One word of caution.
Don't put the radials too far under the surface. 2, 3, 4, or 5 inches down is
too deep! Remember that you will be cooking the soil ( introducing losses )
between the radial wires and the surface.
Try to keep the radial wires an inch or less below the surface.
That is
A few inches is not very deep. The depth issues don't come into play
until they are a meter or more down. On the lower end of the medium
wave broadcast band, they can be over a meter deep and work fine.
the issue of depth has been explored because deep radials prevent
copper theft. up at
Lloyd N9LB, you may be correct, but I prefer cited facts and data to
back a statement. So to that end I went back and did some reading.
In addition to the previous paper I cited, see page 10 here:
http://www.crawfordbroadcasting.com/Eng_Files/AM%20Antenna%20Systems.pdf
That's an excellent
I operate my home station every day using a computer in my office from 70
miles
away over the internet.
It's no different than sitting in front of the equipment.
No offense but I suggest you get some more exciting radio equipment to run.
73
Rob
K5UJ
_
Topband Reflector
CW is much more popular since the FCC removed the requirement for the code
I'm calling BS on that one.
Tune across the CW bands at night. Very little activity compared to
30 or 40 years ago.
Of course, I define CW activity as being real CW operating, i.e.
ragchewing, handling
You probably have a current fed vertical so you don't have to worry
very much about the voltage on the cap. Any air variable with around
1/4 inch spacing will be fine. It should not be hard to find
something with the value you need--the tune cap in any ham RF amp will
probably be okay as an
Hi Gary, It would make a nice receiving antenna.
Let's start with a question: Would you put up a loop for 20 meters
that is 6 feet off the ground? Height for horizontal antennas must
always be thought of in terms of _wavelength_. There is only one
effective transmitting antenna for medium
I apologize if I ticked anyone off; I'm just trying to help hams
understand what is needed to get out. This is not directed at any one
person. The topic came up and I have an opinion based on experience
with what works and what doesn't.
If you put up a cloud burner one or more of three things
I should have written "10 dB or more _additional_ noise."
This is a serious problem and is on the radar of the medium wave
broadcast industry as well:
http://www.radioworld.com/article/afcce-symposium-examines-am-broadcast-band-woes/273098
One other typo:
"101 radials, many > 50 feet" should
>What has happened to the topband conditions the last couple of decades?
Two words:
Noise and antennas.
Noise--yes, millions of cheap junk appliances have destroyed
reception. Ever lived next door to a plasma TV?
Antennas--Old hams unable to climb or plow in radials and HOAs =
crappy
There are doorknobs and there are doorknobs. Most hams know this.
But you can't always use just any class 2 RF doorknob, especially in a
critical application like a series connection between the transmitter
final and pi output tank. Why does this matter to the 160 m.
reflector. Because
I completely agree with Don on this. the incessant and utterly
meaningless "599" or "59" because it is programmed in and the operator
too lazy to think about a real signal report makes the minimal value
of contests sink to zero.
They have become nothing more than a vehicle to keep the ham radio
>Neither CQ nor ARRL have
>treated this suggestion seriously, nor come up with any alternative.
>Why not?
Change your complaint to ARRL so it says SSB QRM to digital QSOs and
they'll petition the FCC to give you a subband.
Rob
K5UJ
_
Topband Reflector Archives -
>Amazes me; it takes years to accumulate enough skill and equipment to
>get on the air with a good signal, especially on 160 and then become
>a participant in the opposite mentality of what the sport is all
>about.
You are around 35 years out of date. It was harder to get on 160 in
the days of
Larry N7DD, I am sorry you have decided to make this about me.
In the future, I suggest you make sure you know your subject before commenting.
73
Rob
K5UJ
<<>>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>The issue with noise is growing fast and the only way to improve signal to
>noise ratio is more directivity and when possible filter the man made noise
>with a horizontal loop.
A big complication is that almost everyone's circumstances are
different due to variables such as property size. A
Throw bricks all you want to the end of time but you'll never change
the fact that we tested that antenna and saw its performance first
hand; The preamp was designed by Jack Smith at CliftonLabs..I'm sure
he'll enjoy reading your comments and get a good laugh.
73
Rob
K5UJ
On Fri, Apr 22, 2016
>Q For you folk in the quiet locations, enjoy and protect!
It's a losing battle. You can't stop the imported appliance tsunami
that has been going on for years, or consumers buying them and
bringing them home and using them. You can run around and try, good
luck with that, and invest hours and
Bob,
You didn't mention the model or manufacturer of your tower.The
best installation involves a genuine tapered bottom section of the
type made to accommodate a ceramic base insulator. Usually when you
find one, you also get the mounting hardware and ball gap that
accompanies it. You
One reason for the 120 radial ground system on broadcast sticks often
over-looked is that a large number of radials below grade makes the
system more stable over seasons between dry and wet wx. It may not
matter as much for ham but many radials causes the Z to settle down or
not vary as widely
Paul congratulations. If you find time and energy to do it, I think
we'd all appreciate more information or detail about your early
pre-WW2 homebrew transmitters and receivers. Were the rx heterodynes
or regeneratives? The rigs TNT or TPTG? Construction details and so
on. I ask because not
Since I started the thread I think I should post a follow up on what I
found regarding the NCC-1 phasing network. I apologize for the late
post. The past 24 hours have mostly been spent preparing for and
attending a hamfest.
Firstly the box is working okay; problem solved. The problem was a
update: I just received an email, perhaps a canned response from DX
Engineering telling me they won't give me a schematic. In addition,
rather than work with me to find the problem, they only offer their
repair service. I am very disappointed in this after spending over
$1000 over the past two
Hello,
I am trying to set up a DX Engineering receiving antenna phasing box
but there appears to be something wrong with it and I need to
troubleshoot it. The manual I have does not have a schematic for it.
If anyone has one I'd appreciate getting a copy. I'll cover postage
etc.
Thanks 73
Rob
I just finished speaking with Tim K3LR on the land line with regard to
my problem We had a cordial conversation and I must say in all the
years I have been a ham, I have never had the president of a company
immediately call me to address my concerns and problems with a
product. I am confident
I have no idea what a "FCP" is, but it doesn't matter.
1. An inverted L is an _unbalanced_ antenna. Therefore you don't
need a balun.
2. This means you can feed it with unbalanced line, i.e. coax.
3. You can use an unbalanced matching network such as an L network,
preferably at the feedpoint.
A vacuum variable for L impedance matching is unnecessary. Vacuum
variable capacitors leak eventually. It take a long time for them to
go through their ranges and you have to have the mechanics outside if
you perform remote tuning, to sense or count turns to track when the
v.v. is nearing its
Got a lot of mail about this, teaching me to shut up because I don't
have much free time.
Look folks, as you all know, just about everything with antennas works
in some fashion and there's a sliding scale. It's not all black and
white. With elevated radials, it isn't as if putting radials at 20
I have a 50 foot aluminum mast on my property, guyed at 32 feet and
mounted on a 6" x 6" pressure treated pine post. I put a 15 foot
stinger of aluminum tubing at the top to give it a height of 65 feet
and hung an arm on it at 50 feet that extends out 3 feet. This holds
the vertical part of my
First question: Is it your plasma TV or the property of someone
outside your family?
If it is yours the solution is simple: Haul to target range and blow
holes in it and get a LED TV. Or if you are feeling calm, break it
open and get all the h.v. parts out: electrolytics, heat sinks etc.
then
You can buy a TV for the neighbor and if he cooperates that's fine.
But they don't always cooperate. Sports fans like plasmas because
they have no latency effects in fast live action. And sports live
action when the screen is constantly changing is when they blast out
the most noise.
The screen
My experience has been the complete opposite. May have to do with
which is hard drawn and which is soft.
Rob
K5UJ
On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote:
> I much prefer stranded 18AWG for my "roll out on top of lawn and driveway"
> radials. Stranded is more
> Is there any danger of damaging stranded copper wire by overheating it with
> a torch when soldering or brazing?
You don't use stranded wire for radials.
73
Rob
K5UJ
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Stranded wire is harder to work with. It is harder to get to lay down
flat either on top or in a trench, harder to bolt or solder, is more
expensive, does not take high heat as well.
On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 7:00 AM, Jorge Diez - CX6VM
wrote:
> Rob
>
> why you don't use
You don't put down a lot of radials only for more return current; you
put down a lot also because over time you'll probably lose some of
them to damage or decreased conductivity or some form of disturbance.
If your radial field is uncontrolled, and you can't watch it
constantly, you may wind up
>I would suggest you work on your receive capability first.
>There's nothing more obvious (and embarrassing) then to
>have people calling you that you can't hear.
It doesn't embarrass me at all. Once you have done all you can to
improve your rx within reason, then run all the power you can. If
>FCC regs say you should use the minimum power necessary to establish
>communications.
Um, no. Here's what it actually says:
§97.313 Transmitter power standards.
(a) An amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power
necessary to carry out the desired communications.
Your "desired
Why don't you nail or screw a cross piece of needed length to the top
of each post, and screw a threaded porcelain standoff insulator so it
sticks up on each end. You can find them at hamfests. They are
usually white porcelain cylinders with tapped holes on each end.
Since it is only for
Read this:
http://www.skyandtelescope.com/2017-total-solar-eclipse/how-to-hear-the-solar-eclipse/
Rob
K5UJ
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>It was that article that made me a choke everything
>convert.
If you don't mind wasting money on costly ferrite snap on cores at
around $3 each you can mindlessly put them on everything, but at that
cost they are a last resort for me.
I try before that point:
1. inexpensive audio isolation
> was wondering couple things. If I make a full quarter wave vertical WIRE
>in tree 65 feet tall and see DX Engineering verticals claim 65 foot tall
>but wider bandwidth. What is their secret or just advertisement?
I don't know the DX Eng. product. Usually "wider bandwidth" means
flatter vswr
Unless you like listening to noise you don't use an inverted L on 160
(or 80) for receiving.
Rob
K5UJ
On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 6:58 AM, Arthur Delibert wrote:
> I think that’s right if the only issue is your own transmit signal bouncing
> back from the antenna junction and
If you have enough radials at or below ground you won't need a common
mode choke. You don't say if your inverted L will have an elevated
ground system or not. If the ground system consists of 60 or more
radials you can probably put a matching network out and the feedpoint
and forget about
I discovered my rx antennas worked much better if my tx antenna was
completely disconnected from the station. Most coaxial relays or T/R
switches only break the center conductor. That's not good enough.
There has to be a complete disconnection which I provided by using an
open frame relay
> Thanks for sharing this info.
> Would you please provide more information on the relay model number and how
> it is wired into your system.
I used a P open frame relay 4PDT but a single throw will work.
What's important is that the relay use metal other than steel (or
other magnetic metal) for
I went out into the parking lot at work at 1:15 p.m. Central Time and
tried listening with my car radio to 650, 750 and 1510. I am about 40
miles west of Chicago. With the car omni directional antenna it was a
bust. locals on 750 and QRM from 670. I had my GE Superadio and
Grundig Yachtboy
Posting for Rudi
R.A.
-- Forwarded message --
From: Rudolf Klos
Date: Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 2:58 PM
Subject: Fw: Solar Storm September 6th in real time Video - K5UJ de DK7PE
To: ranchoro...@gmail.com
Hi Rob,
I tried to post this infor regarding the latest
Actually the problem with the alleged QRM and FT8 is more about simply
identifying ham computerized modes of digital transmission and
reception and separating them out from the rest of the noise generated
by poorly filtered appliances, leaky cable TV, power line data
communications etc. I am
> As is, its infuriating listening to high noise
> levels on 160m. If I cant hear on 160m...except for the usual louder
> stations, Im not going to even try TX.
Don't let noise stop you from transmitting.
>Right now, Im trying to evaluate if 160m is even worth
>the effort required. Are the
I respectfully suggest the Baker Is. dxpedition be postponed for a few
years until band condx improve. It makes no sense to me to mount this
costly undertaking to a limited access location when propagation is in
the toilet. If USFWS is managing access, they've lately shown that
they'll only
for permanent installation it's a waste of time because thin wire
steel mesh (chicken fence mesh) will rust away in most ground in a
short time.
Recommend copper mesh but professionally it only seems to be employed
around the base pier of voltage fed towers. For a current fed tower a
lot of
>> I have researched Laport's material, and find nothing that compares
multi-tower array performance when using insulated radial wire versus
uninsulated wire when using a bus wire at the radial overlap points. Since
his worked in the 1950s mostly focused on directional broadcast tower arrays
--
A 180 or 190 degree vertical radiator presents a few different
problems compared to one 90 degrees long, due to the high voltage at
the feedpoint. You can have ground loss there, but since it is more
of a coupling problem than a return current problem, the earth shield
is usually a copper mesh
>Some folks have commented on WWV's
>minuscule operating expense when compared to the total federal budget, but
>the problem with that thinking is we have thousands of federal programs and
>departmental budgets that also contribute just a tiny fraction to federal
>expense. Collectively, it adds
Oh man, any time this topic comes up anywhere the guys come out with
all kinds of suggestions for wire that won't last like galvanized
steel and electric fence wire. Nix nix nix...if you want a permanent
ground system go with copper, insulated or not. Stranded doesn't lie
down as well; you want
>Finally I get an email from the FCC this morning , I won a lottery!!
FB on the new call, but is this all you get? Don't they mail out
something on paper?
Rob
K5UJ
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
I found I had to put a relay in the feedline to my inverted L to
completely open the line on rx. Your typical "coax relay" only opens
the center conductor. Fortunately on 160 m. an open frame relay that
opens the entire line isn't much of an impedance bump. It is
essential that the relay be
1. You never use an inverted L or other vertical for receiving,
unless maybe, you are in a QTH so remote and noise free it might work.
But in-town, forget it.
2, From my experience, 7 or 8 out of 10 hams on 160 m., have poor
antennas, usually low horizontal wires. Most of these fellows are
Suggest that for Hawaii or other locations where you want specific
soil data, contact local small AM or walk in and ask to talk to C.E.
Big corp. owned stations will give corporate hq. run around.
>>#1 As far south in the country as possible due to better propagation.
bzzt, sorry but South =
Don't re-invent the wheel. There are cable installers all over the
place--these are people who are given the tools and connectors by
Comcast and other big companies to make high reliability
installations. When you see a cable truck out on location stop and
ask the guy what he uses. If you
>Why is it ever necessary to call on 1830, 1820, 1822 etc. exactly? Call CQ on
>1820.3, or 1820.4 or 1822.6 or 1827.8.
This only started with plastic radios and digital displays and got
worse with dial resolution down to one cycle. Back when everyone had
VFOs like the HA-5 with dial markers only
Some of you fellows who want to use Ns may benefit from this hint and kink:
https://www.radioworld.com/columns-and-views/repair-and-protect-type-n-connectors
Rob
K5UJ
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year:
On 160 m. (probably due to the close proximity to my inverted L) my
NCC-1 rx antenna phasing box would snap crackle and pop on transmit,
most likely the result of RF getting into the nine relay coils inside.
If you employ phased rx antennas and a tx antenna,
>>W6NL asked me this question - would you run 1500 watts with BNC connectors?
It depends on the duty cycle, length of transmission and vswr.
Brief contester type transmissons at 50% d/c into a load with Z = line
characteristic Z is probably okay.
AM broadcasting 1 KW carrier for 24 hours
My inv. L is 50 feet up and 70 horizontal. Wire is #14 bare 7 strand
hard drawn. 3 feet out from mast. 101 radials, two ground rods and
aluminum siding on garage strapped in to ground sys. on around 1840 Z
is 11 R and ~ 20 ohms X. A typical inverted L with a good ground
system should be down
> It doesn't work very well. Last night it was much poorer on receive and
> transmit than my existing 43' vertical setup. I'm not sure what to think.
Your fundamental problem is a lack of understanding of how a monopole
works, specifically a base fed vertical with a ground system. Anyone
who
Hmmmyou DID relocate or rebuild your ground system so it converges
on a point below the bottom of the 100 foot tall wire right? I mean,
you aren't using the 43 foot vert. ground system with the 100' wire?
A series fed vertical isn't rocket science so let's not over think
this. If it doesn't
>Rob, Not barbed wire, but electric fence wire. This wire stays good for
>decades. Look at the horse and cattle farms around you. It has the same
>conductivity as your galvanized steel tower. Nor does anyone consider
>making a tower out of copper or copper clad steel.☺ A radial system of 60
>1/4
If your inverted L is any good at all it will suck as a receiving
antenna. This is one of the key things to accept about medium wave
but many casual 160 m. operators can't wrap their heads around it. A
flame throwing tx antenna will probably have a completely unacceptable
noise level on
There's activity and then there's "activity." I take it that
"activity" in this discussion really means DX. It so happens that
there's other kinds of operating going on on 160 m. besides DX chasing
if you can tolerate the tedium and torture of an enjoyable ragchew
with an ordinary ham nearby.
I'd also put RF chokes in series with the DC relay lines, at the base
of the vertical antenna to further keep RF off it but also to break it
up so the relay line doesn't detune the 80 m. vertical, perhaps with
another pair at the shack entrance. All this sure seems like a lot
of work which is
> I can't get into any computer mode, mainly because I've been a software
>engineer for almost 40 year and dealing with computers at home is a
>non-starter with me.I like ARC-5s, BC-348s, and Navy RBB's
>myself..
Same here. Computer science major; 30 years in front of monitors and
If you have a properly constructed typical inverted L, i.e. 50 or 60
foot vertical and similar length horizontal, AND a good ground system
serving as the other half of the antenna, your feedpoint Z will be 10
to 20 ohms. The reason you need a matching network is that most coax
(this assumes you
> Over past few months, I have picked up an S5-S7 noise signature on my TB inv
> L antenna with K2AV FCP system.
I would not use an inverted L for receiving. Unusable for rx at my
QTH but FB for transmitting.
73
Rob
K5UJ
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Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>This has got to be on a case-by case basis. I don't have any listening
>antennas, so i listen on my transmit vertical. It works fine. For me. Most
>of the time. Would I hear more stuff with listening antennas? I bet the
>answer is yes under certain conditions.
Yes under certain
Went through this about 2 years ago. Firstly, define "efficient." If
you mean over 90%, as in one of those two stage furnaces with PVC
handling moisture then you are consigned to having to use a variable
speed DC motor (there are no variable speed AC motors, only speed
settings you set manually
Actually, if you have a quarter wave driven element and you are
disconnecting it at the feedpoint, your relay concern shouldn't be
voltage so much as current. Fast switching and large contact surface
is more important than voltage handling.
73
Rob
K5UJ
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Searchable Archives:
If you open the tx antenna feedline for rx, from my experience, you
need to completely open the entire feedline, namely the coaxial cable
shield as well as the center conductor. coaxial relays that maintain
conductivity of the shield when N.O. won't detune/isolate the tx
antenna. I use a pair
There are a number of ways of making a ball gap. but more important
is arriving at the correct spacing for the gap.
The way rain is handled is usually by positioning the balls one above
the other so a water bridge doesn't form between the balls.
Read this by Mark Persons:
>Curious as why non resistor spark plugs aren't on the list of choices. Easy to
>gap. Pt-Pt electrodes last forever (100k miles). There was a ham mounting two
>on a Cu plate for ladder line, but that was many years ago. <
That can work but the other construction methods offer a wider range
of
My opinion: the PCB scare is overblown, just like lead in paint,
asbestos, etc. If you are intelligent about it, taking prudent
precautions, PCB in caps and dummy loads should be fine. I'm sure
hand wringers will weigh in with all kinds of nanny state far fetched
what ifs, but I have PCBs
Interesting information here:
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Antenna%20Book%20Supplemental%20Files/22nd%20Edition/Seawater%20Grounds%20-%20by%20N6LF.pdf
Rob
K5UJ
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
>Modes over last 2 hours
Some may say this is nit picking but to me it is important:
MOST of those so called modes listed are NOT different modes of
transmission, they are digital protocols. A mode of transmission is a
method for altering a RF carrier so it conveys information. CW is a
mode.
>So how is it that I consistently work all over the world on 160m with my
>horizontal dipole at 50ft?!
Oh boy, here we go again. As I believe I have pointed out before,
your QTH is not that far from a fairly vast amount of salt water. You
can believe anything you want, but your experience if
>This is only half tongue-in-cheek.
>With the ambient noise going up, and there being limits to the size and cost
>of receiving arrays most amateurs can build, the next logical step is to raise
>the output power. Perhaps the FCC should be >petitioned to raise the legal
>limit? They were
Most AM plants have been where they are for decades. I remember being
at the local 670 site several years ago. That tx site has been there
since the 1930s. This is a ~800 foot tower, now with two signals on
it, 670 and 780, each 50 KW which means the total peak power on
positive modulation is
It is indeed true that variations in liquid soil moisture will
dramatically affect ground system performance and base fed vertical
impedance when an on, or below grade ground system is used. Frozen
ground moisture is on a par with dry ground. This is one of the
reasons for going beyond the
On 5/15/2020 8:27 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:
""A more reliable approach is a tuner in your shack. The extra coax
cable loss from elevated VSWR is insignificant on topband.""
We don't really have enough information to make that claim. First,
you ought to get a copy of Radio-Electronic
Last year I purchased an Airspy HF+ Discovery SD receiver. Eventually
I got around to trying to use it with a second hand Windows laptop. I
was concerned about blowing out the front end on transmit because I
had heard of that happening with these receivers that are not designed
exclusively for
If you want to find out about QRN somewhere you don't have to ask on
an email list. You can just go to windy.com or www.lightningmaps.org
and see for yourself. Also lightningmaps has a gray line plot so you
can see where dawn and dusk are.
Rob
K5UJ
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The proper way to use a tower like yours as a base excited monopole is
to construct a pier of concrete with a bottom plate pin bowl that is
steel and bonded to copper strap that goes down on each of four sides
of the pier to the ground ring. The reason for this is so that there
is no voltage
>All of this success for BCB listening doesn't mean jack on 160 meters.
>On the BCB, you are never fighting noise, rather just separating different
>stations. They did also do that on 160 meters, for example, letting me
>work JA's even when stateside stations were also calling me.
I'm not
For 160 m. frequencies, connectors on hardline that preserve the
geometry (Z) of the line aren't needed. You can dress the line (i.e.
strip back the jacket and dielectric) and make connections to
transmitters and loads with copper strap that's wrapped around the
center and shield and held with
Tnx for clarification.
> I don't know what "noise is usually AM" means.
Hi, I guess I was thinking of RFI from appliances and arcing contacts
on power lines.
73
Rob
K5UJ
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Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Seems to me that for the money hams pay Flex in that annual service
fee, (or is it monthly?) you ought to get professional Windows
maintenance. There are ex-MS techs out there who can be hired.
I've had a Mac at home for the past 15 years at least. Since 2008
it's been a mac mini. So far,
Are you sure you want to homebrew a vacuum tube _transceiver?_ How
about starting with a separate transmitter and receiver? A tube CW
transmitter for 160 is certainly feasible. A transceiver is too in
theory at least, but kind of a tall order. If you pull that off,
you'll certainly have my
I've never understood what is gained by using a balun at the feedpoint
in this application. The feedline is unbalanced as is the load.
What's the point of a balun. The wild variations in R and X over the
range of the band will likely result in heat and loss at the balun.
If the point is to
> I do take offence at people suggesting that I am somehow lying about the
> results I have always had with a 160m Dipole at 50ft !
I don't think anyone believes you are lying, but perhaps instead, that
you seem to imply that your experience can be generalized and that you
are therefore,
> IMHO, for that number, on-the-ground radials do not need to be anywhere near
> that long. Personally, I subscribe to the same-length-as-the-vertical
> guideline.
The only thing about this I advise in the way of a change is something
W1BB recommended, which was that the radials on the ground
I've used a PVC pipe around 1.5 or 2" o.d. and ~ 3 feet long, for the
past 11 years. No problems so far but it is braced with dacron from
the insulator end, back up to the mast a few feet above where the PVC
is clamped to the mast. Mine is unprotected from sun but the sun
exposure is less in
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