************* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org ************
Sent Saturday 19th of December 2015 by ant.phill...@post8.tele.dk (Antony Phillips)
Note that this is a resend of a message sent some years ago, and some data (like addresses) is liable to be inaccurate.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Well, I forgot to send this, dear Trommers, before I went for an early
short weekend. And the Joke is (see in a moment) that I was visiting Thom
Pearson. Well, Better late than never,
Ant
Subject:
TROM: Replay B22
Date:
Sat, 16 May 1998 09:51:59 +0200
From:
Thom Pearson <t...@get2net.dk>
To:
tro...@newciv.org
TROM Replay B22
I have asked Thom to post this, as I am away from my
computer at the moment, Ant.
Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
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Msg : 200 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From : Steve Solomon 236/174.10 Thu 03 Aug
95 18:15
To : tro...@netcom.com Fri 04 Aug
95 19:56
Subj : Re: ability exercises
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
Apparently-to: a...@jacome.ping.dk
From: ssolo...@awinc.com (Steve Solomon)
Subject: Re: ability exercises
Bill wrote:
>
>I think of auditing as being divided into at least 2 separate
>categories, "incident running" and "ability exercises". A good
>example of incident running is Book One Dianetics. Ability
>exercises, on the other hand, do not address individual incidents
>but try to raise the ability level of the being. This is really
>just _practicing_. If you practiced playing the piano for enough
>days in a row, you'd learn how to play it. Similarly, if you get
>a being to recall pictures, create mock-ups, etc. enough, he gets
>good at it -- he gains that ability.
>
>I see timebreaking as an ability that the being learns. He
>learns how to hold a picture up against present time until the
>picture is erased. Ultimately he gets so good at this that any
>picture that comes up he can just erase by inspection -- at
>least, that would be the ideal. A very handy ability to have!
There's an old saying: practice makes perfect. That's wrong. Practice
makes
permanent.
Steve Solomon
The Ex-Formidible Grand Dragon
Virtual Dragon Society
/ \ //\
|\___/| / \// .\
/O O \__ / // | \ \
/ / \/_/ // | \ \
@___@' \/_ // | \ \
| \/_ // | \ \
| \/// | \ \
_|_ / ) // | \ _\
'/,_ _ _/ ( ; -. | _ _\.-~ .-~~~^-.
,-{ _ `-.|.-~-. .~ `.
'/\ / ~-. _ .-~ .-~^-. \
`. { } / \ \
.----~-.\ \-' .~ \ `. \^-.
///.----..> c \ _ -~ `. ^-`
^-_
///-._ _ _ _ _ _ _}^ - - - - ~ ~--,
.-~
- [[[note from Ant in 2015: you can see I'm still
receiving these via FidoNet, and FidoNet used exclusively fixed spacing
(I don't know if that's the correct technical term, the point was that
each letter and the spaces between them had a fixed size. Nowadays it is
more normal for the letter 'i', for example, to take up much less space
than the 'm' or the 'w', and also the spacing is sometimes changed to
make the lines end at the same place. Also in those days there were no
pictures, so some people got quite clever making up picture using the
symbols and signs available. The little piece just above this may look
nonsense to you but if you are able to put it into a text editor which
worked only on fixed spaces you would see a dragon!]]]
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Msg : 202 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From : Christine 236/174.10 Thu 03 Aug
95 06:22
To : tro...@netcom.com Fri 04 Aug
95 19:56
Subj : Re: ability exercises
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
Apparently-to: a...@jacome.ping.dk
From: Christine <x...@rain.org>
Subject: Re: ability exercises
At 10:54 AM 8/3/95 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>> There's an old saying: practice makes perfect. That's wrong. Practice makes
>> permanent.
>
>That's wrong too. Practice makes rehabilitated.
>
Okay, I gotta bite. Practice is practice. Now that you've done that,
let's
go do real life.
--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303
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Msg : 205 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From : Lenny or Jevan Gray 236/174.10 Thu 03 Aug
95 09:13
To : tro...@netcom.com Fri 04 Aug
95 19:56
Subj : Re: ability exercises
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
Apparently-to: a...@jacome.ping.dk
From: Lenny or Jevan Gray <lenng...@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: ability exercises
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Christine wrote:
> At 10:54 AM 8/3/95 -0700, you wrote:
> >>
> >> There's an old saying: practice makes perfect. That's wrong. Practice
makes
> >> permanent.
> >
> >That's wrong too. Practice makes rehabilitated.
> >
> Okay, I gotta bite. Practice is practice. Now that you've done that,
> let's go do real life.
Repeated doing _is_ practice. Hopefully we _are_ repeatedly doing "real
life". Practice facilitates _Habit_, which, though it has a down side,
is one of the things I've been trying to identify for the denizens of
these Internet groups as a _virtue_.
Again, the "four virtues", which form an abbreviated version of
something
akin to the "tone chart", are:
A) Confidence
B) Excitement
C) Sensitivity
D) Habit
They're _all_ "good" -- but, when it comes to an either/or situation,
then the higher ones are better.
This last statement of the relationships between such states _also_
holds
true for the _traditional_ "tone chart", though most people erroneously
think of a "low tone" as "Bad". The aspect of "better than nothing" is
generally somehow missed. Low Tone may be "low", but it _is_ "tone".
8)
- Lenny -
--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303
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Msg : 210 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From : Bill Maier 236/174.10 Mon 21 Aug
95 12:04
To : Andreas Mittermayr <mitte...@fmi.uni-passau.de> Tue 22 Aug
95 07:20
Subj : Re: Auditing and RI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
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Apparently-to: a...@jacome.ping.dk
From: ci...@ix.netcom.com (Bill Maier )
Subject: Re: Auditing and RI
You wrote:
>
>Hello,
>
>When doing auditing ( not solo ), for example old Dianetic style, why
do
>the preclears do not go mad due to the lack of RI ? In LRH's
'Dianetics'
>or the L. Kin book II I never read about repair of importance or
>something similar.
I think that Stephen's RI process is really the same as Havingness as
used in Scientology. Whether RI is run or not, I think it would tend
to equalize out in the long run, since simple confront actions like
looking around or dusting the furniture tend to restore havingness.
Not too long ago I ran a session of TROM where I erased some very heavy
incidents, and I neglected to run RI at the end of session. I was very
uncomfortable later on. Although I didn't then have time or the
privacy for a session, I went out and took a walk and just looked
around. That was enough to restore the lack of havingness, at least
for a while. That evening I ran RI and completed the cycle.
Last time we heard from you, I believe you were starting Level 3. How
are things going for you?
Bill
--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303
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Msg : 211 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From : Dimitri Ivakhnenko 236/174.10 Tue 22 Aug
95 09:08
To : tro...@netcom.com Tue 22 Aug
95 20:55
Subj : Re: Auditing and RI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
Apparently-to: a...@jacome.ping.dk
From: Dimitri Ivakhnenko <d...@insight.kiev.ua>
Subject: Re: Auditing and RI
Andreas wrote:
>When doing auditing ( not solo ), for example old Dianetic style, why do
>the preclears do not go mad due to the lack of RI ? In LRH's 'Dianetics'
>or the L. Kin book II I never read about repair of importance or
>something similar.
I like the term 'grounding' from the Flemming Funch's 'Transformational
Paths'. It seems that life has a lot of built-in safety mechanisms. For
example, social mechanisms. People usually set a portion of their time
for talking, collectively drinking tea, watching TV, eating, going for a
trips, etc., thanks to which they stay sane.
There are plenty ways of 'grounding' and 'replenishing resources'.
Personally I may dance along with creating something, take a shower,
take a walk, playing with reality, sleep, or go to the river.
As to the auditing in Hubbard's style, I have run a lot of repetitive
processes and now I can compare it with making music on one big drum and
nothing more. Surely it works but thanks to the safety mechanisms which
protect the ears. With additional instruments, for example RI, music
sounds much better.
And BTW, there were are cases of insanity in CofS, maybe partly due to
the lack of RI-type techniques.
Dimitri
--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303
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Msg : 212 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From : Bill Maier 236/174.10 Tue 22 Aug
95 10:43
To : Andreas Mittermayr <mitte...@fmi.uni-passau.de> Wed 23 Aug
95 07:22
Subj : Re: Auditing and RI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
Apparently-to: a...@jacome.ping.dk
From: ci...@ix.netcom.com (Bill Maier )
Subject: Re: Auditing and RI
You wrote:
>I don't know if TROM is the right thing for me. Level 2 and 3
>are so ... I can't really say... let me try to explain it the other way:
>I think Level 4 and 5 would be ok for me because it has specific commands
>( get the feeling of beeing not known for example). You are guided what to
>do. But Level 2 and 3 are so general. I don't know what scenes to timebreak.
>In one of your last mail to me you said on level 2/3 it is not so important
>what scenes I take to timebreak. Well I can't really describe what the
>problem is, but something keeps me away from making progress with TROM. By
>now I am also uncertain if I really get changes while RI. Perhaps I should
>run a good amount of objective processing before starting with TROM again.
>Perhaps an e-meter would help me to recognize the changes. I don't know.
>Perhaps a co-auditing style would be better for me to start with, but there
>is nobody interested in my area.
>
It is difficult to know what to do when you are entirely on your own.
Sometimes having an auditor is helpful. I started off having rather
good
gains with TROM, but I would even then occasionally run across times
when
things would not go well. A few weeks ago I got really bogged down with
TROM, to the point where every time I would try to do it I would get
very
massy and scattered, unable to focus. So I decided to lay off for a
while,
although I'm sure I will go back to doing it again some day. For right
now
I'm exploring other auditing.
Incidentally, I have found an E-meter to be very useful in solo
auditing,
since it gives me an objective indication of what is happening.
However, I
have not found it very useful in doing TROM. The distraction of trying
to
keep the needle on the dial breaks my concentration enough to where it
becomes difficult to Timebreak. Dennis did say it could be used for
TROM,
though, so it might work for you.
Bill
--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303
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Msg : 213 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From : Dimitri Ivakhnenko 236/174.10 Wed 23 Aug
95 10:45
To : tro...@netcom.com Wed 23 Aug
95 20:29
Subj : Re: Auditing and RI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
Apparently-to: a...@jacome.ping.dk
From: Dimitri Ivakhnenko <d...@insight.kiev.ua>
Subject: Re: Auditing and RI
Andreas wrote:
>>Well I can't really describe what the
>>problem is, but something keeps me away from making progress with TROM. By
>>now I am also uncertain if I really get changes while RI. Perhaps I should
>>run a good amount of objective processing before starting with TROM again.
>>Perhaps an e-meter would help me to recognize the changes. I don't know.
>>Perhaps a co-auditing style would be better for me to start with, but there
>>is nobody interested in my area.
Well, I am in a similar situation. Just now I have no partner. I have
run a lot of objectives, have run TROM without auditor and with auditor,
and have marvellous gains.
But.
The problem is well described in the Flemming's book in the chapter
'Three Bands of Development'. The processes exteriorized me, gave me a
lot of realizations, but they were very slow in solving my problems. So
the gains were difficult to observe, forceful and not very stable.
So what I do now is translating 'Transformational Dialogues' to find
afterwards a partner, first of all to solve problems and get tangible
results. Meanwhile what I do is general activity like visualization,
imagination, etc. mostly simultaneously with some physical activity.
Translating is too an excellent instrument for development. I
successfully used some problems-oriented techniques from 'Trans-Dial',
for example Unblocking, Unburdening, Swish Pattern, but nevertheless
working with a partner will be much more effective.
As to the E-Meter, I yet have no possibility to get a good one, and to
be sincere I don't like it very much. It seems to me that the personal
development must be fun, and I don't find much enjoyment having to watch
the needle and trusting it rather than myself.
I am going to get a lot of skilled potential partners and then I will
resolve any time-tracks, goals packages, astral pimples and cosmic flu
if I will be interested in that. It will be easy to find partners since
I will be able to help them in resolving their actual problems.
Personal development is fun.
Dimitri
--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303
***
Good Tromming
Ant
***
--
Ant Antony A Phillips
i...@post8.tele.dk
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Publisher, International Viewpoints (= IVy). See Home Page:
http://home8.inet.tele.dk/ivy/
Administrator: trom-l, selfclearing-l, superscio-l, IVy lists
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