Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  gaba
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  assigned
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by gaba):

 Thanks! We will discuss it in the next week.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  gaba
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  assigned
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-
Changes (by anarcat):

 * owner:  hiro => gaba


Comment:

 gaba, the budget is ready in
 https://help.torproject.org/tsa/howto/conference/#Cost

 do not send to funders without a final review on my part please.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  hiro
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  assigned
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-
Changes (by anarcat):

 * owner:  (none) => hiro
 * status:  needs_revision => assigned


Comment:

 i made cost estimates in:

 https://help.torproject.org/tsa/howto/conference/#Cost

 i asked hiro to take a look, we'll come back with more definite numbers
 hopefully tomorrow or thursday.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Old description:

> With the rise of the coronavirus, even Tor, which generally works
> remotely, is affected because we were still having physical meetings from
> time to time, and we'll have to find other ways to deal with this.
>
> This ticket aims at establishing the problem space ("what we're trying to
> solve") and evaluate possible solutions ("what could fix it"). we could
> follow the sysadmin documentation template:
>
> https://help.torproject.org/tsa/howto/template/#Discussion
>
> which establishes the following criterion:
>
> = Goals
> == Must have
>
>  * video/audio communication for a group of people of approx 2-10 people
>  * specifically, work session for teams internal to TPI
>  * also, training sessions for people *outside* of TPI
>  * chat fallback
>  * have a mobile app
>  * allow people to call in by regular phone
>  * a way for one person to mute themselves
>  * long term maintenance costs covered
>
> == Nice to have
>
>  * Reliable video support. Video chat is nice, but most video chat
> systems usually require all participants to have video off otherwise the
> communication is sensibly lagged.
>  * usable to host a Tor meeting, which means more load (because possibly
> > 20 people) and more tools (like slide sharing or whiteboarding)
>  * respecting our privacy, peer to peer encryption or at least encrypted
> with keys we control
>  * free and open source software
>  * tor support
>
> == Non-goals
>

> = Approvals required
>
> = Proposed solution
>
> = Cost
>
> = Alternatives considered
>
> == mumble
>
> === features
>
>  * audio-only
>  * moderation
>  * multiple rooms
>  * native client for Linux, Windows, Mac, iOS, Android
>  * web interface https://github.com/Johni0702/mumble-web
>  * chat
>  * dial-in, unmaintained, might be broken:
> https://github.com/slomkowski/mumsi
>
> === installation
>
> there are two different puppet modules to setup mumble:
>
> ​https://github.com/voxpupuli/puppet-mumble
> ​https://0xacab.org/riseup-puppet-recipes/mumble
>
> still need to be evaluated, but i'd be tempted to use the voxpupuli
> module because they tend to be better tested and it's more recent
>
> == jitsi
>
> === installation
>
> ansible roles: ​https://code.immerda.ch/o/ansible-jitsi-meet/
> ​https://github.com/UdelaRInterior/ansible-role-jitsi-meet
>
> puppet module: https://gitlab.com/shared-puppet-modules-group/jitsimeet
>
> there's also a docker container and (messy) debian packages
>
> prometheus exporter: ​https://github.com/systemli/prometheus-jitsi-meet-
> exporter
>
> == Nextcloud
>
> systemli is using this ansible role to install coturn:
> ​https://github.com/systemli/ansible-role-coturn
>
> == BBB
>
> features:
>
>  * audio, video conferencing support
>  * [http://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html#accessibility
> accesssible] with live closed captionning and support for screen readers
>  * whiteboarding and "slideshow" mode (to show PDF presentations)
>  * moderation tools
>  * chat box
>  * embedded etherpad
>  * dial-in support with Freeswitch
>  * should scale better than jitsi and NC, at least
> [http://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html#how-many-simultaneous-
> users-can-bigbluebutton-support according to their FAQ]: "As a rule of
> thumb, if your BigBlueButton server meets the minimum requirements, the
> server should be able to support 150 simultaneous users, such as 3
> simultaneous sessions of 50 users, 6 x 25, etc. We recommend no single
> sessions exceed one hundred (100) users."
>
> i tested an instance setup by a fellow sysadmin and we had trouble after
> a while, even with two people, doing a screenshare. it's unclear what the
> cause of the problem was: maybe the server was overloaded. more testing
> required.
>
> === installation
>
> [https://docs.bigbluebutton.org/2.2/install.html based on unofficial
> Debian packages], requires Freeswitch for dialin, which doesn't behave
> well under virtualization (so would need a bare metal server). Requires
> Ubuntu 16.04, [https://github.com/bigbluebutton/bigbluebutton/issues/8978
> packages are closed source] (!),
> 

Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by anarcat):

 feedback from one of the commercial providers (mconf), paraphrased:

  1. they don't provide support for BBB directly, but instead on
 https://elos.vc/
  2. they provide a free trial with a special 15-user limit because of
 covid-19 (was previously 4)
  3. their premium plan is charged by access per month, with 4$ per person
 per month, with a minimum of 60$ per month (15 people) and an upper limit
 of 100 simultaneous users

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by anarcat):

 Notes from the jitsi meeting this morning

 Budget request comes from a 3 year project in africa and latin america.
 It's part of the 4th phase, to support for partners online

 Tor has been doing training in about 11 countries, but has been trying to
 transition into partners on the ground, for them to do the training. Then
 the pandemic started and orgs are moving online for training. We reached
 out to partners to see how they're doing it. Physical meetings are not
 going to happen. We have a year to figure out what to do with the funder
 and partners. Two weeks ago gus talked with trainers in brazil, tried
 jitsi which works well but facing problems for trainings (cannot mute
 people, cannot share presentations). They tried BBB and it's definitely
 better than Jitsi for training as it's more like an online classroom.

 The requirements we discussed:

  * host partner organizations in a private area in our infrastructure
  * number of participants: 14 organisations with one training per month,
 max 4 per month, about 14-15 people per session, less than 20
  * make a new proposal for the next phase (starting in june) in two weeks
  * self-hosted seems like an important requirement as the idea is this
 provides a trusted platform

 Other alternatives are not completely eliminated: we should also provide
 estimates on jitsi and other platforms we (TPA) are considering. And if we
 strongly oppose hosting a platform, this should be said as well.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by anarcat):

 Replying to [comment:32 anarcat]:
 > The numbers I have right now in terms of labour and hardware
 requirements are:
 >
 >  * 2 vCPU and 4GB ram
 >  * "1 day of work"

 For the record, I got other feedback from people saying that this was
 severely under-estimated. The setup, in particular, can take many days.
 Looking at the setup instructions and Ansible manifest, I can confirm we
 would definitely have... challenges in making it work in our
 infrastructure, if only because of Ubuntu and let's encrypt...

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Old description:

> With the rise of the coronavirus, even Tor, which generally works
> remotely, is affected because we were still having physical meetings from
> time to time, and we'll have to find other ways to deal with this.
>
> This ticket aims at establishing the problem space ("what we're trying to
> solve") and evaluate possible solutions ("what could fix it"). we could
> follow the sysadmin documentation template:
>
> https://help.torproject.org/tsa/howto/template/#Discussion
>
> which establishes the following criterion:
>
> = Goals
> == Must have
>
>  * video/audio communication for a group of people of approx 2-10 people
>  * specifically, work session for teams internal to TPI
>  * chat fallback
>  * have a mobile app
>  * allow people to call in by regular phone
>  * a way for one person to mute themselves
>  * long term maintenance costs covered
>
> == Nice to have
>
>  * Reliable video support. Video chat is nice, but most video chat
> systems usually require all participants to have video off otherwise the
> communication is sensibly lagged.
>  * usable to host a Tor meeting, which means more load (because possibly
> > 20 people) and more tools (like slide sharing or whiteboarding)
>  * respecting our privacy, peer to peer encryption or at least encrypted
> with keys we control
>  * free and open source software
>  * tor support
>
> == Non-goals
>

> = Approvals required
>
> = Proposed solution
>
> = Cost
>
> = Alternatives considered
>
> == mumble
>
> === features
>
>  * audio-only
>  * moderation
>  * multiple rooms
>  * native client for Linux, Windows, Mac, iOS, Android
>  * web interface https://github.com/Johni0702/mumble-web
>  * chat
>  * dial-in, unmaintained, might be broken:
> https://github.com/slomkowski/mumsi
>
> === installation
>
> there are two different puppet modules to setup mumble:
>
> ​https://github.com/voxpupuli/puppet-mumble
> ​https://0xacab.org/riseup-puppet-recipes/mumble
>
> still need to be evaluated, but i'd be tempted to use the voxpupuli
> module because they tend to be better tested and it's more recent
>
> == jitsi
>
> === installation
>
> ansible roles: ​https://code.immerda.ch/o/ansible-jitsi-meet/
> ​https://github.com/UdelaRInterior/ansible-role-jitsi-meet
>
> puppet module: https://gitlab.com/shared-puppet-modules-group/jitsimeet
>
> there's also a docker container and (messy) debian packages
>
> prometheus exporter: ​https://github.com/systemli/prometheus-jitsi-meet-
> exporter
>
> == Nextcloud
>
> systemli is using this ansible role to install coturn:
> ​https://github.com/systemli/ansible-role-coturn
>
> == BBB
>
> features:
>
>  * audio, video conferencing support
>  * [http://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html#accessibility
> accesssible] with live closed captionning and support for screen readers
>  * whiteboarding and "slideshow" mode (to show PDF presentations)
>  * moderation tools
>  * chat box
>  * embedded etherpad
>  * dial-in support with Freeswitch
>  * should scale better than jitsi and NC, at least
> [http://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html#how-many-simultaneous-
> users-can-bigbluebutton-support according to their FAQ]: "As a rule of
> thumb, if your BigBlueButton server meets the minimum requirements, the
> server should be able to support 150 simultaneous users, such as 3
> simultaneous sessions of 50 users, 6 x 25, etc. We recommend no single
> sessions exceed one hundred (100) users."
>
> i tested an instance setup by a fellow sysadmin and we had trouble after
> a while, even with two people, doing a screenshare. it's unclear what the
> cause of the problem was: maybe the server was overloaded. more testing
> required.
>
> === installation
>
> [https://docs.bigbluebutton.org/2.2/install.html based on unofficial
> Debian packages], requires Freeswitch for dialin, which doesn't behave
> well under virtualization (so would need a bare metal server). Requires
> Ubuntu 16.04, [https://github.com/bigbluebutton/bigbluebutton/issues/8978
> packages are closed source] (!),
> [https://github.com/bigbluebutton/bigbluebutton/issues/8861 doesn't
> support Debian] or
> 

Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Old description:

> With the rise of the coronavirus, even Tor, which generally works
> remotely, is affected because we were still having physical meetings from
> time to time, and we'll have to find other ways to deal with this.
>
> This ticket aims at establishing the problem space ("what we're trying to
> solve") and evaluate possible solutions ("what could fix it"). we could
> follow the sysadmin documentation template:
>
> https://help.torproject.org/tsa/howto/template/#Discussion
>
> which establishes the following criterion:
>
> = Goals
> == Must have
>
>  * video/audio communication for a group of people of approx 2-10 people
>  * specifically, work session for teams internal to TPI
>  * chat fallback
>  * have a mobile app
>  * allow people to call in by regular phone
>  * a way for one person to mute themselves
>  * long term maintenance costs covered
>
> == Nice to have
>
>  * Reliable video support. Video chat is nice, but most video chat
> systems usually require all participants to have video off otherwise the
> communication is sensibly lagged.
>  * usable to host a Tor meeting, which means more load (because possibly
> > 20 people) and more tools (like slide sharing or whiteboarding)
>  * respecting our privacy, peer to peer encryption or at least encrypted
> with keys we control
>  * free and open source software
>  * tor support
>
> == Non-goals
>

> = Approvals required
>
> = Proposed solution
>
> = Cost
>
> = Alternatives considered
>
> == mumble
>
> === features
>
>  * audio-only
>  * moderation
>  * multiple rooms
>  * native client for Linux, Windows, Mac, iOS, Android
>  * web interface https://github.com/Johni0702/mumble-web
>  * chat
>  * dial-in, unmaintained, might be broken:
> https://github.com/slomkowski/mumsi
>
> === installation
>
> there are two different puppet modules to setup mumble:
>
> ​https://github.com/voxpupuli/puppet-mumble
> ​https://0xacab.org/riseup-puppet-recipes/mumble
>
> still need to be evaluated, but i'd be tempted to use the voxpupuli
> module because they tend to be better tested and it's more recent
>
> == jitsi
>
> === installation
>
> ansible roles: ​https://code.immerda.ch/o/ansible-jitsi-meet/
> ​https://github.com/UdelaRInterior/ansible-role-jitsi-meet
>
> puppet module: https://gitlab.com/shared-puppet-modules-group/jitsimeet
>
> there's also a docker container and (messy) debian packages
>
> prometheus exporter: ​https://github.com/systemli/prometheus-jitsi-meet-
> exporter
>
> == Nextcloud
>
> systemli is using this ansible role to install coturn:
> ​https://github.com/systemli/ansible-role-coturn
>
> == BBB
>
> features:
>
>  * audio, video conferencing support
>  * [http://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html#accessibility
> accesssible] with live closed captionning and support for screen readers
>  * whiteboarding and "slideshow" mode (to show PDF presentations)
>  * moderation tools
>  * chat box
>  * embedded etherpad
>  * dial-in support with Freeswitch
>  * should scale better than jitsi and NC, at least
> [http://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html#how-many-simultaneous-
> users-can-bigbluebutton-support according to their FAQ]: "As a rule of
> thumb, if your BigBlueButton server meets the minimum requirements, the
> server should be able to support 150 simultaneous users, such as 3
> simultaneous sessions of 50 users, 6 x 25, etc. We recommend no single
> sessions exceed one hundred (100) users."
>
> i tested an instance setup by a fellow sysadmin and we had trouble after
> a while, even with two people, doing a screenshare. it's unclear what the
> cause of the problem was: maybe the server was overloaded. more testing
> required.
>
> === installation
>
> [https://docs.bigbluebutton.org/2.2/install.html based on unofficial
> Debian packages], requires Freeswitch for dialin, which doesn't behave
> well under virtualization (so would need a bare metal server). Requires
> Ubuntu 16.04, [https://github.com/bigbluebutton/bigbluebutton/issues/8978
> packages are closed source] (!),
> [https://github.com/bigbluebutton/bigbluebutton/issues/8861 doesn't
> support Debian] or
> 

Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Old description:

> With the rise of the coronavirus, even Tor, which generally works
> remotely, is affected because we were still having physical meetings from
> time to time, and we'll have to find other ways to deal with this.
>
> This ticket aims at establishing the problem space ("what we're trying to
> solve") and evaluate possible solutions ("what could fix it"). we could
> follow the sysadmin documentation template:
>
> https://help.torproject.org/tsa/howto/template/#Discussion
>
> which establishes the following criterion:
>
> = Goals
> == Must have
>
>  * video/audio communication for a group of people of approx 2-10 people
>  * specifically, work session for teams internal to TPI
>  * chat fallback
>  * have a mobile app
>  * allow people to call in by regular phone
>  * a way for one person to mute themselves
>  * long term maintenance costs covered
>
> == Nice to have
>
>  * Reliable video support. Video chat is nice, but most video chat
> systems usually require all participants to have video off otherwise the
> communication is sensibly lagged.
>  * usable to host a Tor meeting, which means more load (because possibly
> > 20 people) and more tools (like slide sharing or whiteboarding)
>  * respecting our privacy, peer to peer encryption or at least encrypted
> with keys we control
>  * free and open source software
>  * tor support
>
> == Non-goals
>

> = Approvals required
>
> = Proposed solution
>
> = Cost
>
> = Alternatives considered
>
> == mumble
>
> === features
>
>  * audio-only
>  * moderation
>  * multiple rooms
>  * native client for Linux, Windows, Mac, iOS, Android
>  * web interface https://github.com/Johni0702/mumble-web
>  * chat
>  * dial-in, unmaintained, might be broken:
> https://github.com/slomkowski/mumsi
>
> === installation
>
> there are two different puppet modules to setup mumble:
>
> ​https://github.com/voxpupuli/puppet-mumble
> ​https://0xacab.org/riseup-puppet-recipes/mumble
>
> still need to be evaluated, but i'd be tempted to use the voxpupuli
> module because they tend to be better tested and it's more recent
>
> == jitsi
>
> === installation
>
> ansible roles: ​https://code.immerda.ch/o/ansible-jitsi-meet/
> ​https://github.com/UdelaRInterior/ansible-role-jitsi-meet
>
> puppet module: https://gitlab.com/shared-puppet-modules-group/jitsimeet
>
> there's also a docker container and (messy) debian packages
>
> prometheus exporter: ​https://github.com/systemli/prometheus-jitsi-meet-
> exporter
>
> == Nextcloud
>
> systemli is using this ansible role to install coturn:
> ​https://github.com/systemli/ansible-role-coturn
>
> == BBB
>
> features:
>
>  * audio, video conferencing support
>  * [http://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html#accessibility
> accesssible] with live closed captionning and support for screen readers
>  * whiteboarding and "slideshow" mode (to show PDF presentations)
>  * moderation tools
>  * chat box
>  * embedded etherpad
>  * dial-in support with Freeswitch
>  * should scale better than jitsi and NC, at least
> [http://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html#how-many-simultaneous-
> users-can-bigbluebutton-support according to their FAQ]: "As a rule of
> thumb, if your BigBlueButton server meets the minimum requirements, the
> server should be able to support 150 simultaneous users, such as 3
> simultaneous sessions of 50 users, 6 x 25, etc. We recommend no single
> sessions exceed one hundred (100) users."
>
> i tested an instance setup by a fellow sysadmin and we had trouble after
> a while, even with two people, doing a screenshare. it's unclear what the
> cause of the problem was: maybe the server was overloaded. more testing
> required.
>
> === installation
>
> [https://docs.bigbluebutton.org/2.2/install.html based on unofficial
> Debian packages], requires Freeswitch for dialin, which doesn't behave
> well under virtualization (so would need a bare metal server).

New description:

 With the rise of the coronavirus, even Tor, which generally works
 remotely, is affected because we were still having physical meetings from
 time to time, and we'll have to find other ways to 

Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by anarcat):

 also, on linux jitsi eats CPU like crazy, apparently because it doesn't do
 hardware acceleration. this reddit thread has some more information:

 
https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/fxcyyw/jitsi_meet_features_update_april_2020/

 important quotes:

 > I've noticed high cpu usage on Linux side due to no hardware
 acceleration. Haven't noticed it in the windows side
 >
 > Chrome and Firefox don't have hardware acceleration in Linux unless you
 are running a patched version of chromium with va-api added.
 >
 > It was supposed to be enabled in Firefox 75 when using Wayland.
 >
 > To see if things would be hardware accelerated you could play a YouTube
 video 4k and see how the CPU is spking vs gpu

 > that's correct but slightly misleading. In order to get WebRTC VAAPI
 decoding support on Linux the upstream WebRTC project code would need to
 support it.
 >
 > The VAAPI work on Chromium and Firefox regarding videos is separate.
 AFAIK, no upstream support looks like it will be added soon.

 Firefox particularly has problems working with Jitsi and WebRTC because of
 missing features.

 They (Jitsi) did improve their support for non-chrome browser, apparently:

 https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet/issues/4758#issuecomment-614063335

 Jitsi are also working on E2E encryption but that requires "insertable
 streams":

 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1631263

 In general, here are the issues tagged with jitsi in the firefox
 bugtracker:

 
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?status_whiteboard_type=substring_whiteboard
 =jitsi-meet

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by anarcat):

 another interesting review

 https://tech.firstlook.media/how-to-pick-a-video-conferencing-platform

 of the free platforms we considered, they only reviewed jitsi, the others
 are Duo, Facetime, Hangouts, Jami, Keybase, Signal, Vidyo, Webex, and
 Zoom.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-
Changes (by ggus):

 * cc: ggus (added)


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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Old description:

> With the rise of the coronavirus, even Tor, which generally works
> remotely, is affected because we were still having physical meetings from
> time to time, and we'll have to find other ways to deal with this.
>
> This ticket aims at establishing the problem space ("what we're trying to
> solve") and evaluate possible solutions ("what could fix it"). we could
> follow the sysadmin documentation template:
>
> https://help.torproject.org/tsa/howto/template/#Discussion
>
> which establishes the following criterion:
>
> = Goals
> == Must have
>
>  * video/audio communication for a group of people of approx 2-10 people
>  * specifically, work session for teams internal to TPI
>  * chat fallback
>  * have a mobile app
>  * allow people to call in by regular phone
>  * a way for one person to mute themselves
>  * long term maintenance costs covered
>
> == Nice to have
>
>  * Reliable video support. Video chat is nice, but most video chat
> systems usually require all participants to have video off otherwise the
> communication is sensibly lagged.
>  * usable to host a Tor meeting, which means more load (because possibly
> > 20 people) and more tools (like slide sharing or whiteboarding)
>  * respecting our privacy, peer to peer encryption or at least encrypted
> with keys we control
>  * free and open source software
>  * tor support
>
> == Non-goals
>

> = Approvals required
>
> = Proposed solution
>
> = Cost
>
> = Alternatives considered
>
> == mumble
>
> === features
>
>  * audio-only
>  * moderation
>  * multiple rooms
>  * native client for Linux, Windows, Mac, iOS, Android
>  * web interface https://github.com/Johni0702/mumble-web
>  * chat
>
> === installation
>
> there are two different puppet modules to setup mumble:
>
> ​https://github.com/voxpupuli/puppet-mumble
> ​https://0xacab.org/riseup-puppet-recipes/mumble
>
> still need to be evaluated, but i'd be tempted to use the voxpupuli
> module because they tend to be better tested and it's more recent
>
> == jitsi
>
> === installation
>
> ansible roles: ​https://code.immerda.ch/o/ansible-jitsi-meet/
> ​https://github.com/UdelaRInterior/ansible-role-jitsi-meet
>
> puppet module: https://gitlab.com/shared-puppet-modules-group/jitsimeet
>
> there's also a docker container and (messy) debian packages
>
> prometheus exporter: ​https://github.com/systemli/prometheus-jitsi-meet-
> exporter
>
> == Nextcloud
>
> systemli is using this ansible role to install coturn:
> ​https://github.com/systemli/ansible-role-coturn
>
> == BBB
>
> features:
>
>  * audio, video conferencing support
>  * [http://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html#accessibility
> accesssible] with live closed captionning and support for screen readers
>  * whiteboarding and "slideshow" mode (to show PDF presentations)
>  * moderation tools
>  * chat box
>  * embedded etherpad
>  * dial-in support with Freeswitch
>  * should scale better than jitsi and NC, at least
> [http://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html#how-many-simultaneous-
> users-can-bigbluebutton-support according to their FAQ]: "As a rule of
> thumb, if your BigBlueButton server meets the minimum requirements, the
> server should be able to support 150 simultaneous users, such as 3
> simultaneous sessions of 50 users, 6 x 25, etc. We recommend no single
> sessions exceed one hundred (100) users."
>
> i tested an instance setup by a fellow sysadmin and we had trouble after
> a while, even with two people, doing a screenshare. it's unclear what the
> cause of the problem was: maybe the server was overloaded. more testing
> required.
>
> === installation
>
> [https://docs.bigbluebutton.org/2.2/install.html based on unofficial
> Debian packages], requires Freeswitch for dialin, which doesn't behave
> well under virtualization (so would need a bare metal server).

New description:

 With the rise of the coronavirus, even Tor, which generally works
 remotely, is affected because we were still having physical meetings from
 time to time, and we'll have to find other ways to deal with this.

 This ticket aims at establishing the problem space ("what we're 

Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-
Changes (by gaba):

 * cc: gaba (added)


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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by teor):

 It's also worth noting that Zoom has had serious security issues in the
 past:
 https://www.zdnet.com/article/zoom-defends-use-of-local-web-server-on-
 macs-after-security-report/

 And its install still acts like malware on some systems:
 https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/03/31/zoom-macos-install-shady-plus-
 video-chats-arent-end-to-end-encrypted

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Old description:

> With the rise of the coronavirus, even Tor, which generally works
> remotely, is affected because we were still having physical meetings from
> time to time, and we'll have to find other ways to deal with this.
>
> This ticket aims at establishing the problem space ("what we're trying to
> solve") and evaluate possible solutions ("what could fix it"). we could
> follow the sysadmin documentation template:
>
> https://help.torproject.org/tsa/howto/template/#Discussion
>
> which establishes the following criterion:
>
> = Goals
> == Must have
>
>  * video/audio communication for a group of people of approx 2-10 people
>  * specifically, work session for teams internal to TPI
>  * chat fallback
>  * have a mobile app
>  * allow people to call in by regular phone
>  * a way for one person to mute themselves
>  * long term maintenance costs covered
>
> == Nice to have
>
>  * Reliable video support. Video chat is nice, but most video chat
> systems usually require all participants to have video off otherwise the
> communication is sensibly lagged.
>  * usable to host a Tor meeting, which means more load (because possibly
> > 20 people) and more tools (like slide sharing or whiteboarding)
>  * respecting our privacy, peer to peer encryption or at least encrypted
> with keys we control
>  * free and open source software
>  * tor support
>
> == Non-goals
>

> = Approvals required
>
> = Proposed solution
>
> = Cost
>
> = Alternatives considered
>
> == mumble
>
> === features
>
>  * audio-only
>  * moderation
>  * multiple rooms
>  * native client for Linux, Windows, Mac, iOS, Android
>  * web interface https://github.com/Johni0702/mumble-web
>  * chat
>
> === installation
>
> there are two different puppet modules to setup mumble:
>
> ​https://github.com/voxpupuli/puppet-mumble
> ​https://0xacab.org/riseup-puppet-recipes/mumble
>
> still need to be evaluated, but i'd be tempted to use the voxpupuli
> module because they tend to be better tested and it's more recent
>
> == jitsi
>
> === installation
>
> ansible roles: ​https://code.immerda.ch/o/ansible-jitsi-meet/
> ​https://github.com/UdelaRInterior/ansible-role-jitsi-meet
>
> there's also a docker container and (messy) debian packages
>
> prometheus exporter: ​https://github.com/systemli/prometheus-jitsi-meet-
> exporter
>
> == Nextcloud
>
> systemli is using this ansible role to install coturn:
> ​https://github.com/systemli/ansible-role-coturn
>
> == BBB
>
> features:
>
>  * audio, video conferencing support
>  * [http://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html#accessibility
> accesssible] with live closed captionning and support for screen readers
>  * whiteboarding and "slideshow" mode (to show PDF presentations)
>  * moderation tools
>  * chat box
>  * embedded etherpad
>  * dial-in support with Freeswitch
>  * should scale better than jitsi and NC, at least
> [http://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html#how-many-simultaneous-
> users-can-bigbluebutton-support according to their FAQ]: "As a rule of
> thumb, if your BigBlueButton server meets the minimum requirements, the
> server should be able to support 150 simultaneous users, such as 3
> simultaneous sessions of 50 users, 6 x 25, etc. We recommend no single
> sessions exceed one hundred (100) users."
>
> i tested an instance setup by a fellow sysadmin and we had trouble after
> a while, even with two people, doing a screenshare. it's unclear what the
> cause of the problem was: maybe the server was overloaded. more testing
> required.
>
> === installation
>
> [https://docs.bigbluebutton.org/2.2/install.html based on unofficial
> Debian packages], requires Freeswitch for dialin, which doesn't behave
> well under virtualization (so would need a bare metal server).

New description:

 With the rise of the coronavirus, even Tor, which generally works
 remotely, is affected because we were still having physical meetings from
 time to time, and we'll have to find other ways to deal with this.

 This ticket aims at establishing the problem space ("what we're trying to
 solve") and evaluate possible solutions ("what could fix it"). we 

Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Old description:

> With the rise of the coronavirus, even Tor, which generally works
> remotely, is affected because we were still having physical meetings from
> time to time, and we'll have to find other ways to deal with this.
>
> This ticket aims at establishing the problem space ("what we're trying to
> solve") and evaluate possible solutions ("what could fix it"). we could
> follow the sysadmin documentation template:
>
> https://help.torproject.org/tsa/howto/template/#Discussion
>
> which establishes the following criterion:
>
> = Goals
> == Must have
>
>  * video/audio communication for a group of people of approx 2-10 people
>  * specifically, work session for teams internal to TPI
>  * chat fallback
>  * have a mobile app
>  * allow people to call in by regular phone
>  * a way for one person to mute themselves
>  * long term maintenance costs covered
>
> == Nice to have
>
>  * Reliable video support. Video chat is nice, but most video chat
> systems usually require all participants to have video off otherwise the
> communication is sensibly lagged.
>  * usable to host a Tor meeting, which means more load (because possibly
> > 20 people) and more tools (like slide sharing or whiteboarding)
>  * respecting our privacy, peer to peer encryption or at least encrypted
> with keys we control
>  * free and open source software
>  * tor support
>
> == Non-goals
>

> = Approvals required
>
> = Proposed solution
>
> = Cost
>
> = Alternatives considered
>
> == mumble
>
> === installation
>
> there are two different puppet modules to setup mumble:
>
> ​https://github.com/voxpupuli/puppet-mumble
> ​https://0xacab.org/riseup-puppet-recipes/mumble
>
> still need to be evaluated, but i'd be tempted to use the voxpupuli
> module because they tend to be better tested and it's more recent
>
> == jitsi
>
> === installation
>
> ansible roles: ​https://code.immerda.ch/o/ansible-jitsi-meet/
> ​https://github.com/UdelaRInterior/ansible-role-jitsi-meet
>
> there's also a docker container and (messy) debian packages
>
> prometheus exporter: ​https://github.com/systemli/prometheus-jitsi-meet-
> exporter
>
> == Nextcloud
>
> systemli is using this ansible role to install coturn:
> ​https://github.com/systemli/ansible-role-coturn
>
> == BBB
>
> features:
>
>  * audio, video conferencing support
>  * [http://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html#accessibility
> accesssible] with live closed captionning and support for screen readers
>  * whiteboarding and "slideshow" mode (to show PDF presentations)
>  * moderation tools
>  * chat box
>  * embedded etherpad
>  * dial-in support with Freeswitch
>  * should scale better than jitsi and NC, at least
> [http://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html#how-many-simultaneous-
> users-can-bigbluebutton-support according to their FAQ]: "As a rule of
> thumb, if your BigBlueButton server meets the minimum requirements, the
> server should be able to support 150 simultaneous users, such as 3
> simultaneous sessions of 50 users, 6 x 25, etc. We recommend no single
> sessions exceed one hundred (100) users."
>
> i tested an instance setup by a fellow sysadmin and we had trouble after
> a while, even with two people, doing a screenshare. it's unclear what the
> cause of the problem was: maybe the server was overloaded. more testing
> required.
>
> === installation
>
> [https://docs.bigbluebutton.org/2.2/install.html based on unofficial
> Debian packages], requires Freeswitch for dialin, which doesn't behave
> well under virtualization (so would need a bare metal server).

New description:

 With the rise of the coronavirus, even Tor, which generally works
 remotely, is affected because we were still having physical meetings from
 time to time, and we'll have to find other ways to deal with this.

 This ticket aims at establishing the problem space ("what we're trying to
 solve") and evaluate possible solutions ("what could fix it"). we could
 follow the sysadmin documentation template:

 https://help.torproject.org/tsa/howto/template/#Discussion

 which establishes the following criterion:

 = Goals
 == Must have

  * 

Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by anarcat):

 regarding the scalability issues with Jitsi, they seem to be claiming to
 be able to handle hundreds of streams in parallel, server side:

 https://jitsi.org/jitsi-videobridge-performance-evaluation/

 so maybe the experience we had with things breaking up at 10-12 people is
 just on the client side, and could be fixed with the `channelLastN` tweak.

 also, arma: if i remember correctly, the reason gaba asked me for this is
 exactly because they had reliability issues in the session they hosted on
 another server... so that's also something to keep in mind: if someone
 else is hosting the server, I can't fix it.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by anarcat):

 > Maybe I don't understand the goal of this ticket, but: it seems to me
 that our answer for audio / video meetings is: "use one of these external
 jitsi servers if there aren't very many people, use zoom if there are, and
 if the group doing the meeting wants to use something different they can
 do that."

 Well, for the "Zoom" part, there's certainly problems:

  * it's proprietary software - which I try to avoid installing on my
 computers, and I especially try to avoid forcing on my coworkers
  * it has serious privacy issues:
 https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/k7e599/zoom-ios-app-sends-data-to-
 facebook-even-if-you-dont-have-a-facebook-account
 https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/whereby-vs-zoom-transparency-opacity-
 respect-privacy-manuela

 So there is a case to be made that we want to have some alternatives to
 Zoom, specifically...

 >  That is, we've got no business setting up and tweaking our own jitsi
 (or whatever) server when there are already folks in the broader community
 who are doing it.

 ... and "use someone else's Jitsi instance" can certainly be an answer.
 But one of the things I have heard from people running those instances is
 that they need help. The call first came from the Framasoft people, and
 they basically said that organisations should run their own Jitsi
 instances instead of all relying on a central one.

 I'll also note that the last Jitsi call we made wasn't made on some random
 part of the internet: it was made on ahf's instance, who set it up in his
 free time.

 The other thing is that Jitsi does take a surprising amount of bandwidth
 when we're streaming video. It's logical, when you think about it, but
 video scales up quite fast, and it's not unheard of to have those saturate
 gigabit links. If all of TPI starts using Jitsi more intensively, we will
 monopolize that instance and deteriorate the service for smaller, one-time
 users that do not have our resources.

 But sure, we could use someone else's instance. I'll note we need to be
 very careful about this. One of the things Jitsi does, out of the box, is
 that it lists the conferences currently running on the server. If you
 don't set a password, anyone can join in and start listening on the
 conversation, which I find rather strange. If we setup our own instance,
 we could make a better policy. (You can set a password when you're the
 first to join, but I suspect I'm the only one who really does this, and
 it's really easy to forget.)

 Finally, I'll note that I have tried to establish a process by which we
 make this decision here. This ticket is not called "let's install an A/V
 server". The ticket is "audio- and video-conferencing considerations".
 It's explicitly aimed at documenting what are our requirements, the
 possible solutions and how the rate against our requirements.

 Hosting externally has always been an option. I'm just trying to formalize
 the process. If you have a "must have" that is "do not host ourselves"
 then, by all means add it if you think that should be a hard requirement.
 But so far I've gone with "long term maintenance costs covered" instead,
 which seems more in line with what, as an organization, we might be
 worried about.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by arma):

 Maybe I don't understand the goal of this ticket, but: it seems to me that
 our answer for audio / video meetings is: "use one of these external jitsi
 servers if there aren't very many people, use zoom if there are, and if
 the group doing the meeting wants to use something different they can do
 that."

 That is, we've got no business setting up and tweaking our own jitsi (or
 whatever) server when there are already folks in the broader community who
 are doing it.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by anarcat):

 the approach with mumble would require something else for screensharing.

 also with jitsi, it would be nice to have some sort of whiteboarding...
 here are a few solutions:

 http://deadsimplewhiteboard.herokuapp.com/
 https://awwapp.com/
 https://www.webwhiteboard.com/

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-
Description changed by anarcat:

Old description:

> With the rise of the coronavirus, even Tor, which generally works
> remotely, is affected because we were still having physical meetings from
> time to time, and we'll have to find other ways to deal with this.
>
> This ticket aims at establishing the problem space ("what we're trying to
> solve") and evaluate possible solutions ("what could fix it"). we could
> follow the sysadmin documentation template:
>
> https://help.torproject.org/tsa/howto/template/#Discussion
>
> which establishes the following criterion:
>
> = Goals
> == Must have
>
>  * video/audio communication for a group of people of approx 2-10 people
>  * specifically, work session for teams internal to TPI
>  * chat fallback
>  * have a mobile app
>  * allow people to call in by regular phone
>  * a way for one person to mute themselves
>  * long term maintenance costs covered
>
> == Nice to have
>
>  * Reliable video support. Video chat is nice, but most video chat
> systems usually require all participants to have video off otherwise the
> communication is sensibly lagged.
>  * usable to host a Tor meeting, which means more load (because possibly
> > 20 people) and more tools (like slide sharing or whiteboarding)
>  * respecting our privacy, peer to peer encryption or at least encrypted
> with keys we control
>  * free and open source software
>
> == Non-goals
>

> = Approvals required
>
> = Proposed solution
>
> = Cost
>
> = Alternatives considered
>
> == mumble
>
> === installation
>
> there are two different puppet modules to setup mumble:
>
> ​https://github.com/voxpupuli/puppet-mumble
> ​https://0xacab.org/riseup-puppet-recipes/mumble
>
> still need to be evaluated, but i'd be tempted to use the voxpupuli
> module because they tend to be better tested and it's more recent
>
> == jitsi
>
> === installation
>
> ansible roles: ​https://code.immerda.ch/o/ansible-jitsi-meet/
> ​https://github.com/UdelaRInterior/ansible-role-jitsi-meet
>
> there's also a docker container and (messy) debian packages
>
> prometheus exporter: ​https://github.com/systemli/prometheus-jitsi-meet-
> exporter
>
> == Nextcloud
>
> systemli is using this ansible role to install coturn:
> ​https://github.com/systemli/ansible-role-coturn
>
> == BBB
>
> features:
>
>  * audio, video conferencing support
>  * [http://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html#accessibility
> accesssible] with live closed captionning and support for screen readers
>  * whiteboarding and "slideshow" mode (to show PDF presentations)
>  * moderation tools
>  * chat box
>  * embedded etherpad
>  * dial-in support with Freeswitch
>  * should scale better than jitsi and NC, at least
> [http://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html#how-many-simultaneous-
> users-can-bigbluebutton-support according to their FAQ]: "As a rule of
> thumb, if your BigBlueButton server meets the minimum requirements, the
> server should be able to support 150 simultaneous users, such as 3
> simultaneous sessions of 50 users, 6 x 25, etc. We recommend no single
> sessions exceed one hundred (100) users."
>
> i tested an instance setup by a fellow sysadmin and we had trouble after
> a while, even with two people, doing a screenshare. it's unclear what the
> cause of the problem was: maybe the server was overloaded. more testing
> required.
>
> === installation
>
> [https://docs.bigbluebutton.org/2.2/install.html based on unofficial
> Debian packages], requires Freeswitch for dialin, which doesn't behave
> well under virtualization (so would need a bare metal server).

New description:

 With the rise of the coronavirus, even Tor, which generally works
 remotely, is affected because we were still having physical meetings from
 time to time, and we'll have to find other ways to deal with this.

 This ticket aims at establishing the problem space ("what we're trying to
 solve") and evaluate possible solutions ("what could fix it"). we could
 follow the sysadmin documentation template:

 https://help.torproject.org/tsa/howto/template/#Discussion

 which establishes the following criterion:

 = Goals
 == Must have

Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Old description:

> With the rise of the coronavirus, even Tor, which generally works
> remotely, is affected because we were still having physical meetings from
> time to time, and we'll have to find other ways to deal with this.
>
> This ticket aims at establishing the problem space ("what we're trying to
> solve") and evaluate possible solutions ("what could fix it"). we could
> follow the sysadmin documentation template:
>
> https://help.torproject.org/tsa/howto/template/#Discussion
>
> which establishes the following criterion:
>
> == Goals
> === Must have
>
>  * video/audio communication for a group of people of approx 2-10 people
>  * specifically, work session for teams internal to TPI
>  * chat fallback
>  * have a mobile app
>  * allow people to call in by regular phone
>  * a way for one person to mute themselves
>  * long term maintenance costs covered
>
> === Nice to have
>
>  * Reliable video support. Video chat is nice, but most video chat
> systems usually require all participants to have video off otherwise the
> communication is sensibly lagged.
>  * usable to host a Tor meeting, which means more load (because possibly
> > 20 people) and more tools (like slide sharing or whiteboarding)
>  * respecting our privacy, peer to peer encryption or at least encrypted
> with keys we control
>  * free and open source software
>
> === Non-goals
>

> == Approvals required
>
> == Proposed solution
>
> == Cost
>
> == Alternatives considered
>
> === mumble
>
> there are two different puppet modules to setup mumble:
>
> ​https://github.com/voxpupuli/puppet-mumble
> ​https://0xacab.org/riseup-puppet-recipes/mumble
>
> still need to be evaluated, but i'd be tempted to use the voxpupuli
> module because they tend to be better tested and it's more recent
>
> === jitsi
>
> ansible roles: ​https://code.immerda.ch/o/ansible-jitsi-meet/
> ​https://github.com/UdelaRInterior/ansible-role-jitsi-meet
>
> there's also a docker container and (messy) debian packages
>
> prometheus exporter: ​https://github.com/systemli/prometheus-jitsi-meet-
> exporter
>
> === Nextcloud
>
> systemli is using this ansible role to install coturn:
> ​https://github.com/systemli/ansible-role-coturn
>
> === BBB
>
> no known install procedure, might be messy.

New description:

 With the rise of the coronavirus, even Tor, which generally works
 remotely, is affected because we were still having physical meetings from
 time to time, and we'll have to find other ways to deal with this.

 This ticket aims at establishing the problem space ("what we're trying to
 solve") and evaluate possible solutions ("what could fix it"). we could
 follow the sysadmin documentation template:

 https://help.torproject.org/tsa/howto/template/#Discussion

 which establishes the following criterion:

 = Goals
 == Must have

  * video/audio communication for a group of people of approx 2-10 people
  * specifically, work session for teams internal to TPI
  * chat fallback
  * have a mobile app
  * allow people to call in by regular phone
  * a way for one person to mute themselves
  * long term maintenance costs covered

 == Nice to have

  * Reliable video support. Video chat is nice, but most video chat systems
 usually require all participants to have video off otherwise the
 communication is sensibly lagged.
  * usable to host a Tor meeting, which means more load (because possibly >
 20 people) and more tools (like slide sharing or whiteboarding)
  * respecting our privacy, peer to peer encryption or at least encrypted
 with keys we control
  * free and open source software

 == Non-goals


 = Approvals required

 = Proposed solution

 = Cost

 = Alternatives considered

 == mumble

 === installation

 there are two different puppet modules to setup mumble:

 ​https://github.com/voxpupuli/puppet-mumble
 ​https://0xacab.org/riseup-puppet-recipes/mumble

 still need to be evaluated, but i'd be tempted to use the voxpupuli module
 because they tend to be better tested and it's more recent

 == jitsi

 === installation

 ansible roles: ​https://code.immerda.ch/o/ansible-jitsi-meet/
 

Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by anarcat):

 > VC isn't that easy and it doesn't really scale that well in terms of
 resources.

 This is why, by the way, I'm thinking we could just host a mumble instance
 instead. This is much, *much* simpler to deploy in terms of staff skills,
 but it also uses much less resources, both on the client and the server
 side.

 But if we have "video" as a "must-have", i guess that kicks out mumble...
 :/ (Dial-in, by the way, is a possibility with
 [https://github.com/slomkowski/mumsi mumsi] although that project is not
 as well packaged and maintained as mumble itself.)

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:
 |  needs_revision
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-
Changes (by anarcat):

 * status:  new => needs_revision


Old description:

> With the rise of the coronavirus, even Tor, which generally works
> remotely, is affected because we were still having physical meetings from
> time to time, and we'll have to find other ways to deal with this.
>
> This ticket aims at establishing the problem space ("what we're trying to
> solve") and evaluate possible solutions ("what could fix it"). we could
> follow the sysadmin documentation template:
>
> https://help.torproject.org/tsa/howto/template/#Discussion
>
> which establishes the following criterion:
>
> == Goals
> === Must have
>
>  * video/audio communication for a group of people of approx 2-10 people
>  * chat fallback
>  * have a mobile app
>  * allow people to call in by regular phone
>  * a way for one person to mute themselves
>  * long term maintenance costs covered
>
> === Nice to have
>
>  * Reliable video support. Video chat is nice, but most video chat
> systems usually require all participants to have video off otherwise the
> communication is sensibly lagged.
>
> === Non-goals
>
> == Approvals required
>
> == Proposed solution
>
> == Cost
>
> == Alternatives considered
>
> === mumble
>
> there are two different puppet modules to setup mumble:
>
> ​https://github.com/voxpupuli/puppet-mumble
> ​https://0xacab.org/riseup-puppet-recipes/mumble
>
> still need to be evaluated, but i'd be tempted to use the voxpupuli
> module because they tend to be better tested and it's more recent
>
> === jitsi
>
> ansible roles: ​https://code.immerda.ch/o/ansible-jitsi-meet/
> ​https://github.com/UdelaRInterior/ansible-role-jitsi-meet
>
> there's also a docker container and (messy) debian packages
>
> prometheus exporter: ​https://github.com/systemli/prometheus-jitsi-meet-
> exporter
>
> === Nextcloud
>
> systemli is using this ansible role to install coturn:
> ​https://github.com/systemli/ansible-role-coturn
>
> === BBB
>
> no known install procedure, might be messy.

New description:

 With the rise of the coronavirus, even Tor, which generally works
 remotely, is affected because we were still having physical meetings from
 time to time, and we'll have to find other ways to deal with this.

 This ticket aims at establishing the problem space ("what we're trying to
 solve") and evaluate possible solutions ("what could fix it"). we could
 follow the sysadmin documentation template:

 https://help.torproject.org/tsa/howto/template/#Discussion

 which establishes the following criterion:

 == Goals
 === Must have

  * video/audio communication for a group of people of approx 2-10 people
  * specifically, work session for teams internal to TPI
  * chat fallback
  * have a mobile app
  * allow people to call in by regular phone
  * a way for one person to mute themselves
  * long term maintenance costs covered

 === Nice to have

  * Reliable video support. Video chat is nice, but most video chat systems
 usually require all participants to have video off otherwise the
 communication is sensibly lagged.
  * usable to host a Tor meeting, which means more load (because possibly >
 20 people) and more tools (like slide sharing or whiteboarding)
  * respecting our privacy, peer to peer encryption or at least encrypted
 with keys we control
  * free and open source software

 === Non-goals


 == Approvals required

 == Proposed solution

 == Cost

 == Alternatives considered

 === mumble

 there are two different puppet modules to setup mumble:

 ​https://github.com/voxpupuli/puppet-mumble
 ​https://0xacab.org/riseup-puppet-recipes/mumble

 still need to be evaluated, but i'd be tempted to use the voxpupuli module
 because they tend to be better tested and it's more recent

 === jitsi

 ansible roles: ​https://code.immerda.ch/o/ansible-jitsi-meet/
 ​https://github.com/UdelaRInterior/ansible-role-jitsi-meet

 there's also a docker container and (messy) debian packages

 prometheus exporter: ​https://github.com/systemli/prometheus-jitsi-meet-
 exporter

 === Nextcloud

 systemli is using this ansible role to install coturn:
 

Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:  new
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Old description:

> With the rise of the coronavirus, even Tor, which generally works
> remotely, is affected because we were still having physical meetings from
> time to time, and we'll have to find other ways to deal with this.
>
> This ticket aims at establishing the problem space ("what we're trying to
> solve") and evaluate possible solutions ("what could fix it"). we could
> follow the sysadmin documentation template:
>
> https://help.torproject.org/tsa/howto/template/#Discussion
>
> which establishes the following criterion:
>
>  * Goals
>* Must have
>* Nice to have
>* Non-goals
>  * Approvals required
>  * Proposed solution
>  * Cost
>  * Alternatives considered

New description:

 With the rise of the coronavirus, even Tor, which generally works
 remotely, is affected because we were still having physical meetings from
 time to time, and we'll have to find other ways to deal with this.

 This ticket aims at establishing the problem space ("what we're trying to
 solve") and evaluate possible solutions ("what could fix it"). we could
 follow the sysadmin documentation template:

 https://help.torproject.org/tsa/howto/template/#Discussion

 which establishes the following criterion:

 == Goals
 === Must have

  * video/audio communication for a group of people of approx 2-10 people
  * chat fallback
  * have a mobile app
  * allow people to call in by regular phone
  * a way for one person to mute themselves
  * long term maintenance costs covered

 === Nice to have

  * Reliable video support. Video chat is nice, but most video chat systems
 usually require all participants to have video off otherwise the
 communication is sensibly lagged.

 === Non-goals

 == Approvals required

 == Proposed solution

 == Cost

 == Alternatives considered

 === mumble

 there are two different puppet modules to setup mumble:

 ​https://github.com/voxpupuli/puppet-mumble
 ​https://0xacab.org/riseup-puppet-recipes/mumble

 still need to be evaluated, but i'd be tempted to use the voxpupuli module
 because they tend to be better tested and it's more recent

 === jitsi

 ansible roles: ​https://code.immerda.ch/o/ansible-jitsi-meet/
 ​https://github.com/UdelaRInterior/ansible-role-jitsi-meet

 there's also a docker container and (messy) debian packages

 prometheus exporter: ​https://github.com/systemli/prometheus-jitsi-meet-
 exporter

 === Nextcloud

 systemli is using this ansible role to install coturn:
 ​https://github.com/systemli/ansible-role-coturn

 === BBB

 no known install procedure, might be messy.

--

Comment (by anarcat):

 i've edited the summary to summarize the discussion of Goals so far along
 with the known possible solutions.

 i'm susprised to read that "reliable video support" is a "nice to have
 have". i am not surprised, however, to see that everything *else* ends up
 in the "must have" section: this is often what happens in those kind of
 exercises, as we want everything.

 i would still encourage folks to consider what is out of scope here. do we
 want whiteboarding for example? or is that a nice to have? how about
 moderation or capacity beyond 10-20 people (say to host a tor meeting)?

 i think the next step here is to do a short inventory of external
 alternatives we could consider, and evaluate costs.

 and if i may make an editorial comment...

 if this was just my call, my gut feeling would be to just setup a mumble
 server:

  1. a lot of collectives run it
  2. it's much *much* simpler to setup than jitsi (there's a debian package
 *and* a puppet module)
  3. many of us are already familiar with it, and those who aren't should
 be able to cross over
  4. it scales

 But that said I understand if people would prefer to have video and are
 worried about the usability aspects of Mumble (which are real).

 I would also like gaba to clarify the scope of the project: is this for
 vegas meetings? for team meetings? for workshops? for the tor meeting? for
 meeting with funders? please file those use cases in the Goals so we have
 a better idea of the feature set required.

--
Ticket URL: 
Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki 

Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:  new
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by anarcat):

 some notes about jitsi optimizations:

  * disabling google's servers:
 https://mastodon.infra.de/@galaxis/103861095334491566
  * limit the number of concurrent speakers:
{{{
 10:43:49 <+ahf> // Default value for the channel "last N" attribute.
 -1 for unlimited.
 10:43:49 <+ahf> // channelLastN: -1,
 10:43:49 <+ahf> channelLastN: 10,
 }}}
  * change the JVM heap allocation in `/usr/share/jitsi-
 videobridge/lib/videobridge.rc`
  * raise logging level to ERROR to keep logs from flooding the disk in
 `/etc/jitsi/videobridge/logging.properties`
  * open up `tcp/4443` and `udp/1` to the video bridge

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:  new
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by hiro):

 Replying to [comment:9 gaba]:
 > Replying to [comment:7 hiro]:
 > > I have some doubts regarding hosting our video-conferencing system. I
 understand there are some nice aspect of hosting our own tools, but at the
 same time there is a reason big organization spend a lot of resources in
 video conferencing systems and smaller organization decide to buy in some
 solution. VC isn't that easy and it doesn't really scale that well in
 terms of resources.
 > >
 > > So if we want a solution so that 5 people can have a meeting at the
 same time that's ok, we can host it. But I am not sure we can have a
 solution where we can have 3 meeting of 5 people at the same time and it
 would work as well...
 > >
 > > This is just some food for thoughts about making estimates and
 deciding what we want.
 >
 >
 > Yes. We do not have to do this. We could just support one of the
 collectives that are running jitsi and use their infra instead. It is
 valid to bring up this point that may not be something we have the
 resources or time to do right now.
 >
 >

 That is exactly what I meant. As you mentioned there are different
 collectives that are running solutions and we could partner with them if
 we want something long term for all our meetings. If instead we want
 something small for a few meetings per day and only a few people than I
 think we could host something pretty quickly.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:  new
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by gaba):

 Replying to [comment:6 anarcat]:
 > > allow people to call in
 >
 > you mean phone?

 yes. Some people use a phone to call in into audio conferences.

 >
 > >  Are you all thinking on one server to host any video-conferencing
 software? How much $ would that cost?
 >
 > depends on the service we pick. biggest cost center is staff, so it
 depends on how hard it would be to setup. would evaluate once we know what
 we do. :)

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:  new
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by gaba):

 Replying to [comment:7 hiro]:
 > I have some doubts regarding hosting our video-conferencing system. I
 understand there are some nice aspect of hosting our own tools, but at the
 same time there is a reason big organization spend a lot of resources in
 video conferencing systems and smaller organization decide to buy in some
 solution. VC isn't that easy and it doesn't really scale that well in
 terms of resources.
 >
 > So if we want a solution so that 5 people can have a meeting at the same
 time that's ok, we can host it. But I am not sure we can have a solution
 where we can have 3 meeting of 5 people at the same time and it would work
 as well...
 >
 > This is just some food for thoughts about making estimates and deciding
 what we want.


 Yes. We do not have to do this. We could just support one of the
 collectives that are running jitsi and use their infra instead. It is
 valid to bring up this point that may not be something we have the
 resources or time to do right now.

--
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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:  new
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-
Changes (by mcs):

 * cc: mcs (added)


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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:  new
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by hiro):

 I have some doubts regarding hosting our video-conferencing system. I
 understand there are some nice aspect of hosting our own tools, but at the
 same time there is a reason big organization spend a lot of resources in
 video conferencing systems and smaller organization decide to buy in some
 solution. VC isn't that easy and it doesn't really scale that well in
 terms of resources.

 So if we want a solution so that 5 people can have a meeting at the same
 time that's ok, we can host it. But I am not sure we can have a solution
 where we can have 3 meeting of 5 people at the same time and it would work
 as well...

 This is just some food for thoughts about making estimates and deciding
 what we want.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:  new
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by anarcat):

 > allow people to call in

 you mean phone?

 >  Are you all thinking on one server to host any video-conferencing
 software? How much $ would that cost?

 depends on the service we pick. biggest cost center is staff, so it
 depends on how hard it would be to setup. would evaluate once we know what
 we do. :)

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:  new
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by gaba):

 Must have:
 * allow people to call in
 * video/audio communication for a group of people of approx 2-10 people
 * mobile app
 * chat
 * a way for one person to mute themselves


 My experience with nextcloud talk is that does not even work well for 2
 people. Signal is much better for 2 people talking.

 Are you all thinking on one server to host any video-conferencing
 software? How much $ would that cost?

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:  new
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by anarcat):

 >  Is this something our nextcloud could support? Or we would have to host
 it and setup a way for it to talk to our nc?

 i don't know. NC Talk doesn't work so well, IMHO, with lots of people.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:  new
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by hiro):

 Replying to [comment:1 anarcat]:

 > = Nextcloud
 >
 > systemli is using this ansible role to install coturn:
 https://github.com/systemli/ansible-role-coturn
 >

 Is this something our nextcloud could support? Or we would have to host it
 and setup a way for it to talk to our nc?

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:  new
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by hiro):

 **Must have:**
 - video/audio communication for a group of people of approx 2-10 people
 - chat fallback
 - have a mobile app

 **Nice to have:**
 - Reliable video support. Video chat is nice, but most video chat systems
 usually require all participants to have video off otherwise the
 communication is sensibly lagged.
 - allow people to call in

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:  new
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services Admin |Version:
  Team   |
 Severity:  Major| Resolution:
 Keywords:   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-

Comment (by anarcat):

 my inventory of possible solutions is detailed in this blog post:

 https://anarc.at/blog/2020-03-15-remote-tools/

 the TL;DR: is basically:

  * BBB (Big Blue Button)
  * Jitsi
  * Mumble
  * Nextcloud talk, for small meetings

 some technical considerations regarding install methods:

 = mumble

 there are two different puppet modules to setup mumble:

  * https://github.com/voxpupuli/puppet-mumble
  * https://0xacab.org/riseup-puppet-recipes/mumble

 still need to be evaluated, but i'd be tempted to use the voxpupuli module
 because they tend to be better tested and it's more recent

 = jitsi

 ansible roles: https://code.immerda.ch/o/ansible-jitsi-meet/
 https://github.com/UdelaRInterior/ansible-role-jitsi-meet

 there's also a docker container and (messy) debian packages

 prometheus exporter: https://github.com/systemli/prometheus-jitsi-meet-
 exporter

 = Nextcloud

 systemli is using this ansible role to install coturn:
 https://github.com/systemli/ansible-role-coturn

 = BBB

 no known install procedure, might be messy.

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[tor-bugs] #33700 [Internal Services/Services Admin Team]: audio- and video-conferencing considerations

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33700: audio- and video-conferencing considerations
-+-
 Reporter:  anarcat  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  project  | Status:  new
 Priority:  High |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Services   |Version:
  Admin Team |
 Severity:  Major|   Keywords:
Actual Points:   |  Parent ID:
   Points:   |   Reviewer:
  Sponsor:   |
-+-
 With the rise of the coronavirus, even Tor, which generally works
 remotely, is affected because we were still having physical meetings from
 time to time, and we'll have to find other ways to deal with this.

 This ticket aims at establishing the problem space ("what we're trying to
 solve") and evaluate possible solutions ("what could fix it"). we could
 follow the sysadmin documentation template:

 https://help.torproject.org/tsa/howto/template/#Discussion

 which establishes the following criterion:

  * Goals
* Must have
* Nice to have
* Non-goals
  * Approvals required
  * Proposed solution
  * Cost
  * Alternatives considered

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