Re: Topband: JT65 on 160

[Wes Stewart]

Yes.

On 3/21/2017 9:54 AM, Pete Rimmel N8PR wrote:

I keep reading about all the WSPR and other low power modes where one person 
was heard all around the world.  Well, maybe on a given night that can happen.  
-23 on JT65 is 10 dB below the threshold where a CW signal can be copied by 
ear...  and I see many signals on JT65/JT9 at that level into my excellent 
receive antennas – EVERY night...

HOWEVER, when a DXpedition goes to a rare location, they do not get to pick 
their location that has S-0 or S-1 noise level, and they do not get to complain 
to the local Power company to get the power line noise within 5 miles 
eliminated before they operate.

They rarely if ever  have 1000 foot beverages in 8 directions, or K9AY loops in 
4 directions or a Waller Flag at 120 feet up in the air.  Therefore, they limit 
themselves as to what they can hear.

THEREFORE, we must use more than 20 watts to be heard, if no one else is 
calling, and more than 100 watts if there is a pile up, to stand out from the 
crowd.

We cannot pick the one night in 30 that has the best propagation to that 
location, and hope that the DXpedition will be on at OUR sunrise/sunset to get 
the gray line boost.

Why is this debate continuing?  We must go with the conditions dealt to us on a 
given night/morning, when the DX does happen to appear.

We must hope that we can hear them, and hope that they can hear us no matter 
what power we are running... and they are running.

The propagation gods are fickle at best.

All of you who are low power proponents, PLEASE  keep running 20 watts... that 
way I can work them with my 1.5 KW and won’t have you QRMing me.  And I will be 
quickly out of your way !

And for those of you who suggest the FCC says don’t use that much power, let me 
run 1.5 KW and make the contact and then while others wait, I will ask the DX 
if I should decrease power to say 73 to him.

Happy DXing what ever your flavor...

73,  PeteR  N8PR
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Topband: JT65 on 160

[Pete Rimmel N8PR]

I keep reading about all the WSPR and other low power modes where one person 
was heard all around the world.  Well, maybe on a given night that can happen.  
-23 on JT65 is 10 dB below the threshold where a CW signal can be copied by 
ear...  and I see many signals on JT65/JT9 at that level into my excellent 
receive antennas – EVERY night...

HOWEVER, when a DXpedition goes to a rare location, they do not get to pick 
their location that has S-0 or S-1 noise level, and they do not get to complain 
to the local Power company to get the power line noise within 5 miles 
eliminated before they operate.  

They rarely if ever  have 1000 foot beverages in 8 directions, or K9AY loops in 
4 directions or a Waller Flag at 120 feet up in the air.  Therefore, they limit 
themselves as to what they can hear.  

THEREFORE, we must use more than 20 watts to be heard, if no one else is 
calling, and more than 100 watts if there is a pile up, to stand out from the 
crowd.

We cannot pick the one night in 30 that has the best propagation to that 
location, and hope that the DXpedition will be on at OUR sunrise/sunset to get 
the gray line boost.  

Why is this debate continuing?  We must go with the conditions dealt to us on a 
given night/morning, when the DX does happen to appear. 

We must hope that we can hear them, and hope that they can hear us no matter 
what power we are running... and they are running.

The propagation gods are fickle at best.  

All of you who are low power proponents, PLEASE  keep running 20 watts... that 
way I can work them with my 1.5 KW and won’t have you QRMing me.  And I will be 
quickly out of your way !

And for those of you who suggest the FCC says don’t use that much power, let me 
run 1.5 KW and make the contact and then while others wait, I will ask the DX 
if I should decrease power to say 73 to him. 

Happy DXing what ever your flavor...

73,  PeteR  N8PR
_
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Re: Topband: JT65 on 160

[Aravind Balasubramanian]

I too am using something similar, if not less effective,  a Butternut HF 2v
with a homebrew TBR160 coil installed on a pushup mast 25 feet from terrace
(2nd floor) level, with 2 radials for 80 and 40m squeezed into my tiny 1400
sq feet terrace perimeter sloping around. Max power I have is 100W. I have
worked 34 and confirmed 28. Missed working 9n7ei :-( but worked s21. Infact
have hearing s21zee s7 now.

Living right in the heart of Indias 4th largest city - Chennai formerly
Madras, noise is a big challenge. Elevating the vertical and the radials
made a 2 S point reduction in noise level from S 9 to S 7 between 1 am and
6 am.

Missed working Stewperry last year. as the alarm couldnt wake me up. Was
too tired after finishing my first Olympic Triathlon on that saturday.
Managed to work a few on CQ 160m. I was focussing my Night AIR time on 80
to reach my 80m DXCC and was on 160m only when there were no new DXCC
entities in 80m as reported by pskreporter/hamspots.net

Built a waller flag but since its in my radial field of the vertical it was
not very effective. Have to convince my neighbour to let me install it in
his terrace.

One JA wanted VU2 very badly and we were trying for a QSO for days together
on JT65. JAs can TX digital only above 1900 Khz and VU 160m allocation is
1820 - 1860. The butternut's 2:1 SWR bandwidth is just + - 4 Khz so Rxing
above 1900 was a challenge inspite of using my IC7300's 2 pre amps. Then we
decided to try CW and completed the QSO in 15 minutes. All we needed was on
propagation wave peak :-)

Moral of the story CW is more effective than JT65/JT9 on top band if you
are CW capable. The only problem is the noise wears you out quickly. Max 1
- 2 hours.

Max distance I was heard was VO1MP but we couldnt complete the QSO as he
was running barefoot and so couldnt break thru my noise floor. Almost all
who worked me were running QRO and had excellent RX antenna (mostly
beverages)

Currently contemplating building a Noise canceller as listed in
http://www.g8jnj.net/rfnoisecancellation.htm Apparently the MFJ Noise
canceller and DX Engineering Noise cancellers are all extensions of this
design. Perhaps its a bit late as summer is already hear.

Any one wants skeds please email me.

73 de Aravind vu2abs

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 10:37 PM, Mike DeChristopher <
mfdechristop...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> One of the locals here is very into the JT -modes, almost exclusively
> on topband. He uses 100W into a single Inv-L with two 1/4-wave radials
> and nothing for RX. I think he's about halfway to 160 DXCC in a
> calendar year and reports working everything he hears barefoot -- but
> again, no RX antenna, so insert appropriately-sized grain of salt.
>
> As he is a college student, he is in a similar situation to the
> rapidly growing number of hams with very little space and a rented QTH
> or other restrictions. It is refreshing to see that particular
> community excited about 160 and actively innovating -- even if it
> creates a [hopefully temporary] gator or two along the way.
>
> The JT modes, especially WSPR, actually prove useful for us contesters
> as well. In the weeks leading up to the event, they can give very
> accurate and station-specific data similar to the RBN, but
> occasionally in greater numbers on 160. I used WSPR for that purpose
> ahead of most majors, but those digital modes make my old MP's smell
> funny these days.
>
> 73
> Mike N1TA
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 11:27 PM, Wes Stewart 
> wrote:
> > The QRP guys will be miffed.
> >
> >
> > On 3/17/2017 12:48 PM, James Wolf wrote:
> >>
> >> If I find someone on 160 in zone 23 that uses JT65/9 can someone give
> me a
> >> reason we should not use 1000 watts?
> >>
> >> Jim - KR9U
> >>
> >
> > _
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Re: Topband: JT65 on 160

[Mike DeChristopher]

Hi all,

One of the locals here is very into the JT -modes, almost exclusively
on topband. He uses 100W into a single Inv-L with two 1/4-wave radials
and nothing for RX. I think he's about halfway to 160 DXCC in a
calendar year and reports working everything he hears barefoot -- but
again, no RX antenna, so insert appropriately-sized grain of salt.

As he is a college student, he is in a similar situation to the
rapidly growing number of hams with very little space and a rented QTH
or other restrictions. It is refreshing to see that particular
community excited about 160 and actively innovating -- even if it
creates a [hopefully temporary] gator or two along the way.

The JT modes, especially WSPR, actually prove useful for us contesters
as well. In the weeks leading up to the event, they can give very
accurate and station-specific data similar to the RBN, but
occasionally in greater numbers on 160. I used WSPR for that purpose
ahead of most majors, but those digital modes make my old MP's smell
funny these days.

73
Mike N1TA



On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 11:27 PM, Wes Stewart  wrote:
> The QRP guys will be miffed.
>
>
> On 3/17/2017 12:48 PM, James Wolf wrote:
>>
>> If I find someone on 160 in zone 23 that uses JT65/9 can someone give me a
>> reason we should not use 1000 watts?
>>
>> Jim - KR9U
>>
>
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Re: Topband: JT65 on 160

[Wes Stewart]

The QRP guys will be miffed.

On 3/17/2017 12:48 PM, James Wolf wrote:

If I find someone on 160 in zone 23 that uses JT65/9 can someone give me a
reason we should not use 1000 watts?

Jim - KR9U



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Re: Topband: JT65 on 160

[JC]

BD0AAI  is zone 23 and likes JT modes and cw.

JC
N4IS

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of James
Wolf
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 3:49 PM
To: 'List-Topband' <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: JT65 on 160

If I find someone on 160 in zone 23 that uses JT65/9 can someone give me a
reason we should not use 1000 watts?

Jim - KR9U

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Re: Topband: JT65 on 160

[James Wolf]

If I find someone on 160 in zone 23 that uses JT65/9 can someone give me a
reason we should not use 1000 watts?

Jim - KR9U

_
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Re: Topband: JT65 on 160

[Mike Waters]

"Overloading everyone's RX front end" is not correct.

The problem is that these narrow digital modes are received using the full
bandwith of the SSB filter.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Mar 17, 2017 1:19 PM, "Wes Stewart"  wrote:

Do you guys use lousy receivers for these modes?  Why would the mode affect
the abilities of a receiver?

Wes  N7WS

On 3/17/2017 11:06 AM, Jim Jim wrote:

> ...if you use high power you are going to start overloading everyone RX
> front end and you will be the only one able to use the band.
>

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Re: Topband: JT65 on 160

[Wes Stewart]

Do you guys use lousy receivers for these modes?  Why would the mode affect the 
abilities of a receiver?


Wes  N7WS

On 3/17/2017 11:06 AM, Jim Jim wrote:

...if you use high power you are going to start overloading everyone RX front 
end and you will be the only one able to use the band.


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Re: Topband: JT65 on 160

[Jorge Diez - CX6VM]

Hello Jim and others for the replies

Just getting information to do well and not disturb anyone.

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W



2017-03-17 15:06 GMT-03:00 Jim Jim :

> Jorge,
> I use only 35-50w on TB.  A few years ago I worked VKs and Zls  using only
> 35watts then went down the band a bit and worked one of the same stations
> on CW only moments later BUT it took over 900w to do it. That is just over
> 14db advantage over CW.  Two other things to remember 1. JT65 is a mode
> that operates at 100% duty cycle. and 2. if you use high power you are
> going to start overloading everyone RX front end and you will be the only
> one able to use the band.  I have seen one station on 40m ignored because
> he was using high power when it was unnecessary.
>
> GL
>
> Jim
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>



-- 
73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W
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Topband: JT65 on 160

[Jim Jim]

Jorge,
I use only 35-50w on TB.  A few years ago I worked VKs and Zls  using only 
35watts then went down the band a bit and worked one of the same stations on CW 
only moments later BUT it took over 900w to do it. That is just over 14db 
advantage over CW.  Two other things to remember 1. JT65 is a mode that 
operates at 100% duty cycle. and 2. if you use high power you are going to 
start overloading everyone RX front end and you will be the only one able to 
use the band.  I have seen one station on 40m ignored because he was using high 
power when it was unnecessary.

GL 

Jim
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