Wasn't somebody producing a Waller Flag kit awhile back? Can't seem to
find info on it now...
TNX,
Steve K0XP
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Search for...
BOG and K2AV
...in the searchable archives at
http://www.contesting.com/_topband, and you'll wind a wealth of information
about BOGs that is unavailable anywhere else! :-)
The latest version of ON4UN's *Low Band DXing* ARRL book contains some BOG
info also, IIRC.
73, Mike
Stan,
I have very little experience with them, however given your high noise level
and small(ish?) lot (not sure how large it is), would a few BOG's be a
better option I wonder?
Looking forward to seeing you work this one out.
GL !
Mike VE9AA
Mike, Coreen & Corey
Keswick
t;
To: n...@n4is.com, topband@contesting.com
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 8:27:43 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: Waller Flag
Thanks, JC. Based on what you said and what I know about the location, I
think I probably have enough noise that I shouldn't have to worry about how
much gain the preamp might hav
Topband: Waller Flag
Stan Stockton wa5rtg at gmail.com
Sat Dec 15 14:15:25 EST 2018
I am curious to know if anyone on here has scaled a Waller Flag to a
smaller antenna and had any success with whatever might be available for
preamps to bring the gain up enough to start to hear band noise
possible, the input noise to your
preamp would be less than -185 dBm.
Jim - KR9U
-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Stan
Stockton
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 2:15 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: Waller Flag
I am
Without my Hi-Z 8 and the Waller Flag (on a 40 Ft boom at 95 ft) I would not
hear squat on 160.
I listen in diversity receive with the K3 and use only the Hi-Z 8 with the
IC-7610. However, the IC-7610 is EXTREMELY QUIET!!
73,
John, W4NU
Atlanta
K4JAG 1959 to 1998
Sent from my iPhone
> On
:28 PM
To: n...@n4is.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Waller Flag
Thanks, JC. Based on what you said and what I know about the location, I think
I probably have enough noise that I shouldn't have to worry about how much gain
the preamp might have relative to the negative gain
. Higher
> is always better.
>
> Check vertical W8VVW (8m) WF or WX4D ( 10m) original WF.
>
> Regards
> JC
> N4IS
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband On Behalf Of Stan Stockton
> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 2:15 PM
> To: topband@contestin
Thanks, Rick. I think you are fortunate to have a low noise level where
you could actually use your TX Antenna.
My situation is that if I tried to listen on my transmit antenna I would
only work the very strongest of signals. Typically the noise moves the
meter to about 20-25 over S9 if I
rom: Topband On Behalf Of Stan Stockton
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 2:15 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: Waller Flag
I am curious to know if anyone on here has scaled a Waller Flag to a smaller
antenna and had any success with whatever might be available for preamps to
br
General response, not specific to the Waller Flag:
For a number of good reasons, you should not expect
a NF below 3 dB for any practical preamp. OTOH,
virtually all radios have an internal switchable preamp.
Let's say your radio is really pedestrian, and the
internal preamp has 10 dB NF.
I am curious to know if anyone on here has scaled a Waller Flag to a
smaller antenna and had any success with whatever might be available for
preamps to bring the gain up enough to start to hear band noise.
At my location on Cayman Brac I could probably get by with a 20 foot boom
but not much
sting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Waller Flag construction and performance
Ken,
I am thinking along the lines as Gregg. Try disconnecting the feedline
at the antenna and compare noise levels.
Do you have a choke on both ends of the feedline ?
Bob
K6UJ
On 4/26/16 6:00 PM, Ken K6MR wrote:
18:16
To: topband@contesting.com<mailto:topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Topband: Waller Flag construction and performance
Ken, did you remember the 180 degree phase inversion needed on the Waller
flag.
It will act like a very large signal level single loop if not.
Lee K7TJR
_
sting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Waller Flag construction and performance
Ken:
No directivity and noisier than the TX vertical. Perhaps you should look at
these as two separate observations. Try disconnecting the feedline at the
antenna. What is the noise level with the antenna disconnected and
From: Lee STRAHAN<mailto:k7...@msn.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 18:16
To: topband@contesting.com<mailto:topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Topband: Waller Flag construction and performance
Ken, did you remember the 180 degree phase inversion needed on the Waller
flag.
It w
Ken, did you remember the 180 degree phase inversion needed on the Waller
flag.
It will act like a very large signal level single loop if not.
Lee K7TJR
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
uesday, April 26, 2016 17:34
To: topband@contesting.com<mailto:topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Waller Flag construction and performance
Ken:
No directivity and noisier than the TX vertical. Perhaps you should look at
these as two separate observations. Try disconnecting
Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ken K6MR
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2016 6:11 PM
To: Clive GM3POI <gm3p...@btinternet.com>; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Waller Flag construction and performance
No it does not and that’s a good poin
Let’s start here and see how it goes. If someone complains we’ll take it off
line. Nothing like a public discussion to bring out the best ideas. I changed
the subject line so the discussion will make sense.
The 160 transmit vertical is about 800’ away. There is an 80’ tower with
various
I would just like to understand what Tom is saying. I almost think he had
noise figure confused with noise temperature at one point.
Correction to my previous e-mail, first sentence in second paragraph.
should have said "When I studied preamps and NF ~30 years ago, I thought
the NF of the first
On a totally unrelated note, I cascaded two preamps to get 40 dB of gain
about 30 years ago. They were identical circuits, both using MGF-1202 GaAs
FETs.
The input was a Zener diode noise generator. The second preamp fed a 3dB
splitter which fed two inputs of a low-loss passive nulling circuit I
I must be missing something.
The noise in a 50 ohm resistor is -174 dbm per root Hz at ambient temp.
Lets take 100Hz bandwidth for the receiver and the noise becomes -154 dbm or
.0045 uVolts
Lets add a PERFECT amplifier of 40 db. The noise output of the 40 db amp is
then -114 dbm or 0.446
inal Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Lee K7TJR
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2015 4:01 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: Waller Flag
I must be missing something.
The noise in a 50 ohm resistor is -174 dbm per root Hz at ambient temp.
Let
On 9/8/2015 1:01 PM, Lee K7TJR wrote:
To me a signal of 79 uVolts is something over S-9 on a receiver. Would a
simple dipole or inverted Vee antenna with essentially no gain produce a
whopping signal from the same source. Of course it would pick up noise as
well but I would think it would not
Pardon me for chiming in on this Waller flag discussion as I am probably the
least qualified person on Topband to discuss technical issues.
But, I do a lot of Trial and Error-ing and use some of the wisdom shared here.
Plus I am a true Ham O Holic and always want to improve my ability to work
After putting my conclusions here and a 2 1/2 hour power outage I had an aha
moment and found I did not account for 40 db properly.
The dipole without a preamp in the same location is just a few db higher
than the Waller with preamp and would not produce the signals I was
thinking of.
Lee
Tom, I'm afraid I disagree but agree with some of that, I am using a
43dB
gain preamp since 2010 with not a single failure yet, but I understand
your
point. It is so delicate to implement that most of fellow that try it
fail.
Even aluminum enclosure does not shield it enough, 40 dB gain is
Above and beyond all the dialogue, JC is making these antennas work.
Time after time he is working stations that only a few with large
antenna systems copy.
73
Bruce-K1FZ
It seems unlikely most compact antennas are being used in locations so quiet
they need 30 dB gain, or .6 dB
There seems to be something that I'm missing in this preamp NF discussion.
When I studied preamps and NF ~30 years ago, I thought the NF of the system
of the first active device was the all-important thing. Whatever losses
were between the antenna feedpoint and the preamp input (coax, connectors,
There is no question in my mind that he is, Bruce.
I would just like to understand what Tom is saying. I almost think he had
noise figure confused with noise temperature at one point.
Correction to my previous e-mail, first sentence in second paragraph.
should have said "When I studied preamps
And if you look at US Patent 2,247,743, it
appears that Harold Beverage conceived of a horizontal Flag around 1941.
best wishes,
Nick
At 21:52 06-09-15, you wrote:
Bruce wrote on Sept 6. Snip < Check it out
http://www.qsl.net/k4fk/presentations/WF-receiver-antennas-SFDXAs.pdf
> Bruce, ref
I find them at hamfests, typically for a buck apiece. I've also seen
suggestions that they can be found at thrift shops.
73, Jim K9YC
On Mon,9/7/2015 5:08 AM, James Rodenkirch wrote:
Any suggestions, Jim, on where to find small, inexpensive linear
supplies to replace the wall warts?
> "I've replaced all of the SMPS blocks that came in my door with vintage
linear supplies (and some are vintage linear supplies float-charging
sealed lead acid batteries. 73, Jim K9YC"
Same here. For wall-mounted power supplies, Jameco has an excellent
selection of regulated and
Of Arthur
Delibert
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2015 1:40 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: Waller Flag Question
The on-line materials about Waller Flags says that a modest size WF would
need about 40 dB of gain to boost the signal to a usable level. One of the
postings says that cas
>>
At -140 dBm and 250 Hz noise bandwidth, the system would require a 1 dB
noise figure front end. That's about 35 deg K noise temperature.
>>>
Tom is as usual 100% right, the RX system gain should be near 1 dB, it means
the preamp at 1.8 MHz should be .5 dB NF the input filter and the feed
, September 06, 2015 5:53 PM
To: k...@myfairpoint.net; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Waller Flag Question
Bruce wrote on Sept 6.
Snip <
Check it out
http://www.qsl.net/k4fk/presentations/WF-receiver-antennas-SFDXAs.pdf >
Bruce, ref to the link above there is a gap in the &q
Thank you, JC:
I don't know where this coming from ,but the gain you need for a VWF
modest
size is 20db for vertical polarization and for horizontal HWF you need
40db
on 160m, on 80m divide this by 2, you need only 20 dB and on 40m 10 dB a
NORTON preamp is enough. All situations you need a
"" A similar observation was made 20 years ago by Brian Beezley, K6STI, in a
QST article titled "A Receiving Antenna that Rejects Local Noise"
(September, 1995, page 33): I've been looking around for something that
might work better than my present antenna, and I see good reports about the
Guys,
Gary, KD9SV, has developed a very good 40 db preamp just for the Waller Flag
that covers both 160 and 80M bands.
73, Dennis W0JX
--- On Sat, 9/5/15, kd9sv <kd...@comcast.net> wrote:
> From: kd9sv <kd...@comcast.net>
> Subject: RE: Topband: Waller Flag
> T
Maybe his secret is a preamp cooled with liquid helium! ;-)
Seriously, there are preamps operating at 70 degrees F (for example) that
have less than a 1 dB NF at VHF. They are usually mounted at the feedpoint
of a high gain array, because of feedline loss.
Today, I have the type of terrible cold
On Sun,9/6/2015 4:31 PM, Tom W8JI wrote:
Thanks for the insights. I have no doubt the theory is correct. My
sense, though, is that in the denser suburbs, we live in a "fog" of
local radio noise, generated by the scores of digital and other
devices that surround us.
The sad thing is that
Bruce wrote on Sept 6.
Snip <
Check it out
http://www.qsl.net/k4fk/presentations/WF-receiver-antennas-SFDXAs.pdf >
Bruce, ref to the link above there is a gap in the "History of the Flag
Antenna" The earliest fef. to the Terminate loop I have found is in Keen’s
Wireless Direction Finding
Thanks for the insights. I have no doubt the theory is correct. My sense,
though, is that in the denser suburbs, we live in a "fog" of local radio
noise, generated by the scores of digital and other devices that surround
us. A similar observation was made 20 years ago by Brian Beezley,
It can be done. JC, N4IS has been doing it and has the DX contacts that
most can not hear.. The proof as they say "is in the pudding" He uses
balanced twisted pair feed lines with pre-amps, and other noise
reduction techniques..
Check it out
The on-line materials about Waller Flags says that a modest size WF would need
about 40 dB of gain to boost the signal to a usable level. One of the postings
says that cascading two preamps of 20 dB each seems to add extra noise, and
they talk about developmental work being done on a single
Art Delibert wrote on Set. 6
snip would need about 40 dB of gain to boost the signal to a usable level. One
of the postings says that cascading two preamps of 20 dB each seems to add
extra noise, and they talk about developmental work being done on a single
preamp of 40 dB.
Is there now
The on-line materials about Waller Flags says that a modest size WF would
need about 40 dB of gain to boost the signal to a usable level. One of
the postings says that cascading two preamps of 20 dB each seems to add
extra noise, and they talk about developmental work being done on a single
The Waller Flag is a very good TB RX antenna. Most of the time it is installed
in the vertical plane as it was originally developed and is made rotatable. It
can be as low as 20 feet off the ground although some are put on taller towers.
N4IS has also developed a horizontal version, basically
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