Dear TruthTalk members:
I want to make it perfectly clear that TruthTalk is NOT a Christian
list. TruthTalk is a list for talking about Truth, and we welcome
people here of all religions as well as those with no religion. We have
only one rule on TruthTalk, and that is that there should be no
David, you are hard hearded. You have refused to listen to me. I have NEVER said I want only Protestant views allowed. I have said, you are no longer standing up for Protestant Bibilical views as you did years ago. A Christian is an odd ball on TT. A Christian is an outcast on TT.
Glenn,
Jesus said he came to fulfil the law in 17, and then in 18 said that nothing will pass from the law until all be fulfilled. My question is, did Jesus fulfil the law? If he did, what does that do to the law under the new covenant? If he did not, then what did he mean when he said he came to
These 7th Day Cultists don't answer questions, they simply abuse Scripture. The Devil quoted Scripture when he tempted Jesus. I REPEAT, THE DEVIL QUOTED SCRIPTURE WHEN HE TEMPTED JESUS. There is a parallel here.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] queried ...
are you both 'children of jesus'? how so? g
The
\o/ !HALALU Yah! \o/
Greetings in the
Matchless NameofYahShua!!
Yehudah ('Judah' /
Judaea) went into Babylonian captivity circa the 7th century B.C. due to their
stiffnecked, rebellious disobedience.
Babylon was highly organized in
their laws and practices (religious and otherwise)
LOL It seems to me to you are telling a falsehood here. I am oddball out here. I stand for savlation by grace and not just by lib service. A Christian is a weirdo on TT.
Im sure we will all miss you, too, Glenn! Izzy
Gal. 5:1. I honestly believe the Bible teaches a person backslides when he goes from salvation by grace through faith to mixing salvation with the law. Gal. 5:4. It is obvious that Christ has become of no effect to 7th Day Adventists and others on TT that take up for the 7th Day cult.
The reason
I am also interested in hearing your answer to the second question I asked:
If he did, what does that do to the law under the new covenant?
Perry
From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
Date:
Hey, Glenn, you are not alone. I, too, understand that salvation comes
through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast (Eph 2:8,9) There
is NOTHING WE CAN DO to save ourselves. It is totally a work of our Lord and
Savior. To God be the glory for his endless mercy and grace.
Perry
From:
Much learning can make a person "mad". David has become better and better at explaining away salvation by grace through faith. Common Sense is greatly lacking in these detailed humanistic explanations.
Surely, Paul (as in Eph. 3:4 and John 20:31 for a quick example) wrote so as to be understood.
Perry wrote:
Hey, Glenn, you are not alone. I, too, understand
that salvation comes through faith, not of works,
lest any man should boast (Eph 2:8,9)
Amen. I believe this too.
Perry wrote:
There is NOTHING WE CAN DO to save ourselves.
It is totally a work of our Lord and Savior.
To
Glenn wrote:
David, you are hard hearded. You have
refused to listen to me.
What have I refused to listen to you about?
Glenn wrote:
you are no longer standing up for Protestant Bibilical
views as you did years ago.
What Protestant Biblical views did I stand up for years ago that I do
WRONG. IT DOES NOT COME FROM INSTANT BELIEVISM. David, you are as blinded when it comes to this as any person I have ever met. You can't see beyond easy believism to ANYTHING. Because of this you are taken in (deceived) by a works salvation.
I think if you are honest with examining where you got
There is no need to show you any Bible. You explain away the Bible with humanistic reasoning. Your mind is made up so why confuse you with the truth? You re blinded because of easy believism. If you try to save yourself, David, you will go straight to hell.
The verse about "save yourself".
Glenn and Perry:
Salvation does come through faith. We all know that. Where
we have a problem is coming to a conclusion about what
is incuded in a description of faith. We know that it has to
include more than simply believing, because as James says,
even the devil believes. We know that
On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 16:18:46 +
"Charles P. Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hey, Glenn, you are not alone.
I, too, understand[..]salvation
what is 'salvation'?
you know we're in the aftermath of a huge
snowstorm here, in Denver..in which i saw numerous examples of 'salvation' (imo)
Terry, there is Biblical saving faith and there is intellectual faith. I believe that George Washington was President of the United States but I am not believing in GW to take me to heaven.
I am not believing in church membership, perfectionism, baptism, Lord's Supper, works, etc., to take me to
Terry wrote:
If Jesus had not fulfilled the law, He could
not have stated IT IS FINISHED!
How much more dows it take?
Are you saying that you believe that every prophecy has already been
fulfilled? Are you saying that the resurrection and eternal judgment
has already taken place?
Saying, It
What you are saying below is a smoke screen to the truth. It doesn't address the point that the law if over. It is much ado about nothing.
Saying, "It is finished" does not mean that everything is finished.
Jesus was talking about his destiny to be the sacrifice for the sins of
the world. That's
Glenn wrote:
I believe that George Washington was President
of the United States but I am not believing in
GW to take me to heaven. ...
I am not believing in church membership,
perfectionism, baptism, Lord's Supper,
works, etc., to take me to heaven.
I haven't heard anyone on TruthTalk
Tremendous post.
David, you are right. I was taught that by preachers. But after I was
taught that, I learned that it was this truth that awakened Martin Luther
and thus was one of the foundational tenets of the reformation. Sola Fide, I
believe it was called.
I subsequently learned that the pivotal verses
Glenn wrote:
I believe that George Washington was President
of the United States but I am not believing in
GW to take me to heaven. ...
I am not believing in church membership,
perfectionism, baptism, Lord's Supper,
works, etc., to take me to heaven.
I haven't heard anyone on TruthTalk
Perry:
For the Jewish folk, Galatians 3:24 (Therefore, the law was our
tutorto bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after faithhas come, we are no longer under a tutor.)
Being a gentile,I was never under the law. (Lev.27:34)
(The law is for the childrenof Israel)
Perry wrote:
David, you are right. I was taught that by
preachers. But after I was taught that, I
learned that it was this truth that awakened
Martin Luther and thus was one of the foundational
tenets of the reformation. Sola Fide, I believe it
was called.
Just because it was one of
Glenn wrote:
But you double talk. If what you say
above is true, then salvation is by grace
through faith, plus nothing, minus nothing.
I see your position as double talk. You say that works follow faith,
but then you balk if someone suggests that someone might not have saving
faith if
Again, David, you act like the Church of Christ. I think you should start attending one. You might like it. The Church of Christ attacks the messenger when they can't refute the message. You have attacked the messenger, and you have not refuted salvation by grace through faith, plus nothing, minus
Are you living in Englewood Colorado??? I used to live at 4184
S. Galapago St. IN Englewood many many years ago.
(I like the way you hide that HTTP address in your
posts.)
-- slade
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL
Glenn said...
What you say above means one cannot save
themselves. I think you know the context of Acts 2:40. If
the Republican Guard in Baghdad wants to save themselves, then they must
separate themselves from Saddam H. That is the context of Acts
2:40.
Uhhh... whatever happened to
You are right. I was trying to give an illustration of the context. The context of Acts 2:40 had to do with the evil civilization around them. Below was what I was trying to illustrate. This verse is not about getting saved from my sins but about get saved from physical destruction in context.
A little forground. The Apostle Paul
entered Jerusalem and a group of BELIEVERS IN MESSIAH WHO ARE ZEALOUS FOR THE
TORAH (LAW) were in Jerusalem at that time. When Paul gets there, the Jerusalem
Council gets together to hear if Paul is really teaching against circumcision
and the Law of
yes/thx, Slade
FTR, For those who need an address for g (Gary Ottoson), go to
http://poet235.com/p235.htm and use this link imbedded at the bottom of the page as/=
'Contact':
http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=get_connected.directorymode=directory_by_name#O
best regards :-)
gary ottoson
The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued
to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming
obedient to the faith.
And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs
among the people.But some men from
Terry, How very true. You are quite astute. Izzy
-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003
3:11 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The
Sabbath Breaker of Numbers
My position is not that one can't worship on Saturday. One can worship EVERY or ANY day.
What is a sin is to require others to Saturday worship (a la 7th Day Adventists) in order to go to heaven.
What is a sin is to abuse Scripture and quote it just like Satan did at the temptation of Christ.
Again, you quote Scripture just like Satan.
The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.
And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and
I am not a 7th day Adventist. I am a Messianic
Jew (for lack of a better term). I never said Shabbat worship is required for
salvation. YOU DID. I never said I believed in works-based salvation. YOU DID.
When you said "My position is not that one can't
worship on Saturday. One can worship
Charles P. Locke wrote:
Hey, Glenn, you are not alone. I, too, understand that salvation comes
through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast (Eph 2:8,9) There
is NOTHING WE CAN DO to save ourselves.
DAVEH: Perry..Does repentance have anything to do with salvation? IOW, can
Dear Slade,
Long before you came on board, I dealt with the same
incoherence. Glen was accusing me of being a judaiser who supports Hitler
before he left. Go figure. Ad
hominemremarks andname calling come from those who lack proof for
their claims. The practice ofplacing words in the
1CO 15:2 By which also ye are
saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have
believed in vain.
- Original Message -
From: "Dave Hansen" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Sabbath Breaker of
Thank you, Brother... and Shalom!
-- slade
Do not hit the REPLY button when responding to this email. Please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] directly. My hotmail
account is used exclusively for out-going email. Thank you.
- Original Message -
From:
Marlin Halverson
To: [EMAIL
David,
Yes, actually it does. When one believes, it entails much more than
just saying I believe. Before one can truly believe one must understand
one's need for salvation, and this is predicated upon one's recognizing that
they are a sinner and an understanding that they must repent from
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