Re: Topband: best headphones for cw

[Björn SM0MDG]

Chuck,

I use Bose QC25 active noise cancelling headsets. They are very comfortable to 
wear for hours in a contest, much more comfortable than any “DX headset” I have 
tried. They are better mechanical quality than their predecessor the QC-15 and 
they fold to a smaller package for travelling. When the battery drains they 
keep passing audio to the ear phones. For SSB I use the ModMic boom microphone 
which attaches to the headphones using an adhesive magnet 
(http://sunsdr.eu/product/modmic/ ). It has a 
high quality electret capsule that with the proper EQ settings can mimic a HC4 
capsule for SSB contests. Active noise cancel headsets are a little expensive 
but well worth it, especially if you do longer sessions with phones on your 
head. Passive noise cancelling headphones normally put lots of pressure to your 
ears.

73 de Björn,
SM0MDG
SE0X


> On 17 Jun 2016, at 22:07, Charles Yahrling  > wrote:
> 
> Looking for tips for headphone types for K3, CW only, so need 1/4 inch
> stereo jack.
> 
> Object is to isolate from ambient noise in the shack, such as relay clatter
> from 1K-FA amp when keying.
> 
> Been using a cheap set that came with Yamaha keyboard - I like how they
> attenuate hi freq band noise, but
> tend to overdrive at high audio gain levels. Main problem is relay noise,
> which throws off my keying at times.
> 
> tnx in advance
> 
> 73, chuck AB1VL
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 
> 

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Re: Topband: best headphones for cw

[Barry N1EU]

I own or have tried them all.  For high level of isolation plus
non-fatiguing full fidelity sound, go for the Beyerdynamic DT770M.  They
are significantly more isolating than the other phones mentioned.

Barry N1EU

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 4:07 PM, Charles Yahrling 
wrote:

> Looking for tips for headphone types for K3, CW only, so need 1/4 inch
> stereo jack.
>
> Object is to isolate from ambient noise in the shack, such as relay clatter
> from 1K-FA amp when keying.
>
> Been using a cheap set that came with Yamaha keyboard - I like how they
> attenuate hi freq band noise, but
> tend to overdrive at high audio gain levels. Main problem is relay noise,
> which throws off my keying at times.
>
> tnx in advance
>
> 73, chuck AB1VL
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
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Re: Topband: best headphones for cw

[Mark]

On 19-6-2016 4:24, Paul Christensen wrote:
After checking this evening, apparently Elecraft doesn't post 
schematics of their amplifier. It would be an interesting exercise 
comparing notes.


I suggest you contact Elecraft directly.
We broke down two KPA500's during the 2016 CQWW 160 on its PTT line, 
probably due to our own failing PTT setup.

E-mailed Elecraft for repair instructions; promptly received all schematics.
Both KPA500's were repaired within days and are successfully used in 
other contest already.


73 Mark, PA5MW
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Re: Topband: best headphones for cw

[Paul Christensen]

>"The KPA does have diodes, but I don't know why the KPA diodes seem to make it 
>and others don't. Maybe not stressed as bad switching into an open load, which 
>might be the real culprit that folks don't want to admit to."

The KPA500 has substantially less field operating time compared with the Alpha 
86/89/87A series.   After checking this evening, apparently Elecraft doesn't 
post schematics of their amplifier.  It would be an interesting exercise 
comparing notes.   If anyone has a set, please send to me by PM.

Late-generation Alpha 87A amps have ~ 150VDC higher Rx bias  voltage to better 
withstand high VSWR conditions.  In later QSK-5 devices, Ameritron doubled-up 
on the number of Rx diodes and placed 1M equalizing resistors across them.  
That's a reasonable way to restrict PIN diode voltage without spending a lot of 
money on higher-priced parts -- although Rx loss may be slightly higher.  

Possibly Elecraft mitigates lightning-induced voltages with a spark gap or 
other similar device, but without a schematic, it's only speculation.   Given a 
choice between vacuum relays, or dealing with potential PIN diode issues, I'll 
still take a PIN structure every time.  OTOH, I respect folks who prefer not 
opening their amps, and so a  T/R relay is best for them.

Guy made several excellent points concerning T/R relay mounting and the need to 
completely shock-mount the relay, mounting material, and isolate all relay 
wiring.  Thin silicone HV wire works well; even better if short loops are used 
to add further isolation.

>"Anyway, back to the original post, I will recommend the Sony MDR-7506. "

Bose QC25 and Sony MDR-NC7 used here.  Both are a NC type.  The Sony headphones 
work almost as well and at a fraction of the Bose price.  

Paul, W9AC

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Re: Topband: Best Headphones for CW

[Jim Murray via Topband]

Ditto on the Sony MDR-7506.  Have been using them for quite a while.   Not sure 
why they were my choice but generally I do quite a bit of research before 
buying.Regards,Jim/k2hn
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Re: Topband: best headphones for cw

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

I have experience with various Alphas including my current 8410. Their
relays *are* loud. Noise cancelling headsets can take that way down.

As to going to diodes to get rid of relay clang, that is another matter.
Though some say they never have had those diodes go bad in their Alpha,
others seem to blow them every two, three, four years. I had a QSK box
using those diodes from Ameritron that worked very well until a strike in
the neighbor's back yard trees took it out along with my fancy house
thermostats for the heat pumps and a couple of control boards in one of the
compressor units. I am still mystified by whatever path the zap got to the
QSK board (I've heard all the did-you-do-this or that rejoinders back when
it happened, tons of it).

I replaced diodes and three months later they got zapped again. It's still
on the shelf

Other than that, the QSK unit worked wonderfully. As do Alpha's diode
switched amps, until they get zapped.

The word I have (subject to verification on this subject) is that diodes
that can actually stand up to zappies, military grade stuff, are
prohibitively expensive for the cheep-skate ham market. Think of it, if
they hadn't been, Alpha would have gone to them years ago.

As to the clang, there's an easy answer to that. Sonic conduction paths for
the relay noise. In my 8410 they have the relay in a rubber mount. BUT they
have the relay leads soldered to the supporting board with stiff wire. And
the design flexible weave wire on the switched end behaves like stiff wire.
This would work if the solder didn't wick into the weave and turn it into
equivalent of stiff #10 for the purposes of sound conduction. And also this
little board is hard bolted to the chassis, which transmits the sound to
the chassis and case, which behave just like the sounding board in a
guitar, violin or grand piano.

It is easy enough to run flexible wires to the winding terminals of one of
these relays and key it. It barely makes any noise at all. The same relay
mounted to a glob of RTV on a perfboard with flexi wire to all the
connections in my 3-1000Z cannot be heard at all outside the amp with any
room noise. Perfectly quiet in the room you can hear quiet clicks when it
is keyed. Same exact relay as 8410.

But when I listen to my Sony MDR-7506 studio headphones, and keep the
volume up a little bit, which I would do anyway, the clang, and the noisy
through-the-wall air conditioner are significantly muted to the level of
the band noise, and who cares.

These days I am more concerned with wearing out the relay in the 8410, and
even in contests use the WinKey chip in my microHam u2R to keep a precise
CW speed related letter pause hang in CW operation.

HLO[fast drop]JOE[fast drop]HW[fast drop]R[fast drop]TNGS?[fast drop   ...
That's 5 relay closings opposed to 44. So that should have relay last nine
times longer than pure QSK. If I start sending CQ and someone starts
replying to my prior CQ at that point, I hear him between the "CQ" and the
"TEST".

When I really want actual QSK I use the K3/KPA500 whose integration and QSK
is flawless, particularly post K3 synthesizer upgrades.

The KPA does have diodes, but I don't know why the KPA diodes seem to make
it and others don't. Maybe not stressed as bad switching into an open load,
which might be the real culprit that folks don't want to admit to.

Anyway, back to the original post, I will recommend the Sony MDR-7506. They
double as an amazing "ear piece" for my iPhone music. Used with the K3 dual
RX in diversity, the headphone clarity allows for some pretty good
between-the-ears discrimination of weak signals in the muck.

73, Guy K2AV

On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 4:19 PM,  wrote:

> Chuck -
>
> I’ve been very pleased with Heil ProSets for both CW and SSB.
>
> If you can, borrow the recommended models to see how you like them.
>
> What’s “best” is always going to be subjective just because there are so
> many variables.
>
> Communications frequency response vs full range.
> Over the ear or on the ear cushions.
> Built in microphone boom; dynamic or electret element.
> Mic frequency response.
> Cord as a Y vs on one side or wireless.
> Overall comfort and aural fatigue.
> Price.
> Etc.
>
>
> The question begs a second question: Amplifier QSK relay noise.
>
> My reference standard for a legal limit amp is the Alpha 87A with PIN
> diodes. The diodes are expensive vs vacuum relays that are popular with
> manufacturers. The Alpha 9500 relays could wake up the dead wearing
> earphones. A deal breaker for some.
>
> Expert Linears has a mod to quiet the stock SPE 2K-FA relays which is
> supposed to be very effective although I don’t have any first hand
> knowledge. The SPE 1.3-FA review in July 2016 says that you might want to
> use headphones when operating QSK. No mention is made of any kind of
> quieting mod having been done.
>
> The Elecraft KPA-500 amp uses inexpensive switching diodes for T/R
> switching and is as seamlessly quiet as the Alpha 87A. 

Re: Topband: best headphones for cw

[wb6rse1]

Chuck -

I’ve been very pleased with Heil ProSets for both CW and SSB.

If you can, borrow the recommended models to see how you like them.

What’s “best” is always going to be subjective just because there are so many 
variables.

Communications frequency response vs full range.
Over the ear or on the ear cushions.
Built in microphone boom; dynamic or electret element.
Mic frequency response.
Cord as a Y vs on one side or wireless.
Overall comfort and aural fatigue.
Price.
Etc.


The question begs a second question: Amplifier QSK relay noise.

My reference standard for a legal limit amp is the Alpha 87A with PIN diodes. 
The diodes are expensive vs vacuum relays that are popular with manufacturers. 
The Alpha 9500 relays could wake up the dead wearing earphones. A deal breaker 
for some.

Expert Linears has a mod to quiet the stock SPE 2K-FA relays which is supposed 
to be very effective although I don’t have any first hand knowledge. The SPE 
1.3-FA review in July 2016 says that you might want to use headphones when 
operating QSK. No mention is made of any kind of quieting mod having been done.

The Elecraft KPA-500 amp uses inexpensive switching diodes for T/R switching 
and is as seamlessly quiet as the Alpha 87A. No doubt their legal limit amp 
that never came to market used the same design.

I’d like to see manufacturers use solid state diodes vs relays as T/R switches. 
Elecraft has shown this to be a commercially viable design.

73 - Steve WB6RSE



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Re: Topband: best headphones for cw

[JC]

Some headphone can isolate noise very well. I like the Sennheiser HD280 , it
provide 36db isolation, but the best one I have is the MC5 from Etymotic ear
plug that can reach 42 db isolation. 

73'
JC
N4IS


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Re: Topband: best headphones for cw

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

I have a pair of Sony noise cancelling phones.
Once you try NC phones, you will never go
back to conventional ones.  Now if we could
just get someone to make a set with a microphone.
But you asked about CW, so that doesn't matter.
There is an issue with RF getting into them,
so they might not be good for multi op stations.
For single op, your sidetone might sound weird.
Obviously, that is highly variable and you have
to just try it and see.  YMMV.

Rick N6RK

On 6/17/2016 3:55 PM, n0...@juno.com wrote:

I like my QC-15 noise cancelling headphones!  Worth
the money and they DO cancel-out fan noise from the
K3 and my KW amp.  I don't have any clacking
relays when I key, so I can't comment on that.  I use
an adapter for the 1/8" plug on the QC's.

73,
Charlie, N0TT

On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 16:07:33 -0400 Charles Yahrling
 writes:

Looking for tips for headphone types for K3, CW only, so need 1/4
inch
stereo jack.

Object is to isolate from ambient noise in the shack, such as relay
clatter
from 1K-FA amp when keying.

Been using a cheap set that came with Yamaha keyboard - I like how
they
attenuate hi freq band noise, but
tend to overdrive at high audio gain levels. Main problem is relay
noise,
which throws off my keying at times.

tnx in advance

73, chuck AB1VL
_
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Re: Topband: best headphones for cw

[n0tt1]

I like my QC-15 noise cancelling headphones!  Worth
the money and they DO cancel-out fan noise from the
K3 and my KW amp.  I don't have any clacking
relays when I key, so I can't comment on that.  I use 
an adapter for the 1/8" plug on the QC's.
 
73,
Charlie, N0TT

On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 16:07:33 -0400 Charles Yahrling
 writes:
> Looking for tips for headphone types for K3, CW only, so need 1/4 
> inch
> stereo jack.
> 
> Object is to isolate from ambient noise in the shack, such as relay 
> clatter
> from 1K-FA amp when keying.
> 
> Been using a cheap set that came with Yamaha keyboard - I like how 
> they
> attenuate hi freq band noise, but
> tend to overdrive at high audio gain levels. Main problem is relay 
> noise,
> which throws off my keying at times.
> 
> tnx in advance
> 
> 73, chuck AB1VL
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 

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Re: Topband: best headphones for cw

[HAROLD SMITH JR]

Hi Chuck, I am using a pair of Koss KO.727s headphones. They work very nice 
with my K3 and my Yaesu FT920 and FT1000. I have been using them for years and 
like them very well. I see that the Koss KO.727b is listed on eBay. 73Price 
 W0RI

  From: Charles Yahrling <cfytech2...@gmail.com>
 To: Topband@contesting.com 
 Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 3:07 PM
 Subject: Topband: best headphones for cw
   
Looking for tips for headphone types for K3, CW only, so need 1/4 inch
stereo jack.

Object is to isolate from ambient noise in the shack, such as relay clatter
from 1K-FA amp when keying.

Been using a cheap set that came with Yamaha keyboard - I like how they
attenuate hi freq band noise, but
tend to overdrive at high audio gain levels. Main problem is relay noise,
which throws off my keying at times.

tnx in advance

73, chuck AB1VL
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


  
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Topband: best headphones for cw

[Charles Yahrling]

Looking for tips for headphone types for K3, CW only, so need 1/4 inch
stereo jack.

Object is to isolate from ambient noise in the shack, such as relay clatter
from 1K-FA amp when keying.

Been using a cheap set that came with Yamaha keyboard - I like how they
attenuate hi freq band noise, but
tend to overdrive at high audio gain levels. Main problem is relay noise,
which throws off my keying at times.

tnx in advance

73, chuck AB1VL
_
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