Re: [tor-dev] Proposal for PoW DoS defenses during introduction (was Re: Proposal 305: ESTABLISH_INTRO Cell DoS Defense Extension)

2019-06-20 Thread juanjo
Why do we need to send a challenge to a client on every request? No, it is only the first time when connecting an onion and moreover this should be enabled only when the configured rate limit / antiDoS is reached. SO actually a client will be connecting to the onion like always: with no PoW.

Re: [tor-dev] Proposal for PoW DoS defenses during introduction (was Re: Proposal 305: ESTABLISH_INTRO Cell DoS Defense Extension)

2019-06-20 Thread Jeff Burdges
> On 2019-06-20 00:19, Watson Ladd wrote: >> >> Privacy Pass has already been integrated into Tor Browser. Perhaps >> work could be done to use it here? > > As I said above, any oblivious PRF scheme like privacy pass violates privacy > *if* you can supply different keys to different users. We

Re: [tor-dev] Proposal for PoW DoS defenses during introduction (was Re: Proposal 305: ESTABLISH_INTRO Cell DoS Defense Extension)

2019-06-20 Thread Jeff Burdges
On 2019-06-20 00:19, Watson Ladd wrote: > > Privacy Pass has already been integrated into Tor Browser. Perhaps > work could be done to use it here? As I said above, any oblivious PRF scheme like privacy pass violates privacy *if* you can supply different keys to different users. We cannot

Re: [tor-dev] Proposal for PoW DoS defenses during introduction (was Re: Proposal 305: ESTABLISH_INTRO Cell DoS Defense Extension)

2019-06-20 Thread Chelsea Holland Komlo
On 2019-06-20 00:19, Watson Ladd wrote: > On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 6:29 PM Chelsea Holland Komlo > wrote: >> >> There are a couple approaches to consider. >> >> POW via hashing goes for a relatively simple to implement approach. >> However, this incurs a high cost for all clients, and also

Re: [tor-dev] Proposal for PoW DoS defenses during introduction (was Re: Proposal 305: ESTABLISH_INTRO Cell DoS Defense Extension)

2019-06-19 Thread Georg Koppen
Watson Ladd: > On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 6:29 PM Chelsea Holland Komlo > wrote: >> >> There are a couple approaches to consider. >> >> POW via hashing goes for a relatively simple to implement approach. >> However, this incurs a high cost for all clients, and also environmental >> damage, per

Re: [tor-dev] Proposal for PoW DoS defenses during introduction (was Re: Proposal 305: ESTABLISH_INTRO Cell DoS Defense Extension)

2019-06-19 Thread Watson Ladd
On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 6:29 PM Chelsea Holland Komlo wrote: > > There are a couple approaches to consider. > > POW via hashing goes for a relatively simple to implement approach. > However, this incurs a high cost for all clients, and also environmental > damage, per previous email. > > Another

Re: [tor-dev] Proposal for PoW DoS defenses during introduction (was Re: Proposal 305: ESTABLISH_INTRO Cell DoS Defense Extension)

2019-06-18 Thread Chelsea Holland Komlo
There are a couple approaches to consider. POW via hashing goes for a relatively simple to implement approach. However, this incurs a high cost for all clients, and also environmental damage, per previous email. Another approach similar to the above (but more environmentally friendly) can be

Re: [tor-dev] Proposal for PoW DoS defenses during introduction (was Re: Proposal 305: ESTABLISH_INTRO Cell DoS Defense Extension)

2019-06-16 Thread Jeff Burdges
As a rule, proof-of-work does not really deliver the security properties people envision. We’ve no really canonical anti-sibel criteria in this case, but maybe some mixed approach works: First, introduction points have a default mode in which they rate limit new connections and impose some

Re: [tor-dev] Proposal for PoW DoS defenses during introduction (was Re: Proposal 305: ESTABLISH_INTRO Cell DoS Defense Extension)

2019-06-14 Thread George Kadianakis
juanjo writes: > On 13/6/19 12:21, George Kadianakis wrote: >> Is this a new cell? What's the format? Are these really keys or are they >> just nonces? > > Yes sorry, they are nonces. > > > This was only a proposal for a proposal. > >> Is this a new cell? What's the format? Are these really keys

Re: [tor-dev] Proposal for PoW DoS defenses during introduction (was Re: Proposal 305: ESTABLISH_INTRO Cell DoS Defense Extension)

2019-06-13 Thread juanjo
On 13/6/19 12:21, George Kadianakis wrote: Is this a new cell? What's the format? Are these really keys or are they just nonces? Yes sorry, they are nonces. This was only a proposal for a proposal. Is this a new cell? What's the format? Are these really keys or are they just nonces? IMO

Re: [tor-dev] Proposal for PoW DoS defenses during introduction (was Re: Proposal 305: ESTABLISH_INTRO Cell DoS Defense Extension)

2019-06-13 Thread Aaron Lye
George Kadianakis: >>     2.Client computes POW. >>     Do{ >> Generates random 8 bytes key (ClientKey). >> Generates hash(sha512/256 or sha3??) of >> hash(IPKey + ClientKey) >> } while (hash does not start with "abcde") >> > > That looks like a naive PoW scheme. It would perhaps be preferable

[tor-dev] Proposal for PoW DoS defenses during introduction (was Re: Proposal 305: ESTABLISH_INTRO Cell DoS Defense Extension)

2019-06-13 Thread George Kadianakis
juanjo writes: > Hello, this is my view of things, please be gentle as this is my first > proposal draft :) > Hello, thanks for working on this. IMO any proof-of-work introduction proposal can be seen as orthogonal to David's prop305 which is a rate-limiting proposal (even tho it's not named