Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  closed
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  | Resolution:  not a
 Severity:  Normal   |  bug
 Keywords:  nextcloud, migration |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-
Changes (by ln5):

 * status:  new => closed
 * resolution:   => not a bug


Comment:

 Thanks for all the useful feedback. Closing this now.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  nextcloud, migration |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by alsmith):

 Replying to [comment:19 micah]:


 > Hi alsmith,
 >
 > There was a problem with the service, I've fixed it so it should be
 working now, can you try it again?

 I'm confirming that I can now open documents in OnlyOffice. Thanks!

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Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  nextcloud, migration |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by micah):

 Hi alsmith,

 There was a problem with the service, I've fixed it so it should be
 working now, can you try it again?

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Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  nextcloud, migration |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by alsmith):

 Having a new issue when attempting to open NextCloud documents in
 OnlyOffice.

  * Navigate to file, double click to open in OnlyOffice.
  * "Loading document" message spins for several seconds.
  * Receive notification that states, "The file cannot be accessed now."
  * Click "OK," page stays blank.
  * Refresh the page.
  * Receive notification that states, "The document could not be saved.
 Please check connection settings or contact your administrator. When you
 click the ‘OK’ button, you will be prompted to download the document."
  * Click "OK" with the assumption that it will prompt a download--doesn't
 happen, page remains blank.

 I've tried this with four documents so far, all the same.

 I *am* able to download the documents if I navigate to the file > click
 "..." > Download.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  nextcloud, migration |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-
Changes (by alsmith):

 * Attachment "Screen Shot 2019-07-17 at 1.38.09 PM.png" added.

 The document could not be saved

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Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  nextcloud, migration |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-
Changes (by alsmith):

 * Attachment "Screen Shot 2019-07-17 at 1.37.17 PM.png" added.

 The file cannot be accessed now

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Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  nextcloud, migration |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by micah):

 Replying to [comment:16 alsmith]:
 > Replying to [comment:2 arma]:
 >
 > > Replying to [comment:1 alsmith]:
 > >
 > >
 > > > Another issue I'm noticing: When I download a document (.xlxs and
 .docx so far) from NextCloud, I get a many-days-old version of the
 document instead of what is in the collaborative editing version of the
 document.
 > > >
 > > >
 > >
 > > Oh hey, I saw an issue with nc.riseup.net that matches this behavior:
 Gaba pointed me to an xlsx hosted there, and the online version worked
 (after spending a few minutes loading), but the downloaded version was
 just a blank xlsx file. I was confused, but maybe it was giving me the
 many-days-old version, i.e. back when it first started.
 >
 > Haven't been able to replicate this problem yet, but it seems something
 similar but opposite is happening as well, as reported to me by Bekeela:
 >
 >  * I sent Bekeela a link to an xlsx doc. I had created this document
 roughly 15 minutes before sending it to her.
 >
 >  * Half an hour later, Bekeela visited the link and the collaborative
 editing version of the document was blank. She was then served this error
 "The editor version has been updated. The page will be reloaded to apply
 the changes." Nothing happened.
 >
 >  * She had to download, and once she did, the content was available.

 Yeah, this happened to everyone in Tor - it was a result of me updating
 the OnlyOffice software. It seems that whenever the software is updated,
 users have to clear their browser cache before it will work for them. This
 is quite unfortunate, because typically I should be able to update the
 software, and you will just see the new one next time you load it.

 Worse, is the Source fonts I added before are now not available. When I
 tried to re-add them to the new version, it produced an error. So we've
 been working on a fix for this, but it will likely result in having to
 update the software again :o

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Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  nextcloud, migration |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by alsmith):

 Replying to [comment:2 arma]:


 > Replying to [comment:1 alsmith]:
 >
 > > Another issue I'm noticing: When I download a document (.xlxs and
 .docx so far) from NextCloud, I get a many-days-old version of the
 document instead of what is in the collaborative editing version of the
 document.
 > >
 >
 > Oh hey, I saw an issue with nc.riseup.net that matches this behavior:
 Gaba pointed me to an xlsx hosted there, and the online version worked
 (after spending a few minutes loading), but the downloaded version was
 just a blank xlsx file. I was confused, but maybe it was giving me the
 many-days-old version, i.e. back when it first started.

 Haven't been able to replicate this problem yet, but it seems something
 similar but opposite is happening as well, as reported to be by Bekeela:

 - I sent Bekeela a link to an xlsx doc. I had created this document
 roughly 15 minutes before sending it to her.

 - Half an hour later, Bekeela visited the link and the collaborative
 editing version of the document was blank. She was then served this error
 "The editor version has been updated. The page will be reloaded to apply
 the changes." Nothing happened.

 - She had to download, and once she did, the content was available.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  nextcloud, migration |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by alsmith):

 Replying to [comment:14 micah]:


 > Replying to [comment:12 alsmith]:
 >
 > > Replying to [comment:11 micah]:
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > > > Replying to [comment:10 micah]:
 > > >
 > > >
 > > > > Replying to [comment:9 alsmith]:
 > > > >
 > > > > > Thanks for your reply!
 > > > > > Replying to [comment:7 micah]:
 > > > > >
 > > > > > > Replying to [ticket:30869 alsmith]:
 > > > > > > Yes, the Onlyoffice functionality is primarily oriented around
 the collaborative elements. Finishing/printing documents are maybe not as
 refined. Perhaps we can investigate how to get the Tor Project fonts
 available, so this could minimize the problems. Which is the font that is
 used? I can look at what it would take to incorporate that.
 > > > > > >
 > > > > > Fair. Finishing features are less important than the
 collaborative functions. Font is Source Pro (Serif & Sans Serif versions),
 more here: https://styleguide.torproject.org/visuals/#typography.
 > > > > >
 > > > > Ok, I'll see what is involved in adding fonts.
 > > > >
 > > > I've added the Source Pro fonts, see if they work for you!
 > > >
 > >
 > > Tysm! Checked right now, I am not seeing the fonts yet.
 > >
 >
 > So there might be two reasons for this:
 >
 > 1. *maybe* they only show up for new documents? I kind of doubt this...
 but for sure they would require that you reload a document from nextcloud.
 >
 > 2. I do know that your browser cache can impact this, once it has been
 cleared (maybe by restarting the browser), they should show
 >
 > I'm definitely seeing them right now with a new document, when I pull
 down the fonts menu and go down to "Source"

 Cache cleared and font now available in new and old docs. Thank you.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  nextcloud, migration |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by micah):

 Replying to [comment:12 alsmith]:
 > Replying to [comment:11 micah]:
 >
 >
 > > Replying to [comment:10 micah]:
 > >
 > > > Replying to [comment:9 alsmith]:
 > > > > Thanks for your reply!
 > > > > Replying to [comment:7 micah]:
 > > > > > Replying to [ticket:30869 alsmith]:
 > > > > > Yes, the Onlyoffice functionality is primarily oriented around
 the collaborative elements. Finishing/printing documents are maybe not as
 refined. Perhaps we can investigate how to get the Tor Project fonts
 available, so this could minimize the problems. Which is the font that is
 used? I can look at what it would take to incorporate that.
 > > > > Fair. Finishing features are less important than the collaborative
 functions. Font is Source Pro (Serif & Sans Serif versions), more here:
 https://styleguide.torproject.org/visuals/#typography.
 > > > Ok, I'll see what is involved in adding fonts.
 > > I've added the Source Pro fonts, see if they work for you!
 >
 > Tysm! Checked right now, I am not seeing the fonts yet.

 So there might be two reasons for this:

 1. *maybe* they only show up for new documents? I kind of doubt this...
 but for sure they would require that you reload a document from nextcloud.

 2. I do know that your browser cache can impact this, once it has been
 cleared (maybe by restarting the browser), they should show

 I'm definitely seeing them right now with a new document, when I pull down
 the fonts menu and go down to "Source"

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Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  nextcloud, migration |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by alsmith):

 Replying to [comment:10 micah]:


 > Replying to [comment:9 alsmith]:
 >
 > > Thanks for your reply!
 > >
 > > Replying to [comment:7 micah]:
 > >
 > >
 > > > Replying to [ticket:30869 alsmith]:
 > > >
 > > >
 > > > > * No ability to tag other accounts in comments that I can see or
 find. In my eyes, this is the biggest roadblock. Being able to work
 asynchronously on a document, tagging others in spots where their input is
 needed, knowing they will receive notifications, has been key to working
 across time zones with lots of people against deadlines.
 > > > >
 > > > >
 > > > This would be a nice feature. The only way I know that you can
 somewhat get this kind of functionality is to agree as a group that
 comments are things that must be resolved and that people should be
 looking through comments for their names to find ones that they need to
 resolve. Once they've resolved them, then the comment can be closed by
 clicking the "Resolve" button if it was solved.
 > > >
 > >
 > > I understand that this isn't possible with OnlyOffice -- just
 elaborating on this point for the record. Coming to a consensus about how
 to resolve and labeled could be possible, although cumbersome. After
 writing or documenting rules for resolving comments, I can see the need
 for me (or other authors) to notify others every time there's a new
 comment -- which is not simple to keep track of in large projects with
 many comments and edits. This will be logistically quite difficult (and
 time-consuming) for those who are authoring or managing a document.
 > >
 > I will look around for an issue related to this upstream, and if there
 is not one, I'll create one so we can track the feature.

 Thank you!

 > > > > * Speed. For me, !OnlyOffice docs take 2-3 minutes to load per
 file. Working on one or two small documents, this is doable. For huge
 projects with multiple long/large documents, this may become
 difficult/impossible to manage.
 > > > >
 > >
 > >
 > > > That is interesting, I haven't experienced that. I just opened a
 document, and it took 5 seconds between clicking on it in nextcloud, and
 it being editable in OnlyOffice. I'm really interested in exploring this
 delay more to figure out what is causing it to take so long for you. Are
 you experiencing this for all document types, or just certain ones... do
 you experience it only with larger documents?
 > > >
 > >
 > > Speed is an issue with all documents, all types, all sizes. I'd say 1
 out of 5 times it's so slow it times out. I use Tor Browser exclusively
 when accessing NextCloud. Maybe that's the issue; I'll test and report
 back.
 > >
 >
 > Ok, yeah... when using tor you are going to have very different
 latencies in play that will make it hard to evaluate if the issue is
 OnlyOffice itself. The server runs out of Seattle, so it should be very
 fast for you to connect to it over the "clearnet". I'd be interested to
 hear your experiences after you've tried it without Tor Browser.

 OK, yes, after using NC through other browser it's significantly faster
 and I'm not getting that time out issue. Hooray!

 > > > > * No ability to do a word/character count that I can find.
 Critical for grants, most have word or character count requirements.
 > > > >
 > > > >
 > > > It is possible to do this, but I think it could be more 'easy'. The
 way you can do this is by clicking the "File" button on the left (Alt+F),
 its a little icon that looks like a document and is above the search
 spyglass. Then click "Document Info..." and you will get the counts you
 are looking for.
 > > >
 > > > This isn't ideal, and the OnlyOffice developers are aware of this
 enhancement request. The idea would be to put it in the status bar at the
 bottom, where it tells you the page number you are on.
 > > >
 > >
 > > Yes -- sorry, I should have been more clear. You can get word and
 character counts for the entire document, but I can't select a paragraph
 and get the word count or character count of that section, which is what I
 use frequently. I've been writing in !OnlyOffice then copy/pasting chunks
 of 

Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  nextcloud, migration |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by alsmith):

 Replying to [comment:11 micah]:


 > Replying to [comment:10 micah]:
 >
 > > Replying to [comment:9 alsmith]:
 > > > Thanks for your reply!
 > > > Replying to [comment:7 micah]:
 > > > > Replying to [ticket:30869 alsmith]:
 > > > > Yes, the Onlyoffice functionality is primarily oriented around the
 collaborative elements. Finishing/printing documents are maybe not as
 refined. Perhaps we can investigate how to get the Tor Project fonts
 available, so this could minimize the problems. Which is the font that is
 used? I can look at what it would take to incorporate that.
 > > > Fair. Finishing features are less important than the collaborative
 functions. Font is Source Pro (Serif & Sans Serif versions), more here:
 https://styleguide.torproject.org/visuals/#typography.
 > > Ok, I'll see what is involved in adding fonts.
 > I've added the Source Pro fonts, see if they work for you!

 Tysm! Checked right now, I am not seeing the fonts yet.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  nextcloud, migration |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by micah):

 Replying to [comment:10 micah]:
 > Replying to [comment:9 alsmith]:
 > > Thanks for your reply!
 > >
 > > Replying to [comment:7 micah]:
 > >
 > > > Replying to [ticket:30869 alsmith]:
 > > > Yes, the Onlyoffice functionality is primarily oriented around the
 collaborative elements. Finishing/printing documents are maybe not as
 refined. Perhaps we can investigate how to get the Tor Project fonts
 available, so this could minimize the problems. Which is the font that is
 used? I can look at what it would take to incorporate that.
 > >
 > > Fair. Finishing features are less important than the collaborative
 functions. Font is Source Pro (Serif & Sans Serif versions), more here:
 https://styleguide.torproject.org/visuals/#typography.
 >
 > Ok, I'll see what is involved in adding fonts.

 I've added the Source Pro fonts, see if they work for you!

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Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  nextcloud, migration |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by micah):

 Replying to [comment:9 alsmith]:
 > Thanks for your reply!
 >
 > Replying to [comment:7 micah]:
 >
 > > Replying to [ticket:30869 alsmith]:
 > >
 > > > * No ability to tag other accounts in comments that I can see or
 find. In my eyes, this is the biggest roadblock. Being able to work
 asynchronously on a document, tagging others in spots where their input is
 needed, knowing they will receive notifications, has been key to working
 across time zones with lots of people against deadlines.
 > > >
 > > This would be a nice feature. The only way I know that you can
 somewhat get this kind of functionality is to agree as a group that
 comments are things that must be resolved and that people should be
 looking through comments for their names to find ones that they need to
 resolve. Once they've resolved them, then the comment can be closed by
 clicking the "Resolve" button if it was solved.
 >
 > I understand that this isn't possible with OnlyOffice -- just
 elaborating on this point for the record. Coming to a consensus about how
 to resolve and labeled could be possible, although cumbersome. After
 writing or documenting rules for resolving comments, I can see the need
 for me (or other authors) to notify others every time there's a new
 comment -- which is not simple to keep track of in large projects with
 many comments and edits. This will be logistically quite difficult (and
 time-consuming) for those who are authoring or managing a document.

 I will look around for an issue related to this upstream, and if there is
 not one, I'll create one so we can track the feature.

 > > > * Speed. For me, !OnlyOffice docs take 2-3 minutes to load per file.
 Working on one or two small documents, this is doable. For huge projects
 with multiple long/large documents, this may become difficult/impossible
 to manage.
 >
 > > That is interesting, I haven't experienced that. I just opened a
 document, and it took 5 seconds between clicking on it in nextcloud, and
 it being editable in OnlyOffice. I'm really interested in exploring this
 delay more to figure out what is causing it to take so long for you. Are
 you experiencing this for all document types, or just certain ones... do
 you experience it only with larger documents?
 >
 > Speed is an issue with all documents, all types, all sizes. I'd say 1
 out of 5 times it's so slow it times out. I use Tor Browser exclusively
 when accessing NextCloud. Maybe that's the issue; I'll test and report
 back.

 Ok, yeah... when using tor you are going to have very different latencies
 in play that will make it hard to evaluate if the issue is OnlyOffice
 itself. The server runs out of Seattle, so it should be very fast for you
 to connect to it over the "clearnet". I'd be interested to hear your
 experiences after you've tried it without Tor Browser.

 > > > * To finalize documents for printing or saving to PDF, I need to
 download and then edit again in Word because certain features are not
 available, the biggest being that the Tor Project’s fonts are not
 supported/available.
 > > >
 > > >
 > > Yes, the Onlyoffice functionality is primarily oriented around the
 collaborative elements. Finishing/printing documents are maybe not as
 refined. Perhaps we can investigate how to get the Tor Project fonts
 available, so this could minimize the problems. Which is the font that is
 used? I can look at what it would take to incorporate that.
 >
 > Fair. Finishing features are less important than the collaborative
 functions. Font is Source Pro (Serif & Sans Serif versions), more here:
 https://styleguide.torproject.org/visuals/#typography.

 Ok, I'll see what is involved in adding fonts.

 > > > * No ability to do a word/character count that I can find. Critical
 for grants, most have word or character count requirements.
 > > >
 > > It is possible to do this, but I think it could be more 'easy'. The
 way you can do this is by clicking the "File" button on the left (Alt+F),
 its a little icon that looks like a document and is above the search
 spyglass. Then click "Document Info..." and you will get 

Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  nextcloud, migration |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by alsmith):

 Thanks for your reply!

 Replying to [comment:7 micah]:

 > Replying to [ticket:30869 alsmith]:
 >
 > > * No ability to tag other accounts in comments that I can see or find.
 In my eyes, this is the biggest roadblock. Being able to work
 asynchronously on a document, tagging others in spots where their input is
 needed, knowing they will receive notifications, has been key to working
 across time zones with lots of people against deadlines.
 > >
 > This would be a nice feature. The only way I know that you can somewhat
 get this kind of functionality is to agree as a group that comments are
 things that must be resolved and that people should be looking through
 comments for their names to find ones that they need to resolve. Once
 they've resolved them, then the comment can be closed by clicking the
 "Resolve" button if it was solved.

 I understand that this isn't possible with OnlyOffice -- just elaborating
 on this point for the record. Coming to a consensus about how to resolve
 and labeled could be possible, although cumbersome. After writing or
 documenting rules for resolving comments, I can see the need for me (or
 other authors) to notify others every time there's a new comment -- which
 is not simple to keep track of in large projects with many comments and
 edits. This will be logistically quite difficult (and time-consuming) for
 those who are authoring or managing a document.

 > > * Speed. For me, !OnlyOffice docs take 2-3 minutes to load per file.
 Working on one or two small documents, this is doable. For huge projects
 with multiple long/large documents, this may become difficult/impossible
 to manage.

 > That is interesting, I haven't experienced that. I just opened a
 document, and it took 5 seconds between clicking on it in nextcloud, and
 it being editable in OnlyOffice. I'm really interested in exploring this
 delay more to figure out what is causing it to take so long for you. Are
 you experiencing this for all document types, or just certain ones... do
 you experience it only with larger documents?

 Speed is an issue with all documents, all types, all sizes. I'd say 1 out
 of 5 times it's so slow it times out. I use Tor Browser exclusively when
 accessing NextCloud. Maybe that's the issue; I'll test and report back.

 > > * To finalize documents for printing or saving to PDF, I need to
 download and then edit again in Word because certain features are not
 available, the biggest being that the Tor Project’s fonts are not
 supported/available.
 > >
 > >
 > Yes, the Onlyoffice functionality is primarily oriented around the
 collaborative elements. Finishing/printing documents are maybe not as
 refined. Perhaps we can investigate how to get the Tor Project fonts
 available, so this could minimize the problems. Which is the font that is
 used? I can look at what it would take to incorporate that.

 Fair. Finishing features are less important than the collaborative
 functions. Font is Source Pro (Serif & Sans Serif versions), more here:
 https://styleguide.torproject.org/visuals/#typography.

 > > * No ability to do a word/character count that I can find. Critical
 for grants, most have word or character count requirements.
 > >
 > It is possible to do this, but I think it could be more 'easy'. The way
 you can do this is by clicking the "File" button on the left (Alt+F), its
 a little icon that looks like a document and is above the search spyglass.
 Then click "Document Info..." and you will get the counts you are looking
 for.
 >
 > This isn't ideal, and the OnlyOffice developers are aware of this
 enhancement request. The idea would be to put it in the status bar at the
 bottom, where it tells you the page number you are on.

 Yes -- sorry, I should have been more clear. You can get word and
 character counts for the entire document, but I can't select a paragraph
 and get the word count or character count of that section, which is what I
 use frequently. I've been writing in !OnlyOffice then copy/pasting chunks
 of text into Word, getting the word count, editing it, and shifting it
 back to 

Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  nextcloud, migration |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by alsmith):

 Replying to [comment:6 micah]:


 > Replying to [comment:2 arma]:
 >
 > > Replying to [comment:1 alsmith]:
 > >
 > > > Another issue I'm noticing: When I download a document (.xlxs and
 .docx so far) from NextCloud, I get a many-days-old version of the
 document instead of what is in the collaborative editing version of the
 document.
 > > >
 > >
 > > Oh hey, I saw an issue with nc.riseup.net that matches this behavior:
 Gaba pointed me to an xlsx hosted there, and the online version worked
 (after spending a few minutes loading), but the downloaded version was
 just a blank xlsx file. I was confused, but maybe it was giving me the
 many-days-old version, i.e. back when it first started.
 > >
 > There is a setting for expiring idle sessions after a certain amount of
 time. This helps making sure the document will not hang indefinitely in
 the document server if someone leaves a tab open. We are using 15 minutes.
 >
 > Many days old is much older than it should be, and I have not been able
 to reproduce this. Can you provide me with an example when you see it so I
 can investigate?

 I will let you know when this happens again and record the details. I
 haven't been able to find a pattern at the moment.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  nextcloud, migration |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by micah):

 Replying to [ticket:30869 alsmith]:
 > I'm leaving some feedback regarding the collaborative document editing
 features in Nextcloud, specifically the [wiki:OpenOffice OnlyOffice]
 features.

 Thanks for the feedback!

 >  * No ability to tag other accounts in comments that I can see or find.
 In my eyes, this is the biggest roadblock. Being able to work
 asynchronously on a document, tagging others in spots where their input is
 needed, knowing they will receive notifications, has been key to working
 across time zones with lots of people against deadlines.

 This would be a nice feature. The only way I know that you can somewhat
 get this kind of functionality is to agree as a group that comments are
 things that must be resolved and that people should be looking through
 comments for their names to find ones that they need to resolve. Once
 they've resolved them, then the comment can be closed by clicking the
 "Resolve" button if it was solved.

 >  * Speed. For me, !OnlyOffice docs take 2-3 minutes to load per file.
 Working on one or two small documents, this is doable. For huge projects
 with multiple long/large documents, this may become difficult/impossible
 to manage.

 That is interesting, I haven't experienced that. I just opened a document,
 and it took 5 seconds between clicking on it in nextcloud, and it being
 editable in OnlyOffice. I'm really interested in exploring this delay more
 to figure out what is causing it to take so long for you. Are you
 experiencing this for all document types, or just certain ones... do you
 experience it only with larger documents?

 >  * To finalize documents for printing or saving to PDF, I need to
 download and then edit again in Word because certain features are not
 available, the biggest being that the Tor Project’s fonts are not
 supported/available.

 Yes, the Onlyoffice functionality is primarily oriented around the
 collaborative elements. Finishing/printing documents are maybe not as
 refined. Perhaps we can investigate how to get the Tor Project fonts
 available, so this could minimize the problems. Which is the font that is
 used? I can look at what it would take to incorporate that.

 >  * No ability to do a word/character count that I can find. Critical for
 grants, most have word or character count requirements.

 It is possible to do this, but I think it could be more 'easy'. The way
 you can do this is by clicking the "File" button on the left (Alt+F), its
 a little icon that looks like a document and is above the search spyglass.
 Then click "Document Info..." and you will get the counts you are looking
 for.

 This isn't ideal, and the OnlyOffice developers are aware of this
 enhancement request. The idea would be to put it in the status bar at the
 bottom, where it tells you the page number you are on.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  nextcloud, migration |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by micah):

 Replying to [comment:2 arma]:
 > Replying to [comment:1 alsmith]:
 > > Another issue I'm noticing: When I download a document (.xlxs and
 .docx so far) from NextCloud, I get a many-days-old version of the
 document instead of what is in the collaborative editing version of the
 document.
 >
 > Oh hey, I saw an issue with nc.riseup.net that matches this behavior:
 Gaba pointed me to an xlsx hosted there, and the online version worked
 (after spending a few minutes loading), but the downloaded version was
 just a blank xlsx file. I was confused, but maybe it was giving me the
 many-days-old version, i.e. back when it first started.

 The way this works, as is detailed in the wiki page, is as follows:

 The Onlyoffice document server copies the document from nextcloud, so
 while the document is "open" it will differ from the version stored in
 nextcloud (that is, is if someone tries to download from nextcloud she
 will see a different version).

 The document is only stored back in nextcloud after all editing sessions
 have finished. That means that while there's a session open (either active
 or idle) the versions will differ, and if either the document server or
 the connection between nextcloud and document server break for some reason
 it is possible that there will be data loss.

 There is a setting for expiring idle sessions after a certain amount of
 time. This helps making sure the document will not hang indefinitely in
 the document server if someone leaves a tab open. We are using 15 minutes.

 Many days old is much older than it should be, and I have not been able to
 reproduce this. Can you provide me with an example when you see it so I
 can investigate?

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Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  nextcloud, migration |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-
Changes (by gaba):

 * keywords:   => nextcloud, migration


Comment:

 I agree that this are all things that should be addressed before starting
 using nextcloud at Tor.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-
Changes (by gaba):

 * priority:  Low => Medium


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Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Low  |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-
Changes (by gaba):

 * cc: gaba (added)


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Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Low  |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by arma):

 Replying to [comment:1 alsmith]:
 > Another issue I'm noticing: When I download a document (.xlxs and .docx
 so far) from NextCloud, I get a many-days-old version of the document
 instead of what is in the collaborative editing version of the document.

 Oh hey, I saw an issue with nc.riseup.net that matches this behavior: Gaba
 pointed me to an xlsx hosted there, and the online version worked (after
 spending a few minutes loading), but the downloaded version was just a
 blank xlsx file. I was confused, but maybe it was giving me the many-days-
 old version, i.e. back when it first started.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:
 |  nextcloud-admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Low  |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #29415   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by alsmith):

 Another issue I'm noticing: When I download a document (.xlxs and .docx so
 far) from NextCloud, I get a many-days-old version of the document instead
 of what is in the collaborative editing version of the document.

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[tor-bugs] #30869 [Internal Services/Service - nextcloud]: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#30869: [Nextcloud] Feedback re: collaborative document editing
-+-
 Reporter:  alsmith  |  Owner:  nextcloud-
 |  admin@…
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Low  |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service -  |Version:
  nextcloud  |
 Severity:  Normal   |   Keywords:
Actual Points:   |  Parent ID:  #29415
   Points:   |   Reviewer:
  Sponsor:   |
-+-
 I'm leaving some feedback regarding the collaborative document editing
 features in Nextcloud, specifically the [wiki:OpenOffice OnlyOffice]
 features.

 I know that many of these things are not necessarily changes that can or
 will be made, but I want to be transparent about how this tool is working
 for me.

 I can see that the Grants group will likely need to lean on other
 collaborative tools in order to work on projects that are large and
 complex (grant requests that are many pages long with multiple documents)
 for the following reasons:

  * No ability to tag other accounts in comments that I can see or find. In
 my eyes, this is the biggest roadblock. Being able to work asynchronously
 on a document, tagging others in spots where their input is needed,
 knowing they will receive notifications, has been key to working across
 time zones with lots of people against deadlines.

  * Speed. For me, !OnlyOffice docs take 2-3 minutes to load per file.
 Working on one or two small documents, this is doable. For huge projects
 with multiple long/large documents, this may become difficult/impossible
 to manage.

  * To finalize documents for printing or saving to PDF, I need to download
 and then edit again in Word because certain features are not available,
 the biggest being that the Tor Project’s fonts are not
 supported/available.

  * No ability to do a word/character count that I can find. Critical for
 grants, most have word or character count requirements.

 I'm happy to have a convo, test more things, be told that the features I
 want actually exist and I've missed them ;D!

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