanders.
> K9FD/KH6 was my first and only KH6 station. Merv thus enabled me to get WAS 
> on top band. Thanks for the QSL too. Unfortunately, the days of dx on the 
> top band ended with the expansion of FT8. I am 76 years old and the 
> remaining 4 countries until 300DXCC on TB is probably just a dream..
> 
> -- 
> 73 Slavek Zeler
> www.lc-variable.eu
> www.okdxf.eu
> _
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Re: Topband: The State of 160m

[Hans Hjelmström]

Hi Bob

Interesting info. You do not hate FT 8 ,,, I do.

I consider FT 8 killing all challenge,personal efforts and operating skills.

Sorry its the start of the end of our hobby,made by FT 8

Kind regards

Hans SM6CVX
> 1 jul 2022 kl. 18:57 skrev Bob Kile :
> 
> My comments on the state of 160m. First let me say I am old enough to have 
> experienced, Loran C with power limitations, LA police KMA367 on 1730, fish 
> boats, buoy markers, Spy Trawlers sending code groups, Long delayed echoes, 
> OHR, local DX chats on 1845-50 SSB, QSO’s with W1BB, K6SE, VS6DO, ZL2BT , 
> JA7AO and many others that are were legends in their day and now are in 
> higher places.
> 
> 
> I also had the opportunity to make thousands of contacts on 160m during solar 
> cycle 23 minimum 2005-2009 which for me was the ultimate hay day of 160m. 
> Experiencing new countries and new stations every evening on Cw with 100W was 
> truly an amazing event.
> 
> 
> Whilst attending some Dayton contest forums this year some information was 
> brought to light. A prominent DX-pedition group member commented that FT8 
> comprised 37% of the QSOs. For somebody like myself looking for a more 
> traditional achievement award of merit like WAZ on 160m CW it has become 
> virtually impossible in a life time.
> 
> 
> Most recently I have witnessed the devastating effects of the high costs of 
> DX-peditons and limited operating times to juggle various modes. A very 
> skilled and talented group went to 8Q7 in Maldives. Late in their operations 
> they did go to CW mode on 160. They called CQ for about 5-10 minutes at my 
> sunrise. I’m sure they were looking at RBN responses of which there are few 
> in Asia worth a damn and went quiet only to show up on FT8 after my sunrise 
> morning peak. It didn’t matter I had Q5 copy and had to switch antennas, turn 
> amplifier on and try to make it through the Asian chatter. This I might point 
> out happened not once but twice. Did I mention from out west this is a 10 
> minute window 11,000 miles away. Only one western station VE6WZ worked them 
> as a result of a spot I posted.
> 
> 
> I don’t hate FT8 but It’s not my focus. It is very useful due to the shear 
> numbers of operators and PSK Reporter for determining propagation. Alone it 
> has had a profound impact on the HF bands some of which has been good and 
> many cases not so. A good CW operator can easily copy -18 dB SN station. 
> Perhaps C6AGU’s "Rig In a Box" will help by cutting DX-pedition costs and 
> allow operators to be in comfort spending more time on air operating rather 
> than fiddling around with all needed accessories and beat many of the 
> environmental regulations.
> 
> 
> Bob W7RH
> 
> -- 
> W7RH DM35OJ
> 
> 
> If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say 
> the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little. George Carlin
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Re: Topband: I4EAT Fausto SK

[Hans Hjelmström]

Very sad to hear this. He was always a gentleman on any bands.
I am sure he was also a fantastic friend .
Keep safe
Hans SM6CVX
> 31 mar 2021 kl. 18:45 skrev Paolo Zaffi :
> 
> Guys,
> 
> with great sadness I must inform you that Fausto I4EAT passed away today due 
> to COVID.  He was a good friend and great DX'er not only on low bands but 
> also on VHF.
> 
> We will miss him.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Paolo I4EWH
> 
> 
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Topband: final from me

[Hans Hjelmström]

Hi folks

Been reading all sayings about FT8/FT4-business
.
MYSELF  I will NEVER ever use FT4 or FT 8. Been active Ham-operator since
1961. I am now 75 years old,and still active,and dx-expeditioner.

I say, this PC to PC business kills the challenge of our hobby.
I agree 100% with OK1RR and OK1TN  and SP2XF writing.AND others.

Of course, IF you like FT 4/FT 8 ,its up to you to use it.
If I do NOT like it, it must be acceptable for me to tell other Hams ,
I feel I do NOT like it. And I will NEVER use it.

In Sweden ,I know ,,,a LOT of Hams ( old-timers mainly ,but also new Hams) ,
that has stopped Ham-radio and sold all their equipment because of this PC to 
PC play game. 

WHY.  Well, they have always been chasing dx, by looking for hours ,
and with their own ears finally heard the weak dx, and they called the dx
on CW/SSB/RY using their challenge and equipment built during many many
years. And when not looking for expeditions, they have made nice chat on 
CW/SSB/RY with other Hams world-wide, talking and making social 
connection.Never mind if they have a big or smaller station.

How can we say its Ham-radio, when a dx-operator is using FT8/FT 4 
and making so called QSO:s on two or even more  ( up to 3 bands ) at
the same time. YES, its technically super, BUT is this what we want ???

I think ARRL/dxcc should make a separate class for this FT 8/FT 4 
business. NOT accept it for BAND/DXCC. It is NOT fair to let it compete
with CW/SSB/RY for BAND/DXCC.  

Finally ,last thing,why I do NOT like it. Before a dx-expedition were on 6 or 
160  meters during ALL expedition.NOW they share it with FT8/FT 4 and
we have less time to do a real QSO. AND for no expedition, I prefer to 
make a QSO and exchange information,and try to learn about the other person I 
work. Not just to click on a yellow line.
I will NEVER send a DONATION for a FT8 -expedition.

Last outside this FT 8-business. I also must say, that this remote-story 
is under NO control. YES, of course ,you can build a station less
than
150 kilometers or so from your home.PERFECT.  BUT build a station in
Haiti and sit and operate it from NYC, THATS really killing the pleasure
to work a new one.

Thanks for letting me give my feelings. I will NOT react on any replies.

From MAY until AUGUST I will be around 50098 CW ( ONLY ) looking
for dx I can hear in my ears. Last season I worked 7 stations in California
( info for K9YC ).So IF there had been no FT8-business, I am sure I had
worked at least 20.One day there was a 4 hours opening to all over USA ,east to 
west, and I worked 25 stations in 4 hours. IF it had been before all of
these Hams were on FT8 ,I had worked 100……...

Kind regards

SM6CVX   ( Since 1961 )   Hans
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Re: Topband: CQ Zones

[Hans Hjelmström]

AGREE 100 %  with you Martin /OK1RR.

This FT 8 PC to PC playgame is just killing our hobby,at least as I see it.

Take care and enjoy,and I am SURE ARRL will never listen to your
feelings.

Hans SM6CVX
> 9 mar 2021 kl. 15:36 skrev Martin Kratoska :
> 
> Oh, FT8 should be proclaimed as illegal for DXCC (WAZ, WAS etc.) in mixed 
> categories.
> This "mode" should be counted completely separated from traditional modes 
> like CW or SSB.
> 
> 73,
> Martin, OK1RR
> 
> 
> Dne 09. 03. 21 v 15:16 Ian Fugler napsal(a):
>> Hi, Dave
>> 
>> Zone 23 - JT5DX will be your man.  He is active in contests and puts out a 
>> good signal.
>> 
>> Zone 24 - will be more of a challenge.  I have worked XX9D and a couple of 
>> BY stations.  But you may need to use FT8 for the BY stations, since they 
>> seem strongly to prefer that mode.
>> 
>> 73 and GL!
>> 
>> Ian G4iiY
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+zen90387=zen.co...@contesting.com] On 
>> Behalf Of David Olean
>> Sent: 09 March 2021 13:30
>> To: topband@contesting.com
>> Subject: Topband: CQ Zones
>> 
>> I am not a certificate hunter, but I was curious to see how many CQ
>> zones I had worked on 160 meters.  Getting all 40 zones on 160 is a
>> challenge. My list includes 38 of the 40 CQ zones,  and only zones 23
>> and 24 are still unworked.. My question is how to nab these last two?
>> Part of my problem is the lack of stations available in those two spots.
>> A few weeks ago I was CQing in the early evening and worked R8WF on CW.
>> He is located in Zone 18 and just north of eastern Mongolia. (North of
>> Beijing)  I was very surprised at that QSO, as the band was empty with
>> few signals audible on CW. Shortly after we worked, he called again much
>> louder. It must have been right after his sun rise and he was a good S7
>> or so. The direct path is 360 degrees here and directly over the North
>> Pole. I was using my 45 degree beverage. I was stunned at how strong
>> R8WF was.
>> 
>> So what are the station call signs active in zones 23 and 24? Being a
>> relative newcomer to 160 and HF in general, I am not so familiar with
>> active DX call signs from around the world. I would suspect that China
>> is possible to work at my sun rise, but I have yet to hear anything from
>> there. Mongolia seems like another difficult nut to crack, hence my note
>> on who and what to look for!  Any help with call signs would be appreciated.
>> 
>> After the R8WF QSO, I am convinced that an antenna aimed due North is a
>> necessity in case that path decides to open. I am also going to make a
>> SE beverage, as I have been told that SE is a good direction for LP QSOs
>> on 160. I have no antenna for between 90 and 180 degrees azimuth.
>> 
>> Thank you
>> 
>> Dave K1WHS
>> 
>> 
>> _
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>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: Topband: VE6WZ mid season report

[Hans Hjelmström]

CONGRATS Steve, well done.
Keep safe
Hans SM6CVX

> 8 nov 2020 kl. 21:59 skrev VE6WZ_Steve :
> 
> Here is a 160m mid November report on the trans-polar European conditions and 
> activity from VE6WZ.  Generally conditions and CW activity have been good.
> If you haven’t been listening to 160m CW lately, maybe check it out! 
> (assuming the geo-mag has settled down)
> 
> Here are some stats from a VE6WZ log export for the 4 months from mid-August 
> till Nov8. (all CW mode)
> 
> 465   EU QSOs
> 116   Unique callsigns
> 26EU DXCC entities
> 
> Here is the breakdown of the EU country QSO count .  Perhaps this is activity 
> level, or maybe just propagation bias into VE6? (it seems like there is a lot 
> of CW activity from Sweden!)
> 
> SM 87
> DL  40
> R37
> G33
> OH 32
> ON 30
> OZ  29
> LY   28
> OK  23
> LA   21
> I  20
> F17
> SP  14
> PA  10
> OM 7
> UR  6
> YL   6
> HA  5
> LZ   5
> S5   5
> 9A  3
> CT  1
> EI1
> GD 1
> JW  1
> SV  1
> 
> And here is a list of the top 35 repeat QSOs in the VE6WZ log:
> 
> SM4DHF  25
> DL8LAS   18
> OZ7YY 17
> LY7M15
> SM5EDX   15
> ON7PQ 14
> OK1CF  12
> SM7BIC12
> IK7JTF   10
> LA1MFA   10
> ON4GPE   10
> RX3APM  10
> OH6RX 9
> OZ4MM   9
> SM2LIY 9
> G3PQA 7
> IV3PRK 7
> DF2PY  6
> G3YRO 6
> OH2IS   6
> DL8MKG  5
> LY4A 5
> OM2XW   5
> RA1QD 5
> SM2EKM  5
> SM6MCW5
> F5IN  4
> G4UFK  4
> LA7THA4
> OH5VT 4
> RA4LW 4
> RC3FL4
> SM2CEW 4
> YL2SM  4
> 8S0DX  3
> 
> 73, de steve VE6WZ
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Re: Topband: Good Conditions, Little Activity

[Hans Hjelmström]

SORRY Roger
FT 8 has killed Ham radio ,when you need your own skill and not trust 
a computer to make your connection.  I will NEVER use that mode.Unfortunately 
MNI MNI Sweden Hams have  almost gone QRT for good,because of this FT-8 and 
lack of activity on hearing modes.

Kind regards

Hans SM6CVX


> 9 okt 2020 kl. 10:20 skrev Roger Kennedy :
> 
> 
> It's such a shame that 160m Conditions for DX have been pretty good over the
> past week or two . . . 
> 
> Yet there are so few CW stations coming on the band !
> 
> I hear lots of us Europeans putting out endless CQ DX calls . . . but often
> getting no replies, despite good RBN Reports confirming the band is open.
> 
> Roger G3YRO
> 
> 
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Re: Topband: Anyone QRV in ND?

[Hans Hjelmström]

Hi Wes

I worked K0IDX on 29th of February.BIG signal into Europe.So guess he could be 
a good choice.  CW of course.A real QSO

73 and GL de SM6CVX  Hans

> 4 apr 2020 kl. 02:14 skrev Wes :
> 
> I should add, on CW.
> 
> 
> On 4/3/2020 5:05 PM, Wes wrote:
>> For want of something to do, I was checking out LoTW and see that I have 49 
>> states confirmed but lack North Dakota.  I've worked KC0W, but he doesn't 
>> use LoTW.
>> 
>> Is there anyone on here in ND that can QSL via that method who would try a 
>> QSO before the thunderstorms roll in?
>> 
>> Wes N7WS
>> 
>> _
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Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc

[Hans Hjelmström]

A absolut PERFECT explanation about the present situation and the future of our 
loved hobby. Unfortunately most young new Hams I have seen started using FT 8,
has already gone qrt. No challenge, no skill.
I will NOT discuss this any further. Please consider,and we will see what will 
happen.
Have a nice week-end
Hans SM6CVX

> 11 jan 2020 kl. 15:32 skrev Roger Kennedy :
> 
> 
> It's easy to appreciate why many people - who are passionate about the hobby
> - get upset about some of the things they see as being very negative to the
> hobby.
> 
> Here in Britain there were LOTS of well-respected Amateurs who were actively
> involved in Jamming the VHF Repeaters when they first came on the air in the
> 1970s. I would never have done such a thing, but I appreciated why those
> people were concerned about it having a negative effect on the hobby.
> People could now not bother to put up a decent antenna for 2m, yet work
> stations 50 miles away.  
> 
> However, most new amateurs that did that very quickly got bored with the
> hobby, as there was no sense of achievement, no reason to self-improve . . .
> and disappeared off the air.  Those that got the satisfaction of working
> stations further away through their own efforts were usually the ones that
> sustained interest in the hobby.
> 
> (It's interesting that there is almost NO activity on the various Repeaters
> here in Britain these days . . . which kind of confirms my point!)
> 
> I think it's the same logic that many of us apply to the computer-based
> modes/protocols . . . that there is no skill involved, and so no real sense
> of achievement, like there is when puling a really weak DX station out of
> the noise . . . with the result that those people will very soon lose
> interest in the hobby.
> 
> So those of you who are so keen on them, please at least understand our
> motives . . . it's because of our passion for the hobby that we are against
> these computer-based modes . . . in the same way as I personally am against
> VHF Repeaters or accessing remote Transmitting or even Receiving sites.
> 
> Roger G3YRO
> 
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Re: Topband: FT-8 Contest would be great for Topband

[Hans Hjelmström]

And its even not Ham  radio.Its fake PC Computer business.
Sorry.Its the end of Ham radio
Hans SM6CVX


> 10 jan 2020 kl. 20:06 skrev W0MU Mike Fatchett :
> 
> 1.5 million hits for FT8? WOW!
> 
> On 1/10/2020 11:38 AM, Herbert Schoenbohm wrote:
>> I know the purists will flame me for this but look at the
>> frequency conservation this would present and look at the activity
>> statistics for only the past couple of hours,
>> 
>> AIf the contest was designed well sub-channels could be recommended for the
>> various continents as Stew Perry use to urge for intercontinental QSO's
>> from 1825-1830.
>> 
>> Here are the amazing stats for only two hours.
>> 
>> Modes over last 2 hours
>> Mode Count
>> FT8 1549146
>> FT4 41733
>> JS8 7895
>> CW 6894
>> PSK31 433
>> JT65 383
>> OPERA 132
>> JT9 65
>> MSK144 37
>> OLIVIA 22
>> OLIVIA 8 22
>> JT6M 18
>> ROS 14
>> DOMINO 13
>> PI4 12
>> OLIVIA-8 9
>> PSK63 9
>> FSK441 8
>> JT65B 7
>> WSPR 6
>> RTTY 5
>> MT63-500 1
>> SIM31 1
>> THOR 1
>> THOR22 1
>> PSK 1
>> CONTESTI 1
>> 
>> What do you think?
>> 
>> 
>> Herb, KV4FZ
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Topband: Why is ZONE 2 so Rare in JAPAN???

[Hans Hjelmström]

Agree with Ed/N1UR to 100%. Thats the big point.
Kind regards to you all
Hans SM6CVX
> 11 nov 2019 kl. 18:25 skrev Ed Sawyer :
> 
> As JFK said "not because its easy but because its hard".  Making it easy by
> "decoding inaudible signals" should give no true 160M fan pleasure.  The
> whole point of learning the prop and building the transmit and receive
> arrays and placing stations near the coast etc etc etc is BECAUSE its hard.
> A Zone 2 160M DXpedition for CQ 160 CW would be a far better place and time
> to try and work Asia, in my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> Zone 2 to Asia should stay hard, otherwise whats the pleasure?  I worked BY
> long path on 80M for my one and only zone 24 on 80M. Have never worked it on
> 160M.  I hope to someday.  But will skip the "sub audible" attempts to make
> that happen.
> 
> 
> 
> Ed  N1UR
> 
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Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed

[Hans Hjelmström]

THANKS Dan . I agree 100 %.

I said already last year.  FT 8 and K1JT will kill our hobby.

It takes away all efforts, challenge and personal touch.
I saw yesterday 2 Hams saying,they will sell their equipment and go QRT for 
ever in our hobby.

The ONLY possible hope, is ,if ARRL change the rules,and NOT include this FT 8 
in mixed band dxcc:s.Make a special FT 8 award.
That might help.And that dx-expeditions will be ONLY CW/SSB/RY 75 % and may be 
FT 8   25 %.Fair ?

As yourself, I will never touch this mode, and I can also NOT get any fun in 
having
my PC make these connections.

We are probably some 50 % of all active Hams  feeling the same, BUT answer from 
ARRL 
( to me at least ) , was a very arrogant,,,take it or leave it.

Already authorities has started to ask for Amateur frequencies to be given to 
other
activities.

I am happy ,I was active 1960 up to this day,and have had so much fun,,,BEFORE

Take care,and ONLY by sharing our feelings,we might find a way to change this
unfortunate changement. I know, MANY MANY SM Hams ,that still TRY to stay by 
human to human connections like CW/SSB/RY, but for how long ??

And even more.New Hams will not know CW.How many years will they enjoy 
this PC to PC connections. Probably only few years,and then QRT.That will 
be the end of our hobby.
Thanks for the QSO on 6 meter CW some years ago,,,by the way,,,

Regards

Hans  SM6CVX
> 6 aug 2019 kl. 18:32 skrev d...@np2j.com:
> 
> I have been reading the posts starting with Jeff K1ZM's first post on the 
> 160/FT8 issue.
> Jeff and I had some personal discussions about this during the V84SAA 
> DXpedition.
> I have waited to comment because I am sad that the Hobby I love is dying.
> 
> From personal experience the last couple of years I can tell you that Digital 
> has totally killed CW/SSB activity on Six meters. Two years ago I could get 
> on Six when band was open and start a pileup in a few minutes by calling CQ 
> and run station after station.
> 
> The first time I got on Six meters was June 6, 2017 I worked over 200 Eu 
> stations in a few hours. That Summer I had many good runs into Europe, 
> whenever there were Digital spots I could make CW contacts. (I think the so 
> called advantage of FT8 pulling signals out of the noise that can't be worked 
> on CW is a myth) Quite often I would "open the band" by calling CQ.
> Move on to last year 2018 and I would have to call CQ for quite a while to 
> make a contact and then only a few people calling. This year I can call CQ 
> for an hour and not work anyone. Sad.
> 
> The same thing that has happened to Six meters has spread to the other bands 
> including our beloved Topband. Three years ago I could call CQ on 160 and get 
> a nice little pile-up going, work 50-100 guys in a hour or two. Two years ago 
> the pile ups shrank to nothing, and last season I could call CQ for 10-15 
> minutes and NO ONE calls! The only time anyone is on is for a Contest or when 
> a DXpedition is on.
> 
> Many DX stations and worse still, DXpeditions are running mainly/only FT8 on 
> 160.
> 
> Personally I have less than Zero interest in clicking a mouse and having a 
> computer do all the communicating. I can not see what satisfaction you get by 
> making a "Contact" in this manner.
> 
> 
> But the fact that little skill is needed for these "contacts", nor little in 
> the way of equipment (No big antennas, no Amps, etc) nor the fact that it is 
> totally boring, these are not the reasons I say that Digital modes are the 
> DEATH OF HAM RADIO.
> 
> Please don't tell me "They said the same thing abt SSB" it is NOT the same! 
> SSB did not take the Human out of the loop.
> 
> First off: What happens to all the Amateur Radio equipment manufacturers that 
> make CW keyers, paddles, microphones, headphones, etc??? Don't need any of 
> those things to make digital "contacts"
> 
> Since Digital is so superior, no need for High power Linear Amps, no big 
> towers, no big antennas, so all those companies will go by the wayside 
> eventually also.
> 
> AND MOST IMPORTANTLY:
> As others have pointed out, what happens when we lose our spectrum space to 
> commercial interests?
> 
> How can we justify our need of large frequency bands when only a few Khz of 
> bandwidth is only being used?
> 
> When the Internet provides bandwidths up to hundreds of MB/second and with 5G 
> GB/Sec speeds, compare this to our Digital modes that provide a speed of a 
> few characters a minute???
> 
> How will we justify our need of RF spectrum when we are communicating 
> digitally only a few characters a minute?
> 
> 
> The folks I have talked to give only one reason for using FT8: "It is an easy 
> way to work a new one".
> 
> Now since everyone has this new "easy" way to work new countries, and the 
> "contacts" count towards the Normal Mixed DXCC award, everyone is grabbing 
> new ones the easy way, hence the shift in activity to Digital modes.
> So what motivates the FT8 activity is the desire to 

Re: Topband: 160

[Hans Hjelmström]

Agree 100 % with  Ed N1UR.
Its the same situation on 6 meters. Most expeditions go ONLY FT 8 nowadays.It 
gives more QSO:s ,it looks like.And more or less no options to find good 
openings on old modes.

I will never go FT 8 , because I feel, many many QSO on FT 8 , you do not hear 
anything 
in your own ears from the station youwork..  I understand there is many 
many with
also big audio making qso between each others on FT 8,  BUT also even more 
making
qso ,,, without hearing anything. You need ,,,according to me,,, no 
efforts, no challenge,
and no human touch to each others.  Most times, there is a completely empty band
on both 6 and 160….BUT people do a lot of connections with their computers,
handling the traffic.   IF only arrl, did not allow connections below 0 db in 
any band dxcc,
and had a separate FT 8 ( unheard signals connection ) award ,that should solve 
a lot.
I asked them about this possibility about 2 years ago,and only got a very 
arrogant 
answer, on a fair question.

Last thing. What will happen, when authorities  find out, that Ham radio only 
need a
few few kc:s in future. Probably we will loose most of our bands of today.

In 20 years from now, also ,, CW is gone for ever. Any newcomers to our so 
loved 
hobby, do not need to make that effort to try and learn CW.They will play
a computer game instead.Probably they will not do that for 50 years as we did. 
They probably get bored within a few years.

Finally, of course,  everyone do what they prefer. This discussion is ONLY ment 
to put light on the  possible future for our hobby,and how is best for us Hams
and clubs ( like arrl )  how to handle it.How should we adjust our hobby for 
the best.?

Absolutely no bad feelings for these doing FT 8, BUT  I think it will kill our 
hobby.

Kind regards
Hans SM6CVX
> 3 aug 2019 kl. 12:51 skrev Ed Sawyer :
> 
> Folks, for me, the real issue is the lack of people coming on CW on 160M for
> DXpeditions.  Lets be honest, many people don't like the struggle of Qs on
> 160 like we do.  And many are not great at CW.  By using FT8 on 160, they
> can "satisfy" topbanders while they operate on another band at the same time
> - routinely done all the time now by the way.  Is that automated?  Don't
> really care personally.  The problem is they just don't show up on CW.
> Increasingly, for the whole DXpedition.  So that has added an additional
> element to 160 DXing for me - prop, competition, and praying they get on CW.
> 
> 
> 
> I made the choice early on - not using FT8 and kidding myself that is
> somehow me working the station - plus honestly, its not fun.  Might be
> satisfying to see the counter go green, but if you compare it to sex, I
> think it will make sense.  If your robot does it, is it the same?  Enough
> said.
> 
> 
> 
> It really doesn't even matter about the award discussion.  If DXpeditions
> are not operating 160 on CW, who cares?
> 
> 
> 
> For me, its trashed 160M DXIng.  And I am sure I am not alone.
> 
> 
> 
> You will find me on the bands working whoever is left.  But the quest for
> 160M countries is over for me.  Sad but done.
> 
> 
> 
> Ed  N1UR
> 
> _
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Re: Topband: Summer Update & a Surprise

[Hans Hjelmström]

Hi Andy and Nick

This has been asked to arrl, BUT you only get a very unfriendly answer.
Take it or leave,,,They don’t want to lan to this arguments

That solution had made all difference in the amateur group, for sure
Kind regards

Hans sm6cvx


> 1 aug 2019 kl. 14:53 skrev uy0zg :
> 
> Hi Andy  Hi All
> 
> Absolutely simple and correct.
> 
> Why don't ARRL leaders understand this?
> 
> It is not possible to equate the results of a robot operator with the results 
> of a human operator.
> 
> For FT8, there should only be a separate category for DXCC.
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Nick, UY0ZG
> http://www.topband.in.ua
> 
> Andrzej_SP6AEG писал 2019-08-01 14:20:
>> In my humble opinion, FT8 should have nothing to do with the competitors of
>> DXCC Mix, CW, SSB or RTTY. RTTY emission was killed in short wavelengths,
>> expeditions in the increasing percentage use FT8 as the basic emission and
>> this is not due to the lack of propagation. I think, the issue of FT8 should
>> be treated as a separate competition not included in DXCC Mix, CW, SSB and
>> digital. Then we can talk about competition. Otherwise, it loses the value
>> of DXCC from before FT8. The discussions on this list about receiving
>> antennas, the fight against QRM, etc. will end.
>> Andy
>> SP6AEG
>> ==
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of uy0zg
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 8:09 PM
>> To: Peter Sundberg
>> Cc: daraym...@iowatelecom.net; k...@aol.com; topband@contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Summer Update & a Surprise
>> Hi Topbanders !
>> Everything is easy to fix.
>> There should be a strict separation of achievements -
>> 1. They are made only by man.
>> 2. They are made only on the computer.
>> Delete Mixed Achievement Chart :
>> http://www.arrl.org/system/dxcc/view/DXCC-160M-20190731-A4.pdf#page=1=a
>> uto,-12,848
>> And then FT8 (and many future FTs ) will lose popularity.
>> Only children will play with them ...
>> ---
>> Nick, UY0ZG
>> http://www.topband.in.ua
>> Peter Sundberg писал 2019-07-31 20:31:
>>> If we CW operators would all stay on a very tight frequency passband
>>> and call CQ every 15 seconds I bet there would be a lot of interesting
>>> things happening to us also. Especially if we do it 24/7 or at least
>>> every hour that we are not asleep.
>>> However, PC-automation has it's advantages, some are at work while
>>> working DX and others are gardening. Some even sit by the radio/PC and
>>> watch things happen :-)
>>> Bottom line is, we need to activate our transmitters more and not just
>>> listen for others. A perfect example is Bill KH7XS who opens up almost
>>> any seemingly "dead" band to Europe, at any time, just by calling CQ
>>> for a while.
>>> CW is not only great fun as you say Dave, CW is King!
>>> 73
>>> Peter SM2CEW
>> _
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Re: Topband: Summer Update & a Surprise

[Hans Hjelmström]

UNFORTUNATELY  K1JT  and FT 8  killed amateur radio on 6 meters.
It will kill it on 160 meters,and SOON it will kill all amateur radio activity 
on all bands.

Soon authorities will reduce our bands,as we do not use these frequencies any 
more.

SORRY its all gone from enjoy ,challenge and efforts to a computer fake game.

CW will be unknown in 20 years,as most of elder Hams are SK ,and newcomers do 
not need it.

SAD and unfortunately facts.

Kind regards  ( still refuse FT 8  ,and will never use it) 

SM6CVX Hans
> 31 jul 2019 kl. 18:39 skrev daraym...@iowatelecom.net:
> 
> Interesting observations Jeff.  I will remain on 160 CW as I have in years 
> past.  I enjoy the visceral satisfaction that comes with pulling out the weak 
> signals and having direct, unencumbered interaction with the station to which 
> I'm communicating. . .or trying. . .hi.  CW is still great fun.
> 
> 73. . . Dave, W0FLS
> 
> -Original Message- From: k1zm--- via Topband
> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 7:20 AM
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: Summer Update & a Surprise
> 
> Hi Gang
> 
> 
> It is mid summer here and E season on 6M has been fun to play with while 160m 
> is pretty S L O W as it usually is.
> On these pages there has been alot of chatter regarding FT8 - (which 
> basically took over 6M DX'ing starting in July 2917 - all DX is now on 50.313 
> FT8 - which is why I had to adopt this mode in order to continue DX'ing on 
> 6m).  It was either do that or give up operating on 6M during E season.
> I do hope that CW continues to thrive on Topband - but this past season there 
> was TONS of DX on FT8 and in my opinion LESS DX on CW than in prior years.   
> It is quite possible to work in JA on 160m from here on FT8 with 100w out - 
> which would have been quite rare indeed on CW as I recall (I do not think I 
> ever worked JA with 100w from here - but who knows?)
> Today as I write this - I am listening to 28.074Mhz on a totally DEAD 10m 
> band.  If I tune the entire CW portion and the whole SSB portion, there is 
> NOTHING - repeat NOTHING there - no signals whatsoever to be found.
> Yet on 28.074Mhz - I just worked a whole page of Europeans on FT8 - to my 
> almost total INCREDULITY!!
> I am not sure how I feel about all of this - but one thing is SURE - the DX 
> world has changed - and there is no looking back.
> I love CW on Topband and used to love CW on 6m - but that no longer xists  
> -so I do hope the 6m migration to FT8 does not repeat itself on Topband!
> To all a good summer and CU on CW again starting in September.
> 73 JEFF   VY2ZM
> 
> 
> .
> 
> _
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Re: Topband: Lack of NA Activity on CW

[Hans Hjelmström]

YES SORRY but FT 8 has killed Amateur Radio more or less.
Instead there is a computer game going on.Computers picking up signals
not even being able to be heard by humans. Real shame.
And ARRL allow these game-connections to count for awards that BEFORE needed
challange and efforts and operators skill.
Many many operators has already lost interest in our hobby,and in some years ,
the hobby is gone or just computer game.
Kind regards
Hans SM6CVX
> 23 apr 2019 kl. 09:23 skrev Victor Goncharsky via Topband 
> :
> 
> This is not always the case. I have noticed long openings to Caribbean during 
> last year 6m season with signal levels good enough for reliable CW QSOs but 
> only FT8 portion of the band was alive.
> Will see what will happen this year. Top band game is almost over with the 
> last 3 new ones worked in April (but missed XR0) so 6m antenna is on its way 
> to the tower this week.
> 
> 
>> Вторник, 23 апреля 2019, 5:20 UTC от kol...@rcn.com:
>> 
>> 
>> Just as a note , most of the DX operations on 6 meters moved to FT8 because 
>> of the short, almost momentary  nature of many 6 meter DX openings. But w 
>> hen the band supports longer prop ag ation periods, you will still find at 
>> least some DX on SSB and CW. 
>> 
>> For the most part, HF DX openings are of longer duration and don't particul 
>> arly require FT8, especially as opposed to CW. Of course, some operators 
>> prefer FT8 and that's cool too. 
>> 
>> 73 Kevin K3OX 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>> 
>> From: "Andreas Junge" < andr...@n6nu.org > 
>> To: "Roger Kennedy" < ro...@wessexproductions.co.uk > 
>> Cc:  topband@contesting.com
>> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2019 7:57:10 PM 
>> Subject: Re: Topband: Lack of NA Activity on CW 
>> 
>> Roger, 
>> 
>> Is your statement that you don’t have enough opportunities to rag-chew on 
>> 160M? 
>> 
>> There is plenty of CW activity if/when there is a new DXCC entity to be had 
>> like VI9NI. Lots of OPs are calling within minutes of a juicy one showing 
>> up. I think there are more stations with 160M capability than before. 
>> 
>> They just don’t want to talk to the same people over and over again. 
>> 
>> It looks like that DXpeditions are making it more of an effort these days to 
>> get on 160M. 
>> 
>> The same CW->FT8 move has happened on 6M where almost all of the DX is now 
>> FT8. The cheese has moved. Go where the cheese is or starve. 
>> 
>> It take a new DXCC any mode any time and that’s just me. Same as AA6VB, I 
>> live in the Bay Area my lot size dictates what I can put up for 160M. To a 
>> degree FT8 is a necessity to make any progress. 
>> 
>> And yes, I was fortunate enough to work VI9NI on CW/160M - thanks to the 
>> team for showing up during the West Coast sunrises. 
>> 
>> To each their own. 
>> 
>> 73, Andreas, N6NU 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 22, 2019, at 1:28 PM, Roger Kennedy < ro...@wessexproductions.co.uk 
>>> > wrote: 
>>> 
>>> Well as far as I'm concerned Mike, FT8 would just be my computer having a 
>>> contact, not me personally . . . so it's not something I would ever be 
>>> interested in. 
>>> 
>>> But if that's the case, it's even more daft . . . as there's LOTS of people 
>>> who complain about the lack of DX activity on CW these days.  But if more 
>>> people came on, there would be more CW activity ! 
>>> 
>>> Roger G3YRO 
>>>  
>>> 
 Hi Roger 
>>> 
 Did you look up in the FT8 band?  That is where everyone is. 
>>> 
 Mike va3mw 
>>> 
>>> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> 73, Victor Goncharsky US5WE/K1WE (UW5W in VHF contests, ex UB5WE), P.E.
> UARL Technical and VHF Committies
> DXCC Honor Roll #1 (Mixed, Phone), 9BDXCC, 8BWAS
> DXCC card checker (160 meters).
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Re: Topband: Lack of QSO's

[Hans Hjelmström]

Hi George
Thanks for QSO from P29VCX to C6AGU,  even that it was not top band
73 Hans SM6CVX
> 17 feb 2019 kl. 18:05 skrev GEORGE WALLNER :
> 
> The bands may be quiet at times, but last night from C6AGU I had contest runs 
> that were more like what you experience on 20 m: 180 - 200 QSO-s per hour 
> peaks.  No lack of QSO-s here.
> 
> TKS and 73,
> George,
> AA7JV/C6AGU
> 
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Re: Topband: Straws in the Wind ....A 160m Dx'ing Sea Change is Upon us!

[Hans Hjelmström]

Good morning all

As it probably can not be stopped. The ONLY way seems that ARRL acts, and
NOT accept these modes ( unhearing modes)  for todays dxcc. If they make a
separate dxcc for these modes, anyone that prefer these kind of QSO can 
use these for that NEW dxcc. And it will not impact ,,,todays dxcc.

And all others can continue with the challenge and work new ones , by the help
of improved antennas , operating skills   aso  aso

BUT as I understand ( wrong or not ) they ( arrl ) are not interested to act.

Have a fine Eastern .

Hans SM6CVX

> 1 apr 2018 kl. 09:16 skrev Peter Sundberg :
> 
> For those who have not yet seen how the future of 160m band harvesting - not 
> DX'ing -  will be done, check this video out
> 
> http://ae5x.blogspot.se/2018/01/video-fully-automated-ft8-qsos.html
>  
> 
> Apparently SV5DKL made 13.000 QSO's on the bands in a few months, totally 
> without operator intervention. I bet many hams were happy to put SV5 as a new 
> DXCC in their log, Isn't it wonderful that his computer was so helpful with 
> that while the operator was busy with other things.
> 
> As for the legal aspects of unattended operation of a ham radio station - who 
> will be able to tell if the operator is there or not as it is fully automatic 
> anyway..
> 
> In the near future - if we embrace this way of operating -   for Wednesday 
> activity nights on 160m we just let our computer do the work and check in the 
> morning how many contacts that were made and how many that are already 
> credited via LotW. Simple as that.
> 
> In contrast to this digital automation it was very interesting to read Jeff 
> K1ZM's report from the Spratly expedition on how the experienced and highly 
> skilled crew put in a BIG effort to make real radio contacts. Way to go!  And 
> I am glad that they did not leave an FT8 robot station behind, neatly tucked 
> away in a corner of the conference room.. :-)
> 
> I do not want to take part in this modern Internet driven computer game. If 
> people would disconnect their FT8 computers from the report services on the 
> net there would be a lot less amazing contacts in the noise as the "a priori" 
> advantage is lost. Then it would be more apparent what the radio channel is 
> actually providing for them.
> 
> I think that the statement from Ken K4ZW in his recent posting is very 
> appropriate:
> 
> "For those who think guys like me are dinosaurs, I would kindly suggest you 
> don't understand what motives us. 73 Ken K4ZW"
> 
> We can't change/stop this new lazy way of automatic band harvesting. Many 
> will even make huge amounts of money on the new way of operating.
> 
> But we can still do it the old fashion way, as it pleases us to make radio 
> contacts. Therefore I will continue to populate the 160m band with my CW 
> signal until there are no more stations to work.
> 
> 
> 73
> Peter SM2CEW
> 
> 
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Re: Topband: Straws in the Wind ....A 160m Dx'ing Sea Change is Upon us!

[Hans Hjelmström]

FULLY AGREE.  Perfect written. THANKS.

BUT it is easy to solve this.
If ARRL make a special award for no hearing QSO and make these
computer to computer connections ONLY valid for this awardanyone that
like to work dxcc this way  can do so.Years ago they claimed minimum 339 or 33 
on a 
confirmation of a QSO  now they accept things much below possibility to hear
in your rx.

Final and PSE Happy Eastern and cu this season 6 meters and next on top band CW,
SSB,RTTY.Now to the dinning table for Eastern snaps,,,.

Hans SM6CVX
> 30 mar 2018 kl. 19:02 skrev Ed Sawyer :
> 
> My thoughts on FT8:
> 
> 
> 
> -  How is it actually a Q from our normal perspective?  The comments
> Jeff made on the fact that 2 operators (on both sides of the circuit) could
> see evidence of each other for 20 minutes before the "computers" finally
> made the connection - is proof that the operator is not making the QSO.
> 
> -  There is a floating robot in the Pacific making FT8 QSOs with
> people right now - unattended.
> 
> -  3Z9DX has stated that they will leave an FT8 station going 24/7
> (which means unattended) on T31.  
> 
> -  Are these what we want to count as QSOs?  What about in contests
> - FT8 is already infiltrating VHF contests.  Should they be considered valid
> contest Qs - while you sleep?
> 
> -  I agree with Jeff and others that for people that that consider
> topband a PTA to operate and/or are not CW operators - 160M looks like the
> perfect place to drop a robot and go concentrate on something else.  But
> isn't this a slippery slope?  What about 10M/12M since the sunspots are low.
> Or 80M because the static crashes in the tropics are terrible - etc.  Before
> you know it the whole DXpedition is an FT8 robot while the "crew" is
> lounging about the pool with the XYL/YLs.
> 
> -  If we continue to facilitate such nonsense, they we deserve what
> we get in my opinion.  If we decide that the band counter is so important we
> don't care how we have to get it, then its time to look in the mirror folks.
> 
> -  On the other hand, maybe some people are happier with the
> computer doing the heavy lifting of digging out the QSO.  Personally, count
> me out of that list.
> 
> 
> 
> Ed  N1UR
> 
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Re: Topband: Straws in the Wind ....A 160m Dx'ing Sea Change is Upon us!

[Hans Hjelmström]

SORRY to say. Of course everyone do what they like to do,
BUT  FT8 and ,,,no hearing QSO:s,,, will destroy our hobby.
Same for me last 6 meter season . Had a 1 hour opening on 6 meter from Florida, 
to Minnesota and California   on CWBUT made 7 QSO during 1 hour of open 
band. Most people were on FT8  making ,contacts ?  computer to computer , 
and very very
few on SSB or CW.   FT8 should be ok IF signal were minimum  minus 1 db. 
Everything below that,you can not hear…..

Sorry. Lets TRY to activate 6 meter coming season on SSB and CW as much
as we enjoy,and may be ,,, we see a change back to normal.

Kind regards

Hans SM6CVX
> 30 mar 2018 kl. 18:12 skrev Jim N7US :
> 
> I also observed the same on 6M last summer when the switch was flipped and
> FT8 replaced CW and SSB on 6M.  I've enjoyed 6M for only a few years, but I
> lost all interest, despite my 6L SteppIR and KPA500, when that happened.  
> 
> I've had a handful of FT8 QSOs early on, but I got no satisfaction using it.
> It wasn't FUN for me.
> 
> I have simple, wire antennas for 80 and 160 but I've enjoyed those bands for
> many years.  I was elated to work 3B9C on 160 from AZ in 2004 using a half
> sloper (yes, at his SR).
> 
> I also enjoy RTTY and am almost on that Honor Roll, though the RTTY DXCC was
> changed to the Digital DXCC a few years ago.  All of my contacts are on
> RTTY, with none on PSK or other digital modes, so that has lost some of its
> appeal.
> 
> I sold my 87A but still have my KPA500 while I wait for my KPA1500.  I am
> questioning whether I should buy it given the rush to FT8.
> 
> Maybe I'm a "grumpy old man" but I don't think I'll mind eventually
> downsizing with a simpler station because the hobby will have changed.  I'd
> even be OK with RHR from "the home" but I wouldn't use it for competition.
> 
> Contesting, including CWops' CWTs, is still fun, but DXing won't be the
> same.
> 
> 73, Jim N7US
> 
> -Original Message-
> 
> 
> IMHO, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the demise of CW (alas). 
> Between FT8 and RHR, topband standings as we have known them are virtually
> meaningless.  The guy with a  backyard vertical, reasonable radial system,
> and 100w can easily accomplish on topband (and get equal DXCC credit) what
> has historically taken a significant effort. . .QRO, large antennas/arrays,
> and receive antennas.  As for the DXpeditions, they will quickly migrate to
> this mode with the improving QSO throughput as it requires comparatively 
> little skill on the part of the operators.   For me personally, it is 
> disappointing to watch it all unfold.  But unfold, it will.   73. . 
> .Dave, W0FLS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Topband: Wednesday 160m DX Activity Night

[Hans Hjelmström]

Roger

They are all on FT8 more or less.
Then you do not need to hear the station you work, and you can even stay late 
in bed.
Computer fix all QSO, for you.
Unfortunately , this is killing our hobby, IF arrl  is not making it a separate 
award ,, for NO hearing QSO´+ s… BUT they do not care,,

Sorry to be so negative at Eastern,BUT I think this is the case.

Anyway have fun,what ever is remaining of our hobby.

Hans  SM6CVX  since 1961


> 29 mar 2018 kl. 11:55 skrev Roger Kennedy :
> 
> Well conditions seemed pretty good last night . . . my RBN reports were
> certainly encouraging from several NA stations - one was even 49 dB over the
> noise !
> 
> However, there was a distinct lack of activity - I stayed on from 0100Z for
> nearly 2 hours, but only worked 9 NA stations.
> 
> Nothing like the dozens of stations that came on a few weeks ago when we
> started these Wednesdays . . .
> 
> Come on guys !
> 
> 73 Roger G3YRO
> 
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Re: Topband: Working dupes on a band

[Hans Hjelmström]

Hi Roger 
Agree 100%. Also for me ,,,FT8 and JT65 is NOT a Ham radio QSO.As I see it.

Its computer talking to a computer without human help.
NEVER from me either. BUT these people that enjoy FT8 aso and remote stations
from each side of big countries like USA and Russia, they can of course do so.
They enjoy it and thats that.
73 and lets go for a QSO when you hear at least the one you work.
Hans SM6CVX


> 2 feb 2018 kl. 00:43 skrev Roger Kennedy :
> 
> 
> Sorry Jay . . . but not in a million years !
> 
> That's exactly what I wanted to get away from . . .
> 
> My suggestion of having a 160m DX Activity night every Wednesday was to get
> people on the band to have PROPER QSOs !
> 
> Thank you for all the nice emails I've received about this . . .
> 
> Let's hope it goes from strength to strength.
> 
> 73 Roger G3YRO
> 
> -
> You guys shud try FT8 on 160..DX stations hear and decode everybody at the 
> same time - no QRM !! They then just work their way down the list...nobody 
> interferes with anybody else -everybody gets a chance...jay ny2ny  
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Roger Kennedy
> Wessex Radio Productions
> 
> Tel: 0191 250 2715
> Website: http://wessexproductions.co.uk
> 
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Re: Topband: (no subject)

[Hans Hjelmström]

Hallo Calle

They are all on computer to computer FT8 mode ..Signals not being heard by 
operator.
Ham radio is ,,,no more only computer doing the job,and all can
do something else,while computer get log filled.
Sorry  but same indications as on 50 mc last summer.
Have fun Calle and hope ,,( but guess no way ) it will change back
to dx-ing by challenge of fixing great antennas and to HEAR the other station
you work
Kind Regards and Gott Nytt År

SM6CVX Hasse


> 12 jan 2018 kl. 16:32 skrev Carl Jonsson :
> 
> If everyone is checking rbn and dx spots and not calling cq, there is no
> activity.
> 73 Carl SM6CPY
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Re: Topband: FT8

[Hans Hjelmström]

Correct Don/W2MPK
A separate  digital dxcc  for FT8/JT65  should make it.These contacts no good
for the other band/CW/SSB/Mixed awards. Just a separate one.
BUT the official at arrl refused to even think of it. Very unpleasant answer 
from him.

Kind regards
Hans SM6CVX


> 25 okt 2017 kl. 16:03 skrev Donald Moth via Topband :
> 
> There was no thrill in the first FT8 contact I made  like the one I received 
> when I worked W1BB using a Central Electronics 20A and a homebrew amp using 4 
> 6AG7 tubes in grounded grid and an inverted " L " only 40 feet up.
> Yes I'm an old geezer, be 90 in December and think there should be a separate 
> digital DXCC. Only my openion.
> Don W2MPK for OVER 60 YEARS.
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