On 7/4/2014 11:37 PM, Moritz Bartl wrote:
I will pick up this thread only after we have seen a written statement
by the court.
Anyone (not just Moritz) know what ever happened in this court case?
Was prosecution dropped? A legal opinion (verdict) reached?
--
tor-talk mailing list -
On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 2:32 AM, Joe Btfsplk joebtfs...@gmx.com wrote:
On 7/7/2014 6:04 PM, I wrote:
As for freedom of speech Australia has none legislated and does have
severe laws against sedition.
What other developed country can match that for discouraging speech?
Well, 'Stralia is a
On 7/8/14, Joe Btfsplk joebtfs...@gmx.com wrote:
On 7/7/2014 10:04 PM, C B wrote:
But it is often said, if you do not know what your rights are, you have
none. Rights have to be asserted. Strenuously. Thousands of people have
been more than willing to go to prison to assert various rights so
On Tue, Jul 08, 2014 at 09:30:07AM +0200, Anders Andersson wrote:
On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 2:32 AM, Joe Btfsplk joebtfs...@gmx.com wrote:
On 7/7/2014 6:04 PM, I wrote:
As for freedom of speech Australia has none legislated and does have
severe laws against sedition.
What other developed
On 7/7/2014 6:04 PM, I wrote:
It appears that it is specifically unwise to rubbish the court while subject to
it.
As for freedom of speech Australia has none legislated and does have severe
laws against sedition.
What other developed country can match that for discouraging speech?
Well,
On 7/8/14, I beatthebasta...@inbox.com wrote:
It appears that it is specifically unwise to rubbish the court while subject
to it.
I think this is a valid point in any jurisdiction, and also speaks to
the difficulty in having a lower court sanction itself - thus superior
courts.
As for freedom
On Mon, 07 Jul 2014 19:32:04 -0500
Joe Btfsplk joebtfs...@gmx.com wrote:
Sedition and freedom of speech for political religious views can
overlap. In the U.S., you can criticize the gov't - usually without
fear, as long as it's not promoting anarchy, inciting a riot, etc.
It usually
:35 PM
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Tor Exit Operator convicted in Austrian lower court
you can criticize the gov't - usually without
fear, as long as it's not promoting anarchy
so you dont have freedom of speech
It usually doesn't do any good, but you can criticize.
so
On 7/7/2014 10:04 PM, C B wrote:
But it is often said, if you do not know what your rights are, you have none.
Rights have to be asserted. Strenuously. Thousands of people have been more
than willing to go to prison to assert various rights so that everyone else
will have them.
Mostly, you
To no.thing_to-hide -
the link you provided is inaccessible for me.
It gives a message: This page was not retrieved from its original
location over a secure connection.
Not sure if there's a way around it, or maybe provide the original page
let people translate it themselves?
On 7/4/2014
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Thanks for the notice.
The German Heise publisher provides good information to IT-related
topics, but in German. I tried my Google-translate-link just before,
and it worked via Tor, perhaps you could switch the exit? Anyway, here
ist the original
Thanks. I've not used online translating sites for larger documents or
whole websites. For this document, I tried a few other well known
translators besides google translate - in an attempt to avoid anything
google.
Are there online translators that work for larger documents besides
google
, 2014 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Tor Exit Operator convicted in Austrian lower court
Thanks for the notice.
The German Heise publisher provides good information to IT-related
topics, but in German. I tried my Google-translate-link just before,
and it worked via Tor, perhaps you could switch
On 7/5/14, Moritz Bartl mor...@torservers.net wrote:
The legal FAQ is a legal FAQ. It is still completely legal in all
countries we know of. It is not the how you should behave and what is
the worst case scenario FAQ: That is
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/TorExitGuidelines
On 07/05/2014 07:30 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
I'm not sure the TorExitGuidelines provide an adequate
Behaviour FAQ, in the hindsight of recent events.
Again: There is no hindsight of recent events. There just can't be,
because the court opinion has not been released yet.
It has always been
On 7/5/14, Moritz Bartl mor...@torservers.net wrote:
On 07/05/2014 07:30 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
HE WAS NOT CONVICTED BECAUSE OF RUNNING AN EXIT.
Every single character of any of the emails in this thread are PURELY
ASSUMPTIONS.
Thanks.
- Node operators (relays, entries and exits) are
On 07/05/2014 05:28 AM, Joe Btfsplk wrote:
On 7/4/2014 3:02 PM, no.thing_to-h...@cryptopathie.eu wrote:
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Hello Tor!
Running an internal relay in Graz since 7/2013, where William Weber's
appartment was raided in 2012, when some idiot misused his
On 07/03/2014 07:14 PM, Joe Btfsplk wrote:
Perhaps out of fear of legal liability, Tor Project doesn't seem to have
what would be very helpful for relay operators - guides, documents -
even access to basic legal advice, of how to best avoid legal issues to
begin with.
Hi!
On 04 Jul 2014, at 15:31, Moritz Bartl mor...@torservers.net wrote:
I have talked to multiple lawyers, and this case would be very easy to
defend against. William was sadly unable or unwilling to communicate
properly, and he's not willing/able to put it to a fight. It is a sad
situation
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Hello Tor!
Running an internal relay in Graz since 7/2013, where William Weber's
appartment was raided in 2012, when some idiot misused his exit for
illegal stuff, I became interested in his case. But I know it only
from the newspapers.
The raid
On 7/3/2014 2:23 PM, C B wrote:
I agree that collecting stories about why/how I use Tor is useful, but I disagree
that any special education or warning should be needed before setting up an exit node. Setting up
an exit node is simply providing another IP that can be used for traffic and
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I fully agree with Joe!
Running an exit can get you in serious legal trouble, because Tor /and
all other anonymity services/ will always be misused for illegal
activities. Every interested operator must make his personal moral
trade-off and come to a
On 7/5/14, no.thing_to-h...@cryptopathie.eu
no.thing_to-h...@cryptopathie.eu wrote:
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Hello Tor!
Running an internal relay in Graz since 7/2013, where William Weber's
appartment was raided in 2012, when some idiot misused his exit for
illegal
On 7/4/2014 3:02 PM, no.thing_to-h...@cryptopathie.eu wrote:
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Hello Tor!
Running an internal relay in Graz since 7/2013, where William Weber's
appartment was raided in 2012, when some idiot misused his exit for
illegal stuff, I became interested in
On 07/04/2014 10:56 PM, Joe Btfsplk wrote:
*No*, we aren't aware of anyone being sued or prosecuted in the United
States just for running a Tor relay. Further, we believe that running a
Tor relay --- including an exit relay that allows people to anonymously
send and receive traffic --- is
From: Roman Mamedov r...@romanrm.net
To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2014 11:33 PM
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Tor Exit Operator convicted in Austrian lower court
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On Thu, 03 Jul 2014 03:54:32 +0300
s7r s...@sky-ip.org wrote
MacLemon:
German language Austrian Legalese background:
Austrian E-Commerce Law §15: Ausschluss der Verantwortlichkeit bei
Zwischenspeicherungen http://j.mp/1iYdg4L
§ 15. Ein Diensteanbieter, der von einem Nutzer eingegebene
Informationen in einem Kommunikationsnetz übermittelt, ist für
On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 5:53 AM, Moritz Bartl mor...@torservers.net wrote:
On 07/02/2014 11:00 PM, Anders Andersson wrote:
Unfortunately he doesn't seem to want to take this further, so the
ruling will stand. It's his choice, but it could be a very bad
deterrent to other potential exit node
On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 5:53 AM, Moritz Bartl mor...@torservers.net
wrote:
On 07/02/2014 11:00 PM, Anders Andersson wrote:
Unfortunately he doesn't seem to want to take this further, so the
ruling will stand. It's his choice, but it could be a very bad
deterrent to other potential exit
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On 7/3/2014 4:16 PM, Anders Andersson wrote:
On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 5:53 AM, Moritz Bartl
mor...@torservers.net wrote:
On 07/02/2014 11:00 PM, Anders Andersson wrote:
Unfortunately he doesn't seem to want to take this further, so
the ruling will
(Thread start:
https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2014-July/033573.html
)
On 7/3/14, Anders Andersson pipat...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 5:53 AM, Moritz Bartl mor...@torservers.net wrote:
On 07/02/2014 11:00 PM, Anders Andersson wrote:
Unfortunately he doesn't seem
On 7/3/2014 10:34 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
Agreed, great news.
In hindsight, it is clear that we as a community have an interest to
build a resource of amicus curiae briefs - friend of the court briefs.
So PLEASE make moves in the direction of contributing and collecting
documents which may
3, 2014 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Tor Exit Operator convicted in Austrian lower court
On 7/3/2014 10:34 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
Agreed, great news.
In hindsight, it is clear that we as a community have an interest to
build a resource of amicus curiae briefs - friend of the court
Hey!
On 02 Jul 2014, at 03:49, C B cb...@yahoo.com wrote:
in no way makes Montblac, Southworth, or Smith's Stationary the least bit
responsible for the bank robbery. This ruling is a clear lack of
understanding of how the Internet and Tor work.
I totally agree. It contradicts Austrian
We'll see how that continues.
https://rdns.im/court-official-statement-part-1
Apparently the operator is in need of a substantial heads up and
financial boost.
From what has been reported the judgement seems to be based on a
misapplied article in order to justify a conviction.
--
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On 7/2/2014 2:54 PM, MacLemon wrote:
Hey!
On 02 Jul 2014, at 03:49, C B cb...@yahoo.com wrote:
in no way makes Montblac, Southworth, or Smith's Stationary the
least bit responsible for the bank robbery. This ruling is a
clear lack of
That is nonsense. Why not arrest the owners of a stainless steel blade
factory, because some people stab other people with those blades.
Okay .. try giving knives away anonymously out of the back of your garage and
let us know how you make out.
tl;dr .. don't tell the world to use TOR for
: Tuesday, July 1, 2014 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Tor Exit Operator convicted in Austrian lower court
On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 10:42 PM, ba...@clovermail.net wrote:
There are little details on this case:
https://network23.org/blackoutaustria/2014/07/01/to-whom-it-may-concern-english-version
On 7/2/2014 11:10 AM, Michael O Holstein wrote:
That is nonsense. Why not arrest the owners of a stainless steel blade
factory, because some people stab other people with those blades.
Okay .. try giving knives away anonymously out of the back of your garage and
let us know how you make out.
Am 2014-07-02 17:56, schrieb s7r:
On 7/2/2014 2:54 PM, MacLemon wrote:
Hey!
On 02 Jul 2014, at 03:49, C B cb...@yahoo.com wrote:
in no way makes Montblac, Southworth, or Smith's Stationary the
least bit responsible for the bank robbery. This ruling is a
clear lack of understanding of how
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On 7/2/2014 7:10 PM, Michael O Holstein wrote:
That is nonsense. Why not arrest the owners of a stainless steel
blade factory, because some people stab other people with those
blades.
Okay .. try giving knives away anonymously out of the back of
Hey!
On 02 Jul 2014, at 17:56, s7r s...@sky-ip.org wrote:
Signed PGP part
On 7/2/2014 2:54 PM, MacLemon wrote:
The subject of this attracted my attention. Are we talking here about
a clear law, written black on white which states that it is illegal to
run Tor relays (or any kind of
On 07/02/2014 12:42 AM, ba...@clovermail.net wrote:
There are little details on this case:
https://network23.org/blackoutaustria/2014/07/01/to-whom-it-may-concern-english-version/
Does the Tor project has a defense support fund or a list of committed
pro bono lawyers in different countries
Unfortunately he doesn't seem to want to take this further, so the
ruling will stand. It's his choice, but it could be a very bad
deterrent to other potential exit node operators in Austria.
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 10:54 PM, Moritz Bartl mor...@torservers.net wrote:
On 07/02/2014 12:42 AM,
To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2014 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Tor Exit Operator convicted in Austrian lower court
Hey!
On 02 Jul 2014, at 17:56, s7r s...@sky-ip.org wrote:
Signed PGP part
On 7/2/2014 2:54 PM, MacLemon wrote:
The subject of this attracted my
On 7/2/2014 2:21 PM, MacLemon wrote:
Hey!
On 02 Jul 2014, at 17:56, s7r s...@sky-ip.org wrote:
Signed PGP part
On 7/2/2014 2:54 PM, MacLemon wrote:
The subject of this attracted my attention. Are we talking here about
a clear law, written black on white which states that it is illegal to
run
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On 7/3/2014 3:03 AM, Joe Btfsplk wrote:
On 7/2/2014 2:21 PM, MacLemon wrote:
Hey!
On 02 Jul 2014, at 17:56, s7r s...@sky-ip.org wrote:
Signed PGP part On 7/2/2014 2:54 PM, MacLemon wrote: The
subject of this attracted my attention. Are we
On 07/02/2014 11:00 PM, Anders Andersson wrote:
Unfortunately he doesn't seem to want to take this further, so the
ruling will stand. It's his choice, but it could be a very bad
deterrent to other potential exit node operators in Austria.
We are in contact with William, and quite possibly
There are little details on this case:
https://network23.org/blackoutaustria/2014/07/01/to-whom-it-may-concern-english-version/
Does the Tor project has a defense support fund or a list of committed
pro bono lawyers in different countries for such cases?
for the traffic that was delivered.
--
Christopher Booth
From: ba...@clovermail.net ba...@clovermail.net
To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 1, 2014 6:42 PM
Subject: [tor-talk] Tor Exit Operator convicted in Austrian lower court
There are little
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