Re: Topband: remotes
100% agree Mike. Have never looked up DXCC totals for others. Contests were to see how many countries I could work. Been active from my only QTH, a 1/4 acre city lot, for 30+ years solely to compete against myself. Obtained #1 honor roll in 2015, but quickly realized that 160m was the true challenge and got hooked. Put up my own tower & later shunt fed with home made capacitor & over 1,000' of radials. Have tested dozens of TX & RX antennas with multiple pre amps & chokes, but have run out of land & options, so now have focused on weak signal modes like FT8 for that 10db advantage and also for accessibility from dxpeditions on those short rare openings to Nebraska. I realize there are some areas of the world I will never work on 160m from my small city lot, but I keep pushing forward with all the current tools available. Jeff NE0DX Michael Tope wrote: People are driven by different things. For instance, I would be lying if I claimed I wasn't competitively driven. And I can tell you that at points in my life it has caused me to "lose perspective". Have I been overly enthusiastic with the drive to my Alpha 91 amplifier on occasion? Yes. Have I driven like an idiot in the wee hours of the morning in hope of getting to my station in time to work a new one? Yes. For some folks, their narcissism seems to be so bad that there are no lines they won't cross to be able to claim top-dog status (e.g. Europeans using North American remotes to work new ones on 160, claiming to be unassisted in contests while using DX cluster assistance, etc). I think the best advice I've ever heard in this regard is to compete with yourself instead of competing with others. For instance, I can almost guarantee that I will never make top 10 in the CW Sprint contest. I can, however, try to best my previous scores (and hopefully stave off cognitive decline). Push yourself to be a better operator and/or station builder, use the accomplishments of your betters to show you what is possible, take pride in your accomplishments, enjoy the thrill of rare openings, and first and foremost - have fun! 73, Mike W4EF... On 2/6/2024 5:39 AM, uy0zg via Topband wrote: But in reality everything is much more complicated. We talked here in the reflector and went our separate ways.. For example, someone on this list honestly earned 300 countries : http://www.arrl.org/system/dxcc/view/DXCC-160M-20240206-USLetter.pdf He's been working on this for decades. And suddenly some completely unfamiliar and envious mug without RX antennas (and maybe without a station at all) declares 320... Calling it simply injustice is not enough... 309 UT5UGR W3GH* 308 I4EWH IV3PRK K8GG SM6CVX W5IZ 307 DJ7MI IK4MGP K4SV OH5VT RZ3AM UT3UA VE3EJ --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua Mike Smith VE9AA писал(а) 2024-02-06 14:51: I knew it was all over many years ago when I worked a 20dB/9 Italian station around Sunrise here in one 160m contest. (1pm in Italy) I have never applied for DXCC. I know what I worked and keep track of it here locally. I am the only person who really cares what all the numbers are and since the ARRL DXCC program has (imo) become so watered down in the last couple decades there is little reason to ever apply. Be happy with who you see in the mirror every morning and celebrate those around you who are doing it the way that appeals to you. For those that aren't.well, don't concern yourself with them. They don't diminish what you've done. 73 Mike VE9AA Mike - Keswick Ridge, NB, Canada _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
"Can I claim a 5000 mile 2m QSO by remotely operating a station 4999 miles away that can communicate with the DX station in the same village?" This is getting a bit silly. If you operate a remote station - it doesn't matter where you are sitting - it matters where your radio is, Many people can't put up stations any more and use a remote station for their operation. What they do with awards is between them and "god". As long as they adhere to whatever rules are in place for their license - there is nothing wrong with it. I cited an example on this reflector recently where an operator was sitting in W6, using a remote on the East Coast and saying they were in CA. Good news - they saw the light and signed NY for their QTH this time. I think this thread has run its course - and most of it has been hashed out before. There will be remote operations, some people will use it to inflate their country totals - and some won't. Not much is going to change as a result of this thread. 73 Tree N6TR On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 6:05 PM Ken WA8JXM wrote: > I agree with Mark. Can I claim a 5000 mile 2m QSO by remotely operating a > station 4999 miles away that can communicate with the DX station in the > same village? > > Ken WA8JXM > > On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 9:35 AM lmlangenfeld wrote: > > > The fundamental questions seem to be: What is the purpose of a DX QSO? > > What does a DX contact signify?In my book, three things:(1) The ability > to > > assemble a station capable of making the contact;(2) An understanding of > > propagation sufficient to identify and exploit the path; and(3) > Sufficient > > operating skill to complete the contact within the constraints of (1) and > > (2).Otherwise, what's the point? Without these three things, why bother > > with radio?Mark -- WA9ETWSent from my U.S.Cellular© Smartphone > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
I agree with Mark. Can I claim a 5000 mile 2m QSO by remotely operating a station 4999 miles away that can communicate with the DX station in the same village? Ken WA8JXM On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 9:35 AM lmlangenfeld wrote: > The fundamental questions seem to be: What is the purpose of a DX QSO? > What does a DX contact signify?In my book, three things:(1) The ability to > assemble a station capable of making the contact;(2) An understanding of > propagation sufficient to identify and exploit the path; and(3) Sufficient > operating skill to complete the contact within the constraints of (1) and > (2).Otherwise, what's the point? Without these three things, why bother > with radio?Mark -- WA9ETWSent from my U.S.Cellular© Smartphone > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
Here you go: http://www.hamstuff.com/QView/qslholders.html 73 de Lee, AA4GA On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 5:37 PM Steve Harrison wrote: > On 2/6/2024 1:34 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > > Because of what I view as this abuse of the Bureau, I stopped sending > > JA cards about ten years ago. > > Five years ago, when I was first beginning to finally accumulate paper > cards for my finally-applied-for-first DXCC, thanks to OQRS (in the end, > I did have to reluctantly use LoTW to apply), the JA cards were some of > those my 98-yr-old father most liked to examine most closely. Unlike > W/K/VE cards, I don't know that I've received all that many JA cards > that looked exactly like one another, other than perhaps the > usually-pastel colors. > > To me, the biggest problem with paper cards, these days, is finding the > good ole-fashioned display sleeves with which to hang them on my walls. > When visitors came to my shack, their eyes weren't drawn to the several > CQ or ARRL contest certificates or other such mundane operating awards > that mean nothing to anybody but another contester or DXer; instead, > they almost immediately go over to awe at the various colorful QSL > cards, many with pretty pictures on the front. When I would explain the > ones for topband (obligatory topband content 8-), they would be > astounded that one could actually talk to somebody halfway around the > world almost on the AM broadcast band with just a little dinky wire > antenna and the several pieces of equipment on my desk. > > Steve, K0XP > > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
On 2/6/2024 1:34 PM, Jim Brown wrote: Because of what I view as this abuse of the Bureau, I stopped sending JA cards about ten years ago. Five years ago, when I was first beginning to finally accumulate paper cards for my finally-applied-for-first DXCC, thanks to OQRS (in the end, I did have to reluctantly use LoTW to apply), the JA cards were some of those my 98-yr-old father most liked to examine most closely. Unlike W/K/VE cards, I don't know that I've received all that many JA cards that looked exactly like one another, other than perhaps the usually-pastel colors. To me, the biggest problem with paper cards, these days, is finding the good ole-fashioned display sleeves with which to hang them on my walls. When visitors came to my shack, their eyes weren't drawn to the several CQ or ARRL contest certificates or other such mundane operating awards that mean nothing to anybody but another contester or DXer; instead, they almost immediately go over to awe at the various colorful QSL cards, many with pretty pictures on the front. When I would explain the ones for topband (obligatory topband content 8-), they would be astounded that one could actually talk to somebody halfway around the world almost on the AM broadcast band with just a little dinky wire antenna and the several pieces of equipment on my desk. Steve, K0XP _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
On 2/6/2024 12:01 PM, Richard McLachlan wrote: I keep a list of countries that I have worked for my own satisfaction but I don’t bother with confirmations and don’t even know what LOTW is. When I was a wee lad, 65 years ago, a QSL card, mailed at our own expense, was "the final courtesy of a QSO." Today, postal costs have gone through the roof, and the Bureau is so overloaded with JA cards (JA hams have an award for the sheer quantity of paper cards received) that it takes two years for me to receive JA cards, and another two years for my card to get back to them. Because of what I view as this abuse of the Bureau, I stopped sending JA cards about ten years ago. For a decade or longer, LOTW, an on-line service provided by ARRL, has been that final courtesy. It's free to upload and download; users are charged only when credits are claimed for ARRL awards. To join, a user outside the US must mail photocopies verifying their identity and their license. In the US, ARRL is able to confirm identities and licenses by accessing a public area of the FCC website. 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: remotes
_ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: remotes
I guess I'm the only topband guy that hasn't commented on this yet, so here goes. I've been doing this DX thing for over 65 years now. Other than WAS on 2-meters (never accomplished) DXCC has been my sole focus; no zones, islands, counties, etc. The holy grail, Top of the Honor Roll, has still eluded me. I missed my one opportunity for FR/G due to life's obligations and I doubt I'll see another one in this lifetime. I could have done what some fellow Honor Roll members have done and had a friend work them for me, but I'm a believer in "honor" part. Topband is a relatively recent pursuit. Looking for a challenge I decided to add another band to my DXCC collection. I worked my first 80 countries or so with an inverted-Vee dipole, 15-meters high at the apex. When no more were forthcoming, I built an Inverted-L and worked 60 more. https://www.qrz.com/db/n7ws describes my working conditions. I don't care how others pursue their goals, if RHR floats their boat, so be it, but I do think the score keeping should be honest. Sadly, I don't believe it is. I would say that is a sign of the times, but experience shows that it is nothing new. Wes N7WS On Tuesday, February 6, 2024 at 08:40:46 AM MST, VE6WZ_Steve wrote: > I wonder, is it also possible to compete with yourself in boxing? :-( Baaa-h-h…..ok, I give Nick UY0ZG a knockout for that comment! Very well said Nick. And indeed reading the posts on this thread, it seems what most guys are doing, including myself, is choosing not to enter the ring at all anymore. The “boxing ring” I refer to is the “official ARRL DXCC” ring. Sure, my logging program keeps track my own results, but the ARRL DXCC results have become meaningless to me. (Not necessarily YOU who are reading this….you don’t need to agree with me) Steve, ve6wz > The original idea is to compete with yourself.. > > In this case, there is no need to summarize the results of the contests... > > I wonder, is it also possible to compete with yourself in boxing? :-( > > > --- > Nick, UY0ZG > http://www.topband.in.ua _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: remotes
Yes, it think it is possible to compete with yourself even in a sport like boxing. The point is that not everyone is going to be Mike Tyson or Mohammad Ali. That doesn't mean that you don't strive to win. It means that you put losing to a better fighter in perspective. You train hard, work on improving your skills, and measure your success based on how you measure up to older versions of yourself. Winning a fight is just icing on the cake. 73, Mike W4EF.. On 2/6/2024 7:04 AM, uy0zg via Topband wrote: The original idea is to compete with yourself.. In this case, there is no need to summarize the results of the contests... I wonder, is it also possible to compete with yourself in boxing? :-( --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua Michael Tope писал(а) 2024-02-06 16:42: People are driven by different things. For instance, I would be lying if I claimed I wasn't competitively driven. And I can tell you that at points in my life it has caused me to "lose perspective". Have I been overly enthusiastic with the drive to my Alpha 91 amplifier on occasion? Yes. Have I driven like an idiot in the wee hours of the morning in hope of getting to my station in time to work a new one? Yes. For some folks, their narcissism seems to be so bad that there are no lines they won't cross to be able to claim top-dog status (e.g. Europeans using North American remotes to work new ones on 160, claiming to be unassisted in contests while using DX cluster assistance, etc). I think the best advice I've ever heard in this regard is to compete with yourself instead of competing with others. For instance, I can almost guarantee that I will never make top 10 in the CW Sprint contest. I can, however, try to best my previous scores (and hopefully stave off cognitive decline). Push yourself to be a better operator and/or station builder, use the accomplishments of your betters to show you what is possible, take pride in your accomplishments, enjoy the thrill of rare openings, and first and foremost - have fun! 73, Mike W4EF... On 2/6/2024 5:39 AM, uy0zg via Topband wrote: But in reality everything is much more complicated. We talked here in the reflector and went our separate ways.. For example, someone on this list honestly earned 300 countries : http://www.arrl.org/system/dxcc/view/DXCC-160M-20240206-USLetter.pdf He's been working on this for decades. And suddenly some completely unfamiliar and envious mug without RX antennas (and maybe without a station at all) declares 320... Calling it simply injustice is not enough... 309 UT5UGR W3GH* 308 I4EWH IV3PRK K8GG SM6CVX W5IZ 307 DJ7MI IK4MGP K4SV OH5VT RZ3AM UT3UA VE3EJ --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua Mike Smith VE9AA писал(а) 2024-02-06 14:51: I knew it was all over many years ago when I worked a 20dB/9 Italian station around Sunrise here in one 160m contest. (1pm in Italy) I have never applied for DXCC. I know what I worked and keep track of it here locally. I am the only person who really cares what all the numbers are and since the ARRL DXCC program has (imo) become so watered down in the last couple decades there is little reason to ever apply. Be happy with who you see in the mirror every morning and celebrate those around you who are doing it the way that appeals to you. For those that aren't.well, don't concern yourself with them. They don't diminish what you've done. 73 Mike VE9AA Mike - Keswick Ridge, NB, Canada _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: remotes
Of course you can. It's called shadow boxing! -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of VE6WZ_Steve Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2024 9:37 AM To: uy0zg Cc: Michael Tope ; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: remotes > I wonder, is it also possible to compete with yourself in boxing? :-( Baaa-h-h…..ok, I give Nick UY0ZG a knockout for that comment! Very well said Nick. And indeed reading the posts on this thread, it seems what most guys are doing, including myself, is choosing not to enter the ring at all anymore. The “boxing ring” I refer to is the “official ARRL DXCC” ring. Sure, my logging program keeps track my own results, but the ARRL DXCC results have become meaningless to me. (Not necessarily YOU who are reading this….you don’t need to agree with me) Steve, ve6wz > The original idea is to compete with yourself.. > > In this case, there is no need to summarize the results of the contests... > > I wonder, is it also possible to compete with yourself in boxing? :-( > > > --- > Nick, UY0ZG > http://www.topband.in.ua _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: remotes
> I wonder, is it also possible to compete with yourself in boxing? :-( Baaa-h-h…..ok, I give Nick UY0ZG a knockout for that comment! Very well said Nick. And indeed reading the posts on this thread, it seems what most guys are doing, including myself, is choosing not to enter the ring at all anymore. The “boxing ring” I refer to is the “official ARRL DXCC” ring. Sure, my logging program keeps track my own results, but the ARRL DXCC results have become meaningless to me. (Not necessarily YOU who are reading this….you don’t need to agree with me) Steve, ve6wz > The original idea is to compete with yourself.. > > In this case, there is no need to summarize the results of the contests... > > I wonder, is it also possible to compete with yourself in boxing? :-( > > > --- > Nick, UY0ZG > http://www.topband.in.ua _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: remotes
The original idea is to compete with yourself.. In this case, there is no need to summarize the results of the contests... I wonder, is it also possible to compete with yourself in boxing? :-( --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua Michael Tope писал(а) 2024-02-06 16:42: People are driven by different things. For instance, I would be lying if I claimed I wasn't competitively driven. And I can tell you that at points in my life it has caused me to "lose perspective". Have I been overly enthusiastic with the drive to my Alpha 91 amplifier on occasion? Yes. Have I driven like an idiot in the wee hours of the morning in hope of getting to my station in time to work a new one? Yes. For some folks, their narcissism seems to be so bad that there are no lines they won't cross to be able to claim top-dog status (e.g. Europeans using North American remotes to work new ones on 160, claiming to be unassisted in contests while using DX cluster assistance, etc). I think the best advice I've ever heard in this regard is to compete with yourself instead of competing with others. For instance, I can almost guarantee that I will never make top 10 in the CW Sprint contest. I can, however, try to best my previous scores (and hopefully stave off cognitive decline). Push yourself to be a better operator and/or station builder, use the accomplishments of your betters to show you what is possible, take pride in your accomplishments, enjoy the thrill of rare openings, and first and foremost - have fun! 73, Mike W4EF... On 2/6/2024 5:39 AM, uy0zg via Topband wrote: But in reality everything is much more complicated. We talked here in the reflector and went our separate ways.. For example, someone on this list honestly earned 300 countries : http://www.arrl.org/system/dxcc/view/DXCC-160M-20240206-USLetter.pdf He's been working on this for decades. And suddenly some completely unfamiliar and envious mug without RX antennas (and maybe without a station at all) declares 320... Calling it simply injustice is not enough... 309 UT5UGR W3GH* 308 I4EWH IV3PRK K8GG SM6CVX W5IZ 307 DJ7MI IK4MGP K4SV OH5VT RZ3AM UT3UA VE3EJ --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua Mike Smith VE9AA писал(а) 2024-02-06 14:51: I knew it was all over many years ago when I worked a 20dB/9 Italian station around Sunrise here in one 160m contest. (1pm in Italy) I have never applied for DXCC. I know what I worked and keep track of it here locally. I am the only person who really cares what all the numbers are and since the ARRL DXCC program has (imo) become so watered down in the last couple decades there is little reason to ever apply. Be happy with who you see in the mirror every morning and celebrate those around you who are doing it the way that appeals to you. For those that aren't.well, don't concern yourself with them. They don't diminish what you've done. 73 Mike VE9AA Mike - Keswick Ridge, NB, Canada _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: remotes
People are driven by different things. For instance, I would be lying if I claimed I wasn't competitively driven. And I can tell you that at points in my life it has caused me to "lose perspective". Have I been overly enthusiastic with the drive to my Alpha 91 amplifier on occasion? Yes. Have I driven like an idiot in the wee hours of the morning in hope of getting to my station in time to work a new one? Yes. For some folks, their narcissism seems to be so bad that there are no lines they won't cross to be able to claim top-dog status (e.g. Europeans using North American remotes to work new ones on 160, claiming to be unassisted in contests while using DX cluster assistance, etc). I think the best advice I've ever heard in this regard is to compete with yourself instead of competing with others. For instance, I can almost guarantee that I will never make top 10 in the CW Sprint contest. I can, however, try to best my previous scores (and hopefully stave off cognitive decline). Push yourself to be a better operator and/or station builder, use the accomplishments of your betters to show you what is possible, take pride in your accomplishments, enjoy the thrill of rare openings, and first and foremost - have fun! 73, Mike W4EF... On 2/6/2024 5:39 AM, uy0zg via Topband wrote: But in reality everything is much more complicated. We talked here in the reflector and went our separate ways.. For example, someone on this list honestly earned 300 countries : http://www.arrl.org/system/dxcc/view/DXCC-160M-20240206-USLetter.pdf He's been working on this for decades. And suddenly some completely unfamiliar and envious mug without RX antennas (and maybe without a station at all) declares 320... Calling it simply injustice is not enough... 309 UT5UGR W3GH* 308 I4EWH IV3PRK K8GG SM6CVX W5IZ 307 DJ7MI IK4MGP K4SV OH5VT RZ3AM UT3UA VE3EJ --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua Mike Smith VE9AA писал(а) 2024-02-06 14:51: I knew it was all over many years ago when I worked a 20dB/9 Italian station around Sunrise here in one 160m contest. (1pm in Italy) I have never applied for DXCC. I know what I worked and keep track of it here locally. I am the only person who really cares what all the numbers are and since the ARRL DXCC program has (imo) become so watered down in the last couple decades there is little reason to ever apply. Be happy with who you see in the mirror every morning and celebrate those around you who are doing it the way that appeals to you. For those that aren't.well, don't concern yourself with them. They don't diminish what you've done. 73 Mike VE9AA Mike - Keswick Ridge, NB, Canada _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
The fundamental questions seem to be: What is the purpose of a DX QSO? What does a DX contact signify?In my book, three things:(1) The ability to assemble a station capable of making the contact;(2) An understanding of propagation sufficient to identify and exploit the path; and(3) Sufficient operating skill to complete the contact within the constraints of (1) and (2).Otherwise, what's the point? Without these three things, why bother with radio?Mark -- WA9ETWSent from my U.S.Cellular© Smartphone _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
Actually by “remotes” I meant listening to RX on other continents. I know only one guy in Ukraine who manages his station via the Internet (it is 20 km away from him). --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua uy0zg via Topband писал(а) 2024-02-05 22:32: Hi This topic has been discussed several times already. ARRL pays no attention and continues its business. There is a saying "And Vasily (that’s the cat’s name) listens and eats..." But there is always a way out - you need to intensify your daily work at 160 and enjoy the process. I recently made my 5000th contact with US stations. I'm glad. If only someone from the US would create similar awards for stations in Europe. And the people in the USA, unfortunately, are busy with their own problems - work, worries... There is no one to save Radio from business and stupidity.. --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua David Raymond писал(а) 2024-02-05 20:11: We've seen the same thing the past few days with people using RHR to work the current 7O2WX operation. Of course, I'm sure they will be claiming it for their DXCC, which at one time was the world's most prestigious and sought after amateur radio award. Between remote operation and digital contacts not having their own category, the once coveted DXCC award has become essentially irrelevant and meaningless. Although solutions are comparatively simple, unfortunately, no one at HQ seems interested in fixing it. 73. . . Dave, W0FLS and - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: remotes
But in reality everything is much more complicated. We talked here in the reflector and went our separate ways.. For example, someone on this list honestly earned 300 countries : http://www.arrl.org/system/dxcc/view/DXCC-160M-20240206-USLetter.pdf He's been working on this for decades. And suddenly some completely unfamiliar and envious mug without RX antennas (and maybe without a station at all) declares 320... Calling it simply injustice is not enough... 309 UT5UGR W3GH* 308 I4EWH IV3PRK K8GG SM6CVX W5IZ 307 DJ7MI IK4MGP K4SV OH5VT RZ3AM UT3UA VE3EJ --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua Mike Smith VE9AA писал(а) 2024-02-06 14:51: I knew it was all over many years ago when I worked a 20dB/9 Italian station around Sunrise here in one 160m contest. (1pm in Italy) I have never applied for DXCC. I know what I worked and keep track of it here locally. I am the only person who really cares what all the numbers are and since the ARRL DXCC program has (imo) become so watered down in the last couple decades there is little reason to ever apply. Be happy with who you see in the mirror every morning and celebrate those around you who are doing it the way that appeals to you. For those that aren't.well, don't concern yourself with them. They don't diminish what you've done. 73 Mike VE9AA Mike - Keswick Ridge, NB, Canada _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: remotes
I knew it was all over many years ago when I worked a 20dB/9 Italian station around Sunrise here in one 160m contest. (1pm in Italy) I have never applied for DXCC. I know what I worked and keep track of it here locally. I am the only person who really cares what all the numbers are and since the ARRL DXCC program has (imo) become so watered down in the last couple decades there is little reason to ever apply. Be happy with who you see in the mirror every morning and celebrate those around you who are doing it the way that appeals to you. For those that aren't.well, don't concern yourself with them. They don't diminish what you've done. 73 Mike VE9AA Mike - Keswick Ridge, NB, Canada _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
Charlie, that was just about what I was thinking. Basically, 'twas always thus. I remember operating from a M/M contest station in the early '70s and one of the old timers, spying our non-memory keyers, commented that we aren't really sending CW ourselves, it was the little box filled with Dinosaur era IC chips doing the sending. What would he have thought of N1MM, autofill and Super Check Partial? I have modest DXCC totals compared to many here, but my only interest is how I assess what I have accomplished. It took me roughly 50 years to finally make Mixed DXCC Honor Roll from my modest stations, and I am frankly not that impressed :). But I am also not impressed by the dude who bought 10 acres, put up stacked monobanders, established a "shack" more elaborate in it's own way than the WCBS TV transmitter facility I worked at in the Empire State Building when I first came to NYC and proceeded to make Honor Roll in a few years. I did admire his drive to do all this (and the monetary outlay I could only dream of), but still... Maybe someone should establish a new Countries (oops, entities) award whose rules would make even the most hidebound traditionalist proud. I still suspect DXCC would keep chugging along, the idea that it has been debased and devalued is mostly in folks heads. BTW, what former DXCC department head at HQ (who worked most of his countries elsewhere than CT) would drive out to one of the big local stations to work a new country (ENTITY...) when one came on the air? I'll never tell, hi hi. 73, Kevin K3OX - Original Message - From: "Charles Morrison" To: "topband" Sent: Monday, February 5, 2024 8:45:08 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Remotes * If you want to "fix it", petition to change DXCC to read:* * "4-digit GRID SQUARE" -or- * * "Same State" -or- * *"Same Antenna for all contacts"* * -or- "wearing the same clothes as you wore for your first confirmed country" * *instead of "within your country."* *Then the people who are whining now will still whine = * *Oh, he's on the higher peak in my grid,* *Oh, he's visiting his buddy with the 4-Square and they're having a pizza -&- beer party and I love pizza too. * *My old clothes dont fit any more.* *My dial-up mode is too slow for today's internet.* *I'm still stuck in the 1970's with my Drake line.* *DXCC RULE 9. Station Location and Boundary:* *a)* All stations used to make contacts for a specific DXCC award must be located within the same DXCC entity. *c)* QSOs made with legally licensed, remotely controlled stations are allowed to be used for DXCC credit. Back in the day the A.M operators complained about the SSB guys "slop-bucket" So much complaining... _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes 160 and other bands
25 to 59 years ago, I signed portable when operating away from home, and was happy and even proud to do so (usually). Today... not so much, since it lengthens my callsign so much. Of course, in the old CD parties, signing portable never slowed K2EIU/5 down much; he still came out on top more often than not (as he still does)! You are one of the paragons of remote DXing, Bob; nothing wrong with what you're having to do. What I and some others are bitching about are the folks who hire a remote on the other side of the country, even if it's legal and allowed by the rules; and especially when they don't make any distinction between working schtuff with that station, and working them from their home QTH. I was glad to hear both you and W8KA work 9M2AX this morning; it's been a long time coming! Steve, K0XP On 2/5/2024 9:07 PM, Bob Kile wrote: The topic of remotes has been covered on this channel as much as FT8. In reality it is the demise of DXCC Award that is the issue. I for one operate a private remote along with several others and they are not for hire. :) Two years ago as part of the K0RF multi-multi team we operated remotely from at least 4 states connected to Chuck's station in Colorado. The rules are very specific for contests but not quite so on the DXer side. What is going on is legal in FCC rules and I have no squabble except when I go to a Topband dinner and have some DXCC notable claim 290 countries from a city lot.. Bull Shit. If you try to pull that in front of me I will call your bluff. In CQ160CW test I operated portable from the Texas Gulf coast. Did I sign portable /5? No is the answer as the exchange was RST plus State. Legal? Yes under FCC rules. Remote may be the only way some guys can get on the air. They maybe in senior living environments or whatever. In Las Vegas where an acre of residential land will go for $1million and the average lot size for single family home is the footprint of the home plus 5ft on each side. I chose a remote rather walking around with 2 meter handheld or living in a crime infected dump. Besides the benefits of 20dB noise level improvement was worth it for my hobby experience. I have spent the better part of twenty years building and operating my remote with my goal of working _WAZ 160 from a single location_. I may very well be dead before that happens but I keep trying. Old School you say. Yes and proud of it! 73 Bob W7RH -- See my QRZ.com page at *https://www.qrz.com/db/K0XP* _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes 160 and other bands
The topic of remotes has been covered on this channel as much as FT8. In reality it is the demise of DXCC Award that is the issue. I for one operate a private remote along with several others and they are not for hire. :) Two years ago as part of the K0RF multi-multi team we operated remotely from at least 4 states connected to Chuck's station in Colorado. The rules are very specific for contests but not quite so on the DXer side. What is going on is legal in FCC rules and I have no squabble except when I go to a Topband dinner and have some DXCC notable claim 290 countries from a city lot.. Bull Shit. If you try to pull that in front of me I will call your bluff. In CQ160CW test I operated portable from the Texas Gulf coast. Did I sign portable /5? No is the answer as the exchange was RST plus State. Legal? Yes under FCC rules. Remote may be the only way some guys can get on the air. They maybe in senior living environments or whatever. In Las Vegas where an acre of residential land will go for $1million and the average lot size for single family home is the footprint of the home plus 5ft on each side. I chose a remote rather walking around with 2 meter handheld or living in a crime infected dump. Besides the benefits of 20dB noise level improvement was worth it for my hobby experience. I have spent the better part of twenty years building and operating my remote with my goal of working _WAZ 160 from a single location_. I may very well be dead before that happens but I keep trying. Old School you say. Yes and proud of it! 73 Bob W7RH -- W7RH DM35OJ If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little. George Carlin _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
Why is it important what someone else does? Doesn't our fulfillment come from what **we** do? I admit, I'm not a competitive person. I prefer to be amazed at what I can do with my own skills, including the antenna I experiment with, Someone else blows $50,000 on an antenna and works a weak 9K2 station. Okay, bully for him, that doesn't change what I do. Some people can buy their DXCC, others earn it. I have 132 (or so) confirmed countries but that's just for me. I haven't sent it in for League approval, why should I care what Newington collects money for? Heck, back 30 or 40 years ago, I cleaned out the shack and pitched all my certificates and QSL cards, 78 countries at the time. It doesn't matter, **I** know I had done that before spotting networks or any of the modern crutches. It's a HOBBY, it's a PASTIME. YMMV. Ken WA8JXM On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 9:08 PM Tree wrote: > "*I'm still stuck in the 1970's with my Drake line.*" > > Nothing wrong with that. :-) > > Tree N6TR > > On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 5:45 PM Charles Morrison < > charles.morrison.n...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > * If you want to "fix it", petition to change DXCC to read:* > > > > * "4-digit GRID SQUARE" -or- * > > > > * "Same State" -or- * > > > > *"Same Antenna for all contacts"* > > > > * -or- "wearing the same clothes as you wore for your first confirmed > > country" * > > > > *instead of "within your country."* > > > > > > *Then the people who are whining now will still whine = * > > > > *Oh, he's on the higher peak in my grid,* > > > > *Oh, he's visiting his buddy with the 4-Square and they're having a > > pizza -&- beer party and I love pizza too. * > > > > *My old clothes dont fit any more.* > > > > *My dial-up mode is too slow for today's internet.* > > > > *I'm still stuck in the 1970's with my Drake line.* > > > > > > *DXCC RULE 9. Station Location and Boundary:* > > > > *a)* All stations used to make contacts for a specific DXCC award must be > > located within the same DXCC entity. > > *c)* QSOs made with legally licensed, remotely controlled stations are > > allowed to be used for DXCC credit. > > > > > > Back in the day the A.M operators complained about the SSB guys > > "slop-bucket" > > > > So much complaining... > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
"*I'm still stuck in the 1970's with my Drake line.*" Nothing wrong with that. :-) Tree N6TR On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 5:45 PM Charles Morrison < charles.morrison.n...@gmail.com> wrote: > * If you want to "fix it", petition to change DXCC to read:* > > * "4-digit GRID SQUARE" -or- * > > * "Same State" -or- * > > *"Same Antenna for all contacts"* > > * -or- "wearing the same clothes as you wore for your first confirmed > country" * > > *instead of "within your country."* > > > *Then the people who are whining now will still whine = * > > *Oh, he's on the higher peak in my grid,* > > *Oh, he's visiting his buddy with the 4-Square and they're having a > pizza -&- beer party and I love pizza too. * > > *My old clothes dont fit any more.* > > *My dial-up mode is too slow for today's internet.* > > *I'm still stuck in the 1970's with my Drake line.* > > > *DXCC RULE 9. Station Location and Boundary:* > > *a)* All stations used to make contacts for a specific DXCC award must be > located within the same DXCC entity. > *c)* QSOs made with legally licensed, remotely controlled stations are > allowed to be used for DXCC credit. > > > Back in the day the A.M operators complained about the SSB guys > "slop-bucket" > > So much complaining... > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
* If you want to "fix it", petition to change DXCC to read:* * "4-digit GRID SQUARE" -or- * * "Same State" -or- * *"Same Antenna for all contacts"* * -or- "wearing the same clothes as you wore for your first confirmed country" * *instead of "within your country."* *Then the people who are whining now will still whine = * *Oh, he's on the higher peak in my grid,* *Oh, he's visiting his buddy with the 4-Square and they're having a pizza -&- beer party and I love pizza too. * *My old clothes dont fit any more.* *My dial-up mode is too slow for today's internet.* *I'm still stuck in the 1970's with my Drake line.* *DXCC RULE 9. Station Location and Boundary:* *a)* All stations used to make contacts for a specific DXCC award must be located within the same DXCC entity. *c)* QSOs made with legally licensed, remotely controlled stations are allowed to be used for DXCC credit. Back in the day the A.M operators complained about the SSB guys "slop-bucket" So much complaining... _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
Jeff Reynolds Hans Hjelmström wrote: Hams seems not to carethere is not a single sound on qrg,BUT Hams seems to be happy to push a finger and let the computer make a so called qso for them. Lets see . is your finger on the key ?? FT8 has opened up the world on my 1/4 acre city lot in the black hole of Nebraska. When I work FT8, I'm FULLY engaged similar to MMTTY when RTTY was popular. On FT8 I look for a station then try and find a open split frequency to respond and I'm constantly monitoring TX frequency to make the QSO (similar to split on CW or SSB). And it WORKS. I think a lot of people just don't understand how FT8 works. Sure, FT8 can be abused just like remote stations & contests. Also the RIB business is as crazy. Having a station on a place,and operators all over the globe. Rather easy to handle a pile-up with a station in Pacific and sitting operating that in Finland. If my actual signal originates from my QTH, is picked up at the DX location , & I hear the signal from the DX location at my QTH, I don't care if a penguin on the south pole is remotely generating the signal for the DX as the actual RF has legitimately made the round trip. ( I believe IOTA has this wrong) When I was BCB DXing as a kid and heard a commercial station playing a recorded program, did I not actually receive that signal ? Of course not. I received it & logged it. No We all have to do it our own way and let the other do it their way,BUT dxcc is gone for ever as an important award. Agreed. DXCC has lost it's prestige, But like most on this group, my goal is to make all my QSO's from my QTH with my TX & RX antennas for my personal satisfaction. It would be an empty QSO to work needed DX from a remote station thousands of miles from my QTH. As others have noted, there is no way to stop the people making these empty QSO's for either DXCC or more importantly in contests. Just be true to yourself & enjoy our wonderful hobby. NE0DX 73 Hans SM6CVX 5 feb 2024 kl. 19:48 skrev David Olean : Hi Steve, The horse has left the barn. I have lost a bit of enthusiasm ever since Maine became a hotspot for 160M into Europe a number of years ago. There are so many "killer" remote stations in the state now. There is no way I can really compete against it and it is very dis heartening to hear the W7s using a Maine station and not signing as portable. I have heard all the same stuff you were hearing this morning. There is really nothing you or I can do about it. Some follow the rules, and some will bend them severely. As for radio awards, W6PO commented years ago"It is just like collecting matchbook covers". I set my own internal goals. Dave K1WHS On 2/5/2024 11:57 AM, Steve Harrison wrote: This growing practice of hiring a remote in another call area far from your own QTH, then working wild and exotic DX wile preventing deserving locals operating from their home stations from working same DX, is abominable and just plain unethical. I lost what respect I had for a couple people I heard work 9M2AX this morning when I heard them do that. I heard another guy do that last week that I've only just barely heard on 160 in the past across the country; he was at least two hours beyond his own sunrise, so obviously hiring a remote, probably that big one up near Carson City, Nevada, same station these two guys this morning were probably using. The week before last, there was another east coaster, at least 2-1/2 hours past his sunrise, who did the same thing at, most likely, the same station. I bet the owner of the station is advertising it as "WORK 9M2AX on 160 from here!!! Only $XXX for a half hour!!". I hope these guys are putting an asterisk on their 9M2 QSL cards to indicate they didn't work Ross from home; but I won't hold my breath that they do. Steve, K0XP _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
“Unethical” is an interesting term. In my profession, periodontics, ethics and ethical behavior is proscribed in our rules. Since dentistry, like the law and medicine are regulated on a state by state basis, what is “unethical” in Tennessee may not be in Florida. In amateur radio? What we have are rules. The FCC and ARRL have made it clear that remote operation, properly done, is legal. The ARRL has made it clear that if a contact is made within the confines of the Continental U. S. it is good for ARRL-sponsored awards. That is as good as it’s going to get. I have a lovely home station. I use RHR (eleven years and counting) from our dental office 25 miles from home. But make no mistake: if I can’t hear a station at home I go to RHR. Just another tool in the toolbox. I can only assume you haven’t been DXing long. I am 50 years in and often come up dry. It happens Mr. Harrison. You DX your way and I will DX mine. So long as neither of us violates the rules it shouldn’t matter. But you are not the arbiter of ethics. Nor are you more deserving of a QSO than am I. Steve Daniel, NN4T Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 5, 2024, at 11:33 AM, jim.thom jim.t...@telus.net > wrote: > > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2024 08:57:26 -0800 > From: Steve Harrison > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Topband: Remotes > >> This growing practice of hiring a remote in another call area far from >> your own QTH, then working wild and exotic DX while preventing deserving >> locals operating from their home stations from working same DX, is >> abominable and just plain unethical. I lost what respect I had for a >> couple people I heard work 9M2AX this morning when I heard them do that. >> I heard another guy do that last week that I've only just barely heard >> on 160 in the past across the country; he was at least two hours beyond >> his own sunrise, so obviously hiring a remote, probably that big one up >> near Carson City, Nevada, same station these two guys this morning were >> probably using. The week before last, there was another east coaster, at >> least 2-1/2 hours past his sunrise, who did the same thing at, most >> likely, the same station. I bet the owner of the station is advertising >> it as "WORK 9M2AX on 160 from here!!! Only $XXX for a half hour!!". > >> I hope these guys are putting an asterisk on their 9M2 QSL cards to >> indicate they didn't work Ross from home; but I won't hold my breath >> that they do. > >> Steve, K0XP > > ## I find it amusing that using a full remote station thousands of miles > away is..'ok', yet > using a simple remote RX, say 10- 100 miles away, while transmitting from > your own backyard, is a 'no-no'. I can't hear worth beans from my own > qth, yet 100 miles north of me, my daughter is on 10 acres, and at that > location, can hear very well. > > ## It all makes no sense. > > Jim VE7RF > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
Ed, Thats a consequence, not intent. my 2c. I really don't care much but can see the issue. 73 Dave NZ3M From: Topband on behalf of sawye...@earthlink.net Sent: Monday, February 5, 2024 12:49 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Remotes Steve, I thought that train left the station about 10 years ago. Remote stations DXing is well established. Is it really any different than someone that used to live in W6 and now lives in W1 that has 9M2 previously worked and confirmed and didn't restart their 160M DXCC total with the move? Ed N1UR _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
Hi This topic has been discussed several times already. ARRL pays no attention and continues its business. There is a saying "And Vasily (that’s the cat’s name) listens and eats..." But there is always a way out - you need to intensify your daily work at 160 and enjoy the process. I recently made my 5000th contact with US stations. I'm glad. If only someone from the US would create similar awards for stations in Europe. And the people in the USA, unfortunately, are busy with their own problems - work, worries... There is no one to save Radio from business and stupidity.. --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua David Raymond писал(а) 2024-02-05 20:11: We've seen the same thing the past few days with people using RHR to work the current 7O2WX operation. Of course, I'm sure they will be claiming it for their DXCC, which at one time was the world's most prestigious and sought after amateur radio award. Between remote operation and digital contacts not having their own category, the once coveted DXCC award has become essentially irrelevant and meaningless. Although solutions are comparatively simple, unfortunately, no one at HQ seems interested in fixing it. 73. . . Dave, W0FLS and - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
On 2/5/2024 8:57 AM, Steve Harrison wrote: This growing practice of hiring a remote in another call area far from your own QTH, then working wild and exotic DX wile preventing deserving locals operating from their home stations from working same DX, is abominable and just plain unethical. I strongly agree. When I moved from WV to IL in 1964, I kept my DXCC QSOs. When I moved to NorCal in 2006, I started over. To do otherwise would have been cheating. From NI6T, a Topband OT, I learned that a guy who claimed record-high totals on Topband combined QSOs from CO and after he had moved to the east coast. Phony baloney. I have no problem with guys on city or suburban lots using RX within a reasonable distance, like 75 miles. When W7RH lived in/near Las Vegas, he built a fine station in the desert several hundred miles away that he operated both onside and remotely. There's a guy in VE6 who has built a spectacularly good remote station a few hundred miles north of the city where he lives (forgot his call), and has documented it on his website. These guys have my great respect for their significant engineering achievements. 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
Hans … you nailed it with your comment: “No We all have to do it our own way and let the other do it their way,BUT dxcc is gone for ever as an important award.” I don’t even update my DXCC totals anymore as it no longer represents an accomplishment that I can share and enjoy with fellow operators. I used to compete on Topband with fellow hams and anxiously await the DXCC annual listings to see where we stood. No longer. I can’t control the behaviors of the W1 that remote through a W7 station for a 9M2 Topband Q. I can’t control an awards program that gives the FT8 op the same credit for DX Q where the computer does the heavy lifting, as I get working them on CW using what little remains between my ears. I can’t control the ethical practices of a Ukrainian station I heard working multiple Portland Oregon stations on 6M with a signal 20/S9. But, as you so correctly point out, we must do it our way .. I moved from Washington State (where my current DXCC, 9BDXCC and 200 5BWAZ was achieved) to Las Vegas. I am sharing a private remote station …my equipment … my antennas, in southern Utah. I could begin adding to my DXCC Topband totals but would that meet my ‘accomplishment’ needs? The propagation difference between the two QTHs is profound! I elected to not add anymore to my existing DXCC record, and start anew. I didn’t need to. Actually, I decided to drop DXCC altogether because it means nothing without a plethora of footnotes, and just enjoy those great Topband contacts when they occur. It’s a pity …I think there could have been leadership by the awards folks to provide a space for everyone to enjoy their angle of the hobby. Unfortunately, that leadership was lacking. As someone in an earlier thread noted, ‘the train has left the station’. Dennis, K7FL Currently in Lacoste France listening on his remote in Utah On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 8:11 PM Hans Hjelmström wrote: > Well, > > Topband and 6 meters is killed by FT 8 anyway. > > Hams seems not to carethere is not a single sound on qrg,BUT Hams > seems to > be happy to push a finger and let the computer make a so called qso for > them. > > Also the RIB business is as crazy. Having a station on a place,and > operators all over > the globe. Rather easy to handle a pile-up with a station in Pacific and > sitting operating that in > Finland. > > No We all have to do it our own way and let the other do it their way,BUT > dxcc is gone > for ever as an important award. > > 73 Hans SM6CVX > > > > 5 feb 2024 kl. 19:48 skrev David Olean : > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > The horse has left the barn. I have lost a bit of enthusiasm ever since > Maine became a hotspot for 160M into Europe a number of years ago. There > are so many "killer" remote stations in the state now. There is no way I > can really compete against it and it is very dis heartening to hear the W7s > using a Maine station and not signing as portable. I have heard all the > same stuff you were hearing this morning. There is really nothing you or I > can do about it. Some follow the rules, and some will bend them severely. > As for radio awards, W6PO commented years ago"It is just like > collecting matchbook covers". I set my own internal goals. > > > > Dave K1WHS > > > > On 2/5/2024 11:57 AM, Steve Harrison wrote: > >> This growing practice of hiring a remote in another call area far from > >> your own QTH, then working wild and exotic DX wile preventing deserving > >> locals operating from their home stations from working same DX, is > >> abominable and just plain unethical. I lost what respect I had for a > >> couple people I heard work 9M2AX this morning when I heard them do that. > >> I heard another guy do that last week that I've only just barely heard > >> on 160 in the past across the country; he was at least two hours beyond > >> his own sunrise, so obviously hiring a remote, probably that big one up > >> near Carson City, Nevada, same station these two guys this morning were > >> probably using. The week before last, there was another east coaster, at > >> least 2-1/2 hours past his sunrise, who did the same thing at, most > >> likely, the same station. I bet the owner of the station is advertising > >> it as "WORK 9M2AX on 160 from here!!! Only $XXX for a half hour!!". > >> > >> I hope these guys are putting an asterisk on their 9M2 QSL cards to > >> indicate they didn't work Ross from home; but I won't hold my breath > >> that they do. > >> > >> Steve, K0XP > >> > >> > >> > >> _ > >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
While the idea of using a remote to work challenging DX on 160 or other bands had never occurred to me prior to reading about it on these reflectors a few years ago, there is of course the simplest solution of all and GUARANTEED TO WORK! Just DON'T DO IT! I realize that not everyone feels that way, but thankfully, it solves (for me at least) the problem of remote users although, as others have pointed out, it often makes it more challenging to work some DX stations over a difficult path at the possible times to work them, because now other stations will be calling that normally would not be in that pileup. Certainly other people feel differently and will, IMO, de facto cheat to accomplish whatever it is they had wanted to accomplish. And it does mean that my and others overall accomplishment has been diminished in the eyes of some people because of the "taint" that might be involved by stealth remoters that cause people to wonder - did he really work and confirm all of those stations from his own station without remote? But I can't control what others they think or don't think - that's on them. I know that that I worked and confirmed all 340 current countries only from my own station without the help of anyone else or any other stations, whether other ops know that or not, or even care. It took me 50 years to do it and I will always have the personal satisfaction that comes with it, well earned. I would NOT feel that way if I ever used a remote station to do it while others might feel just as proud. That's for them to decide. Certainly I do not look upon their "accomplishment" gotten by using remote the same way that I view my or others accomplishment WITHOUT using remote. I suspect that deep down, they really don't either. I still believe that anyone operating remote should be in a separate category be it awards chasing or in contests. Using remote to make your qso is NOT radio based it is by definition Internet based. Doubt that? Simply unplug off your modem, router and/or switch. Can you still make the same contact without changing your connections? No? Then your contact was NOT made via amateur radio alone. I think the technology used to make it possible to operate that way is very cool and I have used it myself. I would encourage others to use it as well to solve a host of problems that people might have in making contacts otherwise. But let's not pretend that making qso's via remote is the same as making them without remote. It's NOT and never will be. It should be in it's own SEPARATE category. PERIOD. I know that some people like to say that "That ship has sailed", "The horse is out of the barn", etc. etc. The truth is that that is PURE BUNK! If contest sponsors/adjudicating committees/awards committees wanted to put remote in a separate category they could and would do so NOW - the fact is, they DON'T want to, even though some committees see fit to make radical changes to many rules and categories and creating/merging/deleting them on an ongoing basis. 73 Bob, KQ2M On 2024-02-05 12:11, David Raymond wrote: We've seen the same thing the past few days with people using RHR to work the current 7O2WX operation. Of course, I'm sure they will be claiming it for their DXCC, which at one time was the world's most prestigious and sought after amateur radio award. Between remote operation and digital contacts not having their own category, the once coveted DXCC award has become essentially irrelevant and meaningless. Although solutions are comparatively simple, unfortunately, no one at HQ seems interested in fixing it. 73. . . Dave, W0FLS On 2/5/2024 11:38 AM, Mark, PA5MW via Topband wrote: Agree with you here Steve. Cannot understand why people would be enjoying, let alone peer bragging, about something which is NOT resembling their personal effort. It sure has its roots in decent parenthood, education etc. Do not (only) blame remote and current media encouraging this behavior. In the end it is a choice. Do blame organisations for not educating people, not maintaining control to some extend and worse: endorse bad incentives by mixing fake hamradio “ efforts” in oldskool categories. 73 Mark PA5MW Sent from Mail for Windows From: Steve Harrison Sent: Monday, 5 February 2024 17:58 To:topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Remotes This growing practice of hiring a remote in another call area far from your own QTH, then working wild and exotic DX wile preventing deserving locals operating from their home stations from working same DX, is abominable and just plain unethical. I lost what respect I had for a couple people I heard work 9M2AX this morning when I heard them do that. I heard another guy do that last week that I've only just barely heard on 160 in the past across the country; he was at least two hours beyond his own sunrise, so obviously hiring a remote, probably that big one up near
Re: Topband: Remotes
Well, Topband and 6 meters is killed by FT 8 anyway. Hams seems not to carethere is not a single sound on qrg,BUT Hams seems to be happy to push a finger and let the computer make a so called qso for them. Also the RIB business is as crazy. Having a station on a place,and operators all over the globe. Rather easy to handle a pile-up with a station in Pacific and sitting operating that in Finland. No We all have to do it our own way and let the other do it their way,BUT dxcc is gone for ever as an important award. 73 Hans SM6CVX > 5 feb 2024 kl. 19:48 skrev David Olean : > > Hi Steve, > > The horse has left the barn. I have lost a bit of enthusiasm ever since > Maine became a hotspot for 160M into Europe a number of years ago. There are > so many "killer" remote stations in the state now. There is no way I can > really compete against it and it is very dis heartening to hear the W7s using > a Maine station and not signing as portable. I have heard all the same stuff > you were hearing this morning. There is really nothing you or I can do about > it. Some follow the rules, and some will bend them severely. As for radio > awards, W6PO commented years ago"It is just like collecting matchbook > covers". I set my own internal goals. > > Dave K1WHS > > On 2/5/2024 11:57 AM, Steve Harrison wrote: >> This growing practice of hiring a remote in another call area far from >> your own QTH, then working wild and exotic DX wile preventing deserving >> locals operating from their home stations from working same DX, is >> abominable and just plain unethical. I lost what respect I had for a >> couple people I heard work 9M2AX this morning when I heard them do that. >> I heard another guy do that last week that I've only just barely heard >> on 160 in the past across the country; he was at least two hours beyond >> his own sunrise, so obviously hiring a remote, probably that big one up >> near Carson City, Nevada, same station these two guys this morning were >> probably using. The week before last, there was another east coaster, at >> least 2-1/2 hours past his sunrise, who did the same thing at, most >> likely, the same station. I bet the owner of the station is advertising >> it as "WORK 9M2AX on 160 from here!!! Only $XXX for a half hour!!". >> >> I hope these guys are putting an asterisk on their 9M2 QSL cards to >> indicate they didn't work Ross from home; but I won't hold my breath >> that they do. >> >> Steve, K0XP >> >> >> >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
Hi Steve, The horse has left the barn. I have lost a bit of enthusiasm ever since Maine became a hotspot for 160M into Europe a number of years ago. There are so many "killer" remote stations in the state now. There is no way I can really compete against it and it is very dis heartening to hear the W7s using a Maine station and not signing as portable. I have heard all the same stuff you were hearing this morning. There is really nothing you or I can do about it. Some follow the rules, and some will bend them severely. As for radio awards, W6PO commented years ago"It is just like collecting matchbook covers". I set my own internal goals. Dave K1WHS On 2/5/2024 11:57 AM, Steve Harrison wrote: This growing practice of hiring a remote in another call area far from your own QTH, then working wild and exotic DX wile preventing deserving locals operating from their home stations from working same DX, is abominable and just plain unethical. I lost what respect I had for a couple people I heard work 9M2AX this morning when I heard them do that. I heard another guy do that last week that I've only just barely heard on 160 in the past across the country; he was at least two hours beyond his own sunrise, so obviously hiring a remote, probably that big one up near Carson City, Nevada, same station these two guys this morning were probably using. The week before last, there was another east coaster, at least 2-1/2 hours past his sunrise, who did the same thing at, most likely, the same station. I bet the owner of the station is advertising it as "WORK 9M2AX on 160 from here!!! Only $XXX for a half hour!!". I hope these guys are putting an asterisk on their 9M2 QSL cards to indicate they didn't work Ross from home; but I won't hold my breath that they do. Steve, K0XP _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
The art of working DX has been going downhill for years. I would not allow spotting. Mike N2MS > On 02/05/2024 1:11 PM EST David Raymond wrote: > > > We've seen the same thing the past few days with people using RHR to > work the current 7O2WX operation. Of course, I'm sure they will be > claiming it for their DXCC, which at one time was the world's most > prestigious and sought after amateur radio award. Between remote > operation and digital contacts not having their own category, the once > coveted DXCC award has become essentially irrelevant and meaningless. > Although solutions are comparatively simple, unfortunately, no one at HQ > seems interested in fixing it. > > 73. . . Dave, W0FLS _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
On 2/5/2024 10:11 AM, David Raymond wrote: We've seen the same thing the past few days with people using RHR to work the current 7O2WX operation. Of course, I'm sure they will be claiming it for their DXCC, which at one time was the world's most prestigious and sought after amateur radio award. Between remote operation and digital contacts not having their own category, the once coveted DXCC award has become essentially irrelevant and meaningless. Although solutions are comparatively simple, unfortunately, no one at HQ seems interested in fixing it. There's also the little problem of LoTW, which has basically eliminated the need for printed QSLs. Now, when you have a visitor to your shack, you get to amaze them by showing them a spreadsheet: "Here's what countries of the world I've talked with this week!" instead of they seeing and ahhhing over the pretty, printed QSL cards hanging on your walls with all those different country names printed on them. Just three years ago, my 98-yr-old father loved to go through the cards I'd accumulated just from my short operation at his own HOA-ruled, gated-community home with the stealth wire antler snaking out of my bedroom window up into a nearby pine tree. He'd read every word the DX wrote on the card, sometimes spending a minute carefully examining a card. Steve, K0XP _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
We've seen the same thing the past few days with people using RHR to work the current 7O2WX operation. Of course, I'm sure they will be claiming it for their DXCC, which at one time was the world's most prestigious and sought after amateur radio award. Between remote operation and digital contacts not having their own category, the once coveted DXCC award has become essentially irrelevant and meaningless. Although solutions are comparatively simple, unfortunately, no one at HQ seems interested in fixing it. 73. . . Dave, W0FLS On 2/5/2024 11:38 AM, Mark, PA5MW via Topband wrote: Agree with you here Steve. Cannot understand why people would be enjoying, let alone peer bragging, about something which is NOT resembling their personal effort. It sure has its roots in decent parenthood, education etc. Do not (only) blame remote and current media encouraging this behavior. In the end it is a choice. Do blame organisations for not educating people, not maintaining control to some extend and worse: endorse bad incentives by mixing fake hamradio “ efforts” in oldskool categories. 73 Mark PA5MW Sent from Mail for Windows From: Steve Harrison Sent: Monday, 5 February 2024 17:58 To:topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Remotes This growing practice of hiring a remote in another call area far from your own QTH, then working wild and exotic DX wile preventing deserving locals operating from their home stations from working same DX, is abominable and just plain unethical. I lost what respect I had for a couple people I heard work 9M2AX this morning when I heard them do that. I heard another guy do that last week that I've only just barely heard on 160 in the past across the country; he was at least two hours beyond his own sunrise, so obviously hiring a remote, probably that big one up near Carson City, Nevada, same station these two guys this morning were probably using. The week before last, there was another east coaster, at least 2-1/2 hours past his sunrise, who did the same thing at, most likely, the same station. I bet the owner of the station is advertising it as "WORK 9M2AX on 160 from here!!! Only $XXX for a half hour!!". I hope these guys are putting an asterisk on their 9M2 QSL cards to indicate they didn't work Ross from home; but I won't hold my breath that they do. Steve, K0XP _ Searchable Archives:http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives:http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
Steve, I thought that train left the station about 10 years ago. Remote stations DXing is well established. Is it really any different than someone that used to live in W6 and now lives in W1 that has 9M2 previously worked and confirmed and didn't restart their 160M DXCC total with the move? Ed N1UR _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Remotes
For a number of reasons, I operate my regular Indiana QTH from here in Montana. Here we have CCRs that limit me to very low invisible stealth antennas and fewer bands, and being surrounded by mountains 2000 to 5000 feet higher does not help. So for DXCC purposes and for 160 meters I am in Indiana and give the QTH as IN. Since I started DXCC from Indiana years ago, I use the IN station to work new ones (only 5 to go). It's the same rig and antennas that I used to get this far in DXCC. When I do operate from Montana, puny signal that it is, it's for contests and CW Ops events (but no 160 meters here) and I hand out MT as the state and make a few folks happy for a new multiplier (if they can hear me). There's no question where I am in LOTW there's a log for each location, and I keep them separate. A ham checking LOTW for WAS will see our qso in the correct state. If remote operators take a few extra steps so there is no question as to their STATION location, the system works. However, I too have heard from very strong signals on 160 the wrong time of day without / identifiers. I'd guess that these folks would have cheated regardless of ARRL's actions. Mel KJ9C _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
