Re: Topband: and KDKA
In recent years many Canadian fulltime AM stations have been shut down on AM and moved over to FM. However they remain notified which is a semitechnical term meaning the Canadian government tells other countries such as the US, which are signatory to treaties, that those facilties still exist. The New Brunswick 700 went off the air several years ago. I think the Alberta is off the air as well. Another source of this kind of information is the AM Pattern Book, published by the National Radio Club. They just published a new edition this year. Bob k2euh Richard Fry r...@adams.net wrote: A frequency search for 700 kHz shows some high power night time licenses in AB and NB. I don't remember if those licenses existed before the downgrade the Clear Channel concept, which I think happened sometime in the 70s or early 80s. Here is a link to a map showing all AM stations on 700 kHz, as of now. _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: and KDKA
What some broadcaster won't do to get a signal their market. There is an AM station out on pilings in Biscayne Bay or at least there once was. I don't know how it could have survive Hurricane Andrew if it did. But the station and four tower array was put there to avoid interference to a protected Cuban clear frequency and still be able to blanket Miami. The transmitter room was in a sealed container with positive air pressure to keep out salt air. Engineers would arrive each day my boat to make the require on site inspection. I think the power was brought out from shore with an undersea armored HVAC three phase cable. Remember at the time broadcasting was big business or as some in the industry used to call it a license to steal. But today with all the proliferation of FM and digital services there isn't much left for AM except News, Sports, Talk, and Information on the market price of pork bellies. Today anyone with a computer and an internet connection can be an instant broadcaster and be heard world wide. Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ On 9/16/2013 7:13 PM, Richard Fry wrote: With respect to U.S. AM broadcast stations, Bob k2euh wrote: Another source of this kind of information is the AM Pattern Book, published by the National Radio Club. They just published a new edition this year. The Check it Out link on the NRC website shows U.S. AM station locations and patterns for 560 kHz. However, the physical location they show for the transmit site of WIND (560 kHz) appears to be in Illinois (see clip below), rather than at the location shown by the FCC for the WIND array -- which is in Indiana, SE of the intersection of I-94 and IN Hwy 912. The FCC coordinates for WIND are 41° 33' 54.00 N Latitude, 87° 25' 11.00 W Longitude (NAD 27). Didn't check for any other errors. http://s13.postimg.org/pcpbguj2b/WIND.gif RF _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: and KDKA
On 9/12/2013 11:48 PM, Jim Brown wrote: On 9/12/2013 4:06 PM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote: the nation's station which was WLW for sure Another interesting point -- WLW was a 50kW clear channel station, and one of a handful that had their frequency to themselves at night for all of North America, which is why the Commission might have considered licensing them for 500kW. As I recall, the other might have been WOAI, on 1200 kHz. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Hi Jim: For Years I have believed that WSM, 650, was in that category. Goodness knows, We can't miss the GRAND OLE OPRY 73, Mike, W5UC _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: and KDKA
In the 60's I used to do a jazz show on on a 1570 Khz radio daytimer station in Golden Valley, MN which is now KYCR. I remember a station which claimed to be in Del Rio, Texas but actually had a super high power AM station located across the border in Mexico.. I think the call sign was XERF but the studios were located in Del Rio which was later claimed to be a illegal cross boarder operation by the FCC. The frequency 1570 was listed as a Mexico Clear Channel which had an awesome skip signal that would just before sunset wipe out the show I was doing in as close as 5 miles away. I think this was also the station used by the infamous Dr. Brinkley to sell snake oil in the 30's and also the home of Wolfman Jack...I posted a piece from Wiki on this In the 1930s in Villa Acuña https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Acu%C3%B1a, now Ciudad Acuña, the border blaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_blaster XERF-AM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XERF-AM made its home. The radio station was built by Dr. John R. Brinkley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_R._Brinkley from Kansas. Dr. Brinkley claimed to be able to cure male virility deficiency with goat gland transplants. Dr. Brinkley wanted to promote his male enhancement operations and used the radio station for that purpose. Because of the purpose of radio XER and what it promoted the station was closed in 1939 by the Mexican government. In 1947 the government of Mexico licensed XER-AM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XER-AM, the super-power border blaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_blaster run by Ramon D. Bosquez on 100 kW. They used the old XERA facilities and sold its airtime to American Evangelists broadcasting in English to the United States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States. In 1959, Ramon D. Bosquez and Arturo Gonzalez formed the Inter-American Radio Advertising, Inc. in Del Rio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Rio,_Texas, Texas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas. They ran the broadcasting in Del Rio while the license rested in the hands of Mexican officials. They boosted the power to 250 kW. This super station was where famous disc jockey Wolfman Jack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfman_Jack between 1962 and 1964 became known. XERF-AM is currently under control of the Instituto Mexicano de la Radio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instituto_Mexicano_de_la_Radio and plays Spanish-language programs and music. Any corrections on what I remember about XERF would be appreciated. I also remember some old timers in Europe would listen on 1570 to see if the propagation on topband would permit contacts to the Midwest. Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ On 9/15/2013 9:13 AM, Mike(W5UC) Kathy (K5MWH) wrote: On 9/12/2013 11:48 PM, Jim Brown wrote: On 9/12/2013 4:06 PM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote: the nation's station which was WLW for sure Another interesting point -- WLW was a 50kW clear channel station, and one of a handful that had their frequency to themselves at night for all of North America, which is why the Commission might have considered licensing them for 500kW. As I recall, the other might have been WOAI, on 1200 kHz. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Hi Jim: For Years I have believed that WSM, 650, was in that category. Goodness knows, We can't miss the GRAND OLE OPRY 73, Mike, W5UC _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: and KDKA
WLW shared the frequency with other stations, I believe one in Canada. I'm pretty sure that is why they had to use a directional pattern at night. Throughout a long history, WLW shared (and time shared) channels. The tower is a diamond shaped half wave, which makes it electrically shorter than a half wave. Another interesting point -- WLW was a 50kW clear channel station, and one of a handful that had their frequency to themselves at night for all of North America, which is why the Commission might have considered licensing them for 500kW. As I recall, the other might have been WOAI, on 1200 kHz. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Hi Jim: For Years I have believed that WSM, 650, was in that category. Goodness knows, We can't miss the GRAND OLE OPRY 73, Mike, W5UC _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: and KDKA
On 9/15/2013 13 13, Mike(W5UC) Kathy (K5MWH) wrote: Hi Jim: For Years I have believed that WSM, 650, was in that category. Goodness knows, We can't miss the GRAND OLE OPRY 73, Mike, W5UC Regarding these stations, Wikipedia is your friend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear-channel_station - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3408 / Virus Database: 3222/6667 - Release Date: 09/15/13 _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: and KDKA
Hello Herb and all, In the early 70 I was on one of my many trips to DL land. My friend DL2VP, now SK, was an engineer at DW-TV and German Radio on 1584kHz. The final was 12kV at 80 Amps. 960kW input. The vacuum variables were bigger than trash cans. The power-supply took up a room about 12 X 15ft. They had yellow lines to stay within. I guess we could have put it on 160... 73 Price W0RI Thanks, Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ amps On 9/12/2013 5:05 PM, Donna Halper wrote: I have heard a number of similar stories, some of which seem to be legends or perhaps based on some kernel of truth that got exaggerated. I don't know for sure about the one Herb mentioned, because I find no reporting on it in any of the sources I've checked. We do know that in 1938, KDKA was one of 12 stations that applied to be a super-power station, like WLW, which had temporarily been allowed to use 500 kw. But KDKA withdrew its request in mid-1938, and settled for operating at 50,000 watts. In fact, as of 1940, the Pittsburgh AM station was one of the handful of stations broadcasting with 50,000 w. In mid-1942, Westinghouse advertisements still stressed the 50,000 watt transmitters in use by KDKA and other stations in the group. The only record I can find of high-powered broadcasting is on the _short-waves_-- requests for super-power were received in 1941, and the FCC permitted about 12 stations to utilize this high power. And in 1943, it was widely reported that high-powered shortwave stations were beaming pro-American news over to Europe, and Westinghouse stations were among the high-powered broadcasters doing this-- but there was no mention of KDKA in the list of shortwave stations involved; WBOS in Boston was one that did receive some press for this activity. That doesn't mean the story is false-- it just means that all of the sources to which I have access don't mention it: I even looked for reports by well-known radio columnists who generally wrote about such things. Perhaps someone with access to legal databases (which I do not have) can check to see if a lawsuit was actually filed, or if this is the stuff of legend. And just as an FYI, we also know there was a high-powered station with 250,000 watts as far back as 1925-- the Tropical Radio Telegraph Company put it on the air in Hialeah, Florida. _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: and KDKA
On 9/12/2013 4:06 PM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote: It might well have been WLW instead of KDKA and according the the story I recall it had something to do with the nation's station which was WLW for sure. I think that for national defense in 1932 it was granted a 500,000 watt power level. I worked at WLWT while an EE student, and our senior class got a great tour of both WLW AM and the Crosley-run VOA site a few miles away. The 500 kW TX was still there (late 1963 or early 1964) and they fired it up into a dummy load for us (cooled by circulating water to a big pool outside). I think I remember that it was an experimental license, rarely if ever on the air. Some research might prove my memory wrong. :) 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: and KDKA
On 9/12/2013 4:06 PM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote: the nation's station which was WLW for sure Another interesting point -- WLW was a 50kW clear channel station, and one of a handful that had their frequency to themselves at night for all of North America, which is why the Commission might have considered licensing them for 500kW. As I recall, the other might have been WOAI, on 1200 kHz. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: and KDKA
De Grant Saviers, KZ1W... Pieces of the 1939 tower were sold to benefit local charities. Yes, I have one of those. They were sold to benefit Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh. Pictures and background can be found at: http://antiqueradio.org/kdka01.htm 73, Cliff K3LL/6 -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Grant Saviers Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 3:27 PM To: he...@vitelcom.net Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: and KDKA I haven't heard the farmer story, but in the 60's lived 1000yds from the KDKA radio tower in Allison Park, PA. That area is rough up and down small hills, not much farming. KDKA/Westinghouse did experiment with 400kw short wave at the old Saxonburg site. We didn't have any RF problems, but I was QRT at that home. My uncle George Saviers(SK), last call W2NPR, was an RF engineer at KDKA in the 1930's. KDKA moved the transmitter to a site in Saxonburg and began construction of a 718' Franklin antenna, center fed, 135deg per side. That tower collapsed under construction due to the failure of a guy end potting (molten zinc poured around flayed out wires into a reverse taper cavity according to George). This tower was rebuilt by American Bridge on the same site, but poor coverage caused them to dismantle it and move it in 1939 to Allison Park, north of Pittsburgh, east of Rt 8. In 1994, after 55 years service, the tower was replaced with a new 718' radiator fed as 90deg bottom and 180deg top. Pieces of the 1939 tower were sold to benefit local charities. I collect KDKA radio stuff, so let me know if you have some looking for a new home. My dad was also a briefly KDKA employee on the studio side pre WWII and the two brothers roomed with Dave Garroway who started his broadcasting career at KDKA. Grant Saviers KZ1W On 9/10/2013 12:32 PM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote: There is an old story about KDKA's antenna system that was told to be a long time ago. During WWII KDKA along with a frew other stations was allowed to operate with 250,000 watts to the antenna system. A farmer across from the KDKA's arrays was plagued by RF on everything including hearing the station in his kitchen sink. A friend of his was a ham and came up with the idea of tuning all the lamps in the barn and house into a tuned circuit to resonate and provide a means of lighting for free. It work so well that the farmer would brag about it at a local tavern and was overheard by one of KDKA's engineers who told the management who called the FCC Field offices. So the dispute insued that the farmer claimed the radiation was on his land without permission and he had rights to it no matter what. The whole matter ended up in the DC Circuit with KDKA claiming it could not comply with its required radiation pattern because the farmer was distorting their pattern. The court came up with an unusual conclusion that there was merit to both arguments. But since the station was required to have a precise RF level at a measuring point the court offer the farmer the option of leaving his lights on all the time or completely turning the lights off permanently. Since the lights were constantly flickering with modulation he chose the later solution if KDKA agreed to pay for his lawyer. I would be interested if anyone else has heard this story before and if there is any veracity to it. Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ On 9/10/2013 1:34 PM, Bill Cromwell wrote: Hi Ed, The engineer at WTIC responded. That station does not have a Franklin antenna but has series fed halfwave during the day and switches in a second one at night, phased to change the radiation pattern. He also told me that their 'sister station', KDKA in Pittsburgh, does use a Franklin antenna. Some members near Pittsburgh may want to roll by for a peek at it. 73, Bill KU8H On 09/06/2013 04:13 PM, Edwin Karl wrote: There are several interesting articles if you Google Franklin Antenna they are mechanically BIG and require feeding ingenuity (hams are known for this feature ...) but are stacked verticals, note- phase the top element to avoid cancellation. If memory serves me right WTIC in Hartford phased two of these puppies, but it's been a long time ... 73! ed k0kl _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: and KDKA
I haven't heard the farmer story, but in the 60's lived 1000yds from the KDKA radio tower in Allison Park, PA. That area is rough up and down small hills, not much farming. KDKA/Westinghouse did experiment with 400kw short wave at the old Saxonburg site. We didn't have any RF problems, but I was QRT at that home. My uncle George Saviers(SK), last call W2NPR, was an RF engineer at KDKA in the 1930's. KDKA moved the transmitter to a site in Saxonburg and began construction of a 718' Franklin antenna, center fed, 135deg per side. That tower collapsed under construction due to the failure of a guy end potting (molten zinc poured around flayed out wires into a reverse taper cavity according to George). This tower was rebuilt by American Bridge on the same site, but poor coverage caused them to dismantle it and move it in 1939 to Allison Park, north of Pittsburgh, east of Rt 8. In 1994, after 55 years service, the tower was replaced with a new 718' radiator fed as 90deg bottom and 180deg top. Pieces of the 1939 tower were sold to benefit local charities. I collect KDKA radio stuff, so let me know if you have some looking for a new home. My dad was also a briefly KDKA employee on the studio side pre WWII and the two brothers roomed with Dave Garroway who started his broadcasting career at KDKA. Grant Saviers KZ1W On 9/10/2013 12:32 PM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote: There is an old story about KDKA's antenna system that was told to be a long time ago. During WWII KDKA along with a frew other stations was allowed to operate with 250,000 watts to the antenna system. A farmer across from the KDKA's arrays was plagued by RF on everything including hearing the station in his kitchen sink. A friend of his was a ham and came up with the idea of tuning all the lamps in the barn and house into a tuned circuit to resonate and provide a means of lighting for free. It work so well that the farmer would brag about it at a local tavern and was overheard by one of KDKA's engineers who told the management who called the FCC Field offices. So the dispute insued that the farmer claimed the radiation was on his land without permission and he had rights to it no matter what. The whole matter ended up in the DC Circuit with KDKA claiming it could not comply with its required radiation pattern because the farmer was distorting their pattern. The court came up with an unusual conclusion that there was merit to both arguments. But since the station was required to have a precise RF level at a measuring point the court offer the farmer the option of leaving his lights on all the time or completely turning the lights off permanently. Since the lights were constantly flickering with modulation he chose the later solution if KDKA agreed to pay for his lawyer. I would be interested if anyone else has heard this story before and if there is any veracity to it. Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ On 9/10/2013 1:34 PM, Bill Cromwell wrote: Hi Ed, The engineer at WTIC responded. That station does not have a Franklin antenna but has series fed halfwave during the day and switches in a second one at night, phased to change the radiation pattern. He also told me that their 'sister station', KDKA in Pittsburgh, does use a Franklin antenna. Some members near Pittsburgh may want to roll by for a peek at it. 73, Bill KU8H On 09/06/2013 04:13 PM, Edwin Karl wrote: There are several interesting articles if you Google Franklin Antenna they are mechanically BIG and require feeding ingenuity (hams are known for this feature ...) but are stacked verticals, note- phase the top element to avoid cancellation. If memory serves me right WTIC in Hartford phased two of these puppies, but it's been a long time ... 73! ed k0kl _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: and KDKA
My uncle W2NPR George Saviers(SK) was an RF engineer at KDKA radio in the 1930's when the original Saxonburg, PA 718' tower collapsed due to a guy failure while under construction in 1936. As he told the story the guy cable ends were flayed out and potted with molten zinc into a reverse tapered internally end fitting. One not correctly potted failed. A second tower of the same design was built at the Saxonburg site in 1937. It was a symmetrical center fed antenna, 135deg per leg. In 1939 the antenna was dismantled and moved for better coverage to Allison Park, PA. That tower was 1000yds from my back yard. The moved 718' Franklin was replaced in 1994 due to age (55 years) and tower parts were sold to benefit charities. The present 718' Franklin is an unsymmetrical design, 90deg base, 180deg top sections. See http://www.fybush.com/sites/2010/site-100326.html I collect older KDKA radio memorabilia and would appreciate any. I guess is possible there is some substance to the farmer story, but the Allison Park WWII tower location north of Pittsburgh is pretty rough up and down small hill country, not much farming. I've not heard it before. At the Saxonburg site KDKA/Westinghouse experimented with MW 400kw transmissions. Grant Saviers KZ1W On 9/10/2013 12:32 PM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote: There is an old story about KDKA's antenna system that was told to be a long time ago. During WWII KDKA along with a frew other stations was allowed to operate with 250,000 watts to the antenna system. A farmer across from the KDKA's arrays was plagued by RF on everything including hearing the station in his kitchen sink. A friend of his was a ham and came up with the idea of tuning all the lamps in the barn and house into a tuned circuit to resonate and provide a means of lighting for free. It work so well that the farmer would brag about it at a local tavern and was overheard by one of KDKA's engineers who told the management who called the FCC Field offices. So the dispute insued that the farmer claimed the radiation was on his land without permission and he had rights to it no matter what. The whole matter ended up in the DC Circuit with KDKA claiming it could not comply with its required radiation pattern because the farmer was distorting their pattern. The court came up with an unusual conclusion that there was merit to both arguments. But since the station was required to have a precise RF level at a measuring point the court offer the farmer the option of leaving his lights on all the time or completely turning the lights off permanently. Since the lights were constantly flickering with modulation he chose the later solution if KDKA agreed to pay for his lawyer. I would be interested if anyone else has heard this story before and if there is any veracity to it. Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ On 9/10/2013 1:34 PM, Bill Cromwell wrote: Hi Ed, The engineer at WTIC responded. That station does not have a Franklin antenna but has series fed halfwave during the day and switches in a second one at night, phased to change the radiation pattern. He also told me that their 'sister station', KDKA in Pittsburgh, does use a Franklin antenna. Some members near Pittsburgh may want to roll by for a peek at it. 73, Bill KU8H On 09/06/2013 04:13 PM, Edwin Karl wrote: There are several interesting articles if you Google Franklin Antenna they are mechanically BIG and require feeding ingenuity (hams are known for this feature ...) but are stacked verticals, note- phase the top element to avoid cancellation. If memory serves me right WTIC in Hartford phased two of these puppies, but it's been a long time ... 73! ed k0kl _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
