[Touch-packages] [Bug 1885730] Re: Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

2020-08-03 Thread Balint Reczey
I've added the OEM Solutions Group team for awareness. I'm not sure what
the final fix will be since servers' and desktops'/laptops' ideal
default seem to be different, but most likely the certification tests
should be adjusted if we don't end up restoring the previous behaviour
of the ondemand.service unconditionally.

The latest LTS release, 20.04 is not affected so the certification test
changes are probably not very urgent.

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Title:
  Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for
  pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

Status in linux package in Ubuntu:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd package in Ubuntu:
  Invalid
Status in linux source package in Focal:
  New
Status in systemd source package in Focal:
  Fix Released
Status in linux source package in Groovy:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd source package in Groovy:
  Invalid

Bug description:
  In a recent merge from Debian we lost ondemand.service, meaning all
  CPUs now run in Turbo all the time when idle, which is clearly
  suboptimal.

  The discussion in bug 1806012 seems misleading, focusing on p-state vs
  other drivers, when in fact, the script actually set the default
  governor for the pstate driver on platforms that use pstate.
  Everything below only looks at systems that use pstate.

  pstate has two governors: performance and powerstate. performance runs
  CPU at maximum frequency constantly, and powersave can be configured
  using various energy profiles energy profiles:

  - performance
  - balanced performance
  - balanced power
  - power

  It defaults to balanced performance, I think, but I'm not sure.

  Whether performance governor is faster than powersave governor is not
  even clear.
  https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux50-pstate-
  cpufreq=5 benchmarked them, but did not benchmark the individual
  energy profiles.

  For a desktop/laptop, the expected behavior is the powersave governor
  with balanced_performance on AC and balanced_power on battery.

  I don't know about servers or VMs, but the benchmark series seems to
  indicate it does not really matter much performance wise.

  I think most other distributions configure their kernels to use the
  powersave governor by default, whereas we configure it to use the
  performance governor and then switch it later in the boot to get the
  maximum performance during bootup. It's not clear to me that's
  actually useful.

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[Touch-packages] [Bug 1885730] Re: Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

2020-08-03 Thread Balint Reczey
** Also affects: linux (Ubuntu Focal)
   Importance: Undecided
   Status: New

** Also affects: systemd (Ubuntu Focal)
   Importance: Undecided
   Status: New

** Changed in: systemd (Ubuntu Focal)
   Status: New => Fix Released

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Title:
  Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for
  pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

Status in linux package in Ubuntu:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd package in Ubuntu:
  Invalid
Status in linux source package in Focal:
  New
Status in systemd source package in Focal:
  Fix Released
Status in linux source package in Groovy:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd source package in Groovy:
  Invalid

Bug description:
  In a recent merge from Debian we lost ondemand.service, meaning all
  CPUs now run in Turbo all the time when idle, which is clearly
  suboptimal.

  The discussion in bug 1806012 seems misleading, focusing on p-state vs
  other drivers, when in fact, the script actually set the default
  governor for the pstate driver on platforms that use pstate.
  Everything below only looks at systems that use pstate.

  pstate has two governors: performance and powerstate. performance runs
  CPU at maximum frequency constantly, and powersave can be configured
  using various energy profiles energy profiles:

  - performance
  - balanced performance
  - balanced power
  - power

  It defaults to balanced performance, I think, but I'm not sure.

  Whether performance governor is faster than powersave governor is not
  even clear.
  https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux50-pstate-
  cpufreq=5 benchmarked them, but did not benchmark the individual
  energy profiles.

  For a desktop/laptop, the expected behavior is the powersave governor
  with balanced_performance on AC and balanced_power on battery.

  I don't know about servers or VMs, but the benchmark series seems to
  indicate it does not really matter much performance wise.

  I think most other distributions configure their kernels to use the
  powersave governor by default, whereas we configure it to use the
  performance governor and then switch it later in the boot to get the
  maximum performance during bootup. It's not clear to me that's
  actually useful.

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
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[Touch-packages] [Bug 1885730] Re: Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

2020-07-30 Thread Dan Streetman
> In benchmarking we didn't observe much computational difference
between the too once the CPU is fully loaded. However, cranking up or
cranking down the load one will discover that the performance setting is
more responsive than powersave.

this is exactly the problem in production environments; workloads can be
'bursty' which can see not-insignificant performance reduction when
using powersave. Many enterprise users even go so far as to disable
C-states (and ASPM, and APST, etc...).

> It makes sense to default to powersave for most scenarios, especially
for laptop users.

for laptop users, yeah. I question if 'most scenarios' is accurate.

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Title:
  Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for
  pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

Status in linux package in Ubuntu:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd package in Ubuntu:
  Invalid
Status in linux source package in Groovy:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd source package in Groovy:
  Invalid

Bug description:
  In a recent merge from Debian we lost ondemand.service, meaning all
  CPUs now run in Turbo all the time when idle, which is clearly
  suboptimal.

  The discussion in bug 1806012 seems misleading, focusing on p-state vs
  other drivers, when in fact, the script actually set the default
  governor for the pstate driver on platforms that use pstate.
  Everything below only looks at systems that use pstate.

  pstate has two governors: performance and powerstate. performance runs
  CPU at maximum frequency constantly, and powersave can be configured
  using various energy profiles energy profiles:

  - performance
  - balanced performance
  - balanced power
  - power

  It defaults to balanced performance, I think, but I'm not sure.

  Whether performance governor is faster than powersave governor is not
  even clear.
  https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux50-pstate-
  cpufreq=5 benchmarked them, but did not benchmark the individual
  energy profiles.

  For a desktop/laptop, the expected behavior is the powersave governor
  with balanced_performance on AC and balanced_power on battery.

  I don't know about servers or VMs, but the benchmark series seems to
  indicate it does not really matter much performance wise.

  I think most other distributions configure their kernels to use the
  powersave governor by default, whereas we configure it to use the
  performance governor and then switch it later in the boot to get the
  maximum performance during bootup. It's not clear to me that's
  actually useful.

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
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[Touch-packages] [Bug 1885730] Re: Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

2020-07-30 Thread Dan Streetman
> I would suggest switching back to powersave/ondemand either with a new
service or the kernel config.

re: new service, the existing package cpufrequtils (and related package
cpufreqd) provides a configurable service to manage governor settings
(and other related settings).  The old ondemand service was not
configurable at all and caused quite a bit of unexpected problems, as
well as 'battling' (overriding) the cpufrequtils service when it was
installed.

> Having a dedicated service could be confusing for people who try to
change the kernel settings.

indeed, it was, especially when there were multiple services to (try to)
control the settings that conflicted with each other.

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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1885730

Title:
  Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for
  pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

Status in linux package in Ubuntu:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd package in Ubuntu:
  Invalid
Status in linux source package in Groovy:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd source package in Groovy:
  Invalid

Bug description:
  In a recent merge from Debian we lost ondemand.service, meaning all
  CPUs now run in Turbo all the time when idle, which is clearly
  suboptimal.

  The discussion in bug 1806012 seems misleading, focusing on p-state vs
  other drivers, when in fact, the script actually set the default
  governor for the pstate driver on platforms that use pstate.
  Everything below only looks at systems that use pstate.

  pstate has two governors: performance and powerstate. performance runs
  CPU at maximum frequency constantly, and powersave can be configured
  using various energy profiles energy profiles:

  - performance
  - balanced performance
  - balanced power
  - power

  It defaults to balanced performance, I think, but I'm not sure.

  Whether performance governor is faster than powersave governor is not
  even clear.
  https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux50-pstate-
  cpufreq=5 benchmarked them, but did not benchmark the individual
  energy profiles.

  For a desktop/laptop, the expected behavior is the powersave governor
  with balanced_performance on AC and balanced_power on battery.

  I don't know about servers or VMs, but the benchmark series seems to
  indicate it does not really matter much performance wise.

  I think most other distributions configure their kernels to use the
  powersave governor by default, whereas we configure it to use the
  performance governor and then switch it later in the boot to get the
  maximum performance during bootup. It's not clear to me that's
  actually useful.

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
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[Touch-packages] [Bug 1885730] Re: Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

2020-07-30 Thread Matthieu Baerts
Hello!

Regarding the comment #8, I didn't get the same positive experience on
my side. It was more closer to what is described in comment #9. See bug
1889479 for more details.

I would suggest switching back to powersave/ondemand either with a new
service or the kernel config. Having a dedicated service could be
confusing for people who try to change the kernel settings. But it could
be more flexible.

Cheers,
Matt

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You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1885730

Title:
  Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for
  pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

Status in linux package in Ubuntu:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd package in Ubuntu:
  Invalid
Status in linux source package in Groovy:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd source package in Groovy:
  Invalid

Bug description:
  In a recent merge from Debian we lost ondemand.service, meaning all
  CPUs now run in Turbo all the time when idle, which is clearly
  suboptimal.

  The discussion in bug 1806012 seems misleading, focusing on p-state vs
  other drivers, when in fact, the script actually set the default
  governor for the pstate driver on platforms that use pstate.
  Everything below only looks at systems that use pstate.

  pstate has two governors: performance and powerstate. performance runs
  CPU at maximum frequency constantly, and powersave can be configured
  using various energy profiles energy profiles:

  - performance
  - balanced performance
  - balanced power
  - power

  It defaults to balanced performance, I think, but I'm not sure.

  Whether performance governor is faster than powersave governor is not
  even clear.
  https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux50-pstate-
  cpufreq=5 benchmarked them, but did not benchmark the individual
  energy profiles.

  For a desktop/laptop, the expected behavior is the powersave governor
  with balanced_performance on AC and balanced_power on battery.

  I don't know about servers or VMs, but the benchmark series seems to
  indicate it does not really matter much performance wise.

  I think most other distributions configure their kernels to use the
  powersave governor by default, whereas we configure it to use the
  performance governor and then switch it later in the boot to get the
  maximum performance during bootup. It's not clear to me that's
  actually useful.

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
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[Touch-packages] [Bug 1885730] Re: Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

2020-07-24 Thread Dimitri John Ledkov
@colin-king @juliank

It feels to me that the oem flavour should default to
(powersave/ondemand), as it is more-or-less laptop kernel flavour.

I feel like generic kernel flavour should remain on performance.

I feel like we should have a unit, that for chassis=laptop turns on
(powersave/ondemand). Possibly shipped in like procps package. Or there
should be like graphical desktop integration to control this (aka game
mode).

Is there a per-chasis type setting in kernel? as in something like
CONFIG_WHEN_ON_LAPTOP_DEFAULT_GOV_* ?

Do above actionable things make sense?

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You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1885730

Title:
  Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for
  pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

Status in linux package in Ubuntu:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd package in Ubuntu:
  Invalid
Status in linux source package in Groovy:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd source package in Groovy:
  Invalid

Bug description:
  In a recent merge from Debian we lost ondemand.service, meaning all
  CPUs now run in Turbo all the time when idle, which is clearly
  suboptimal.

  The discussion in bug 1806012 seems misleading, focusing on p-state vs
  other drivers, when in fact, the script actually set the default
  governor for the pstate driver on platforms that use pstate.
  Everything below only looks at systems that use pstate.

  pstate has two governors: performance and powerstate. performance runs
  CPU at maximum frequency constantly, and powersave can be configured
  using various energy profiles energy profiles:

  - performance
  - balanced performance
  - balanced power
  - power

  It defaults to balanced performance, I think, but I'm not sure.

  Whether performance governor is faster than powersave governor is not
  even clear.
  https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux50-pstate-
  cpufreq=5 benchmarked them, but did not benchmark the individual
  energy profiles.

  For a desktop/laptop, the expected behavior is the powersave governor
  with balanced_performance on AC and balanced_power on battery.

  I don't know about servers or VMs, but the benchmark series seems to
  indicate it does not really matter much performance wise.

  I think most other distributions configure their kernels to use the
  powersave governor by default, whereas we configure it to use the
  performance governor and then switch it later in the boot to get the
  maximum performance during bootup. It's not clear to me that's
  actually useful.

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
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[Touch-packages] [Bug 1885730] Re: Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

2020-07-24 Thread Julian Andres Klode
@Colin: I agree with all of that.

Our kernel-side default is not powersave, but performance, across
generic and oem, at the very least:

$ grep CPU_FREQ_DEFAULT_GOV_.*=y /boot/config-5.*
/boot/config-5.4.0-26-generic:CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_DEFAULT_GOV_PERFORMANCE=y
/boot/config-5.4.0-42-generic:CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_DEFAULT_GOV_PERFORMANCE=y
/boot/config-5.6.0-1018-oem:CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_DEFAULT_GOV_PERFORMANCE=y
/boot/config-5.6.0-1020-oem:CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_DEFAULT_GOV_PERFORMANCE=y

We used to set that to powersave (and ondemand on non-pstate) in
ondemand.service, but have since removed the service in groovy.

I believe the default governor kernel-side outside Ubuntu is usually
CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_DEFAULT_GOV_ONDEMAND, which translates to ondemand pre-
pstates, and powersave on pstates (compare Fedora), whereas Enterprise
systems usually pick PERFORMANCE too (compare RHEL)

- probably because most distributions focus on normal end users and
enterprise on server and workstation. We don't have that distinction of
course, so I'm not sure what the best way out is - default to
powersave/ondemand and make server installer write performance - or vice
versa default to performance and make ubiquity configure powersave for
desktop.

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You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1885730

Title:
  Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for
  pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

Status in linux package in Ubuntu:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd package in Ubuntu:
  Invalid
Status in linux source package in Groovy:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd source package in Groovy:
  Invalid

Bug description:
  In a recent merge from Debian we lost ondemand.service, meaning all
  CPUs now run in Turbo all the time when idle, which is clearly
  suboptimal.

  The discussion in bug 1806012 seems misleading, focusing on p-state vs
  other drivers, when in fact, the script actually set the default
  governor for the pstate driver on platforms that use pstate.
  Everything below only looks at systems that use pstate.

  pstate has two governors: performance and powerstate. performance runs
  CPU at maximum frequency constantly, and powersave can be configured
  using various energy profiles energy profiles:

  - performance
  - balanced performance
  - balanced power
  - power

  It defaults to balanced performance, I think, but I'm not sure.

  Whether performance governor is faster than powersave governor is not
  even clear.
  https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux50-pstate-
  cpufreq=5 benchmarked them, but did not benchmark the individual
  energy profiles.

  For a desktop/laptop, the expected behavior is the powersave governor
  with balanced_performance on AC and balanced_power on battery.

  I don't know about servers or VMs, but the benchmark series seems to
  indicate it does not really matter much performance wise.

  I think most other distributions configure their kernels to use the
  powersave governor by default, whereas we configure it to use the
  performance governor and then switch it later in the boot to get the
  maximum performance during bootup. It's not clear to me that's
  actually useful.

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
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[Touch-packages] [Bug 1885730] Re: Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

2020-07-24 Thread Colin Ian King
The choice was made from running analysis on a wide range of Intel
machines, old and new. We are trying to select the optimal choice for a
wide range of CPUs for a wide range of use cases. Generally speaking,
the intel-pstate governor has deeper understanding of the processor
features and can access CPU metrics that can guide it to making an
informed choice.

>From our understanding, The intel-pstate driver should be the optimal
choice for Intel Sandy Bridge CPUs onwards.  The intel-pstate driver
supports only the performance and powersave governors. In benchmarking
we didn't observe much computational difference between the too once the
CPU is fully loaded. However, cranking up or cranking down the load one
will discover that the performance setting is more responsive than
powersave. The overall compute throughput when fully loaded is the same,
it's just a case that powersave may take a little longer to crank up to
the full speed.

It makes sense to default to powersave for most scenarios, especially
for laptop users.

Pre-Intel Sandy Bridge or non-x86 CPUs will default back to the non-
intel pstate governor.

So, question:

Which kernel(s) are you referring to?

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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1885730

Title:
  Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for
  pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

Status in linux package in Ubuntu:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd package in Ubuntu:
  Invalid
Status in linux source package in Groovy:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd source package in Groovy:
  Invalid

Bug description:
  In a recent merge from Debian we lost ondemand.service, meaning all
  CPUs now run in Turbo all the time when idle, which is clearly
  suboptimal.

  The discussion in bug 1806012 seems misleading, focusing on p-state vs
  other drivers, when in fact, the script actually set the default
  governor for the pstate driver on platforms that use pstate.
  Everything below only looks at systems that use pstate.

  pstate has two governors: performance and powerstate. performance runs
  CPU at maximum frequency constantly, and powersave can be configured
  using various energy profiles energy profiles:

  - performance
  - balanced performance
  - balanced power
  - power

  It defaults to balanced performance, I think, but I'm not sure.

  Whether performance governor is faster than powersave governor is not
  even clear.
  https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux50-pstate-
  cpufreq=5 benchmarked them, but did not benchmark the individual
  energy profiles.

  For a desktop/laptop, the expected behavior is the powersave governor
  with balanced_performance on AC and balanced_power on battery.

  I don't know about servers or VMs, but the benchmark series seems to
  indicate it does not really matter much performance wise.

  I think most other distributions configure their kernels to use the
  powersave governor by default, whereas we configure it to use the
  performance governor and then switch it later in the boot to get the
  maximum performance during bootup. It's not clear to me that's
  actually useful.

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
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[Touch-packages] [Bug 1885730] Re: Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

2020-07-22 Thread Julian Andres Klode
passing intel_pstate=disable_hwp on the kernel commandline causes the
kernel to scale the Core i5-8250U down to 1.6 GHz in performance mode,
but that's still a bit off from the 900 MHz it scales down to in
powersave mode.

I believe Windows also does not run the CPUs in performance mode by
default on mobile devices (but in balanced or balanced performance), I
don't know about stationary ones.

Performance governor on laptops should be restricted to gamemode.

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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1885730

Title:
  Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for
  pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

Status in linux package in Ubuntu:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd package in Ubuntu:
  Invalid
Status in linux source package in Groovy:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd source package in Groovy:
  Invalid

Bug description:
  In a recent merge from Debian we lost ondemand.service, meaning all
  CPUs now run in Turbo all the time when idle, which is clearly
  suboptimal.

  The discussion in bug 1806012 seems misleading, focusing on p-state vs
  other drivers, when in fact, the script actually set the default
  governor for the pstate driver on platforms that use pstate.
  Everything below only looks at systems that use pstate.

  pstate has two governors: performance and powerstate. performance runs
  CPU at maximum frequency constantly, and powersave can be configured
  using various energy profiles energy profiles:

  - performance
  - balanced performance
  - balanced power
  - power

  It defaults to balanced performance, I think, but I'm not sure.

  Whether performance governor is faster than powersave governor is not
  even clear.
  https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux50-pstate-
  cpufreq=5 benchmarked them, but did not benchmark the individual
  energy profiles.

  For a desktop/laptop, the expected behavior is the powersave governor
  with balanced_performance on AC and balanced_power on battery.

  I don't know about servers or VMs, but the benchmark series seems to
  indicate it does not really matter much performance wise.

  I think most other distributions configure their kernels to use the
  powersave governor by default, whereas we configure it to use the
  performance governor and then switch it later in the boot to get the
  maximum performance during bootup. It's not clear to me that's
  actually useful.

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
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[Touch-packages] [Bug 1885730] Re: Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

2020-07-22 Thread Julian Andres Klode
The performance governor is the right choice for servers, but it's not
the right choice on non-server platforms, it's also not the default
kernel setting, it was set because we have the ondemand.service in
userspace that can change it back to ondemand (or well we have the
service because of that change in the kernel :D).

Fans do not necessarily spin, and you might not actually notice any
significant changes in power usage, but the expectation of a desktop
user is that the CPU scales its frequencies down, which recent-ish Intel
CPUs (Skylake+) on like a ThinkPad T480s - which manage the pstates in
hardware instead of software like the old MacBook does - don't do.

If we compare this to Red Hat, what they do is
CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_DEFAULT_GOV_PERFORMANCE=y in RHEL and
CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_DEFAULT_GOV_ONDEMAND=y in fedora.

Power usage, at 3-6% CPU usage:

Powersave: I see 0.9-1.4W power usage on the cores
Performance, I see 1.6-2.5W

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Title:
  Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for
  pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

Status in linux package in Ubuntu:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd package in Ubuntu:
  Invalid
Status in linux source package in Groovy:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd source package in Groovy:
  Invalid

Bug description:
  In a recent merge from Debian we lost ondemand.service, meaning all
  CPUs now run in Turbo all the time when idle, which is clearly
  suboptimal.

  The discussion in bug 1806012 seems misleading, focusing on p-state vs
  other drivers, when in fact, the script actually set the default
  governor for the pstate driver on platforms that use pstate.
  Everything below only looks at systems that use pstate.

  pstate has two governors: performance and powerstate. performance runs
  CPU at maximum frequency constantly, and powersave can be configured
  using various energy profiles energy profiles:

  - performance
  - balanced performance
  - balanced power
  - power

  It defaults to balanced performance, I think, but I'm not sure.

  Whether performance governor is faster than powersave governor is not
  even clear.
  https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux50-pstate-
  cpufreq=5 benchmarked them, but did not benchmark the individual
  energy profiles.

  For a desktop/laptop, the expected behavior is the powersave governor
  with balanced_performance on AC and balanced_power on battery.

  I don't know about servers or VMs, but the benchmark series seems to
  indicate it does not really matter much performance wise.

  I think most other distributions configure their kernels to use the
  powersave governor by default, whereas we configure it to use the
  performance governor and then switch it later in the boot to get the
  maximum performance during bootup. It's not clear to me that's
  actually useful.

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
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[Touch-packages] [Bug 1885730] Re: Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

2020-07-17 Thread Balint Reczey
I have a freshly installed 20.10 system running on a 2012 MacBook Air
(MBA 5,2) and it is completely silent and cold when being idle:

rbalint@chaos:~$ sudo cpupower frequency-info
analyzing CPU 0:
  driver: intel_pstate
  CPUs which run at the same hardware frequency: 0
  CPUs which need to have their frequency coordinated by software: 0
  maximum transition latency:  Cannot determine or is not supported.
  hardware limits: 800 MHz - 2.80 GHz
  available cpufreq governors: performance powersave
  current policy: frequency should be within 800 MHz and 2.80 GHz.
  The governor "performance" may decide which speed to use
  within this range.
  current CPU frequency: Unable to call hardware
  current CPU frequency: 915 MHz (asserted by call to kernel)
  boost state support:
Supported: yes
Active: yes
2600 MHz max turbo 4 active cores
2600 MHz max turbo 3 active cores
2600 MHz max turbo 2 active cores
2800 MHz max turbo 1 active cores


@seb128, @juliank I'm not sure if there is anything to fix in the user space, 
but please report which laptops you experienced issues with. Those may need 
firmware/kernel fixes.


** Changed in: systemd (Ubuntu Groovy)
   Status: New => Invalid

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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1885730

Title:
  Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for
  pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

Status in linux package in Ubuntu:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd package in Ubuntu:
  Invalid
Status in linux source package in Groovy:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd source package in Groovy:
  Invalid

Bug description:
  In a recent merge from Debian we lost ondemand.service, meaning all
  CPUs now run in Turbo all the time when idle, which is clearly
  suboptimal.

  The discussion in bug 1806012 seems misleading, focusing on p-state vs
  other drivers, when in fact, the script actually set the default
  governor for the pstate driver on platforms that use pstate.
  Everything below only looks at systems that use pstate.

  pstate has two governors: performance and powerstate. performance runs
  CPU at maximum frequency constantly, and powersave can be configured
  using various energy profiles energy profiles:

  - performance
  - balanced performance
  - balanced power
  - power

  It defaults to balanced performance, I think, but I'm not sure.

  Whether performance governor is faster than powersave governor is not
  even clear.
  https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux50-pstate-
  cpufreq=5 benchmarked them, but did not benchmark the individual
  energy profiles.

  For a desktop/laptop, the expected behavior is the powersave governor
  with balanced_performance on AC and balanced_power on battery.

  I don't know about servers or VMs, but the benchmark series seems to
  indicate it does not really matter much performance wise.

  I think most other distributions configure their kernels to use the
  powersave governor by default, whereas we configure it to use the
  performance governor and then switch it later in the boot to get the
  maximum performance during bootup. It's not clear to me that's
  actually useful.

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
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[Touch-packages] [Bug 1885730] Re: Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

2020-07-03 Thread Francis Ginther
** Tags added: id-5efdfa465220b783b19272c2

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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1885730

Title:
  Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for
  pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

Status in linux package in Ubuntu:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd package in Ubuntu:
  New
Status in linux source package in Groovy:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd source package in Groovy:
  New

Bug description:
  In a recent merge from Debian we lost ondemand.service, meaning all
  CPUs now run in Turbo all the time when idle, which is clearly
  suboptimal.

  The discussion in bug 1806012 seems misleading, focusing on p-state vs
  other drivers, when in fact, the script actually set the default
  governor for the pstate driver on platforms that use pstate.
  Everything below only looks at systems that use pstate.

  pstate has two governors: performance and powerstate. performance runs
  CPU at maximum frequency constantly, and powersave can be configured
  using various energy profiles energy profiles:

  - performance
  - balanced performance
  - balanced power
  - power

  It defaults to balanced performance, I think, but I'm not sure.

  Whether performance governor is faster than powersave governor is not
  even clear.
  https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux50-pstate-
  cpufreq=5 benchmarked them, but did not benchmark the individual
  energy profiles.

  For a desktop/laptop, the expected behavior is the powersave governor
  with balanced_performance on AC and balanced_power on battery.

  I don't know about servers or VMs, but the benchmark series seems to
  indicate it does not really matter much performance wise.

  I think most other distributions configure their kernels to use the
  powersave governor by default, whereas we configure it to use the
  performance governor and then switch it later in the boot to get the
  maximum performance during bootup. It's not clear to me that's
  actually useful.

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
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[Touch-packages] [Bug 1885730] Re: Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

2020-07-02 Thread Balint Reczey
@xnox @juliank IMO there is no real need for different boot time and
post-boot governor.

I think where we would like to save power or be less noisy the
(possibly) faster boot does not have huge impact on user satisfaction.

I agree that fans should not be on all the time in laptops/desktops.

If we agree that there is no need for separate boot time and post-boot
governor then I think the proper place to set the right default is the
kernel.

I'd love to hear the Kernel Team's opinion on the matter because there
were quite of lot of discussions in
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1579278 .

-- 
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1885730

Title:
  Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for
  pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

Status in linux package in Ubuntu:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd package in Ubuntu:
  New
Status in linux source package in Groovy:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd source package in Groovy:
  New

Bug description:
  In a recent merge from Debian we lost ondemand.service, meaning all
  CPUs now run in Turbo all the time when idle, which is clearly
  suboptimal.

  The discussion in bug 1806012 seems misleading, focusing on p-state vs
  other drivers, when in fact, the script actually set the default
  governor for the pstate driver on platforms that use pstate.
  Everything below only looks at systems that use pstate.

  pstate has two governors: performance and powerstate. performance runs
  CPU at maximum frequency constantly, and powersave can be configured
  using various energy profiles energy profiles:

  - performance
  - balanced performance
  - balanced power
  - power

  It defaults to balanced performance, I think, but I'm not sure.

  Whether performance governor is faster than powersave governor is not
  even clear.
  https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux50-pstate-
  cpufreq=5 benchmarked them, but did not benchmark the individual
  energy profiles.

  For a desktop/laptop, the expected behavior is the powersave governor
  with balanced_performance on AC and balanced_power on battery.

  I don't know about servers or VMs, but the benchmark series seems to
  indicate it does not really matter much performance wise.

  I think most other distributions configure their kernels to use the
  powersave governor by default, whereas we configure it to use the
  performance governor and then switch it later in the boot to get the
  maximum performance during bootup. It's not clear to me that's
  actually useful.

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1885730/+subscriptions

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[Touch-packages] [Bug 1885730] Re: Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

2020-07-02 Thread Brian Murray
** Also affects: linux (Ubuntu Groovy)
   Importance: Undecided
   Status: Confirmed

** Also affects: systemd (Ubuntu Groovy)
   Importance: Undecided
   Status: New

** Tags removed: rls-gg-incoming

-- 
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1885730

Title:
  Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for
  pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

Status in linux package in Ubuntu:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd package in Ubuntu:
  New
Status in linux source package in Groovy:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd source package in Groovy:
  New

Bug description:
  In a recent merge from Debian we lost ondemand.service, meaning all
  CPUs now run in Turbo all the time when idle, which is clearly
  suboptimal.

  The discussion in bug 1806012 seems misleading, focusing on p-state vs
  other drivers, when in fact, the script actually set the default
  governor for the pstate driver on platforms that use pstate.
  Everything below only looks at systems that use pstate.

  pstate has two governors: performance and powerstate. performance runs
  CPU at maximum frequency constantly, and powersave can be configured
  using various energy profiles energy profiles:

  - performance
  - balanced performance
  - balanced power
  - power

  It defaults to balanced performance, I think, but I'm not sure.

  Whether performance governor is faster than powersave governor is not
  even clear.
  https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux50-pstate-
  cpufreq=5 benchmarked them, but did not benchmark the individual
  energy profiles.

  For a desktop/laptop, the expected behavior is the powersave governor
  with balanced_performance on AC and balanced_power on battery.

  I don't know about servers or VMs, but the benchmark series seems to
  indicate it does not really matter much performance wise.

  I think most other distributions configure their kernels to use the
  powersave governor by default, whereas we configure it to use the
  performance governor and then switch it later in the boot to get the
  maximum performance during bootup. It's not clear to me that's
  actually useful.

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1885730/+subscriptions

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[Touch-packages] [Bug 1885730] Re: Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

2020-07-02 Thread Julian Andres Klode
** Changed in: linux (Ubuntu)
   Status: Incomplete => New

** Changed in: linux (Ubuntu)
   Status: New => Confirmed

-- 
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1885730

Title:
  Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for
  pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

Status in linux package in Ubuntu:
  Confirmed
Status in systemd package in Ubuntu:
  New

Bug description:
  In a recent merge from Debian we lost ondemand.service, meaning all
  CPUs now run in Turbo all the time when idle, which is clearly
  suboptimal.

  The discussion in bug 1806012 seems misleading, focusing on p-state vs
  other drivers, when in fact, the script actually set the default
  governor for the pstate driver on platforms that use pstate.
  Everything below only looks at systems that use pstate.

  pstate has two governors: performance and powerstate. performance runs
  CPU at maximum frequency constantly, and powersave can be configured
  using various energy profiles energy profiles:

  - performance
  - balanced performance
  - balanced power
  - power

  It defaults to balanced performance, I think, but I'm not sure.

  Whether performance governor is faster than powersave governor is not
  even clear.
  https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux50-pstate-
  cpufreq=5 benchmarked them, but did not benchmark the individual
  energy profiles.

  For a desktop/laptop, the expected behavior is the powersave governor
  with balanced_performance on AC and balanced_power on battery.

  I don't know about servers or VMs, but the benchmark series seems to
  indicate it does not really matter much performance wise.

  I think most other distributions configure their kernels to use the
  powersave governor by default, whereas we configure it to use the
  performance governor and then switch it later in the boot to get the
  maximum performance during bootup. It's not clear to me that's
  actually useful.

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1885730/+subscriptions

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[Touch-packages] [Bug 1885730] Re: Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

2020-06-30 Thread Julian Andres Klode
@rbalint As said before the kernel messages and bugs are irrelevant and
wrong. They pretend like intel_pstate is different, when in fact it's
this script that is configuring it here. And yes, it needs OS config.

Nor do other distros not do this, but we do it differently. We set the
CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_DEFAULT_GOV_PERFORMANCE=y option, and then transition to
that at the end of the boot. Other distributions do not set
CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_DEFAULT_GOV_PERFORMANCE and hence the kernel has
powersave as the default.

By removing this script, we are diverging from other distros, not
becoming closer to them - for pstates, anyway.

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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1885730

Title:
  Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for
  pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

Status in linux package in Ubuntu:
  Incomplete
Status in systemd package in Ubuntu:
  New

Bug description:
  In a recent merge from Debian we lost ondemand.service, meaning all
  CPUs now run in Turbo all the time when idle, which is clearly
  suboptimal.

  The discussion in bug 1806012 seems misleading, focusing on p-state vs
  other drivers, when in fact, the script actually set the default
  governor for the pstate driver on platforms that use pstate.
  Everything below only looks at systems that use pstate.

  pstate has two governors: performance and powerstate. performance runs
  CPU at maximum frequency constantly, and powersave can be configured
  using various energy profiles energy profiles:

  - performance
  - balanced performance
  - balanced power
  - power

  It defaults to balanced performance, I think, but I'm not sure.

  Whether performance governor is faster than powersave governor is not
  even clear.
  https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux50-pstate-
  cpufreq=5 benchmarked them, but did not benchmark the individual
  energy profiles.

  For a desktop/laptop, the expected behavior is the powersave governor
  with balanced_performance on AC and balanced_power on battery.

  I don't know about servers or VMs, but the benchmark series seems to
  indicate it does not really matter much performance wise.

  I think most other distributions configure their kernels to use the
  powersave governor by default, whereas we configure it to use the
  performance governor and then switch it later in the boot to get the
  maximum performance during bootup. It's not clear to me that's
  actually useful.

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1885730/+subscriptions

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[Touch-packages] [Bug 1885730] Re: Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

2020-06-30 Thread Dimitri John Ledkov
@balint

Kernel has no facility to startup in one mode, and later transition to
another.

I think maybe we should measure the difference between "performance,
then on demand" vs "balanced performance".

If the difference is not significant, maybe we can simply change the
kernel default to "balanced performance"

-- 
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1885730

Title:
  Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for
  pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

Status in linux package in Ubuntu:
  Incomplete
Status in systemd package in Ubuntu:
  New

Bug description:
  In a recent merge from Debian we lost ondemand.service, meaning all
  CPUs now run in Turbo all the time when idle, which is clearly
  suboptimal.

  The discussion in bug 1806012 seems misleading, focusing on p-state vs
  other drivers, when in fact, the script actually set the default
  governor for the pstate driver on platforms that use pstate.
  Everything below only looks at systems that use pstate.

  pstate has two governors: performance and powerstate. performance runs
  CPU at maximum frequency constantly, and powersave can be configured
  using various energy profiles energy profiles:

  - performance
  - balanced performance
  - balanced power
  - power

  It defaults to balanced performance, I think, but I'm not sure.

  Whether performance governor is faster than powersave governor is not
  even clear.
  https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux50-pstate-
  cpufreq=5 benchmarked them, but did not benchmark the individual
  energy profiles.

  For a desktop/laptop, the expected behavior is the powersave governor
  with balanced_performance on AC and balanced_power on battery.

  I don't know about servers or VMs, but the benchmark series seems to
  indicate it does not really matter much performance wise.

  I think most other distributions configure their kernels to use the
  powersave governor by default, whereas we configure it to use the
  performance governor and then switch it later in the boot to get the
  maximum performance during bootup. It's not clear to me that's
  actually useful.

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
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[Touch-packages] [Bug 1885730] Re: Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

2020-06-30 Thread Balint Reczey
The commit message removing ondemand.service has several bug references, too:
https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu/+source/systemd/commit/?id=65f46a7d14b335e5743350dbbc5b5ef1e72826f7

remove Ubuntu-specific ondemand.service
New processors handle scaling/throttling in internal firmware
(e.g. intel_pstate), and do not require OS config.

Additionally, nobody else does this, not even Debian.

And finally, this has caused problems for years, e.g.:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sysvinit/+bug/1497375
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1503773
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sysvinit/+bug/1480320
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1579278
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1806012
https://bugs.launchpad.net/charm-sysconfig/+bug/1873028


IMO the kernel is a better place for setting the default governor properly and 
can even set different governors in cloud-specific kernels.
If the decision is to control the governor in user space in Ubuntu I'd prefer a 
solution shipped in an other package because systemd does too many things 
already.

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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1885730

Title:
  Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for
  pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

Status in linux package in Ubuntu:
  Incomplete
Status in systemd package in Ubuntu:
  New

Bug description:
  In a recent merge from Debian we lost ondemand.service, meaning all
  CPUs now run in Turbo all the time when idle, which is clearly
  suboptimal.

  The discussion in bug 1806012 seems misleading, focusing on p-state vs
  other drivers, when in fact, the script actually set the default
  governor for the pstate driver on platforms that use pstate.
  Everything below only looks at systems that use pstate.

  pstate has two governors: performance and powerstate. performance runs
  CPU at maximum frequency constantly, and powersave can be configured
  using various energy profiles energy profiles:

  - performance
  - balanced performance
  - balanced power
  - power

  It defaults to balanced performance, I think, but I'm not sure.

  Whether performance governor is faster than powersave governor is not
  even clear.
  https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux50-pstate-
  cpufreq=5 benchmarked them, but did not benchmark the individual
  energy profiles.

  For a desktop/laptop, the expected behavior is the powersave governor
  with balanced_performance on AC and balanced_power on battery.

  I don't know about servers or VMs, but the benchmark series seems to
  indicate it does not really matter much performance wise.

  I think most other distributions configure their kernels to use the
  powersave governor by default, whereas we configure it to use the
  performance governor and then switch it later in the boot to get the
  maximum performance during bootup. It's not clear to me that's
  actually useful.

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1885730/+subscriptions

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[Touch-packages] [Bug 1885730] Re: Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

2020-06-30 Thread Sebastien Bacher
Tagging rls-gg-incoming so it's reviewed, that has a performance impact
on desktop and ideally should have been discussed before landing rather
than afterfact

** Tags added: rls-gg-incoming

-- 
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1885730

Title:
  Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for
  pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

Status in linux package in Ubuntu:
  Incomplete
Status in systemd package in Ubuntu:
  New

Bug description:
  In a recent merge from Debian we lost ondemand.service, meaning all
  CPUs now run in Turbo all the time when idle, which is clearly
  suboptimal.

  The discussion in bug 1806012 seems misleading, focusing on p-state vs
  other drivers, when in fact, the script actually set the default
  governor for the pstate driver on platforms that use pstate.
  Everything below only looks at systems that use pstate.

  pstate has two governors: performance and powerstate. performance runs
  CPU at maximum frequency constantly, and powersave can be configured
  using various energy profiles energy profiles:

  - performance
  - balanced performance
  - balanced power
  - power

  It defaults to balanced performance, I think, but I'm not sure.

  Whether performance governor is faster than powersave governor is not
  even clear.
  https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux50-pstate-
  cpufreq=5 benchmarked them, but did not benchmark the individual
  energy profiles.

  For a desktop/laptop, the expected behavior is the powersave governor
  with balanced_performance on AC and balanced_power on battery.

  I don't know about servers or VMs, but the benchmark series seems to
  indicate it does not really matter much performance wise.

  I think most other distributions configure their kernels to use the
  powersave governor by default, whereas we configure it to use the
  performance governor and then switch it later in the boot to get the
  maximum performance during bootup. It's not clear to me that's
  actually useful.

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1885730/+subscriptions

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[Touch-packages] [Bug 1885730] Re: Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

2020-06-30 Thread Julian Andres Klode
Someone probably needs to look at non-pstate systems as I have no idea
about them.

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Title:
  Bring back ondemand.service or switch kernel default governor for
  pstate - pstate now defaults to performance governor

Status in linux package in Ubuntu:
  Incomplete
Status in systemd package in Ubuntu:
  New

Bug description:
  In a recent merge from Debian we lost ondemand.service, meaning all
  CPUs now run in Turbo all the time when idle, which is clearly
  suboptimal.

  The discussion in bug 1806012 seems misleading, focusing on p-state vs
  other drivers, when in fact, the script actually set the default
  governor for the pstate driver on platforms that use pstate.
  Everything below only looks at systems that use pstate.

  pstate has two governors: performance and powerstate. performance runs
  CPU at maximum frequency constantly, and powersave can be configured
  using various energy profiles energy profiles:

  - performance
  - balanced performance
  - balanced power
  - power

  It defaults to balanced performance, I think, but I'm not sure.

  Whether performance governor is faster than powersave governor is not
  even clear.
  https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux50-pstate-
  cpufreq=5 benchmarked them, but did not benchmark the individual
  energy profiles.

  For a desktop/laptop, the expected behavior is the powersave governor
  with balanced_performance on AC and balanced_power on battery.

  I don't know about servers or VMs, but the benchmark series seems to
  indicate it does not really matter much performance wise.

  I think most other distributions configure their kernels to use the
  powersave governor by default, whereas we configure it to use the
  performance governor and then switch it later in the boot to get the
  maximum performance during bootup. It's not clear to me that's
  actually useful.

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