Re: Topband: ssb contest stations hogging cw portion

[chet moore]

CHAMPIONS ADJUST !.  

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of W0MU Mike 
Fatchett
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2019 7:57 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: ssb contest stations hogging cw portion

*II. BANDS:* Six bands only: 1.8, 3.5, 7, 14, 21 and 28 MHz. Observance 
of established band plans is strongly encouraged.

It is not a rule.  This has been a common practice in contests for years 
as people don't want to change their antennas just for SSB as CW and FT8 
seem to be the preferred DX modes.

It is just a hand full of days per year.  We should be happy there is a 
good turn out and the bands are being used!

W0MU

On 10/26/2019 12:10 PM, John Randall via Topband wrote:
> I am getting rather peed off with all these contest stations operating QRO in 
> the cw section of topband. Where are the contest  watchdogs ?
>
> 73John - M0ELS
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Re: Topband: Inverted L improvement question - Part 2

[chet moore]

Hi Guy

Disclaimer noted. That hoarding gene is much more common than most people
think  I had an SB101, SB-200. the SB101 is gone but the  SB 200 and 2 Drake
R4C's and T4Xc's are Still in residence.

My mp 1000 was indeed used at high power multi ops.  Mine was one of the 5
We used at every cq ww cw and SSB and Arrl CW and SSB contest up at W3PP
from
1995 until Dallas perished in that plane crash when taking off from
Charleston S C.  I was supposed to be on that plane which crashed leaving
Charleston SC for Florida and out to C6. After weeks of planning I had to
cancel out the day before the flight. 


I bought my MP-1000 new after using the MP's at W3PP it has the clix mod in
it courtesy of W3PP who spent a full day putting the mod
In all of 4 of his. It has just come back after being gone over by Byron
wa4geg,  I didn't know to have him check the choke but he did install the
new solid state freq readout and a new CAT board. It has every filter that
will fit In it including the w2jvn roofing filter.

I Have Known howie NY4A from when he was K4PQL and when his BIG antenna was
a TA-33 in a tree and all he had was wires through the woods. It sure wasnt
his qth in Lorton va that gave him a good signal as he was basically located
in a gulch.  We used to ride together to the PVRC meetings at the red
Cross building in Arlington Va. he was one of our main ops when I ran the
operation at K4CG along with Dallas K3WUW who later picked up W3PP.  Dallas
and I both worked for Vic Clark W4KFC. When I lived in Dale city, Howie was
the one who climbed the trees in my back yard to put up My 80 m dipole and
160m inverted vee. I climbed my own tower  as well as towers at W3PP but
trees..not so much.

As for K3-s  I operated 2 dx contests at NR4M.  I'm not a big 80M  op and I
planned to operate 10 or 15M because you almost need to go to a 1 week
school
To learn BIP, BOP and which antenna to use at what time of day with those 20
m stacks.  As it turns out the 80M op didn't  show up so they asked if I
Would fill the chair until the 80m  op came in. What a sweet setup. this was
4 or 5 years back but my first time with actual"hands on" a k3.  Actually,
there were 2 of them on 80M And the antennas were if I remember correctly a
5 or 6 element delta loop fixed on EU and a 4 square.  Diversity was turned
on and I had 3501 from the start Of the contest until my eyes slammed shut
around 0600 local the next morning as the 80m op never showed up.  I have
never heard anything like it, it was more akin to 20 meters. Big runs and
EU was loud. My only issue with the  K3's was what I considered  to be the
small knobs. I prefer big knobs on women and radios.  I attributed The high
performance on 80 to be the antennas not the radios. Who knew??  I was so
beat after 12 or 13 hours on 80 that  I slept  until about 3 In the
afternoon. I thought I might get on 160M the second night at NR4M but W4DR
and w4PRO were there. Compared to them  I cant even spell  "160",  I just
watched how the pro's do it. I never did get On 15 or 20. Visitor
accommodations at NR4M  with a pool table and a quiet place to sleep were
like a 5 star hotel compared to the Spartan conditions in the  bunkroom at
W3PP.As dallas would say, I hope you didn't come all this way to sleep.  the
diversity in the K3's was amazing.  I never gave any thought to the 1000 MP
until you mentioned the issues noted below. I will probably never look at my
MP-1000 the same again.  As you may know "CHAMPIONS ADJUST". I realize that
there are now other radios that are better than the MP-1000and I have been
very interested in K3ZO's reports on the Yaesu 5000, even though Fred
doesn't need filters, I do. I think there is at least One yaesu 5000 at
W3LPL  I would definitely want 250 and 500 cycle filters on any radio I
purchase. I  Have not done any multi op since NR4M except for SS CW when my
brother NW9X comes up here for SS.  I was thinking my 160m issues were
antenna related but now that's in question.  I will definitely  try to bring
my MP-1000 to a location with known good Antennas and a K3. It's still true
that no matter how much power you have,  if you can't hear em,  you can't
work em.

I read all your posts and recently discussed your FCP with Lar K7SV who
recently built one. 

Thanks  Guy I appreciate you  taking the time to bring me up to date.

73

Chet N4FX


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Guy
Olinger K2AV
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2018 11:32 PM
To: chet moore
Cc: TopBand List
Subject: Re: Topband: Inverted L improvement question - Part 2

Hi Chet,

Before we start, a disclaimer: I still have my MP, maybe I'm a radio
hoarder. I do have a 75A3 and a Johnson Ranger and Courier and an FT 101ZD.
The only long used radios I don't still have are my SB300 and SB400, and I
wish I hadn't sold those. So my MP bashing is technical and proven, and I
still love my MP enough to keep it. I hope its feeli

Re: Topband: Inverted L improvement question - Part 2

[chet moore]

Todd,

Thanks for sharing. I've been following your post.  I too wondered about
sharing the radial field like you did.  My situation is somewhat similar in
that I feed a 90 foot tower which has a c31 at 95  feet and a two el xm 240
40m beam  at 75 feet beneath it on a gatethe antennas should give me
some top loading but it has never been modeled.  Shunt wire presently comes
down from 70 feet about 3 feet out from the tower to the base of my tower.
The Tower(AB-105) Is guyed at 40 and 70 feet, guys are broken up with
insulators. I have tried to find the resonant  freq of the tower  and at one
time or another I have moved that tap from 40 feet to up 50  60 70 feet in 2
foot increments. (that's a lot of climbing)and  never found the sweet spot
if there is one. I saw your post and  Like you I  wondered what  would
Happen if I  ran an inverted L up to 90 feet. (I already had a pulley and
rope up there) and run the tail out to the west since I seem to be "deaf" to
the west and north west (and really everywhere) and would share The same
radial field which  has 2 radials that I was able to stretch out to 100 feet
(in a very crooked line)  and a couple of others  that are 60 feet  and 56
others  of various lengths from 20 to 50 feet. The correct word is probably
not "share" as only one of the antennas would be hooked to the xmtr at a
time.  My salt water swimming pool Is about 8 feet from the base of the
tower. Not sure if the pool helps or hurts in any way. In the fall, once I
cover the pool,I run out 30 radials of varying lengths  which I have to roll
back up again come spring when we uncover the pool.   I remotely tune the
tower with a motorized vacuum variable capacitor to tune  the tower for
minimum swr.  I've only played with this since I saw your post.  5 years ago
Before trying the shunt fed tower,  I put up the inverted L with 4 buried
radials mainly to be able get some points for PVRC in the DX contests. 160m
has a way of hooking you in to trying to do just a little more than the bare
minimum  I then added 6 more radials,  then  a few more and then a few more
after that. I noticed that things got better Up until I had 20 radials or so
and then adding more radials didn't  seem to help or hurt anything .
Bandwidth went down at first and then like it says in the on4un book,
leveled out. The real problem for me is RX. I have never heard a KL7 on 160
even though guys locally  3 or 4 miles away hear and work KL7's in every
arrl  or cq 160 contest. (I'm located 7 miles off the water at Virginia
beach)  I have managed 1 KH6 QSO (could not hear either of the two I saw
spotted last night in the stew)  Things are up and down here. Stuff I don't
expect to hear. I sometimes get,  but  other easier stuff I never hear.
Example,  when I was able to work the ET3 on 160 a while back. I also got
Yemen when K1ZM  was in sanaa,  I got bouvet last time out,  the last 2
FT-8's but still no KL7.  Never expected to work the VP6 or whatever the
latest big dxpedition  was a few weeks ago , the one that  had to leave
early due to weather. Vp6di Ducie? Xmas? Either one would have been new one
for me on 160. I just knew I wouldn't hear them so I did not check for
themUntil the night before they left,   I turned on the rig, I was
on 40 m and  saw them spotted. Figured ok I'll waste my time and Clicked on
the spot.  I could actually hear them on my 40 m beam,   switched to the
shunt fed tower and zip, nada, nothing. Back to the 40m beam and they were
still there.  Went down to feed point and found that  the dogs toy was
entangled in the shunt feed and in trying to remove it, the dog had ripped
the feed wire off  of the  top of the vacuum variable with his toy still
attached.  It was pouring rain so since this expedition was gonna be there 2
more days I figured I'd fix it at first light or as soon as the rain stopped
and be ready that night. I was  WRONG. The weather apparently got so bad
they left early so I never got to call them.

In the Stew I tried out a couple of quick swap outs between the inverted L
and the tower on both G4AMT & KV4FZ last night  in the stew when both were
running em and I could not discern any  difference on receive between the L
and the tower. I worked both of them with 100 watts. I called N6RK on both
antennas. On the inverted L I got an imi, and on the shunt fed tower no
response. Lots of qrm.  n6rk was not loud but he was the ONLY w6 I heard.
N2IC was loud from new mexico all night.

When I try to call cq I can hear partial calls and I know there are stations
calling  me. I know I was called by an  EU4, 9A2 and a TF2 last night but I
couldn't pull any of them thru.

The shunt fed tower seems to radiate  pretty well on xmit but  on rx its an
alligator.  I definitely get out better than I hear but its  still pretty
discouraging  to call CQ and  to look at dx summit  and
see.spots like these from the europeans 


N4FX   ?.
N4FX  no receiver
N4fx  don't waste your time 

Re: Topband: new style PL-259's with screw on back INSTRUCTIONS

[chet moore]

For  some newer members,  6 or 7 years back, K3LR on his web site has what I 
think is a better way to put on PL-259's,  he provides step by step instruction 
and color pix. The first one you do will  take 15 to 20 minutes, after that you 
cut that time in half.  He says he has never had one fail.  I haven’t either. 
Since his
Company also sells the compressions fittings, it would be nice to hear how he 
compares the two methods.

Chet  N4FX

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Clive GM3POI
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 11:27 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: new style PL-259's with screw on back INSTRUCTIONS

Reflector problems this is what I wanted to say.  73 Clive GM3POI

 

From: Clive GM3POI [mailto:cl...@gm3poi.com] 
Sent: 05 December 2018 16:17
To: 'MU 4CX250B'
Subject: RE: Topband: new style PL-259's with screw on back INSTRUCTIONS

 

Well here the RF connection Brass / silver plated have been bought by the dozen 
over the years. The Compression type whilst coming in handy in poor weather is 
not the plug of choice here and I’ve tried them for many years. On the 
compression plugs you should also drill out the centre conductor hole otherwise 
a typical RG213 type cable will not get to the tip of the plug to be soldered. 
Designed by an idiot I suspect.  73 Clive GM3POI  

 

From: MU 4CX250B [mailto:4cx2...@miamioh.edu] 
Sent: 05 December 2018 16:04
To: Clive GM3POI
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: new style PL-259's with screw on back INSTRUCTIONS

 

Finally, after years of frustration with several types of PL259 connectors, 
I've settled on the new crimp/solder type from DX Engineering. They're strong, 
reliable, and easy to install in minutes while dangling from a tower. Soldering 
is only for the center conductor. 

The downsides are that they're a bit pricey, and require a crimp connector.  
Over the past year, I've bought about fifty of them and am gradually swapping 
them into all my indoor and outdoor cables. Here's a link: 
https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-pl259cs8x-12

 

BTW, I'm also phasing out all the LMR-400 (both the ordinary and superflex 
types) in my station  and going back to plain old RG213. The modest attenuation 
improvement of LMR400 over the earlier RG--type cables is negligible at HF 
frequencies, and the Al foil and awkward-size center conductor of the LMR 
cables have been, for me, nothing but trouble. 

73,

Jim W8ZR

 

Sent from my iPhone


On Dec 5, 2018, at 8:27 AM, Clive GM3POI  wrote:

I have been using those plugs for at least 10 years. They come in useful if
you have to put on a plug in cold weather and or high winds because no braid
soldering is needed. However at the back of equipment they are more
temperamental than regular 259's  because the threads tend to be difficult.
YMMV
73 Clive GM3POI 

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of MICHAEL
ST ANGELO
Sent: 05 December 2018 14:49
To: Pete Michaelis - N8TR; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: new style PL-259's with screw on back INSTRUCTIONS

These are compression connectors similar to the N type compression
connector.

I use them as well as crimp type UHF connectors because I don't like the
solder type PL259 connectors for RG-8. RG-58 or LMR-400 type coax.

Pasternack offers a similar type connector. Their data sheet has assembly
instructions. You can use it as a guide.



Mike N2MS




On December 5, 2018 at 12:34 AM Pete Michaelis - N8TR

 wrote:

 

 

EBAY item 192225630585 looks similar to the Multicomp clamp 

connector  discussed on

Towertalk early in 2011.   See:

http://lists.contesting.com/_towertalk/2011-02/msg00214.html

 

73, Pete - N8TR

 

 

 

At 09:45 PM 12/4/2018, terry burge wrote:

 

Hi Gary

Take a look at ebay 'UHF PL259 male clamp Plug lot connector for 

LMR400 RG8 RG213 RG214 Coax cable' from 'superstore_dan'.

Terry

KI7M

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Re: Topband: BOGs in alley under powerlines

[Chet Moore]

Hi Hank, 

what i do here is pretty much what you want to do.  I run mine down the
gutter from my house about 300 feet laying the wire in the gutter. I have
the wire on an electrical cord reel.  It crosses the driveways of 3
neighbors.  I reel it out after dark and reel it back up when done. yes,
cars do and have backed over it and never knew it. to keep the wire in the
gutter, I take my sunday (thickest day of the week) newspapers, put them
back in the plastic protective bags, fill the bag with water which is soaked
up by the newspapers, tie the end of the bag with a bag tie to keep any
water in  and lay the soggy newspaper in the gutter, one on each side of the
driveway to keep the wire low to the ground so it does not snag the
undercarriage of any car coming into or out of their driveway.  A rock or
brick or other type of weighting would likely tip off the owner of the
house. If and When they see a newspaper sort of laying in the gutter, they
just assume that the paper boy missed his target, the insulated wire is only
out after dark and my wire is very dark green, almost black and you really
can't see the wire at night, even the one house closest to the streetlight.
it has worked for about 7 years without anyone noticing. Technically believe
I am laying the wire on city property and not on someones personal property.
No I have not actually researched to see if the homeowner owns any part  of
the gutter. Each night when done, I roll up the wire and then pick up the
newspapers. This is not a particularly busy street. I have about 180
countries on 160. unfortunately, I can only do this aiming 75 degrees or so
due to privacy fences going in other directions. I have never heard  a JA or
KL7 on 160, even though I hear other nearby stations here working KL7 in the
CQ and arrl DX contests. In  the cq and arrl 160 tests I click on every
pacific spot but so far no joy. there is a house 80 feet behind me so I am
deaf to the west. the power lines are on poles 30 feet above the gutter
directly  above the bog. I shunt feed my 95 foot tower which has about 90
radials.
I have used the bog in the gutter both terminated and unterminated and see
not any difference. the gutters are cement, the road surface is asphalt so
the bog is laying on the cement for the whole run.I don't remember the full
call but there is I think a W7/K7 (k7ca/ce ??), possibly  portable CE3 in
chile who runs low power. to work him I ran out the bog to the south intead
of 70 degrees. He was 539 on the bog and I could just barely tell he was
there listening on the shunt fed tower.Laying my BOG in the back yard away
from the power lines is not an option.  my bog is a just about twice as long
as yours is projected to be but it will cost you practically nothing to put
the bog out and in your case it looks like it can be left in place.  The
price is right, so  I'd say.Go for it !

73 

Chet N4FX

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd -
N9LB
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 3:59 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: BOGs in alley under powerlines

Assuming the utilities are all in the back yards, I'd suggest you look at
running a BOG wire along the edge of the sidewalk in the front yards.

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of HankP
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 2:51 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: BOGs in alley under powerlines

Is there any point in trying a 160 foot or so BOG down an alley if there are
powerlines and phone lines and cable TV 15 to 30 feet above ??? (Along with
Centurylink VDSL2 carriers across band 2 to 3 dB above my -100 dBm invvee
noise. - at least they are not -75 dBm anymore after two days and two people
and 75 days of hassle ) 

Probably not but maybe I am missing something - alley runs east - west . 

Anybody ever tried this ? 

Hank K7HP
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Re: Topband: New 160M high performance receiving antenna at W3LPL

[Chet moore]

When I was still at K4CG they had one there.  Unfortunately K4CG did not
have access to it.  They had one on Adak when I was at KL7AIZ.  They
Were frequently found at Naval Security Group Activities  in other
locations.  Not sure if this technology is still being used today.

Chet N4FX

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 2:28 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: New 160M high performance receiving antenna at W3LPL

Much much closer to home for us Pacific NW'ers:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=40+43+24+n,+141+19+44+ehl=enll=40.72308,141
.328892spn=0.003313,0.006968sll=40.723876,141.329155sspn=0.026507,0.05574
7t=kz=18

It looks to be operational and is still gated and guarded and has cars
parked at the building.


Chuck


On 2/4/2013 10:53 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:
 Hi Lee,

 You can save yourself lots of engineering effort if you simply make
yourself a copy of this one:


https://maps.google.com/maps?q=40+43+24+n,+141+19+44+ehl=enll=40.72308,141
.328892spn=0.003313,0.006968sll=40.723876,141.329155sspn=0.026507,0.05574
7t=kz=18

 My former employer (then Sylvania, now General Dynamics Advanced
Information Systems) installed it in 1966 at Misawa Air Base, Japan.  I
believe its still exists, but its probably no longer in use due to technical
obsolesence, high maintenance costs and unavailability of spare parts.  An
identical array installed at Elmendorf Air Base, Alaska is also still in
existence as far as I know.  Maybe you can purchase one of them!

 Many copies of the original 40 element German Wullenwever array were
built all over USSR shortly after World War II, some may still exist.  Among
other things, they tracked the 10 and 20 MHz Sputnik beacons that some of us
recall.

 73
 Frank
 W3LPL

  Original message 
 Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 10:13:55 -0800
 From: Lee K7TJR k7...@msn.com
 Subject: New 160M high performance receiving antenna at W3LPL
 To: Robert McGwier rwmcgw...@gmail.com, Frank Donovan
donov...@starpower.net
 Cc: Topband topband@contesting.com

Hello Bob and all, Yes I agree on the issue of needing the
stable impedance
 from the elements to drive the passive systems. I still have
some questions
 in my mind about the radials and here is why. I have made
many field tests
 where I measured the actual phase and amplitude differences
between two
 receiving elements where one is held constant and parameters
around the
 other were changed such as ground rods, radials, and such.
Both were
 receiving signal from an equidistant transmitted source.
 What I can tell you
 for sure about this is that with a Hi-Z system the phase and
amplitude shifts
 become quite unstable when radials are used. I do not know
this to be a
 fact with loaded elements but I have seen evidence of  some
received
 signal shift due to the presence of the radials to the
element. This test really
 opened my eyes about received signals and what objects might
affect
 them. I have plans to buy the NEC4 engine and do some more
field tests
 using another technology that should give me more answers. It
is these
 minute details that prevent us from making these RX antennas
even smaller.
  There is no doubt that the state of the art is advancing in
receiving antenas
 with all the work that is and has gone on. I am confident
that what we are
 presently doing is not perfect and I expect the state of the
art still has a ways
 to go. There have been many man years of work by many people.
I hesitate
 to name calls but a few notables are K6SE, W7IUV, W8JI, K9AY,
W3LPL,
 W5ZN, W1FV, NX4D, N4IS, AA7J, K1LT and many many others that
I
 apologize for not having the space here or personal memory at
the moment
 to mention. There are more man years of work to do.
I still covet the 96 element Wullenwever antenna invented
around 1940!
Lee  K7TJR

The issue is getting sufficient ground radials so that
changing soil conditions: dry season, wet season, etc have
minimal impact on the impedance which is the easiest
measurement of the changing conditions.  Joel and I did
measurements several times and when he was near drought he
found he had to add radials to stabilize the performance.
 Once done, his system has been stable since.
Great news on both of you successfully deploying.
Bob
N4HY


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Re: Topband: It is not so much propagation

[Chet moore]

Bill,

I truly wish that was the case.  I think you may be a bit out of touch
On how many serious ops have beverages.  I can't stick one on my 1/4 acre
lot.  You probably have it right that if you don't have room for beverages
you probably can't be a big gun but lack of beverages doesn't reduce my my
seriousness or enthusiasm for top band.  That being said,  if you will send
a certified check down here for 400 k I promise that I will  move to  a 2 -
3 acre lot and put up a 8 beverages to prove exactly how serious I am.
Bank wire in lieu of a certified check is ok. 

73

Chet N4FX

-Original Message-
From: topband-boun...@contesting.com [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com]
On Behalf Of K4OWR
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 11:00 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: It is not so much propagation

 When I switch to my beverage antenna the noise pretty much goes to
almost nothing.
Don't most serious operators have oneor more???
BILL K4OWR


On 3/19/2012 10:22 AM, N7DF wrote:
   During the summer the storm static is the main obstacle to top band
operation here   40 over nine crashes every 30 seconds kind of drown out
everything, QRP or QRO
 In fact the fish beacons still come through around sunrise indicating that
propagation paths are open but SWLing them is not that big a thrill
 Maybe we could get some low power 160 meter beacons operating through the
summer to see what is really happening
 It would be interesting to get more Field Day stations on 160.  Maybe our
crowd can get 160 included in local club plans
 a 30 foot high mast with top loading is not to hard to put together and
can get out pretty well with two or three readials
 it might even get some new people interested in top band
 ___
 UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK


___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

___
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

Re: Topband: TB season

[Chet moore]

For those who take their antennas down, the season is definitely over

73

N4FX

-Original Message-
From: topband-boun...@contesting.com [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com]
On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 11:29 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: TB season

On 3/15/2012 5:01 PM, Jon Zaimes AA1K wrote:
 I've worked JA's in April and August. Europe and the Mideast can be 
 worked all summer long, as well as VK/ZL and much of the southern 
 hemisphere -- where it's their winter. So the season can be what you 
 make of it.

YES!  How would North America and EU work VK/ZL or South America if the guys
in the lower hemisphere had our parochial attitude about the 
season?   It's another self-fulfilling prophesy -- if you're not on the 
air, you're not going work anyone who is.

73, Jim K9YC
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UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

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UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK